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Thread: getting grilled by a bank teller

  1. #26
    Newbie nurse15's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I'll put in my 2 cents worth with saying that i am a teller/member services rep during the day at a credit union and in the U.S. cash transactions over $3,000 are BSA (Bank Secrecy Act) reportable transactions and along with this if 'suspicious activity' is suspected after some prodding questions by the teller, a Suspicious Activity Report is supposed to be done by the teller. I believe the suspicious activity report is because of the Patriot Act in addition to the Bank Secrecy Act but i'm not entirely sure on that part...it's been a while since i've done tutorials on suspicious activity reports. Trust me, as a teller we DON'T LIKE to prod and inquire because i know that most of the time large cash deposits are legitimate legal deposits but some places, like the credit union i work at, require us to inquire in order to be in compliance with federal law governing banking systems. Hope this helps.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Thanks nurse15 for confirming that there is indeed a $3000 threshold on reportable transactions by banks. I know that the IRS has separate regulations regarding the reporting of cash transactions which apply to ANY cash transaction in amounts over $10,000, i.e. purchase of a car. There are also separate regulations under the Patriot Act laws which apply to the purchase of money orders in amounts over $1500 per day.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Anyone know the deal in Canada though? We don't have a patriot act, but there could be something...

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I really think what is considered suspicious activity is different by state and institution. Where i work there isn't a $3,000.00 threshold.

    Suspicious activity is defined as basically anything that seems fraudulent.

    I have have worked many places within Michigan that deals with money orders. The highest money orders can be purchased in is $1,000.00 usually. There isnt any tracking of how many anyone buys.

    I think to say it is based on the Patriot Act is misleading. We did have some changes because of the Act. But not involving large cash transactions.

  5. #30
    Crissychan
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Just grin and tell them you have a wonderful sugar daddy.....

  6. #31
    Veteran Member TarynJolie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I would have said I was a bartender. They get paid mostly in tips just like dancers.

  7. #32
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    there doesn't seem to be much posted on the net in the way of bank policies vs statutory requirements in regard to reporting cash transactions in amounts lower than $10,000. The best I could turn up was at , which deals with the Bank Secrecy Act and makes reference to recordkeeping, 'currency transaction' and 'suspicious activity' reporting requirements for cash purchases in amounts over $3,000, money transfers over $3,000, currency exchanges over $1,000, money order / traveller's checks over $2,000 etc.

    There is a fair amount of info available for related cash transaction industries i.e. casinos ... which also enforce a $3,000 reporting threshold ( see ). The casino link also has a footnote that states that the Nevada state cash transaction reporting laws are more stringent than federal laws - as is also the case in NY and probably many other states as well. The US Post office for a fact enforces a $1,500 reporting threshold on total dollar value of money orders purchased by the same person on the same day on a nationwide basis.

    Thus it's very difficult to positively determine whether a particular reporting threshold used by a particular financial institution is the result of federal statute, a state law, or just a 'policy' of that particular instutution. Financial institutions are able to generate 'suspicious activity' reports independent of the dollar amounts involved - the dollar amount thresholds simply make reporting mandatory whether there is reason for 'suspicion' or not.

    In the final analysis, the specific reason that a report was generated doesn't matter. What does matter is that when a report IS generated the Treasury Dep't / IRS will eventually see it and potentially act on it. What also matters is that $3,000 now appears to be a large enough transaction to cause questions to be asked and records to be kept.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-04-2006 at 05:29 AM.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    here's an anecdotal example of the sort of things which can generate a cash transaction report these days ...



    (snip)" They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.

    After sending in the check, they checked online to see if their account had been duly credited. They learned that the check had arrived, but the amount available for credit on their account hadn't changed.

    So Deana Soehnge called the credit-card company. Then Walter called.

    "When you mess with my money, I want to know why," he said.

    They both learned the same astounding piece of information about the little things that can set the threat sensors to beeping and blinking.

    They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted.

    Walter called television stations, the American Civil Liberties Union and me. And he went on the Internet to see what he could learn. He learned about changes in something called the Bank Privacy Act.

    "The more I'm on, the scarier it gets," he said. "It's scary how easily someone in Homeland Security can get permission to spy."

    Eventually, his and his wife's money was freed up. The Soehnges were apparently found not to be promoting global terrorism under the guise of paying a credit-card bill. They never did learn how a large credit card payment can pose a security threat."(snip)

    ... of course you can be absolutely certain that the Soehnges' employment, tax returns, bank accounts etc. were looked at with a fine tooth comb during the 'investigation' process. For many dancers, THIS aspect is the real downside of having a report generated and setting the investigative 'wheels' in motion.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    thank you Melonie, you are a fountain of knowledge!

