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Thread: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Sad Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Okay ladies, it's kind of long, but here it is:

    I have been dancing off and on for about 3 and 1/2 years through undergraduate, one year of law school, and currently business graduate school (dual degree thing). I used to work in a very upscale club, but I left after college graduation. When I returned, the whole scene at this club changed. I used to make money there b/c I was nice, very pretty, exotic, and could talk to a man about any topic. The house fees and mandatory tip outs were fairly high in comparison to other area clubs (approx $110-$130 a night), but that was okay because I made decent, no...good money. When I returned after 1st year law school, there were a lot more women on every shift (70-100), fewer customers, and a lot more extras, as well as corruption among the management (embezzlement was rampant). The money was not as good anymore and became unacceptable actually, and my "nice girl" personality was starting to work against me. After a while of breaking even and then banking negative, I moved on to smaller clubs. These clubs were blue collar, didn't have as many in shape/presentable girls, extras were the norm, and being nice and smart DEFINITELY works against me. I swear to God, I try to be extra professional, ALWAYS smile, be assertive but NOT agressive, and it feels like it's all working against me now. I see some gutter-butt chicks (not to judge, but I mean ill-mannered, unkempt women) making serious money and I'm making a 1/4 of what some of them make. They're aggressive to the point of being rude, and I'm not comfortable being that way. It doesn't help that I'm in graduate school full time, and unfortunately I don't drink or alter myself so there is no way for me to disconnect and be some trifling bitch. I'm in the best shape ever, have more confidence than ever, and am very well polished and well versed in economics, politics, etc. I am thinking about quitting altogether and just getting a full time job. I really can't deal with the perverse nature of the club that I am currently in, and this area doesn't have many acceptable clubs. I can't travel b/c my study load is way too heavy and it's hard enough to keep my head above water as it is.

    Can anyone help me be a "bitchier" or more aggressive dancer? Should I play the dumb broad role (totally unnatural)? I have to dance at least until the semester is over, and I could stand to earn a little cushion while (or if) I'm adjusting to full time work. AYUDAME!! (Help me!)


    Regards,

    Francesca

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    I guess you need to decide if you WANT to be like these girls. I dont think they're getting money cuz they're bitchy... Look more closely. Do they do extras? Do they just hustle more? What's your major? Graduate school is a job in itself and a full time job might interfere with your grades. From my own experiances... I've learned to dumb myself down. SOMETIMES you'll find a guy who seems to appreciate you having a brain and then you can talk with him... But generally, making them feel like the sh*t (which doesn't include you being smarter than them) is what works. I'm totally with you on the whole nice girl thing... but if it's really not working... You can still be nice AND aggressive.

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    If you cant be what you call "bitchy",be the dumb blonde,its REALLY not that hard. At work it's all an act anyway. Unless you really do find each and every guy attractive to dance for,i dont i act like i do,so act...its not that hard as you make it out to be.

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    I have a double concentration in finance and info systems. I'm super tired all of the time but try to only work a few times a week so as to not feel stretched too thin. Some are better hustlers, I think that part of being a nice girl is not being a real good hustler for whatever reason. Do you have any dumb down tips? I don't tell people I'm in school (everyone asks me, though), and I try to ask guys, "Oh what do you do? Wow! Is that hard?" I'm aggressive as hell when it comes to my grades and studying, I just don't know how to transfer that same energy to the SC. Also, I think that I should maybe go back to the city, b/c the club I am at is kinda out here in the woods...

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Based on your description, it appears that you are trying too hard working against type. You're smart, sexy and experienced and probably three cuts above the cash potential or intellectual firepower of your clientele.

    You definitely should switch clubs or go back to the city where you have more options. The diversity of the city will bring in lawyers, business owners and other professionals who will appreciate what you have to offer.

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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Thanks. I think a return to the city would be in my interest. I was just trying to give a nearby place a shot. Oh, well. Wish me luck...


    Francesca

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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Ok, I don't beat around the bush or lie. I am like you, I have a college degree and I danced for years because I was not ready to enter the arena yet.

    You don't have anything in common with these people. You are too smart and motivated, and normal. The key here is NORMAL. These people are from a different class than you. They don't even like you. They want blue-collar chicks who are street-smart and play games. These people are cliquish and backward. You won't ever make any money there, because you just aren't on their level. You weren't made to be there. You are a different breed. They would victimize you if they could get away with it, because that's what they like to do, in general. It doesn't matter how you act, you have made your name now, they scouted you out from the beginning, and there's no fooling them. You don't belong in this business. You would do better in the upper-scale clubs, but even there they expect a certain street-smart, bad girl.

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    Featured Member Krazyjane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Ok, I don't beat around the bush or lie. I am like you, I have a college degree and I danced for years because I was not ready to enter the arena yet.

