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Thread: follow-up to duke rape case

  1. #101
    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist
    There was a great kid who was depressed over the death of his best friend and sought psychological help and was expelled.
    Optimist: Can you share more about this story? Was it Duke?


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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Some one just called me and told me that the new word out is there is no DNA because she WAS raped with the broom handle. Makes perfect sense and is utterly deplorable.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    My professor, the head of the social work department today, told that class that "first, lets be clear I'm not blaming the victim... but she definitely had some responsibility for what happened to her"! Then the whole class agreed with her, and were saying that the girl was asking for it because she went back into the party and because she was a "stripper, I mean exotic dancer." When I said that she'd just gone in to get her shoes this girl turned around and told me that, "you don't just forget your shoes in a party, trust me." Then the professor told me that I was wrong because the girl wasn't a stripper, she was an exotic dancer. And I'm paying for this education!



  4. #104
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    I was assaulted at a bachelor party once, it was really traumatic. This girl is very brave for what she has been through. I never did anything about it because it was my culpability for being there wasted and not paying attention, but what she went through was gruesome in comparison, I hope that justice is served.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    AZ, the guy I was talking about went to another university. All of them have a general code of conduct and I was salty that it's so inconsistently applied from one school to another, one school officer to another, etc. His story was on recently and I thought it was sad that he was expelled because he was afraid of being a danger to himself. (He wasn't) He's now suing his former school. But then this kid is actually charged by police with assault up in DC and gets to attend school anyway?! Crazy!

  6. #106
    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Optimist,

    Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, it sucks to see glaringly different sets of standards.

    By the way, if it makes anyone feel any better. It is pretty much guaranteed that the players in question are suspended from the school. The university gave an artfully worded announcement today which pretty much states it without holding the university open to lawsuits by the parents.

    Finally, court documents released today offer the addresses of the parents. I google earthed up images of them: Mansions on golf courses.

    By the way Kat & Lena - so sorry to hear about what both of you had to go through. I can't imagine what it's like to have to go through that stuff.


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  7. #107
    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    ^^^^^"Finally, court documents released today offer the addresses of the parents. I google earthed up images of them: Mansions on golf courses."


    Sweet Geezus, that is crazy, crazy, crazy!! Can you imagine what was going through these creeps' minds when they were planning to bring these girls in. Do you think that they planned to do these things (e.g., if the broomstick thing is true, they knew no DNA would be present)? This really scares me.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    now that indibtments have been served, this case is going to hell in a handbasket very quickly. From the initial 'uber-rich white college students rape poor black single mother' media angle, the indibtments have opened the door for the public introduction of all sorts of evidence that the college students might not actually be guilty, that the dancer has a previous criminal record, that the dancer's personal life was an absolute mess etc. Some media is now working the angle that the dancer is simply a 'stereotype' stripper who lied through her teeth in an effort to extract a settlement from the uber-rich white 'customers'.



    Please understand that I'm not making any comments whatsoever in regard to the specifics of this case ... but pointing out that the widespread media coverage is now spreading/reinforcing the 'stereotype' that dancers are lying, thieving, drug addicted whores who will say or do anything for a buck.

    If this court case finally turns out failing to convict the college guys, on the heels of the Kobe Bryant case, I'm very concerned that this will lead to law enforcement simply refusing to believe the future statements of exotic dancers that crimes were committed against them without hard evidence being provided by the dancer to back up the charge.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    nbut pointing out that the widespread media coverage is now spreading/reinforcing the 'stereotype' that dancers are lying, thieving, drug addicted whores who will say or do anything for a buck.
    Like the athletes aren't ... they are the rapists! This society is so fucked up it makes me want to throw up. When are we gonna get smarter? A crime is a crime, no matter who commits it, and it doesn't matter who is the victim... why can't we see this? It's simple logic. Crime committed, person victimized, criminal prosecuted. It's not that hard. When it is cut down to those simple terms, then the US will be getting somewhere. You can tell I'm a liberal lol.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    However this case turns out, it has really brought light to a sick double standard we have in our society. Rich people can do anything and get away with it. They can drink and drive, do drugs and nothing sticks! They can do all that and still become president! Think of some everyday poor kid who is arrested with a little pot. He/she gets a permanent record that never goes away. Youthful indescretions for the rich=a okay, but anyone else who does the same or even lessor crimes is forever a criminal!

