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Thread: Looking for guidance...

  1. #1
    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Looking for guidance...

    Hello all,

    Firstly, nice site. I didn't realise that this existed until about an hour ago. It's kinda funky.

    I hope you don't mind me asking a dumbass question...

    I work as a fairly high level financial and investment advisor in Europe. Mostly, I work in Brussels and Luxembourg helping diplomats and staff at the European institutions and Parliament. I have a lot of down time, it's quite seasonal here and have been looking for another market (politicians are all well and good, but they can get a little boring from time to time - and as for civil servants...)

    A few evenings ago I was chatting to a friend and I asked him for ideas about other markets for me. I'm looking for clients that are relatively high earners, have short-ish careers and so need to be serious about finance and (bluntly) can afford my fees. My friend, suggested lapdancers, strippers and porn stars. I'll be honest, I just laughed.

    However, further thought has me thinking that actually they are almost ideal markets for me and that he isn't as dumb as he looks. I presume that most dancers are like most other normal people and aren't mega savvy about money, but they really need to be. I also presume that since most financial advisers are middle aged family men and most financial advisers wives would cut off bits of their husbands if they took on strippers as clients, the dancing profession is probably lacking in investment advice.

    Am I correct about this?

    If so, are dancers (sorry, not to sure how to term you 'generically') generally looking for guidance? If you are, where do you go for it? Do you pay for it? Are other girls looking for help with this?

    Where would I advertise to find such charming clients?

    As I said, sorry to ask dumbass questions and hope that you'll do my market research for me. Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Since I'm not American, I know that I couldn't help US clients, other than with budgeting and planning advice online, but I would imagine that I can help clients from virtually every European nation with a full financial / investment planning service.

    Thanks in advance for your comments / thoughts in advance.

    Best wishes,

    Stuart

  2. #2
    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    I would say yes, we are looking for guidance. Yes, we all know we should be saving, but after that it's kind of a mystery.

    But here is your likely problem....finding your base clients. You really have to have made a name for yourself and have them come to you based on your reputation. They aren't going to take you seriously in a strip club.

    And yes, you can call us dancers....better than "lapdancers"
    Last edited by Emily; 02-17-2006 at 09:43 AM.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    I would contact the bigger, upscale clubs around you and see if they'll put your brochures in the dressing room (brochures should emphasize that you specialize in people with short term, high earning careers), and maybe offer a teaser seminar at one of the clubs.



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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Hmmm. Interesting. My friend really isn't so dumb after all. Who'd imagine it???

    I hadn't planned to go get clients in a strip club, that was for sure! To be fair, I have made a good name and reputation for myself, but that's in the European Parliament ... and I'm guessing there aren't many dancers in there - ok, I know there aren't.

    Would you think that advertising on sites like this would be worthwhile? If so, are there other sites I should, err, look at (in a non-pervy way, of course) too? Or maybe contacting club owners / managers (who I presume would expect a 'referral' fee from me) would be a better way to go?

    Since I'm asking that question, I always have presumed that clubs are all owned by mafia / serb and kosovan gangster types. Is that true?

    If you are looking for real easy places to start, may I recommend this link?

    http://www.stockexchangesecrets.com/...beginners.html

    It's one of my own sites and I have written a number of articles for 'beginner investors', a few of which are on here.

    Thanks again for your time.

    Best wishes,

    Stuart

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    No, it's definitely an opportunity for you. I'm sure there are people like you that help musicians and pro-athletes....so why not us?

    also, keep in mind that the dancers on Stripperweb are much more business savvy than your typical dancer.

    Using the internet isn't really going to get you far. I still can't believe how many dancers aren't on-line, but that's another topic.

    Sorry I can't be of more help. I really have no idea how to reach dancers since club owners are generally not much help either.

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    Featured Member lunchbox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Get nice explanatory business cards, got to the clubs. Don't carpet bomb the club, just give it out to a few of the girls who appear to be doing the most dances (not just the most occupied) with a tip or payment for services rendered.

  7. #7
    God/dess anomar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Talk to the women directly. A lot of times the club owners might not have their best interests in mind (not necessarily as nefarious as it sounds -- they just might be very inefficient). Target the high earners.

    Read these boards more thoroughly to get a good picture of the kinds of investments women make into their dancing careers -- for instance, some women have to pay up to several hundred dollars in a single night just to have the opportunity to work in a club. Figure out the kinds of priorities women might have (this is also to be gleaned from talking directly to them), and also the kinds of investments you'd recommend to them. Try to have regular stops at a club -- go to club x every other Thursday, for instance, so that women can warm up to you as you build the client base.

