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Thread: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

  1. #1
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone actually try this. However I found this page and think it's worth looking at and also important information even though it makes me shudder. For me definatly deepend my beleif that abortion should be legal and accesable for all women. As informative as the article is, I cringe just thinking about being desperate enough to actually go through with this outside of a proper clinic or hospital, but history has shown us that women will when there is no other option.

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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I actually used to work with a med student who was involved in helping provide these in low-income or other situations in which women's access to legal abortion is restricted.

    It's true that without access to safe and legal abortion women will resort to far more dangerous means to terminate a pregnancy. I'll never understand how this issue became a political one rather than a medical one.

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quick quibble with the subject line: She makes it very clear a few times that self-abortion isn't possible here whatsoever, that these are directions for starting up a furtive clinic and that $2000 startup costs are involved.

    I don't think anyone with a complete lack of medical training is likely to try this, either: there are enough nurses and ex-nurses in the world that I'm sure at least a few of them will have the inclination and means to do this -- if it comes down to it.

    I wish it wouldn't.

    The issue is a political one unfortunately because the basic foundation of politics is the desire of people to control other people.

    I am very glad my male partner has had a vasectomy.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Herbal abortions can happen usually up to the end of the second month of pregnancy (with something like 50% success rate) - http://www.sisterzeus.com/ for more info. Accupressure can be used at the begining of the first trimester (100% success rate for me and mine, don't know about you and yours tho) by tapping about a handswidth up from your ankle on the inside of your leg (the spleen 6 point).

    This is information every woman should have in these times.



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    Senior Member Sirena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I know the Native American women used to use herbs like cedar and sage as emmenagogues (makes the period come). But they'd take the teas right after they missed their first period so it was more like a miscarriage than an actual abortion. If anyone wants more info on this, PM me.
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I heard on Love Line that if you take some pills, I don't remember what pills but they are normal pills like pain meds , etc, you have like a 79% success of causing an abortion in the first 6 months. If your that intrested in it call his show, i'm sure he'll explain it again.
    I've had an abortion before and I couldn't even read everything on that page. I know sometimes condoms don't work and i'm not on birthcontroll yet so I keep morning after pills at my place. I think it's total bullshit that rights that took us so long to get, are on the verg of being taken away. We should be working on getting more rights, not defending the rights we should already have. Not only are abortions so much money that some girls cn't aford them, they sure as fuck can't aford to get to another state to get one. Mine was almost $400. Any young girl like 15 or 16 couldn't pay for that.
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  7. #7
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    Herbal abortions can happen usually up to the end of the second month of pregnancy (with something like 50% success rate) - for more info. Accupressure can be used at the begining of the first trimester (100% success rate for me and mine, don't know about you and yours tho) by tapping about a handswidth up from your ankle on the inside of your leg (the spleen 6 point).

    This is information every woman should have in these times.
    Lena you rock! And Sirenne!!!
    I have been trying to collect natural / alternative abortion methods for quite a few years and I have so little REAL information it's not funny!

    If anyone else has anything please post it or pm it to me!!! I think it's really important not to loose any more information than we already have!

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    Featured Member venusofwillendorf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    i've been looking for info on herbal abortion too, aussiepunkshocker.... from searching around online, i've been able to find that there were two books written about the subject at one point in time- Herbal Abortion: Using Plants to Induce Miscarriage by AlexSandra Lett and Self-ritual for invoking release of spirit life in the womb: A personal treatise on ritual herbal abortion by Deborah Maia. however, when bush was re-elected, both of those suddenly became unavailable on amazon. i can get them from abebooks, but i'd have to pay a bundle, since they're out of print, and not knowing anything about the reliability of the information within in the first place, i'm rather disinclined to do so... *(~syghs~)*. have you heard anything about those?
    Last edited by venusofwillendorf; 03-12-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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  9. #9
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by venusofwillendorf
    i've been looking for info on herbal abortion to, aussiepunkshocker.... from searching around online, i've been able to find that there were two books written about the subject at one point in time- Herbal Abortion: Using Plants to Induce Miscarriage by AlexSandra Lett and Self-ritual for invoking release of spirit life in the womb: A personal treatise on ritual herbal abortion by Deborah Maia. however, when bush was re-elected, both of those suddenly became unavailable on amazon. i can get them from abebooks, but i'd have to pay a bundle, since they're out of print, and not knowing anything about the reliability of the information within in the first place, i'm rather disinclined to do so... *(~syghs~)*. have you heard anything about those?
    Thanks Venus! No I have not heard of those books ever! The only things I've ever seen in print really were a couple of very short articles and a short chapter in an Anarcho-Feminist booklet called "Take Back Your Life" which came out about 10 years ago (I think it was printed by Profane Existance collective.) So far all of the info I do have really does lack alot of detail unfortunatly! I might look into the books you mentioned at some stage when I'm feeling a little more financial...