    And to think of how often date rapes occur and go unpunished in that sort of environment. How no woman wants her name drug through the mud when some rich rapist is going to say that she lied for money. Many of these rich people who have never had a difficult day in their life have have lost touch with what it's like to be human. They have no sympathy, no understanding. They see other people as scum asking for handouts, yet fail to realize that they themself are only where they are because they got a handout from mommy and daddy!!! Sorry for the tangent but this case and all that it implys really sickens me!

  11. #111
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    ^^ be that as it may, the 'real world' is what it is ... most newspaper publishers, lawyers, judges, TV anchormen, lawmakers etc. are 'rich white guys'. As you almost said, a rich white guy can get drunk, drive his car off a bridge, drown his babysitter, leave the scene of the accident, and still be a US Senator (just making the point that this isn't a political issue but a 'class' issue"). As to the 'victim' mentality, the news coverage is beginning to make the case that it was the 'rich white guys' who were victimized by a greedy 'stripper'.

    I wasn't making a judgement as to the ultimate fairness of the Kobe Bryant case or the upcoming LaCrosse case, but merely pointing out the 'real world' future effects of all this negative publicity ... that in the future the word of a 'stripper' accusing a 'fine upstanding citizen' of a criminal act in the absence of hard evidence to back it up will probably result in doubt/disbelief by local cops and prosecutors.

    This will make future crimes committed against dancers much more difficult to prosecute, because every cop and prosecutor is likely to have the thought of 'lying in order to collect a settlement' in the back of their minds. Ironically, this will also make criminal charges levelled against dancers themselves (prostitution, lewd conduct) easier to prosecute based on the same official lack of credibility in the absence of hard evidence to prove their innocence.

  12. #112
    Veteran Member mark45y's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    I read a bunch of stuff about the case. It seems to me that the guys did the crime. There are a lot of blogs talking about that have a bunch of information that has not been mentioned here.

    Apparently the two accused voluntarily went to the police station without lawyers to give statements and offered to take polygraph tests but the police told them they did not want any polygraph tests.

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12115147/site/newsweek/page/2/

    Don’t they give polygraph tests to eliminate subjects as a general rule? Why did the DA refuse to give them polygraph tests?



  13. #113
    Veteran Member Eques's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Because polygraphs are not full proof. People can fake them and get negative results while a good defending lawyer can easily making a positive polygraph test look like shit. Lie detector evidence is pretty much crap.
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  14. #114
    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    ^^^I don't think they hold up in court, either
    This whole thing makes me feel ill...
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    Don’t they give polygraph tests to eliminate subjects as a general rule? Why did the DA refuse to give them polygraph tests?
    No. A polygraph just measures physical reaction to saying something. Anyone who's played around with biofeedback can pass a polygraph easily, as well as anyone who is really confident even if they are lying.



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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Polygraphs provide horrible evidence that can only muddy up the waters.

    By the way, Mark45guy - just to point out two things.

    It wasn't the accused who offered to talk to the police and take a polygraph, it was the three boys who live at the house in question.

    Also, as I found out in my divorce - if the boys attorneys had already notified the police/DA that they represented their clients, then the police and DA are not allowed to talk to them without their attorneys present.

    Anyone who wants to learn a lot about the rules of court/law, etc. should take an afternoon and visit a local courthouse. You'll see lawyers meeting their clients in prearranged locations nowhere near where the police/opposing attorneys are.


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  17. #117
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    1. There *is* DNA evidence; it just didn't match the samples allegedly taken from the players.

    2. That has nothing to do with your apparently baseless accusation that she was a prostitute.

    3. Even if she was a prostitute, which nothing suggests, that has nothing to do with whether she was violated.

    4. The evidence now shows that she was assaulted with an object rather than a penis.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Originaly posted by yekhefah:

    "The evidence now shows that she was assaulted with an object rather than a penis."

