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Thread: if you're looking for good economic news ...

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    Default if you're looking for good economic news ...

    ... lots of experts are now saying that you're looking in the wrong place in America !

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Well this is what happen when you have a idiot running the country for so long!
    If you want the present to be differant from the past, study the past.
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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Ugh...I think I'm going to be sick.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    This puts me in mind of Monty's Rule for Happiness in Life.
    "Optimists are almost always disappointed, Pessimists are almost always disappointed, but cynics are rarely disappointed--they know things will go wrong, or not be pleasant, but most of the time things manage to work themselves out in a way they can live with."

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    and Melonie's Rule of Financial Happiness ... optimists see a half-full cup, pessimists see a half-empty cup, but for aggressive investors there is always somewhere that 'the cup is getting even fuller' ! Unfortunately for some, that particular cup which is getting even fuller is often doing so at the expense of draining someone else's cup. But for my own part, I'm going to do what's necessary to see that my own cup gets fuller and fuller !


    Well this is what happen when you have a idiot running the country for so long!
    are you referring to Alan Greenspan ?

    Actually, the forces of fundamental economic change take decades to manifest themselves. If you're looking for 'root causes' of America's present trade imbalance, outsourcing problem, and gov't budget deficits, you need to go back to at least the 60's and 70's ... the 'great society' programs, EPA and OSHA, the 'asbestos' lawsuits, the birth of the 'sales tax', cutting loose the last link to a gold/silver standard for the US$ etc.

    Here's a 'view from the outside' as to how the US and global economies really work today ...
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-28-2006 at 04:48 AM.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    and if you're looking for a particular 'straw to break the camel's back' ...

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Nah Mel, it ain't gonna happen! (Put's head back into sand)

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    which idiot are we talking about?


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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    and if you're looking for a particular 'straw to break the camel's back' ...

    http://business.telegraph.co.uk/mone...menuId=242&sSh
    You sure do post a lot of "doom and gloom" stories. None of them are worth a sh*t.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by leilanicandy
    Well this is what happen when you have a idiot running the country for so long!
    Would that be the idiot heading the country with a 4.8% unemployment rate?

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Actually, the official unemployment rate fell to 4.7% as of yesterday's news report. However, there is a big question as to which people actually get counted in that unemployment statistic and which people don't, but there are already other threads on that subject.

    In regard to the economic 'doom and gloom' postings, historically speaking the times which are most likely to be followed by a 'crash' are those times when the stock markets, dollar liquidity, real estate values etc. have been rising for an extended period to the point where lots of 'joe sixpacks' start to invest their life savings in these highly touted investments so they don't 'miss the boat'. Unfortunately, historically speaking these are also the times that the 'smart money' begins to cash out while prices are at their peak, leaving 'joe sixpack' to take the coming losses.

    Nobody (OK well maybe Ben Bernakke) knows what the US economy is going to look like for sure 3 months from now or 3 years from now. The point of posting financial news bits here at DD which run contrary to the news bits the 'talking heads' on cable financial news are reporting is simply to make people think about the possibility that tomorrow's economy and hot investment sectors may change significantly.

    Dancers work too hard for their money, and their peak earnings years are too short, for them to ride out the cyclical ups and downs the way most people with mainstream 'careers' can. Dancers really can't afford to take the chance of investing their hard earned money in the wrong places at the 'peak' of an economic cycle and take major losses as that cycle turns downward, because by the time the cycle bottoms and turns upward again that dancer may be 40 years old instead of 25. With a mainstream 'career' having 15 years of extra experience usually translates into increased earnings potential, but with dancing the very opposite is usually the case (assuming a girl can still physically handle the rigors of dancing at age 40+). As a result, from an investing standpoint, dancers in their 20's and 30's need to make investment decisions like mainstream 'career' people in their 50's and 60's - which means taking a somewhat defensive position against potential losses if the economy takes a dump.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    Nobody (OK well maybe Ben Bernakke) knows what the US economy is going to look like for sure 3 months from now or 3 years from now.
    One of my professors back in college was a senior economist at the Fed. He said the Fed can't even make accurate projections beyond a month or two. So it always cracks me up when other people try to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    The point of posting financial news bits here at DD which run contrary to the news bits the 'talking heads' on cable financial news are reporting is simply to make people think about the possibility that tomorrow's economy and hot investment sectors may change significantly.
    Contrary points are good. Misinformation isn't. I heard recent polls indicating that most Americans have an incorrect view of the current state of the economy; they think it's bad. After re-reading that link you provided, I can see why.