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    God/dess FrustratedBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    God I read most of that and it makes me get shivers down my spine. I have had an endometrial biopsy and an IUD inserted. I'm telling you both of these procedures were the most pain I have ever experienced in my entire life. I cannot imagine having an abortion without being under general anesthesia and I doubt any non doctor could safely do that to a person. Scary scary scary. What is really scary is that people actually have done abortions with a coat hanger. I would be soooo terrified to be either doing it or having it done.

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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrustratedBunny
    God I read most of that and it makes me get shivers down my spine. I have had an endometrial biopsy and an IUD inserted. I'm telling you both of these procedures were the most pain I have ever experienced in my entire life. I cannot imagine having an abortion without being under general anesthesia and I doubt any non doctor could safely do that to a person. Scary scary scary. What is really scary is that people actually have done abortions with a coat hanger. I would be soooo terrified to be either doing it or having it done.
    Eep! With a coat hanger?! I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have to do that...scary!

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    As the original blog poster pointed out, if you take herbs to abort, you can have bits of tissue left inside and get a deadly infection. Hence why the RU-486 pill is always followed up by another pill which cleans out whatever's left.

  13. #13
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    ^^^^
    Opinions are fine, but keep it sensible and relevant if you don't mind. This thread isn't about what your opinion of killing is or what your opinion of liberated women is, it's about choices and the lack of and alternatives and things that relate to that. So if you don't like choice and can't actually get a grasp of the conversation the best thing to do is start a new thread somewhere else or find an existing one, and / or go and debate the subject on an abortion discussion board somewhere.
    No offence meant btw.
    Last edited by aussiepunkshocker; 03-13-2006 at 07:33 AM.

  14. #14
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by thechaosfairy
    As the original blog poster pointed out, if you take herbs to abort, you can have bits of tissue left inside and get a deadly infection. Hence why the RU-486 pill is always followed up by another pill which cleans out whatever's left.
    Good point! I wonder whats in the 2nd pill? I wonder if there are herbs which can do this too?

    One of my favorite books "The Mother" by pearl S Buck, the main character uses herbs to cause a miscarraige and never totally recovers and Knew that was possible beforehand. That's always stuck with me.

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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrustratedBunny
    oh god that is scary! I hope I never get pregnant (hence the IUD) but damn if I wanted an abortion I'd go to whatever state they knock you out the deepest in! I think in Florida they do put you under though. I'm terrified of even having my IUD replaced. It hurt sooooo bad the first time that I'm scared to have it removed and a new one put in. I want to see if I can find an anesthesiologist who will put me under for like 5 minutes.
    God forbid, but, if you ever do need a termination and want to be put under, New Jersey offers general anesthesia. Having had one, it was the most physically painless surgery I've had. The mental anguish was another thing altogether.

    The only problem I have with the herbal solutions is the lack of medical support in re: answers to questions. For instance, when I had mine, I experienced heavy clotting and it scared me. My clinic has a 24 hour hotline that you can call and an actual nurse speaks to you so you can determine if the problem requires immediate attention.

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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiepunkshocker
    Good point! I wonder whats in the 2nd pill? I wonder if there are herbs which can do this too?

    One of my favorite books "The Mother" by pearl S Buck, the main character uses herbs to cause a miscarraige and never totally recovers and Knew that was possible beforehand. That's always stuck with me.
    The second pill is . . . uh . . . just a sec. *pokes at Google*

    Mifepristone is the famous RU-486 pill. The second pill is misoprostol, a prostaglandin. This causes anything that remains in the uterus to be expelled.

    Here's some stuff from Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone

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    Featured Member venusofwillendorf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    more illegal information:

    if you ever take herbal abortifacient drugs, and you begin to miscarry, go to a hospital immediately . there's a reason that surgical abortion is practiced more often, above and beyond its higher effectiveness rate- it is much safer. if abortion is illegal in your state/country/province/etc. tell the emergency room staff that you are miscarrying, and that you ate some wild plants. describe the herb and give the name. do not confess to having sought to terminate the pregnancy. when you induce miscarriage through ingestion of herbs you are at risk for haemorrhage, stroke, infection, and numerous other problems which can leave you sterile, seriously ill, or dead. seek medical attention as soon as you begin cramping, please, unless you are being attended by a midwife or herbalist who has experience with abortions.
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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    For the sake of information:

    Some women have aborted by using a syringe to insert iodine or peroxide into their uterus. This can be FATAL, but for some reason some people are still telling women that it's a good idea.

    On herbal abortions: The herbs will cause birth defects if the fetus doesn't leave. You need to have a back up abortion plan before you embark on an herbal abortion.



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    Featured Member DSUsb19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I've heard about the coat hanger abortions. It's like the climber who hacked his own arm off to survive. Some people feel such desperation, and each person's desperation tolerance is different. DIY surgeries just aren't a good idea under any circumstances. Anyone see the tv show about the body builder who tried to drain his own hematoma and infection? He was a long time steroid user and would reuse needles. He developed a massaive infection and hematoma on his bicep. He attempted a DIY and botched it because he didn't know what he was doing and wound up almost bleeding to death. When you force your ideals on people and see what it causes, it just goes to show that maybe you don't know what's best for other people.
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by thechaosfairy
    The second pill is misoprostol, a prostaglandin. This causes anything that remains in the uterus to be expelled.
    Some docs give this to women who are already in the stages of miscarrying, but are "stuck"...meaning that their body, for whatever reason, is not expelling the "products of conception" or blighted ovum. I had to take this the last time I miscarried. It brings on some wicked cramps...but it does work effectively.