    Where is this info?

  19. #119
    Veteran Member Tara Nicole's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by sosoclear
    No Dna Evidence.
    This is the case in 75% of rapes. Rapists now know that using a condom lowers their chances of being caught. I also have heard that there are more DNA tests being done so there may or may not end up being a DNA match inthe case.

    Keep in mind that there is medical evidence as reported by the people who did the rape kit which shows evidence of rape. Also there has been mention of the two women being threatened sexually with use of a broomstick. There are links posted here in this thread that discusses most of what I just mentioned.

  20. #120
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic
    Like the athletes aren't ... they are the rapists! This society is so fucked up it makes me want to throw up. When are we gonna get smarter? A crime is a crime, no matter who commits it, and it doesn't matter who is the victim... why can't we see this? It's simple logic. Crime committed, person victimized, criminal prosecuted. It's not that hard. When it is cut down to those simple terms, then the US will be getting somewhere. You can tell I'm a liberal lol.
    Yes, a crime is a crime - but is the crime rape... or is it extortion?

    There is more and more evidence the guys accused were not even at the party at the time. Maybe she was hoping "the mean looking could-be jerky ones" in the picture line up were there as well "I am going to get you for calling me those names!"

    Google "false rape accusation tawana al sharpton" for more.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    I knew it would come to this... every black woman who accuses a white guy of rape is going to be Tawana Brawley from now on. Greeeeeeeat.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Ladies - only take this for what it is worth.

    There are guys who feel it is their duty to the male sex to (a) take joy when rape cases are undermined and (b) constantly undermine the issue of rape. They feel it is a political issue. And they are right. It is a political issue. They feel that an inherent right to possess women's bodies is being undermined with every successful rape conviction. Again, they are right. It is. You are not going to change their minds on this, and trying to rid the internet of stupidity and misogyny, let alone racism, is a grinding and thankless task. You are only working yourselves up.

    P.S. - all the guys who want to raise their hands and say "but not all guys are like that..." - I know.
    All the guys who want to raise their hands and say "I am like that, but it's different because I'm right" personally, I would beg you not to bother.
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    Featured Member francescadubois's Avatar
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    If I hear Tawana Brawley's name again, I'm gonna scream. Whenever someone brings this up, it makes me aware that it IS about race and most people DO see race. If I get raped by a white guy tomorrow I guess I shouldn't report it, since Tawana Brawley paved the way for my getting dissed/ignored by law enforcement. You're sending a real nice message to minority women.

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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    My professor, the head of the social work department today, told that class that "first, lets be clear I'm not blaming the victim... but she definitely had some responsibility for what happened to her"! Then the whole class agreed with her, and were saying that the girl was asking for it because she went back into the party and because she was a "stripper, I mean exotic dancer." When I said that she'd just gone in to get her shoes this girl turned around and told me that, "you don't just forget your shoes in a party, trust me." Then the professor told me that I was wrong because the girl wasn't a stripper, she was an exotic dancer. And I'm paying for this education!
    I hope you marched yourself right over to the office to report that professor! What a horrible, biased, offensive thing to say! As for that girl who told you "you don't just forget your shoes in a party, trust me"... What did you do? Did you ask her why the fuck you should trust her? Is she a leaving-shoes-at-parties expert or something? I've forgotten PLENTY of shit at parties (that I wasn't dancing at) before.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

  25. #125
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    Default Re: follow-up to duke rape case

    So this is what I am hearing:

    1) They danced for like 4 minutes and and then demanded $800.00. They didn't get it. I think I know a couple of pissed off strippers.

    2) They made a 911 call about racist remarks - but mentioned nothing about being raped. Hmmm. I wonder how one can forget about that?!?!

    3) There are pictures showing the alleged victim smiling after the alleged rape. There are pictures showing she was already scraped up upon coming to the house.

    4) Some evidence she was drunk off her ass.

    5) She is accusing people who were quite unlikely to have even been at the party at the time of the rape and have PROOF they weren't there.

    Things are not looking good for her.

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