  10. #35
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Seriously, the U.S. is FUCKED! What is with all that "homeland" security. Can thay not just trust the average Joe? I can't understand why no one is really protesting the invasion of your privacy. Maybe you should picket the White House. I haven't heard anything like that in Canada. Noone has ever asked me about my money, unless I volunteered some information. And noone I know has ever been questioned. How can you live in a country that hates its own people?

  11. #36
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    And noone I know has ever been questioned.
    Actually, Canada's CSIS and CSE and FINTRAC are very busy invading the privacy of Canadian citizens that they doesn't 'trust'. The reason you don't hear much of anything about it is that the Canadian Gov't's control over the media is such that no Canadian news outlet would ever risk exposing a 'national security secret' the way the New York Times and other US media routinely do in the USA !





    of specific interest to this thread are the facts that Canadian FINTRAC has the authority to perform warrantless searches of the financial records of Canadians, but unlike the USA ...

    (snip) "Once a suspicious transaction report has been made, the Money Laundering Act prohibits the disclosure of this fact to the client. In other words, professionals are under the obligation, pursuant to the Money Laundering Act, to blow the whistle on their clients whom they suspect and withhold this information from the persons directly concerned." (snip) ... from

    thus the obvious conclusion is that the exact same sorts of financial transaction reporting is undoubtedly taking place in Canada as well as in the USA, but unlike the USA in Canada the law specifically prevents financial institutions from informing Canadians that they are being reported on and/or investigated ! To comply with this provision of Canadian law means that Canadians can't be asked direct questions about financial transactions, only reported on and/or investigated in secret after the transaction has taken place !

    (snip)"Section 8 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms affords protection against
    unreasonable searches and seizures. Following long-standing constitutional
    jurisprudence in Canada, conducting searches and seizures is permissible provided it has been judicially authorized upon demonstration of probable cause of the perpetration of an offense and probable cause that the searched premises or that the seized materials will furnish evidence relevant to the investigation. Once again, the provisions of the Money Laundering Act pertaining to mandatory reporting, opening and searching of mail and conducting compliance audits fall short of the constitutional safeguards against unreasonable searches and seizures. In fact, all these provisions allow for warrantless searches and seizures, with little, if any, factual grounds to support them."(snip) (same link as above)

    My personal opinion is that I would prefer to know and understand what the US gov't is doing poking around my finances and why, rather than living under an 'ignorance is bliss' delusion that the Canadian gov't is not doing such things when in fact they are doing as much as the US gov't (or any other country which signed the Terrorist Anti-Money Laundering Treaty) is, but doing it in almost total secrecy.

    How can you live in a country that hates its own people?
    Does this mean that the Canadian gov't hates its own people even more, or that it loves its own people enough to try and keep them 'blissfully ignorant' of what's actually going on ?
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-05-2006 at 12:57 PM.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    here is one news article from the Canadian press on the subject ... which has now 'mysteriously disappeared' from the newspaper's online archives ( found it copied on a blog)

    "April 02, 2005

    TheStar.com - Security agencies mushrooming

    Hot topic in Ottawa; no current list of spy groups on books

    `Obviously more than anyone is aware of,' Arar lawyer says

    MICHELLE SHEPHARD
    STAFF REPORTER

    The acronyms are dizzying.

    CSIS, CSE and the RCMP are the big players. But PSEPC is now in the game and don't forget the DND, CBSA or FINTRAC and CATSA.

    Together, these federal agencies make up part of Canada's web of security operations. Their roles have been enhanced with little scrutiny over the last three years as various government agencies have beefed up security operations, leading some to now question just who is in the spy game?

    "Obviously there are more than anyone is aware of," says Toronto lawyer Lorne Waldman, who represents Maher Arar at the federal inquiry probing the circumstances of his case.

    "It has been surprising to discover the extent in which agencies can be involved."

    Arar, 33, a Syrian-born Canadian, was detained in the United States in September 2002, deported to Syria and kept for nearly a year before being released.

    Waldman said he was alarmed when it was revealed at the inquiry that it wasn't just the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Canadian Security Intelligence Service who were somehow involved in his client's case, but that information was handled by a low-profile division within the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT), called ISI.

    Department spokesperson Rodney Moore said ISI is the foreign intelligence division and provides information to the minister, but could not be more specific as to the division's power or responsibilities.

    It is also unclear how, or if, the division's responsibilities have changed since 2001.