    You know, I feel that if someone is needing to abort, that there should be safer ways to do so. Under proper supervision, there is no reason for anyone to really have to undergo surgical procedures to finish a miscarriage...or abortion. My first miscarriage, I was told I needed to have the D&C done and it cost $10,000. To think that they could have just given me a couple of pills as vaginal suppositories and let my body do what it needed to do by itself.

    But, I guess that's why most docs choose the surgical route...right off the bat. Sometimes it's needed, but most of the time it's more about lining their pockets. And what does that faster than a surgical procedure?

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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    From the site originally posted by aussiepunkshocker:

    There's no way you can see into the uterus. From here on out -- this is the scary part -- you will have to operate on feel alone. Don't feel too afraid. Each element in the uterus feels different from the others, and as long as you are careful and understand exactly what the procedure involves at each step, it will not be too difficult.

    An abortion, especially for an early pregnancy, is a relatively easy procedure to perform.

    When you feel the curettage and removal is complete, make sure you examine the fetal material you have already extracted. If you're missing anything obvious -- for instance, a head -- make sure to find and remove it.

    This scares the hell out of me, I can not believe she is suggesting an abortion can be performed by anyone with absolutely no medical knowledge.
    I chose the sections above because they suggest parts of the procedure (feel around the uterus, examine fetal material) that someone with no experience would not be able to do accurately if at all.

    I am 100% pro-choice but history has shown that even Dr's botch abortions and cause serious injury and even death when they are not properly trained.

    Lets hope noone will have to resort to such blind procedures!

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    Featured Member venusofwillendorf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    obviously, attempting surgery at home with untrained practitioners and possibly substandard equipment is a bad idea.

    you could buy black market pills. if you don't know your dealer, or hell, even if you do, you could be taking anything. if you're lucky, they'll just be sugar pills, which'll mean you wasted your money and you're still pregnant, but alive. if you're not lucky, who the hell knows.

    you could take herbs, but your chances of it working are about 50/50. if it doesn't work, you still have to find some other method. and they're dangerous, and hard to find in some cases.

    you could visit the same local quack who gives poor trannies pure silicone injections to fill their cheeks with dirty needles, and hope he doesn't kill you. good luck.

    i think i'd go with the diy jane opperation. yeah, if i had better options, i'd choose them. but this isn't about having options, is it? it's about what we'll do when there aren't any options left.
    Last edited by NinaDaisy; 03-16-2006 at 12:25 AM.
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    Featured Member thechaosfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    sexysweet:

    The original poster didn't fall all over herself making disclaimers, but she didn't suggest that anyone try this with no medical knowledge, either. If you read the original post, there are several places where she points out that medical knowledge is necessary and should be acquired. Including one quoted in here --

    "as long as you are careful and understand exactly what the procedure involves at each step . . ."

    That's quite a bit of medical knowledge right there, that needs to be acquired to follow these directions carefully.

    There is a difference between medical knowledge and approved surgical certification. There are a lot of people who have medical knowledge other than certified surgeons: nurses, EMTs . . .

    I don't imagine Jane Schmoe fresh out of high school could do this in her garage, but if Jane Schmoe went to nursing school, learned sterilization procedures, gained a sense of anatomy and of how to save lives, etc . . . she'd stand a good chance of getting it right.

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    Veteran Member ChloeTheRed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    I'm of the opinion "information wants to be free." This is one woman putting everything she knows about a procedure out there so that she can share her knowledge. Any woman attempting to start a Jane clinic would need far more information than is available here, but it is a good starting point for someone to get an idea of what is involved and begin seeking out additional resources.

    Smart, determined people can figure out how to do anything, but having information available like this makes it easier.

    And a note: I have a biology major from a reputable college and I have worked in labs before (I understand sterilization, etc.) Armed with the minimal equipment mentioned in the article and a willing friend to act as my assistant, I am fairly confident that I could perform this protocol with minimal risk to my patient. If I had witnessed the procedure several times before attempting it, I am certain I would be able to perform it safely. Would I ever want to attempt it if there were a legal or safer option? No. Would I do it if there were a trained doctor or nurse practitioner who could? No. Would I volunteer my time and resources if there was no other option? Yes, but I would be scared shitless of making a mistake.
    Therefore, I need to make every effort to make sure that it doesn't come to that.

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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contrversial: DIY abortion.

    Hey guys, I know this is a heated subject and a lot of people have very strong opinions on it either way, but I would appreciate if you guys didn't post on the political angle or your personal opinions of this. This is not the proper forum for that.

    Any posts not strictly relating to the healthcare ONLY aspect of this will be edited or, if necessary, deleted. This is a good forum and typically pretty easy to manage, and I don't like to moderate "just because I can". I kindly ask that posters please respect this to keep the peace.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

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