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Thread: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

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    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I was born into the lower class, and I was also born a genius. Who's to say that someone from the lower class has any fucking chance? I didn't. My dad hated me from the word go. I went to high class parties and got raped.

    There are definite class distinctions. Intelligence does not matter.

    What do you think about classes? I believe in a world based on merits. What do you think?

  2. #2
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Well, why did you get to be an American citizen? Because you happened to be born in a particular geographic location. It doesn't get more arbitrary than that.

    I believe there are class distinctions, but intelligence and ability does matter. You wouldn't be the first person to overcome class distinctions. It is much less of a problem, really, for geniuses, than for the more average schmuks like myself. Like one can point to a thousand people of exceptional ability who move above the class they were born into - usually the working poor - while conveniently ignoring that the most people are not that exceptional, and simply perpetuate it.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  3. #3
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I think a lot of people hide behind class distinctions, but they aren't as big a deal as that. Upper-class girls are raped too, and upper-class families are also full of resentment and abuse. I think people born into a "lower-class" family probably have to work harder to get ahead, but that makes us better people in the long run.

    My family is a mix of lower- and middle-class; I was born to a divorced teenage mother on food stamps and welfare. I had to work and fight like hell for everything, but I've got a Master's degree and the career I wanted. It can be done. I will say that family support makes a world of difference, and is worth much more than money. And that has nothing to do with class.

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Living in the First World in the 21st Century, we are, as a whole, luckier than 99% of the people who have walked the planet.

    I make more money than anyone else in my lineage. Some of my family didn't have smarts, or luck, or timing, or a work ethic. Others had them but not in the right proportions. And any number of small changes during the course of my life could have brought about a better or worse result than I have right now.

    I don't "believe" in a world of anything. I believe in reality and dealing with it as it exists. I'm drawing air, walking in good health, and thinking with a clear head. It's a good start. Millions of people don't even get that much.

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    I don't "believe" in a world of anything. I believe in reality and dealing with it as it exists. I'm drawing air, walking in good health, and thinking with a clear head. It's a good start. Millions of people don't even get that much.
    Well said and all that really matters at the end of the day.

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    God/dess leilanicandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I don't "believe" in a world of anything. I believe in reality and dealing with it as it exists. I'm drawing air, walking in good health, and thinking with a clear head. It's a good start. Millions of people don't even get that much.[/QUOTE]

    I kinda agree! I also think that those label of class. Gives us a reason to go agaisnt one another! Also give certain people a feelin that they are better than this class of people. Because you are poor, it dose not mean that they arestupid or bad people. Because you are rich or high class is dose not mean that you are classy, smart, or even good people at that! You shouldn't never judge in groups.
    each indivual is there own person!
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    God/dess FrustratedBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I had a friend whose dad was pretty well off. She always used to say that big money just breeds bigger problems. Her mom ran off when she was little. She didn't want to take any of her dad's momey because she didn't want him controlling her. We can all have problems no matter what our socioeconomic status. I grew up going to the most expensive private school in my city through the 8th grade. I think it fucked me up. These were supposedly "high class" kids but there were some of the most obnoxious awful people I've encountered in my life in that school. Money cannot buy class.

    If you are equating high class to high income, yes, it's harder to pull yourself out of that hole than if you weren't born into it. But don't think that just because a person has some money that they have some class. I think one of the ways to see what a person truly is is to give them some power and/or money and see how they treat people. If the man who is suddenly a millionaire still treats the guy who waits on him at Burger King with respect then he really is a decent man with class. If he doesn't, well then, he never really was a decent man with class. He just didn't have an opportunity to show that he wasn't.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Well, just to be fair, ET is clearly talking about socio-economic class and the opportunities attached to it, not whether rich people are nicer than poor people.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    whenever i hear "class" i think of Al Bundy saying, "All class all the time!" i don't recall what question he was responding to, tho, lol.
    "The herd walks off the cliff because the herd are not a group of individuals - the herd is a mass of followers and followers follow the path of cowardice."

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    yeah, but money still can't equal class but I guess it depends on how you use the word. Anyone who knows who Al Copeland is knows money can't buy class. Yuck. Cheezedog.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Erotictonic, you can overcome your situation. Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was dirt poor and abused by his father, and he was a bastard child (I mean this in the terminology of the time). Didn't stop him from becoming president and freeing the slaves.

    How about Anna Nichole Smith? Sure, she married into her money, but she still broke the socio-economic class barrier.