    As far as the stuff you said about dancers not being able to afford to invest their money in the wrong places because of short careers, I can't really say that the link provided in the original post is going to be of any benefit in any way other than making the wrong decisions. When in doubt, the best thing to do is invest your money in the S&P 500 index fund and forget it. Providing "contrary" views, (doom and gloom stories) is more likely to confuse the layperson than help. There is way too much noise and misinformation out there already.

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    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    ok now I'm depressed - I usually prefer to bury my head in the sand about these things too. I hate watching the news because it's always BAD news, and often set askew and sensationalized just so TV stations get good ratings.
    I just try to live my life the way I should and spend my money on the things I need and enjoy. I know it's not the best way always, but that's all I know how to do. I'm happy to not be homeless.

    As a result, I'll probably never own a house, have a retirement fund or even have health insurance until I reach some sort of senior position in a tattoo shop. I know I'll never have enough money to do anything important as a stripper in LA, but regardless, I appreciate your desire to inform us, Melonie.
    Just don't be hurt if I stop reading your financial posts because I feel like slitting my wrists when I do. LOL


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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    The American people are beginning to wise up on the economy. Yes unemployment may be down. But most of the jobs created are service sector jobs. Examples of service sector employment is Wal-Mart and Mc Donalds. These jobs can’t possibly support a family in the “middle class” lifestyle. When Wall Street and the government use the term “middle class” it is code for “poor class.”

    With defined benefit pensions being cut back to government guaranteed amounts (about no more than $40,000/yr max), with no law requiring corporate health insurance to continue for retirees so that it is cancelled, with a crazy medicare drug benefit that old people can’t understand, and 401k’s (defined contribution) funds value beind depleted or going to zero due to corrupt corporations (Think Enron and WorldCom/MCI), the American people are very concerned about the economy. They mean their economic security not how many low paid wage jobs are available.

    Many “good Jobs” are in danger if you think of Dana auto supply and Delphi (the old GM “Delco”). GM and Ford jobs are in jeopardy. In fact almost every American company in manufacturing jobs is a little shaky right now and the American people feel it.

    Since the polls don’t ask the right questions, the only way they can respond on their anxiety is to respond that they are worried about the economy. They are really worried about their families and retirement and economic future, the disappearing health and drug insurance, and their disappearing pension, 401k balances.

    Add gasoline prices which are predicted to hit $80 per barrel which is about $3.00 per gal
    This May and you bet they are WORRIED.

    When the wife and kids are sick, they can’t afford to see a doctor, or can’t afford to buy the medicine they will become PISSED.

    When their pension plan is terminated they will become ANGRY.

    When they lose their jobs to immigrants they will become FURIOUS.

    ARE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY BETTER OFF NOW THEN YOU WERE SIX YEARS AGO?

    That about sums up the problem.

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    Default If you are looking for news, don't visit websited that belong to crackpots

    I skimmed the article, even though I don't really care what some crackpots with a website think, and if you think I'm putting my head in the sand, keep drinking Mels kool-aid.

    Mel, where do you find this crap?

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Add gasoline prices which are predicted to hit $80 per barrel which is about $3.00 per gal
    This May and you bet they are WORRIED.

    When the wife and kids are sick, they can’t afford to see a doctor, or can’t afford to buy the medicine they will become PISSED.

    When their pension plan is terminated they will become ANGRY.

    When they lose their jobs to immigrants they will become FURIOUS.
    Ah yes but now add the result when, after having lost their $35 an hour union manufacturing job and replaced it with an $18 an hour 'competitive' job, they then get to deal with the following ...

    vastly increased medicaid spending to provide benefits for legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers causes their local sales tax rate to rise by 2%

    vastly increased subsidized housing / utility spending to provide benefits for legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers causes the state income tax rate on their $18 an hour paycheck to rise by 2%+

    vastly increased numbers of legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers become eligible to collect an Earned Income Tax Credit (basically getting more money back from the IRS than was withheld from their paychecks in the first place) causes the federal income tax rate on their $18 an hour paycheck to rise by 2%+

    of course no politician in his right mind is going to vote for such direct tax increases. However, by devaluing the US dollar, thus causing all prices and incomes to rise, the tax increases will occur automatically due to 'bracket creep'.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    Ah yes but now add the result when, after having lost their $35 an hour union manufacturing job and replaced it with an $18 an hour 'competitive' job, they then get to deal with the following ...
    I thought you were against these union jobs, I can dig up some threads with your other comments regarding them if you like. So, which is it?