    There is no current list of federal agencies involved in security operations, but the Privy Council Office is in the process of updating their March 2001 list, which was written before the advent of such agencies as Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada and the Canadian Border Security Agency.

    In a report to the Arar commission last month, Shirley Heafey, the head of the RCMP's complaints commission, raised the issue of too many agencies and too little oversight.

    She stressed the need for a new federal watchdog, powerful enough to make not only the Mounties, but all spy agencies, answerable to the public.

    "The existing patchwork approach to civilian review of national security activities poses significant risks for rights and freedoms, since these are the principles that may be compromised when national security activities are permitted to go unchecked," she wrote.

    It's a hot topic in Ottawa these days and will be the focus of an international conference next month that's co-organized by CSIS's watchdog agency, the Security Intelligence Review Committee and the Canadian Centre of Intelligence and Security Studies.

    But there's still much debate and little action, says Wesley Wark, an intelligence specialist at the University of Toronto's Munk Centre for International Studies.

    "We are far from the situation in which we can say that the expanded realm of security and intelligence has met and accepted its counterpart � true democratic accountability."

    Wark says that within the security and intelligence community there's a running debate over the best model of organization of intelligence agency � those who argue for centralization and those in the de-centralizer camp.

    The American model, following the 9/11 commission report that noted tragic gaps in intelligence sharing, is now centralized.

    Canada remains still largely de-centralized Wark argues.

    "The Canadian model historically tends towards de-centralization, with weak co-ordination at the centre.

    "The model remains intact despite the 9/11 earthquake," says Wark.

    "My feeling is that co-ordination and central control remain a problem, and so long as they remain a problem a basically decentralized system, with many security and intelligence fiefdoms, poses the risks of slipshod performance and potential abuse.""

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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I always wondered about how the girls handle this.

    I take my wifes money to the bank and I've always wondered what the tellers think of this guy who brings a bunch of cash and 1's to the bank every week. I try to rotate each week among the three branches in the area.

    I'm pretty sure they know I don't strip; :-)

    I've only had one teller ask me about it but I think she was really just trying to be nice and engaging with the customer. I told her I have this special tree in my backyard that I collect the 1's from. She smiled and asked again but I just ignored her.

    I never heard the rule about $3,000 being a reporting limit, I thought only $10K in cash triggered an alert.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Any reports that are filled out are never told to the customer ever. We only fill them out after they are gone. Where I work we dont really do many of them. The only ones we fill out are for transactions in cash over $10,000.00. If a customer is involved in suspicious activity they are watched and even limited in their transactions. For example how much money they can withdrawn with their Atm card in one day. The amount is cut in half from a normal customer. If that happens, we only tell them that is our policy in general. Can we not trust the average Joe? Many times those are the same people when they hit a tight spot in finances commit fraud. Most regulations are aimed at preventing fraud.

    We dont get involved in much also because of legal issues. The last thing any business wants is a law suit.

    As I said before, every financial institution has different policies. If you feel your being treated unfairly go somewhere else.

    As far as homeland security, if you have an arab last name you are suspect automaticly. I have heard of many insane examples. Where i work though it hasnt been an issue.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I never heard the rule about $3,000 being a reporting limit, I thought only $10K in cash triggered an alert.
    ... well, the $3,000 reporting limit on cash transactions / money orders / money transfers is right there in black and white at

    last time I looked at our corporate intranet they had an instruction that the customer was not to be notified if they were under suspicion or being reported (don't remember which). This was when I was checking the AML and BSA requirements at the time of an earlier thread on the same topic, so I wouldn't say we're in too much of a position to criticize the Canadians either.
    Obviously, all of the countries who are signatories to the Terrorist Anti-Money Laundering Treaty are following the same general reporting requirements as stated in the treaty. I wasn't intending to particularly criticize Canada, only to point out to Darling that her own critical post about US cash transaction reporting was actually rather 'nearsighted' in view of the fact that Canada is also doing essentially the same reporting but with a great deal less 'transparency'.

    In other words, in the US if a person makes a transaction which exceeds the reporting threshold the bank/casino/merchant/post office will often ask that person for their personal info while filling out the transaction report form in front of them (this has happened to me several times personally). But this does not happen in Canada, where the report is always made in secret. In other words, in the US the NY Times and many other news sources have published stories about domestic information/intelligence gathering in general as well as about financial reporting in particular a la . In Canada there appears to be a virtual news blackout on the subject.

    Thus while Darling's commentary was undoubtedly based on a genuine belief that her own Canadian gov't is in fact NOT doing this sort of reporting, a belief apparently being cultivated by the Canadian gov't, her belief was also a mistaken one.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-05-2006 at 06:53 PM.