    You don't have anything in common with these people. You are too smart and motivated, and normal. The key here is NORMAL. These people are from a different class than you. They don't even like you. They want blue-collar chicks who are street-smart and play games. These people are cliquish and backward. You won't ever make any money there, because you just aren't on their level. You weren't made to be there. You are a different breed. They would victimize you if they could get away with it, because that's what they like to do, in general. It doesn't matter how you act, you have made your name now, they scouted you out from the beginning, and there's no fooling them. You don't belong in this business. You would do better in the upper-scale clubs, but even there they expect a certain street-smart, bad girl.
    This is very true. I started out at a shithole club (read: notorious retirement home for strippers that practically advertised the fact that there were no bouncers, and I saw nipples touching pubic hair) where my everyday rhetoric would cause people to blink and say, "Speak English!" They wanted a nasty lapdance in which I'd talk filthy to them and let them lick my pussy, not give some great conversation and a seductive dance. The dancers hated me too, thought I was a snob and a freak for trying to be friendly, jumped over me by taking out their shit on me because I didn't want to start shit, and even referred to me as "that Jap girl."

    Things improved a thousandfold when I left the shithole club (the bitchy, jealous, ugly stepsister dancers tried to convince me that if I went to a nice club, I'd get beaten up and bullied) and danced in a collegetown club. Check to see if there are any clubs close to campus. I actually made a little bit less money because there were more girls dancing and I had to drive an hour to and an hour from the place on weekends only becauase I had school too, but the security and good environment was worth it. Perhaps you've exhasted your resources, but don't resort to the shithole clubs. Those pigs and gutterbuts can't appreciate someone like you. Even if you don't flaunt those sexy brains of yours, people are still going to feel threatened when you accidentally use words that they don't know.

    I know what you mean about wanting to become to becoma an ice queen. I never was able to do that, even after I've retired from stripping. I still have the same problems that I had in the clubs. Currently, I'm working as a nursing assistant in a nursing home, and it's pretty hostile too. I'm pretty much the only non-black person who works there, I actually care about my job and the people I take care of, and management actaully encourages drama, hires people that I wouldn't trust with my dog b/c they're so desperate for workers, and accuses me of not doing my work b/c unlike everyone else, I'm not finished early because I refuse to leave someone in their own feces. I'm hoping that things will get better as I advance in my career and will be surrounded by people who are my intellectual equals or at least aren't threatened by it. I don't try to flaunt it, but things still have a way of slipping out. I wish you luck.

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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Thank you all so much. It has really made me take an honest look at where I am dancing. I wish I had known about this board sooner. I could have gotten so much more accomplished at work!! Oh, well. Spilled milk. Again thanks and I will keep you guys posted on my venture back into the big city.


    Francesca

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Honey, I wish you the best of luck, but... no. Nobody is "too nice" to be a dancer.

    I work in blue collar clubs - I love blue collar clubs. Blue collar guys love me. I (I flatter myself) am perfectly acceptably intelligent, and I never dumb it down. Girls do not make money being dumb or smart. It is just outside the arena. They make money being ENTERTAINING - it's a different animal. Being smart does come into that, but not inevitably and there are plenty of smart people who are not very fun or entertaining at all. Keep this in mind. A lot of girls are exessively up on their brains. Being smart is very RARELY useful compared to being funny, witty, cute (behaviourally, not appearance wise), amusing or, frankly, slutty. That is not just blue collar. That is everywhere. Keep it in mind. The fact that you can "converse on every topic" is not worth as much, overall, as knowing a few funny stories.

    So I would look at your behaviour as well as your club. (Because you said you moved from an upscale club where you still finished in the negative. This is not an accusation of any kind - the simple fact is, however, that the only behaviour in the world you can control is your own. So that is the simplest and most effective place to look for flaw and improvement). Are you showing off? Are you inadvertantly lending this class consciousness to where you work? Are you accidently implying to these guys that you are better than them because you are in law school and they are mere whatever-they-are? People don't like that. Are you too conscious of the perceived differences (those things you think make you better) between you and the girls you work with? Does this cause you to feel/act like you don't have to work as hard? Do you expect customers to come to you because you are the hottest commodity? Are you prissy? (I don't mean that in a judgmental way - I think you should never let anyone do anything you don't want, but - ) are you delivering less than the local standard in your dances? If the local standard is grind and you are delivering air, it doesn't matter where you work and how pretty you are. When you say you are "professional" what does that mean? Are you poised and mature? Try being playful and fun. That can be professional, and may be more appealing. That is all I can think of right now. Please keep in mind I am not accusing you of doing any of these things in particular. They are, however, errors I've seen girls with similar complaints make. If the local standard of contact is just too high for you, then it is just too high. There is nothing to be done about it. You just need more financial aid. (I am not encouraging you to change your standards of comfort - but if your standards are not the local norm you are bashing yourself in the face trying to work in this industry). I am not accusing you of being a snob, or a bitch or anything. It's just, like I said, that the only behaviour you can really affect is yours.