    vastly increased medicaid spending to provide benefits for legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers causes their local sales tax rate to rise by 2%
    If anti-immigration people are going to claim that the illegals are already using the system, they cannot turn around and say it's going to be more expensive if they become legal, because it's the same people that would have been using it before, right?

    Don't forget, sales tax is a poor tax, a greater percentage of a poor persons income goes towards paying it, immigrants far more than an $18/hr person.

    vastly increased subsidized housing / utility spending to provide benefits for legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers causes the state income tax rate on their $18 an hour paycheck to rise by 2%+

    vastly increased numbers of legalized former illegal alien minimum wage workers become eligible to collect an Earned Income Tax Credit (basically getting more money back from the IRS than was withheld from their paychecks in the first place) causes the federal income tax rate on their $18 an hour paycheck to rise by 2%+
    I'm having trouble understanding how these two statements aren't conflicting with one another. So you think they are gonna get all those services and still qualify? amusing.
    of course no politician in his right mind is going to vote for such direct tax increases. However, by devaluing the US dollar, thus causing all prices and incomes to rise, the tax increases will occur automatically due to 'bracket creep'.
    Any increase would come wearing a mask of reform.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    I thought you were against these union jobs, I can dig up some threads with your other comments regarding them if you like. So, which is it?
    Yes I'm against 'overpaid' union jobs, because in effect the additional labor and benefit cost adds a 'hidden tax' to the price of every product they make which must be paid in equal dollar amount by whomever buys the product (regardless of customer income level). However, I'll be the first to admit however that 'overpaid' union workers also 'overpay' on taxes, such that the loss of those $35 an hour jobs means a huge loss in tax revenue for fed, state and local gov'ts.

    If anti-immigration people are going to claim that the illegals are already using the system, they cannot turn around and say it's going to be more expensive if they become legal, because it's the same people that would have been using it before, right?
    perhaps true for the cost of 'walk-in' medical benefits and for social welfare benefits in states where judges have ruled that gov't benefits cannot be denied on the basis of citizenship (how those sort of rulings ever happened is beyond my comprehension - be that as it may) ...

    however, in most states illegal aliens do not file a tax return, therefore they do not receive an Earned Income Tax Credit 'handout'. When they start filing, the current $40 billion annual cost is estimated to escalate to $200-$300 billion.

    Presently illegal aliens usually do not file for full blown subsidized housing / subsidized utilities / WIC / welfare benefits because most state agencies will cross-check as part of their 'welfare fraud' investigation procedure. When they start, costs to state/local govt's will escalate big time.

    I'm having trouble understanding how these two statements aren't conflicting with one another. So you think they are gonna get all those services and still qualify? amusing.
    well, if currently illegal aliens become legal citizens, then the gov't has two choices. It can either extend the same eligibility criteria for the entire blue plate special of social welfare programs to newly legalized minimum wage workers (or out of work) as it has established for previously legal citizens earning minimum wage (or out of work), or the gov't must change the eligibility standards for ALL low income legal American residents. This would apply equally for the criteria establishing both Earned Income Tax Credit eligibility and social welfare benefit program eligibility. From a sane financial standpoint, only the latter is possible. However, nobody says that politicians are sane about their spending decisions - particularly in an election year.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexxaHex
    ok now I'm depressed - I usually prefer to bury my head in the sand about these things too. I hate watching the news because it's always BAD news, and often set askew and sensationalized just so TV stations get good ratings.
    You hit the nail on the head. The media does like to spin the news to the negative. Back in late 2002 and early 2003 I made a bundle trading because I realized that public sentiment was down because of the constant barrage of negativity in the media.

    Things are going good now and should for at least the next 2 - 3 years. So enjoy the prosperity until the next downturn. (Which if a Democrat gets elected will be in Nov. 2008.)