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    Newbie LauraKennedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I personally never go inside the bank, why bother? If you deposit something in the ATM and for some crazy ass reason it doesn't make it to the drawer it will still be electronically there ya know? Just trust that they'll get the envelope and don't bother going inside.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    ... well, the $3,000 reporting limit on cash transactions / money orders / money transfers is right there in black and white at http://www.fincen.gov/bsa_quickrefguide.pdf


    Well if you read the link provided here by Melonie closely it states that money orders, cash transactions etc all must be kept record of only.

    The only time you are required to file a report is if the MSB suspects a customer or the customer does a cash transaction of more then $10,000.00.

    Keeping a record is not filing a report. All MSB's keep records of each transaction for years after it has been done. It is for accounting purposes and legal reasons.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Sad Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    In other words, in the US if a person makes a transaction which exceeds the reporting threshold the bank/casino/merchant/post office will often ask that person for their personal info while filling out the transaction report form in front of them (this has happened to me several times personally).


    Melonie im not sure where this happened to you at. Under the policies i work under as stated above we are not allowed to ever tell the customer about the report. If they have prior knowledge of it existing that is one thing. We never fill out the form in front of them. It would be conter productive. There is no need for a bank to ask for personal information. They have it all already.

    If the goverment had reports on every large transaction done in this country we would need a whole new office to handle all the information.

    I believe you are incorrect.

    Casino prize winnings are not always in cash. Casinos are required to fill out tax information ie CRT.

    Post office money orders do have a cap as do all money orders. In the link you provided it states that there must be a record of the transaction it does not say anything about a report.

  19. #44
    Veteran Member Santos's Avatar
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I do frequent cash transactions at my U.S. bank and credit union. Any cash deposit of 10K or above will generate a CTR (Currency Transaction Report). Every time my bank has filled out a CTR on me, they ask for my SS number and they ask what I do for a living.



    Banks may, at their own discretion, file a suspicious activity report for cash deposits 3K and over.

    In my experience, the 3k threshold means nothing. In other words, I don’t believe many banks report 3K+ cash deposits as being suspicious, especially if you’re a regular customer of that bank. But the bank does not have to tell you they are filing the SAR report. Also, I know of no policy stating that a bank teller must ask you where you got the money when making a cash deposit of >3K<10K.


    These measures were put in place to combat money laundering (read drug money). Checks for large amounts do not trigger CRT’s or other reports—only cash transactions.



    It is my understanding that the federal reports (US) are not reported directly to the IRS; although, the IRS can probably access them anytime they want to. The reports are used primarily to combat drug dealers and, now, terrorism.



    If your income is legit (mine is) and you keep records and pay your taxes (I do), these reports aren’t a big deal.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    From what I understand a TELLER cannot ask you those questions. Only a bank manager can ask you that. The guy I deal with at my bank (wells fargo) told me that. All a teller can do is take your money and cash your checks. If they suspect something they need to go through the proper channels. As for her attitude about your job (which you didnt have to tell a TELLER) I would report her to her manager. Then I would tell the manager that you are an INDEPENDANT CONTRACTOR, not a dancer. The only one you really need to explain yourself to is the IRS.

    AT ANOTHER BANK I DEAL WITH........
    I once paid my entire truck payment ($500) in $1's. All I got was the raised eyebrow. I raised mine back. I do however tell my loan officer what I do for a living and am honest with her about my job that way she knows I have decent income to make my payments and possible extra payments. The first time I told her that I dance for a living she got a little embarresed and said she really didnt need to know that.

    Little do they know (the bank where my truck payment is) that most of the bills I use towards my payment are the ones I picked off the stage using just my butt cheeks.

    Can you tell I hate that bank?


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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Believe me the Arar case is fantabulously infamous around here (I live in Ottawa, and it was a reporter for our newspaper, but still, it was serious national news). But feel free to bash our gov't. I'm not especially fond of it (my parents both work in the department of National Defence, and my mother has worked for four different Ministers of National Defence-- from the stories I've heard, there is loads of bs in all gov'ts it seems)

    but hey man, free flu shots. And polar bears on two dollar coins.

    Though I must admit this money thing is frazzling me. I'm making absurd amounts these days, and no joke I'm almost scared to keep making this much because the taxes thing is confusing and stressful. I need to get better help with that ASAP, because the more I make, the harder it is in a way (you know...). Hmm.

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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    aw I want a polar bear coin! I've never seen one.