    Bill Clinton is another good example of that. Oprah Winfrey came from a horrible background, and look at her now. Johnny Cash, Jennifer Lopez, Elvis Presley, Dale Carnegie and the list goes on and on of people who started with less than nothing and really made something of their lives.

    Adolf Hitler was once homeless and starving and was saved by the kindness of (get this) Jews!! So even a sociopath can get ahead in this world if he/she is determined enough.

    If you just look a little you will find tons of "rags to riches" stories about how anyone can make it in America, if they really want to.

    First you have to fix what is keeping you down (yourself) then everything else will fall into place. Sure, you got a rough start, but Ol' Abe was starved and beaten by his folks, and see how he overcame his problems.
    Last edited by Paris; 03-25-2006 at 04:00 PM.

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    Banned All Good Things's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    I was born into the lower class, and I was also born a genius. Who's to say that someone from the lower class has any fucking chance? I didn't. My dad hated me from the word go. I went to high class parties and got raped.
    ET, so many of your posts just simply break my heart. I can't imagine what it would be like for a father to hate his daughter. My little girl is the very center of my life. I can't even imagine my life without her.

    I was also born into the lower class. I remember what it was like to be hungry, cold and scared with parents who were more interested in their next drink than providing for their children. When my mother was drunk, she used to make the girls and me stand still, hands at our side, and slap us in the face repeatedly to break our will. My adoptive father was much, much worse. He had a larger choice of weapons, including belts, lamp cords and fists, and would use them on us. I learned to protect my sisters with every ounce of strength I had.

    I was determined to escape this madness. My high school teachers literally saved my life. They spotted me early on and pushed me to the limit. My public high-school friends, all brilliant, would take no shit from me -- either I could perfectly ace a Russian exam and calculus quiz on the same day -- drunk, high or sober -- or I was not worthy of their attention. Intense peer pressure crushed me into something more diamond than coal. Failure was not an option. I remember being terrified of getting a "B" on a test because my friends may never have talked to me again.

    We are all terribly flawed in our own ways. Every time I imagine that I may be successful in most ways society values -- money, position, influence, fame, even physical appearance (the wonders of plastic surgery, a little hint of my insecurities) -- I remember I'm at my roots I'm a dark, obsessive, driven, insecure little boy with intimate knowledge of violence and a powerful psychological drive to protect and cherish women. I bond to dancers so well that I can't even begin to explain it. (P.S. Dancers are the other people who have saved my life. Different thread.)

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    There are definite class distinctions. Intelligence does not matter.
    Trust me, intelligence matters. Life is hard enough without having to endure all the twists and turns as a stupid and clueless twit.

    But oh God, it's not enough. I so wish I could go back and talk to myself at age 17. Tell myself that obsessing over a "B" was a collosal waste of time, and hinting that some day I would be bigger than my adoptive father. And, yes, I should focus more on the cheerleader who was sweet on me, even though I was a hopeless geek whose friends would not let me get near her.

  13. #13
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I would like to recommend Dr. Laura's book Bad Childhood, Good Life for anyone who is still struggling with issues from childhood. It's a really great look at putting all that crap behind you and moving on as a happy adult.

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    You're not imagining that people with either more money or more powerful social contacts have an advantage but don't let all of that stop you. Think about it and if you decide you want some of that you can make a plan to get it! There's plenty of great books out there to teach you all the money management habits of the rich. There's plenty of great books to teach you how to network with powerful people. So, their advantages aren't something you can never have. Don't let starting in a deficit become defeatism. Life is a marathon so get your long range plan together and 20 years later, on your yacht you'll see I was right!

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    In my experience, there are only two classes of people in this world:

    Those that sit around blaming everyone else for their situation, while expecting complete enablement or outward accountability for any form of growth.

    and..

    Those that actually do something about their situation, have inward accountability and don't expect complete enablement for their own growth.


    Intelligence, to me, is a measurement of how much one leans and understands those two places. After all, someone that knows astrophysics and quantum engineering, yet sits in the ghetto all day on welfare complaining of where he's at but never doing anything about it isn't what I consider very intelligent.

    What varies is what head-start people get, as well as the difficulty of opportunities presented to them. Some people get a crappy start and no opportunities (figure a child born in Africa with HIV) while others get a huge head start and thousands of easy opportunities (born with a multi-million inheritance and family that operates major businesses). Most people land somewhere in the middle.