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    The American people are beginning to wise up on the economy. Yes unemployment may be down. But most of the jobs created are service sector jobs. Examples of service sector employment is Wal-Mart and Mc Donalds. These jobs can’t possibly support a family in the “middle class” lifestyle. When Wall Street and the government use the term “middle class” it is code for “poor class.”
    You couldn't be more wrong. While service sector jobs can be low-paying, many are high paying like accountants, investment advisors, lawyers, etc. The manufacturing sector has lagged the other sectors, but it is adding jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    With defined benefit pensions being cut back to government guaranteed amounts (about no more than $40,000/yr max), with no law requiring corporate health insurance to continue for retirees so that it is cancelled, with a crazy medicare drug benefit that old people can’t understand, and 401k’s (defined contribution) funds value beind depleted or going to zero due to corrupt corporations (Think Enron and WorldCom/MCI), the American people are very concerned about the economy. They mean their economic security not how many low paid wage jobs are available.
    You've been brainwashed. First off, defined benefit pension plans are extremely bad for no other reason than you cannot accurately forecast the future 30 years out. Hell, you can't even guarantee that a company will still exist to pay those pensions, let alone put away enough to meet that defined benefit amount.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    Many “good Jobs” are in danger if you think of Dana auto supply and Delphi (the old GM “Delco”). GM and Ford jobs are in jeopardy. In fact almost every American company in manufacturing jobs is a little shaky right now and the American people feel it.
    No. Unionized industries are in trouble. Steel, airlines, and auto--all heavily unionized. Unions like to grab as much of the profitability for themselves, which they don't deserve, instead of putting their own money at risk by buying the company stock in the marketplace. The entire economy is not in trouble--just the unionized sector. And anyone who knows anything about anything can tell you that this was predictable and completely unavoidable.

    Auto assembly line workers doing simple, repetitive tasks do NOT deserve wages of $29 per hour, plus insurance, plus pension. That is a major problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    Since the polls don’t ask the right questions, the only way they can respond on their anxiety is to respond that they are worried about the economy. They are really worried about their families and retirement and economic future, the disappearing health and drug insurance, and their disappearing pension, 401k balances.
    Nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    Add gasoline prices which are predicted to hit $80 per barrel which is about $3.00 per gal
    This May and you bet they are WORRIED.
    People are concerned about gasoline prices, sure. And they were concerned when prices when from $1 to $1.25. And concerned when prices went to $1.50, and so on and so on. Gasoline prices have had only a small impact on the overall growth of the economy. Besides, I'm sure many Americans could conserve if they felt the need. My driving is down 30% over the past year because of the high prices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy
    ARE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY BETTER OFF NOW THEN YOU WERE SIX YEARS AGO?
    YES WE ARE!!!

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    Yes I'm against 'overpaid' union jobs
    fin. You can't have your cake and eat it by rationalizing the other side.
    perhaps true for the cost of 'walk-in' medical benefits and for social welfare benefits in states where judges have ruled that gov't benefits cannot be denied on the basis of citizenship (how those sort of rulings ever happened is beyond my comprehension - be that as it may) ...
    Not that the rulings ever seem to matter. Care is still given regardless, if an illegal died because they was denied healthcare, that would get national press coverage.

    Weren't you a nurse (specialist, whatever), would you really watch someone die of something and not even try and help? If not from your heart, than from the fear of a wrongful death suit?
    however, in most states illegal aliens do not file a tax return, therefore they do not receive an Earned Income Tax Credit 'handout'. When they start filing, the current $40 billion annual cost is estimated to escalate to $200-$300 billion.
    I think people grossly over estimate how many illegals are getting payed under the table, and under estimate the number of illegals working 'legal enough' that get paid via a W2 and a paycheck. You could gain serious credibilty if you can name what changed that has made this more and more common.

    I'm researching the EITC. I don't see how you can predict such an increase in the EITC, that would mean of the 10-11 million people assumed illegal, they would all have to qualify and get the average to fall inside that range. If you still think that is feasible let me know.
    Presently illegal aliens usually do not file for full blown subsidized housing / subsidized utilities / WIC / welfare benefits because most state agencies will cross-check as part of their 'welfare fraud' investigation procedure. When they start, costs to state/local govt's will escalate big time.

    well, if currently illegal aliens become legal citizens, then the gov't has two choices. It can either extend the same eligibility criteria for the entire blue plate special of social welfare programs to newly legalized minimum wage workers (or out of work) as it has established for previously legal citizens earning minimum wage (or out of work), or the gov't must change the eligibility standards for ALL low income legal American residents. This would apply equally for the criteria establishing both Earned Income Tax Credit eligibility and social welfare benefit program eligibility. From a sane financial standpoint, only the latter is possible. However, nobody says that politicians are sane about their spending decisions - particularly in an election year.
    There's another statement that comes out of both sides of anti-immigrants mouths. They are stealling our services because they shouldn't be here, if legalized they will tremendously increase the expense of services....

