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Thread: Why don't they get it?

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    Veteran Member mark45y's Avatar
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    Default Why don't they get it?

    Why don’t they get it?

    I just finished reading a customer club survey. The highest single complaint was loud inappropriate music. The customers seem to get it. Music played at moderate levels to allow conversation and some kind of mini relationship to develop to make a decision for a lap dance or series of lap dances.

    Low hustle and a little personality showed to make a lap dance decision.

    Dancing expertise and complicated dance routines don’t contribute any sizeable percent to a lap dance decision.

    DJ’s making jokes and hustling tee shirts are a negative aspect of strip clubs.

    Sex, either actual or implied be it contact or non contact is what makes a lap dance decision.

    Lap dancing money is a significant income producer for clubs. Why do so few employees have no clue about the relationship between music and lap dances?

    If I have to pay $10 for one drink or $10 for two drinks which is it in the best interest of the club to pursue? The club cost for two drinks of bar whiskey is about .40 cents. .

    The two drinks obviously. The drunker I get the more lap dances. That 40 or 80 cents is going to generate a potential of 20 to 100 bucks in laps.

    If I have to pay a $20 cover and the bimbo at the door expects a tip is this good business for the club?

    My wallet as is everyone else’s finite. The club should want to get the most booze in me as possible so I will buy more lap dances.

    High hustle, high covers, high music volume, high drink prices are a sure formula for club failure.

    Why is it managers, Dj’s and dancers don’t realize this?

    Are the ladies still laboring under the assumption that they are exotic dancers instead of lap dance sales people? Are they that out of date?

    It reminds me of the guy who sells one less hamburger every day and his response is to raise the price so his profit stays the same.

    But it’s not just America. I am going to Pattaya next week to take a look at a couple of clubs for sale. The season is over there now and the prices are coming down on the clubs that committed the mistakes outlined above.

    There are about 500 clubs in Pattaya that employee females as dancers or quasi dancers. Pattaya is a small town about the size of Boulder Colorado it makes Bangkok look like a Sunday school city.

    Out of those 500 clubs maybe 20 are run well. And those 20 make a ton of money by anyone’s standards.

    The management acts with such haughty indifference it always amazes me. They assume the customers are such idiots. There are over 20 websites that deal with nothing but Pattaya night life. The word gets out about clubs in microseconds. About management changes where the hot women have gone who has the best stage shows and what the drink prices are and who is charging a cover and who is padding the bills or conducting other rip off scams.

    The Russian clubs are even more poorly managed than the American style clubs but the novelty of natural blonds is still carrying some market share. They are trying to introduce lap dancing here which has been pretty much of a disaster.




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    God/dess mr_punk's Avatar
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    Default Nickleback sucks!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    High hustle, high covers, high music volume, high drink prices are a sure formula for club failure. Why is it managers, Dj’s and dancers don’t realize this?
    in a way, customers are like strippers. there aren't enough non-retarded customers willing to make sc economically pay for their stupidity. quite the opposite, the fact of the matter is that most customers are willing to put up with quite a bit of BS from a sc.
    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    The management acts with such haughty indifference it always amazes me. They assume the customers are such idiots.
    well, that's because most customers are idiots.
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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    You make several salient point mark, except for in regards to the customers as idiots point. But my boy punk schooled you there.

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    Featured Member GenWar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    QUOTE=mark45y:
    DJ’s making jokes and hustling tee shirts are a negative aspect of strip clubs.
    ---------------------------------

    You know, I *like* DJs. I think they can be overboard but I like the idea that someone is putting thought into which songs are good and which are bad. I enjoy the interaction that you can have with them. ("Here's $5. There's another $5 if you can play Red Hot Chili Peppers and not piss off the dancer. I'll make it $10 if it is 'Rollercoaster of Love'"). DJs can be a good time, especially if you are drunk.

    That said, a lot of clubs do not train or control their DJs. They allow a LOT of talking, ostensibly as a means of controlling the dance line-up. They let it be intrusive, when it doesn't have to be.

    One high mileage club I got to (don't lose it, I go to see ONE girl and that is only because she is the absolute best sales person I have ever met in this business) has no DJ at all. They have a list of girls on the wall near the DR with the rotation and they have a sound system (I think it is a randomizer of MP3s that have been specially selected for club play.) And they manage. Every girl knows when she goes on, no one misses the stage and there is no drama. It can be done.

    The DJ is NOT a necessity. I think if a lot of club owners and DJs realized this, they would be a much better participant in the system.

    -gen

    P.S. For God's Sake, STOP playing Nickleback!
    "See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_punk
    the fact of the matter is that most customers are willing to put up with quite a bit of BS from a sc.
    Tis true. Of course, if I were to set my threshold for bullshit tolerance on hair trigger, I'd never buy a dance. Hell, I'd probably never walk in.

    You got to admit, SC owners have a clever little racket going on. If the economy is good, customers will buy overpriced drinks, lap dances and CR's. If its poor, there will be a lot of unemployed attractive females looking to pay $25+ to work a shift at their establishment.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar


    One high mileage club I got to has no DJ at all. They have a list of girls on the wall near the DR with the rotation and they have a sound system (I think it is a randomizer of MP3s that have been specially selected for club play.) And they manage. Every girl knows when she goes on, no one misses the stage and there is no drama. It can be done.