    Good Luck, and I really do hope things work out for you.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    No, the only reason I left the upscale place initially is b/c politics and fraud destroyed the place and a lot of the customers wanted to stay away after it started being splashed all over the newspapers. Also, they wanted 8 hour shifts and I could no longer sacrifice my studies to dance. (Not to mention, the conservatives began protesting outside of the club.) I don't think I am better than anyone, EVER. When I say I am professional, I mean that I say hey, ask how the guy's night is going, smile plenty. I don't keep begging for dollar bills when I see that the guy is obviously uncomfortable after the 4,5,6th dollar. And no, I never think, "Oh this guy's a blue collar worker, and I'm better", so that vibe's not coming off at all. I don't think that being intelligent/smart makes you a good person. I am witty, but I don't say disgusting things. The reason that I introduced the thread is b/c I have made money and very good money in the past and since I came to this smaller club I haven't. I understand that every club is not for every woman, and maybe that's just it. I'm not trying to play the blame game, I'm just pointing some internal/external factors that do/do not work against me in this area. I was just beginning to think that the "nice" thing wasn't in anymore, or it wasn't appropriate for every SC.

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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Also, thank you for your input. I think the biggest thing is the local standard of lap dances in the area bars and I had not given that much thought.

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner
    Based on your description, it appears that you are trying too hard working against type. You're smart, sexy and experienced and probably three cuts above the cash potential or intellectual firepower of your clientele.

    You definitely should switch clubs or go back to the city where you have more options. The diversity of the city will bring in lawyers, business owners and other professionals who will appreciate what you have to offer.
    What he said!!! You need to be around people who are more like you. As much as you try, if these club patrons and dancers are out in the sticks then you coudln't possibly say anything to relate to them. That tends to be my problem at work sometimes too.







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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    ^^^
    Sorry, love, it is seriously nothing personal and hugely critical. But you did say that you broke even and banked negative. And when when people ask questions like "Am I too smart and nice to work in this club?" they mostly think that they are smarter and nicer than those that are surrounding them. So you can see where I might have gotten this idea. It also occurs to me that you might be doing this either accidentally or unconsciously - like you can probably see, if you read your initial post again, where I got the idea - even if that is not what you meant. Perhaps you have made similar unintentional errors in the past without realizing it?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Sorry, I should have stated that I was referring to shit hole clubs rather than blue collar clubs.

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    Yeah, I can see where that impression could have been left with you. I hope I don't come off as uppity. I don't think I do. I worked at a blue collar club in the city and it was totally different. The distance was just a bitch. Ah, well. Either way I'm headed back to the city, just not to the same club. I came to the current club I'm in b/c it's closer than me (between the woods and the 'burbs) driving all the way downtown, but I do fit in better with that crowd. Wish me luck and thank you again for all of your advice.


    Francesca

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    It will also depend on where you are, a lot.

    I work at Dino's Inn here in Portland, OR. I don't make very much money, but I have firmly decided to stay because I love the crowd and my co-workers. It's a divey neighborhood bar, but it's Portland blue-collar: which is to say that these are the unusual down-to-earth folk who work in a machine shop or painting houses all day and then write poetry to their favorite strippers.

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    Default Re: Am I too nice to dance? (a little long)

    I've dealt with the "too nice" thing before. When I first started dancing, I was a lot "nicer" to customers because I was used to the whole kiss-ass, "customer is always right" mentality that had been shoved down my throat during many past retail jobs. I acted more like a down-to-earth girl-next-door than a typical stripper. I also was kinda shy and insecure at the time, because dancing was a strange new thing for me, and also because I had a lot of problems at the time so the best way I dealt with these problems at work was by staying quiet about it.

    In the first week or 2 that I started dancing, some asshole told me that I was "too humble to be a stripper." Please note here that he did NOT spend money on me, and earlier that shift he'd interrupted our conversation to ask another girl for a lapdance. Later when I recalled the incident, I felt insulted! With all the money problems that I had at that time, why the HELL would I quit dancing(and the money that came with it) to work a more "humble" job, such as my former retail job for $6-8/hr?? (At the time, I didn't have the ability to get a better-paying non-dancing job.)

    Over time, I've gotten to be less friendly towards customers. People still frequently comment that I'm the "nicest dancer in the club," so by me being less friendly than before, I'm still being decently nice to customers. For example, I've learned the hard way that I shouldn't sit with a customer who's not spending for a long time, just because he's a "nice guy" or because I can tell that he likes me. I'm not obligated! I've also found that dancing to angry aggressive music like metal helps to show customers that I am NOT an innocent "girl next door," and it also allows me to take out my frustration via dancing, thus showing more emotion in my dancing. I don't do any extras and I also do not do drugs(in or out of the club); however, I will tell customers about my dirty sexcapades or my stories about LSD experimentation that took place years ago. This plants the idea into their head that I'm a "freak," wild, a lot of fun, and not a "nice girl," without me having to actually do extras or drugs. These changes have helped me to show customers that I'm NOT an innocent little nice girl, and it's helped me to make more money. However, although I've improved, I STILL think I'm a little too nice and learning to overcome this is STILL an ongoing process. I think it takes time. If you are a nice girl by nature(like me), it comes harder.

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