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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini_Syn
    From what I understand a TELLER cannot ask you those questions. Only a bank manager can ask you that. The guy I deal with at my bank (wells fargo) told me that. All a teller can do is take your money and cash your checks. If they suspect something they need to go through the proper channels. As for her attitude about your job (which you didnt have to tell a TELLER) I would report her to her manager. Then I would tell the manager that you are an INDEPENDANT CONTRACTOR, not a dancer. The only one you really need to explain yourself to is the IRS.

    AT ANOTHER BANK I DEAL WITH........
    I once paid my entire truck payment ($500) in $1's. All I got was the raised eyebrow. I raised mine back. I do however tell my loan officer what I do for a living and am honest with her about my job that way she knows I have decent income to make my payments and possible extra payments. The first time I told her that I dance for a living she got a little embarresed and said she really didnt need to know that.

    Little do they know (the bank where my truck payment is) that most of the bills I use towards my payment are the ones I picked off the stage using just my butt cheeks.

    Can you tell I hate that bank?
    That's funny, hehe.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I do frequent cash transactions at my U.S. bank and credit union. Any cash deposit of 10K or above will generate a CTR (Currency Transaction Report). Every time my bank has filled out a CTR on me, they ask for my SS number and they ask what I do for a living.
    Same for me. On a $10,000 transfer to my stockbroker I was brought into the bank branch manager's office and asked the same questions while she filled out a CTR in front of me. The first time I attempted to buy over $1000 in money orders at a WalMart the clerk pulled out a form and started asking me questions (name, address SS#). Same at my local US post office when I attempted to buy over $1500 in money orders. Same when I once won $5,000 at a nearby casino.

    From everybody's posts it appears that there is indeed some variation from state to state as well as some variation in house reporting policies from one financial institution to another. However, while your statement is true at the bottom line - that as long as you have your 'ducks in a row' in regard to reporting income and paying taxes, you have nothing to worry about, I would argue that the generation of CTR's and SAR's has to have an effect on one's 'visibility' in official gov't databases and does indeed increase chances of an audit / investigation.

    PS Molly I wasn't bashing the Canadian gov't in particular ... only pointing out that while the Canadian press might make a big deal out of US gov't financial 'snooping' and report nothing about Canadian gov't financial 'snooping', this does not mean that the Canadian gov't isn't 'snooping' as well !

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    Default Re: getting grilled by a bank teller

    I've never had a problem here (Toronto). The general Money-Laundering Act concept is that they're supposed to keep records of transactions over $3000, and to file reports of transactions over $10,000 to FINTRAC. In practice, since the bank keeps records of all transactions, the $3000 threshold really applies to other "money-services" businesses. There also seems to be a reporting requirement for some types of money businesses for transactions over $1000, I'm a bit unclear on that. I think it's something like transactions over $1000, or a total of $3000 or more. There's also something about more than 3 $1000 bills, I think (though they don't print those any more, and I've never seen one). They're also supposed to report anything "suspicious" generally... I've never come across this type of zealotry which I suppose you could generate by doing $9999 deposits daily, nor do I make deposits of $9999 daily :-). (I wish... if I made that much money, I'd be totally happy to fill out whatever reports they want!).

    There's some stuff about how FINTRAC reports aren't supposed to be used for tax investigations unless there's also a money-laundering component to it. Frankly, I don't believe it - bureaucratic growth makes it almost certain that after not catching enough terrorists/money-launderers, they'll eventually find a way to turn their attention to the much more common, easy to catch and profitable tax cheats.

    Anyway, to make a long story short, I've never gotten comments beyond "ah, more cash" and jokes about "we're now putting holds on cash deposits, too" after I once complained about an excessively long hold (two weeks) on a cheque. I deposit amounts between $2-4000 in cash fairly often to my credit union. I should point out that I'm well known (by face) there, and have been a member for *years*.

    But generally, if you find it uncomfortable, why not deposit it in ATMs? They can truly be "banking with the friendly face" in many cases :-). Not only that, but since you're not actually there to question and make comments to, it's that much more effort to start getting curious: they can't start wanting to file reports based on your "looking suspicious" if you weren't even there... The only problem with ATMs, I find, is that if I have a lot of small bills, it's a bit painful to put them through several envelopes so that they're not too thick.

    The other thing you could do if you find it too annoying/painful, would be to set up with several banks, and to spread your deposits around. I do a variant of this unintentionally in that I save money in a brokerage account with a different bank, to which I bring cash deposits, then put cash in another account to cover my taxes, pay credit card bills in cash at the counter, and keep my spending money in cash, with the end results that the deposits I make to my chequing account are basically there to cover cheque-based expenses (and not long-term savings, which I deposit directly into my brokerage account in cash... avoiding delays and bank charges in the process).

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