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Thread: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Pictograph of US Federal Spending




    Note the blurb on Social Security, medicare etc. in the center circle

  2. #2
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    The blurb seems more like a Political Poo item (call for political action). I thought PP was closed. It makes one wonder if the picture was placed in deviantart.com in order to take it out of an otherwise recognizable political webpage.

    Heck, since we're talking political action, it seems like just dumping Iraq involvement would have saved us about $200 billion to date and another quarter trillion into the future. Not that I'm advocating it, just saying in terms of dollars and cents......

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    Despite the focus of the particular site upon which this pictograph happens to be hosted, the pictograph itself correctly shows the various gov't departments and their budgets - NOT INCLUDING mandatory expenditures for entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare etc. This was the purpose of my pointing out the blurb, to explain why the 2004 total federal budget is 2.3 trillion dollars, but only 800 billion worth of spending is shown in the pictograph, with the 1.5 trillion dollar balance being spent on Social Security, Medicare and other 'mandatory' programs.

    Granted that the pictograph has chosen to post the spending amounts connected to certain line items in those dep't budgets (and I assume has chosen to not post the spending amounts connected to other items). However, the amounts are correct, and the pictograph does give the only 'overview' of the US federal budget in a form that can actually be absorbed readily by the average human being.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-24-2006 at 04:26 PM.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    These are the numbers for those programs in 2004

    If you're curious about the spike and jump in the increase of dollars spent in the1950's and 1960s , there was a major amendment passed.

    http://www.ssa.gov/history/1950amend.html
    Last edited by Vamp; 03-24-2006 at 05:00 PM.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    The pie chart below is the government view of the budget. This is a distortion of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g., Social Security), and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.


    Another view of the over all spending

    Source: New York Times, Feb. 7, 2005, based on

    Budget of the United States 2004

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    ^^ social security + medicare spending = about $800 billion of the 1.5 trillion in 'mandatory' expenditures. I know that medicaid is also included in the 'mandatory' category, and by process of deduction from the following ...

    "Dec. 27, 2005 – The programs aimed primarily at helping senior citizens – Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid – cost the federal government $1 trillion in 2004 – almost half of the total $2.2 trillion spent. Five states received one-third of this money, according to a new report by the U.S. Census Bureau that shows federal spending by state and county."

    ... it would appear that 2004 medicaid spending is on the order of 200 billion dollars.

    I may be incorrect, but my assumption is that the remaining 400-500 billion dollars in non-discretionary money wound up going to Hurricane Katrina relief, military operations in the middle east, interest on the national debt etc.

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    At the same time people have paid into these programs. I think it is the goverments mismanagement of funds that is causing the increase. These programs need to be reformed. The reform needs to come in the form of accountablity of health providers who abuse the system, the goverments mismanagement of funds, and citzens who abuse the system.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    I may be incorrect, but my assumption is that the remaining 400-500 billion dollars in non-discretionary money wound up going to Hurricane Katrina relief, military operations in the middle east, interest on the national debt etc.
    Nope, Katrina relief and spending for ongoing operations in Iraq are authorized by 'emergency spending bills' and are not even included in the budget. More smoke and mirrors from the 'party of fiscal responsibility'.

    source: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/02/bu...gewanted=print

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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    Nope, Katrina relief and spending for ongoing operations in Iraq are authorized by 'emergency spending bills' and are not even included in the budget
    Yes, you are correct. So with a roughly 2.3 trillion dollar federal budget (not including Katrina relief, mideast war spending, or other 'one time items'), we know that about $800 billion was spent on 'discretionary' functions as shown in the pictograph, plus another $500 billion spent on SSI, plus another $300 billion on medicare, plus another $200 billion on medicaid, leaving another $400-500 billion yet to be explained. According to another $350 billion or so was spent on gov't debt service i.e. T-Bond interest etc. I know that "a billion dollars isn't what it used to be", but there still appears to be another $100 billion unaccounted for !


    At the same time people have paid into these programs (SSI, medicare)
    From a real world standpoint, the fact that there are three separate line items for income tax, SSI tax, and medicare tax, and the fact that there are two separate 'budgets' one for 'discretionary items' and one for 'mandatory items', doesn't affect the gov't's finances at all. SSI tax and medicare tax are really no different than capital gains tax i.e. they are all a particular form of tax and they all have their own tax rules and percentages. In the final analysis, everything that comes in is considered to be tax receipts, and everything that 'goes out' is considered to be budgeted spending (or emergency spending i.e. Katrina and the mideast war).

    Not wanting to get unduly political, but any misconception that SSI and Medicare are somehow 'insurance programs' financed by asset earnings rather than 'entitlement programs' financed by current year tax receipts is dispelled by the fact that SSI and Medicare taxes have never been kept as separate assets, have never been invested in the private sector, and have never accrued additional 'earnings' on those assets, the way that an insurance company's assets would have done. Any misconceptions to the contrary are indeed 'smoke and mirrors' stemming from the days of FDR and LBJ.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-25-2006 at 05:29 AM.

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    Veteran Member TarynJolie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pictograph of US Federal Spending

    The blurb seems more like a Political Poo item (call for political action). I thought PP was closed. It makes one wonder if the picture was placed in deviantart.com in order to take it out of an otherwise recognizable political webpage.
    It wouldn't happen to be a fanatical right side of the fence website now would it ?

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