    Where we wind up at is a product of understanding this principle, then doing the work needed towards every opportunity that may present itself or that we work to form. If we consume any time in a jealous finger-pointing way towards those that started with more, or have to do less work to achieve the same- we're responsible for our own stagnation. If we let opportunities pass us by, then it's our own fault for missing/failing opportunities. If we let our starting point be our excuse for missing them, then we are not very intelligent.

    Just my $0.02.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    I was born into the lower class, and I was also born a genius. Who's to say that someone from the lower class has any fucking chance? I didn't. My dad hated me from the word go. I went to high class parties and got raped.

    There are definite class distinctions. Intelligence does not matter.

    What do you think about classes? I believe in a world based on merits. What do you think?
    That's not true in the least. You are an exception, sadly. The fact is that people with low intelligence are many times more likely to be incarcerated or fail in life. Here's a good article about that on the off-chance that you are interested:

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson...encefactor.pdf

    I didn't have horrible parents. But they weren't good. They put food on the table, clothes on our backs, and a provided a roof over our heads. But they wouldn't lift a finger to help us out in life any other way.

    Life is what you make of it. Some people are naturally going to have advantages that others don't, such as highly attractive people having an easier time getting a good job, etc. Unfortunately, some people, women in particular, take a bad situation and make it so much worse by engaging in self-destructive behavior.

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    i dont agree with you at all.

    my father was beaten all his life till he graduated college
    they didnt have running water or electricity in the house and still dont today
    my father didnt have any monetary support at all either

    he worked hard and is now a VP at ExxonMobil.

    we live in a huge house and send money back to his parents and family.

    if he can make it, i believe anyone can in this world if they try hard enough.

    being born into poverty doesn't mean your going to be poor. especially in our country. People come here barely alive in rafts made from garbage and earn an honest living.

    in my honest opinion, if you dont have a decent job then its your own fault.
    yeah baby I know it

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    Senior Member LittleLina's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but this book is awesome:
    Where we stand, Class Matters by Bell Hooks
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/041...Fencoding=UTF8

  19. #19
    Sitri
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    Well, being in the lower class is certainly not the fault of the children who are born there. My mom was divorced with 4 kids living in a 4 room house in a small town.

    I remember being the only one in class not invited to birthday parties. Without going into all of the shit the happens. Thank God I was born with brains and ambition.

    There is some truth that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    the difference between the haves and the have nots:

    The haves have jus as many problems, but they seem to keep pushing, keep going, and strive to make it.

    The have nots sit and complain about how life is unfair and that they are "victims". It's never their fault, it's "society" the "unfair" circumstances they were born into, etc.

    The mindset and personal drive to succeed (or fail) means that it goes both ways. Some people have it all and lose it, some have nothing and gain it.

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    Default Re: The Lower Class - Who's At Fault?

    I too am pretty sharp but was born into debilitating circumstances. For me, my family wasnt so much a poor one, but I grew up in a very small rural comunity that was very ignorant and close-minded. There was an active KKK in my town and anyone who did not attend the main baptist church in this mainly-baptist community was viewed with suspicion and harassed by cops or school officials. In my small town, it was not uncommon for the cops to come to high school parties with all the baptist kids and get drunk. I guess there were lots of young girls that thought country cops with their uniforms and squad cars were hot.
    corrupton was rife, and intolerance ruled the day.
    i moved there when i was 5, from Houston. I wish we would have stayed there where i could have had more opportunity to develop, instead of being thrown backwards in time to that horrible tiny place.
    i do not go about complaining about it. people who meet me are always impressed at the things ive done and the places ive gone so I would say that my childhood circumstances did not destroy my independent mind, but how severely was i limited when i could have blossomed!
    additionally, i did not learn the best social skills, because i was largely an outcast and kept to myself in school.
    so while i make an excellent friend, im no good at keeping them around. i think thats why im so good at dancing! im really good at making people like me A WHOLE LOT at first, but if we hung out for a few weeks, they would just drift away.
    anyway... yes this is a complaint but thats what this topic is about! i do not ask for pity, its made me a strong person.
    but intelligence is very often strangled and inhibited by the circumstances of your birth.
    i still have good options available for my future, but they pale in comparison to what acquaintances of mine that i have met in college were able to do.
    where i grew up, there was prayer in school every day, ashocking racism could be heard everywhere, in schools and at the store. gay people were literally run out of town.
    sooo erotictonic.....
    all i can say is, you're never gonna be able to change your childhood, but let it make you stronger and accept the more difficult options that yet remain. struggle for it!
    love...
    -k

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