    I'd like to see you back some comments up, with something other than opinion and crappy websites that try to predict the future economic status of the country in 2006+ using things such as misquotes of Greenspan from 1998, and misrepresenting the sentiments of prominent economists by paraphrasing select parts of situations they present while omitting their conlcusions.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    your TigerLilly-esque question is of course impossible to answer because the 'what if' statistics are deeply buried among financial stats of bankrupt hospital emergency rooms, the non-itemized budget deficits of state and local govt's, various polls and estimates in regard to the actual number of illegal workers etc. Plus the IRS / Homeland security has only released data on 8 million W2 social security numbers that it has been unable to match up with valid SSI records (safe assumption is 8 million unfiled tax returns to go along with those non-matching SSI #'s), but not the number who actually filed tax returns or the amount of EITC paid out on those tax returns, or the number that would have to start filing (and start collecting EITC payouts in excess of their total tax withholding) if they became legal citizens. Thus any of those currently illegal workers who are currently getting paid via W2 paychecks, and who are currently forfeiting their tax withholding plus SSI withholding, will suddenly be asking for tax refunds plus EITC plus SSI benefits if/when they become legalized.

    Thus in order to accurately answer your question it would be necessary to first legalize illegal aliens, see how much in additional social welfare benefits and tax credits they actually consume, then see how much larger gov't budget deficits grow, and then break out the deficit spending line items -
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-11-2006 at 08:59 AM.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    your TigerLilly-esque question is of course impossible to answer because the 'what if' statistics are deeply buried among financial stats of bankrupt hospital emergency rooms, the non-itemized budget deficits of state and local govt's, various polls and estimates in regard to the actual number of illegal workers etc.
    I'm not sure I understand the tigerlilly-esque remark, I think she was caught being 21 different people and arguing with herself before I joined this site, and that is all I know about her. What I basically gather is: you don't want to admit that you've never heard of someone being refused treatment because they were an illegal immigrant, and you are going to cover up your 'no' with words and bureaucracy.

    Plus the IRS / Homeland security has only released data on 8 million W2 social security numbers that it has been unable to match up with valid SSI records (safe assumption is 8 million unfiled tax returns to go along with those non-matching SSI #'s), but not the number who actually filed tax returns or the amount of EITC paid out on those tax returns, or the number that would have to start filing (and start collecting EITC payouts in excess of their total tax withholding) if they became legal citizens. Thus any of those currently illegal workers who are currently getting paid via W2 paychecks, and who are currently forfeiting their tax withholding plus SSI withholding, will suddenly be asking for tax refunds plus EITC plus SSI benefits if/when they become legalized.
    Why do you presume they make minimum wage and live on government assistance?
    Thus in order to accurately answer your question it would be necessary to first legalize illegal aliens, see how much in additional social welfare benefits and tax credits they actually consume, then see how much larger gov't budget deficits grow, and then break out the deficit spending line items -
    Hilarious, so you can make up theories, but if I question them, how could you possibly answer...

    PS - I'm not sure which questions we were talking about.

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    Default Re: if you're looking for good economic news ...

    you don't want to admit that you've never heard of someone being refused treatment because they were an illegal immigrant,
    at risk of degenerating away from the point, lots of illegal aliens have been refused treatment after the fact (along with US citizens living in the same areas) due to the bankruptcy and closure of nearby emergency rooms

    (snip)""We have a terrible, absolutely vicious, law called EMTALA: the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which is really the culprit that requires every emergency room, and every physician of an emergency room, to treat illegal aliens for free," she said.

    Cosman said 84 hospitals in California have been forced to close because of the high cost of treating illegal aliens with only 50 percent of all treatments reimbursed by government.