  8. #8
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    I'll be tactlessly blunt in response to your question ...

    In regard to exotic dancers in general in North America, I'll start with the 'bad news'. There are really only 20% of dancers who have sufficient earnings potential and accumulated assets to become serious investors on the scale you are talking about. Obviously, to justify the 'overhead' involved in management fees etc. you'll be looking for girls that have $10,000+ at their disposal for investment purposes. As much as we hate to admit it, a fair percentage of North American dancers are either not able to work in a club with major earnings potential, or do not have enough self-discipline and foresight to save and/or invest a portion of their earnings, or already have put themselves into debt to a level where all of their earnings are committed to keeping their head above water re creditors, or have developed certain 'habits' that consume a large portion of their earnings, or some combination of the above.

    Now for the good news. Of the 20% or so of North American dancers who are serious about dancing as well as about managing their finances, a disproportionately high share of them can be found right here at StripperWeb. Also good news from your perspective is that the dancers with the kind of high earnings potential you are targeting actually work at a comparatively small handful of clubs in a comparatively small number of big cities. Thus you could probably reach 50% of your potential group of likely 'target' dancers directly with a whirlwind trip to certain clubs in Manhattan, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, Vegas, Miami etc.

    Now for more bad news. Due to the nature of the North American exotic dancing business, particularly where club management and money are concerned and where club customers and money are concerned, dancers have developed a large degree of 'mistrust' toward anyone making 'promises' about dancers' money ... every dancer has been ripped off by club management, by club customers, by boyfriends, by fellow dancers etc. at one time or another. Thus it would be necessary for you to do much more than simply announce your credentials and your services. You would need to 'earn' the trust of a few dancers in a few key markets, who could then 'vouch' for your reliability to other dancers.

    In regard to the 'offering' that you would bring to the table, IMHO one of the largest problems for North American dancers who are in a position to invest is the 'bias' most established financial advisors/services have towards US/CDN market based US$/CDN$ denominated investment vehicles. Your experience and connections with European markets and investment vehicles would be particularly valuable if (actually IMHO when) the US budget deficit and inflation rate start tanking the US dollar exchange rate.

    I'll also offer a 'talking out of school' comment. In past years, the tax collection and tax enforcement procedures in effect regarding the predominantly 'cash' earnings of exotic dancers has not only allowed a few girls to be 'forgetful' about reporting their actual incomes, but has also served as a strong disincentive to their creating a 'paper trail' showing large amounts of money flowing into savings/investment accounts without a corresponding entry on an income tax return ! However, as many of the highest earning dancers at a particular club are likely to find out the hard way (see thread on Scores Tax Evasion Bust in the Clubs section), the govt's tax collection and enforcement procedures have improved enormously over the past couple of years. As such, even though many dancers may not yet have realized it, tax planning/management as part of an investment strategy is going to become an EXTREMELY important issue to high earnings potential dancers in the very near future (and particularly those who live in very high tax rate locations like NY City, Chicago, and the West Coast).
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-17-2006 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #9
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Im one of those I KNOW I SHOULD be saving but am not.

    Bankruptcy recently discharged. Got my first secured CC to rebuild credit. Now Im fully out of debt. Im looking to buy a house, save for daughters college, save for retirement, invest.

    Went to my bank and they really had no advice other than CDs...

    I was recently wondering where I would find a competent financial advisor. Dont want to just find someone in the yellow pages and when I mention saving at work I get these blank stares... lol... so no help from other dancers....

    Too bad youre in Europe and not the US! Its a really hard market because not a lot of dancers even *think* about the future and retirement and Itd be really hard to get them out of the pattern of blowing money. They have to *want* to change and save, otherwise its a lose cause...

  10. #10
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Stuart,
    I, for one, would be very careful with a fiancial advisor who is not evn on the same continent. I am not dismissing your qualifications, or the potential soundness of your advice, but it is kind of like giving your money to a guy who put an ad in the yellow pages(Business phone book). Your biggest obstacle to success is you are a total unknown entity and could be a teenager with an email address and $25 to print a brochure.

    I may be a total sceptic, but I would stick closer to home looking for clients.

  11. #11
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    While Monty and I often agree to disagree on particular financial issues, we're in total agreement that, from the standpoint of healthy skepticism, all that you have provided so far are unsubstantiable claims regarding your supposed real identity and lofty credentials. Our intent is not to 'slam' you undeservedly, but only to provide an example of the mindset you're likely to encounter in your effort to seek investors in the North American dancing community.

    I actually disagree with Monty though on the potential value of someone providing North American dancers (and other investors potentially) with an avenue to 'convert' their US$ earnings/investments into Euro denominated savings/investments. This is based on the observation that fundamental global forces are slowly stacking up against the US$, and the US gov't is slowly losing its ability to effectively defend the dollar's exchange rate ... i.e. it took a middle eastern invasion at a cost of $100 billion or so just for them to 'break even'. Once the US$ starts to slump, and the concept starts to sink in that a nominal 5% Euro denominated bond actually pays 15% in overall after tax after exchange US$ terms, whereas a high risk 10% US$ denominated dividend stock actually pays close to zero, if a convenient means could be found to channel US$ investment money into the European markets you could potentially have many interested North American investors.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Wow! Thanks for all the comments.

    I have to admit that having found this site, I wasn't aware that such a high percentage of users would be American. As with everything online, you never really know if users are in Timbuktu or just around the corner. I was really just looking for some general guidance, which you have certainly offered. And you are of course right, initially at least, I doubt I'd take advice from someone on the other side of the world.

    The reality is that I couldn't offer advice to US clients. The legal system (as I can tell) is a nightmare for client and adviser so I won't be getting involved. My best friend is actually from Boston, and I refuse to help him!! So I'd have to steer clear of other US clients (if only)to stop him from hurting me.

    As for Melonie, I'd listen to her, ladies. Though in reality I know a number of financial advisers that couldn't make the financial suggestions that she has, and her thoughts are probably too advanced for most average people, her assessment of US related investments looks right on. If anything, she's being too kind on the US$ with her opinion. The factors stacking up against the US$ are massive (massive twin deficits, Iranian Oil Bourse threatening the petrodollar, residential housing bubble, consumer debts, oil spike, M3 increases very likely, etc) and if I didn't know any better, I'd swear the US economy has hyperinflation on the long term horizon.

    How about I make an offer?

    I earn my living face to face with clients, but I have been doing increasing amounts of work online. I have written several websites (about finance) and a couple of ebooks. Thus far, I give all this away for free online. I haven't really figured out how to monetise it yet, and I have found that by giving so much away for free really makes me stand out to my clients - so it certainly helps me to earn, just not online.

    For example, I have a site about stock exchange investments, 2 sites about debts, a debt related ebook of about 10 pages, a 70 page financial planning ebook to subscribers to my free newsletter and a free monthly email newsletter. That stuff is all free to the reader ( I really try to offer value).

    So since I write a lot, how about I write a few basic / overview articles about personal money management that you can lock in these forums. I'll add at the bottom of the articles links to the freebie stuff I have produced that will offer more in depth suggestions.

    General financial planning principles are the same from one person to the next. The changes come in the form of different tax rules for different nations / situations and the slight modifications in financial products required to meet these tax rules. So I could offer suggestions about, say, debt management, and the advice would be good for 90%+ of people on earth - you'd just need to investigate potential specific taxation issues for your own situation - which you'd need to do anyway. Even a US adviser would point you towards an accountant for that.

    It'll be easy to do (from my perspective) since I have so much material already written. I'd just tweak a few of the articles for your use. From your perspective, no real downside since it'll all be free.

    Let me know what you think.

    Cordially,

    Stuart

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    ... we'd be eternally grateful !

  14. #14
    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Sure. No probs. What I'll do, if it's ok is half a dozen or so: budgeting, debts, basic investment and investing for the future. That kind of stuff. I'll think on it.

    Presuming that you are happy with this, I'll also need to put up some sort of basic disclaimer on the thread (obviously).

    Dependent upon how you organise such things, can it all just go onto one thread? Then each of my posts / articles gets added below as I write them. Would it be ok if once I submit the first thread, you lock it and from then onwards I just email the next one to someone? I want to keep this easy for me too - I don't really have much interest in learning how to do that stuff - sorry!

    Let me know how you'd like this to work and I'll make my first submission soon.

    Best wishes,

    Stuart

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    I really like those articles about how to envision yourself at retirement age...what you want and what it will take to get there (and how it's not as difficult as it sounds).

    I think without knowing where you want to be, it's impossible to know how to get there.

  16. #16
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Stuart, if you start such a new thread I can make it 'sticky' at the top of the page, as well as lock it against additional posts. Go ahead and start posting, and if any other posters make a 'mess' of things (which is rather unlikely) I can always selectively delete posts.

    be aware though that there is a maximum text size limit for individual posts, so if you hit the limit just split the text and keep going under an additional post.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for guidance...

    Hi Melonie,
    I have added another about budgeting and savings targets. Can you add it to the previous one for me please?
    Thanks in advance.
    Kind regards,
    Stuart

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