    "Even physicians in those emergency rooms don't fully get the point that by being compassionate, and generous, and gracious, they are, in essence, destroying their own livelihoods as well as their own hospitals," she said.

    While politicians often mention there are 43 million without health insurance in this country, Cosman's report estimates that at least 25 percent of those are illegal immigrants. The figure could be as high as 50 percent.

    Not being insured does not mean they don't get medical care.

    Among the organizations directing illegal aliens into America's medical systems, according to the report, are the Ford Foundation-funded Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, the National Immigration Law Center, the American Immigration Lawyers Association, the American Bar Association's Commission on Immigration Policy, Practice, and Pro Bono, the Immigrant Legal Resource Center, the National Council of La Raza, George Soros' Open Society Institute, the Migration Policy Institute, the National Network for Immigration and Refugee Rights and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Because drug addiction and alcoholism are classified as diseases and disabilities, the fiscal toll on the health-care system rises. "(snip) from

    (snip)"Drug addiction and alcoholism are classified as diseases and disabilities. Disability CodeDA&Ahad in 1983 only 3,000 stipend recipients, but in 1994 exploded to 101,000. In 2003, between 250,000 and 400,000 got lump-sum grants of disability money via SSI. When Linda Torres was arrested in Bakersfield, California, with about $8,500 in small bills in a sack, the police originally thought it was stolen money. It was her SSI lump sum award for her disability: heroin addiction.

    Immigrants on SSI, including legal aliens, refugees, and illegals with fraudulent Social Security cards, numbered a mere 127,900 aliens (3.3 percent of recipients) in 1982. By 1992 the numbers expanded to 601,430 entitled (10.9 percent of recipients). In 2003, this figure was several million (about 25 percent of recipients).
    The National Immigration Law Center (NILC) proudly announced that it garnered for immigrants expensive cancer treatments, prenatal care, and critical health services by means of its litigation. Sometimes NILC worked in collaboration with lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund. Though the 1996 Welfare Reform Legislation reduced all welfare payments to all recipients nationwide, NILC cleverly managed to restore to its constituency of legal and illegal immigrants: $12 billion in Supplemental Security Income, and more than $800 million in food stamps. For many illegal aliens, America is land of the victim and home of the entitled."(snip) same author, from

    Why do you presume they make minimum wage and live on government assistance
    Well, if they are legalized, the law will require that the minimum wage level must be paid. Also, if they are legalized and being paid minimum wage, they will be eligible for all sorts of public assistance programs in addition to the Earned Income Tax Credit subsidy. Granted that some percentage of the estimated 11 million illegal aliens have professional skills and/or higher education such that they can land jobs paying much more than minimum wage. It's also possible that some will choose not to apply for social welfare benefits they would become eligible for on general principles. So that perhaps leaves only 9 million new social welfare benefit recipients ?

    Hilarious, so you can make up theories, but if I question them, how could you possibly answer.
    as with all theories, absolute proof comes months or years after those theories are actually put to a practical test. In this case the stakes are very high, though, because there would be no way to 'rescind' the legalization once the negative financial effects were actually documented. However, there is a good bit of 'anecdotal' financial information out there ...

    "Cristobal Silverio emigrated illegally from Mexico to Stockton, Calif., in 1997 to work as a fruit picker.

    He brought with him his wife, Felipa, and three children, 19, 12 and 8 – all illegals. When Felipa gave birth to her fourth child, daughter Flor, the family had what is referred to as an "anchor baby" – an American citizen by birth who provided the entire Silverio clan a ticket to remain in the U.S. permanently.

    But Flor was born premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator and cost the San Joaquin Hospital more than $300,000. Meanwhile, oldest daughter Lourdes married an illegal alien gave birth to a daughter, too. Her name is Esmeralda. And Felipa had yet another child, Cristian.

    The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding for the family. Flor gets $600 a month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. While the Silverios earned $18,000 last year picking fruit, they picked up another $12,000 for their two "anchor babies." (snip)


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-11-2006 at 11:57 AM.

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    I'm not sure I get understand what you are doing. This support my claims that they already receive services and health care, so why would it be such a dramatic raise in the expense of the things you mentioned?

    I read the Crosman report, it makes a couple of illogical leaps for instance: hospitals closed becasue of poor people using EMTALA, many were illegals, lets blame them. She just used more words.

    worldnetdaily: real stories, seriously, they are really just stories.

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