    The DJ is NOT a necessity. I think if a lot of club owners and DJs realized this, they would be a much better participant in the system.

    -gen

    well gen, obviously you've never talked to a DJ on here. they are the most important people in the club and i might add, have one of the 3 hardest jobs in the world and dont let anyone tell you otherwise

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    Veteran Member mark45y's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    There was a time I would have bought the argument. One night my DJ did not show up. As the owner/manager of the club I had to find a replacement. I asked everyone but got no takers.

    So I had to fill in for the DJ who I was paying big bucks.

    1. It was easy. 2. I enjoyed it. 3. The next day I fired my DJ who didn’t show up and hired a kid from a record store at $5 an hour bucks an hour.

    The only people who DJ’s are important to are DJ’s and the silly immature women who think they contribute something to their earnings.

    The only thing about the job that is hard is in the mind of the DJ.

    There is no bottom line responsibility.

    It is little above the piss boy except in the mind of the DJ and teen strippers or strippers who have the emotional age of teens.

    Music does not sell lap dances.

    Simple coordination of shift changes and or VIP room usage is not rocket science.

    I could hire an 8 year old to perform the same tasks.

    Strippers are dumb. They think that they should pay 2 or 3 hundred a night (cumulatively) to some oaf who does nothing more than put in CD’s and not page them when they are grinding some crotch.

    Face it ladies what do you want? Music you like played when you get on stage and not calling you on stage when you are lap dancing. For that you tip $20? You are nuts. A monkey could do that.



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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    there are some clubs where dj's have to arrange stage rotations and coordinated the dancers music, collect house fees, answer a phone, maybe check id's at the door. so yes, i can see at times you could be busy. ive dj'd(not in a strip club) and its a matter of organization. if you're organized, its a lot easier than if you're not organized. so basically any dj that says his job is incredibly tough and that us custie's dont understand or appreciate it, just sucks at being a dj basically.

    now in the defence of some of the dj members here, not all of the above mentioned attitude. two paticular dj's come to mind(both heavily opinionated, but thats what i like about them). so some of the guys get it, others dont. its not a hard job, just a job that requires you to be organized and pay attention. and christ, how tough can any job be when you're paid to look at tits all day? :-P

    with regards to club management/ownership, they focus on maximizing they're return.... in the short run. they always try to squeeze out as much cash as possible on THIS visit. which works in an industry like this where there is often a lot of regulation(prohibitive to starting up compitition) and where the customers put up with it. however, im sure the ones that provide a better value to the customer fair better in the long run(5 or more years down the road).

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    At the club I worked in Jacksonville, the lapdance room just had an mp3 player, and since the room was seperate, slower songs, and genre such as R&B, could be played. I enjoyed that.

    OTOH, the showroom on the other side of the bar had stages with poles, faster paced music, and a DJ to energize the crowd. I also like that approach, it keeps the club a stripclub and not just a dryhump brothel.

    If maximization of earnings was the only factor in this game, then we would also be full-time whores. Instead, for our own reasons, we chose to be a different type of sex worker. Thus, the club is born.

    A lot of DJ's aren't paid by the clubs as well. And it always seems to be the good ones I liked rather than the pricks....

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    Featured Member red red red's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Mark, I've been following your threads on the pink side. I think that you make some
    interesting points. What you keep failing to understand, however, is that what a customer would theoretically like to happen in a strip club and what makes a customer spend money in a strip club are two very different things.

    If you could learn one thing from your dancers, it should be that customers enjoy not getting what they would theoretically like. That's sort of the whole point, isn't it? If you don't understand this principle, you'd be better off running a Bunny Ranch-style incall club.

    I'm new to the blue side, and if I'm out of line responding to this, feel free to say so. But...
    I think most people who frequent strip clubs come in because they enjoy the excitement of feeling out of their element. They're stimulated by hearing music they've never heard before, the challenge of bargaining with a high-hustle salesgirl, paying entirely too much or too little for god knows what, and leaving unsure of what even happened. This is in a nutshell the "exotic" nature of the industry. Think back to dancing girls traveling with carnivals... it's supposed to be, on some level, more of an experience than a hard-and-fast product.

    If you're not literally selling sex at your clubs, the experience aspect is what should be in focus. This is why girls spend a lot of time perfecting their stage shows whether or not the stage shows make them more money. This is why the "door bimbo" gets a tip and the DJ is paid to narrate the whole thing like a carnival barker. Strip clubs are an escapist fantasy of luxury, leisure, and just enough vice for the customer to feel like he's taking a walk on the wild side without getting arrested.

    If you run a strip club like a McDonald's, it's not going to be much fun for anyone, regardless of what you learned from this survey you read. Your dancers won't be happy, your customers won't be happy, and you'll still be wondering why your club sucks.

    Am I alone in thinking that customers come for something a bit more ephemeral than "lap dance salespeople?"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Featured Member GenWar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    QUOTE=red red red:
    Am I alone in thinking that customers come for something a bit more ephemeral than "lap dance salespeople?"
    ----------------------
    Certainly not, red. This has long been an argument of mine. There are those who would disagree but I certainly agree.

    Of course, a DJ CAN enhance the experience. The question you have to ask yourself is, IS he/she (I haven't ever seen a she but it takes all kinds, right?)

    I know clubs that I frequest IN SPITE of the DJ as the DJ ALWAYS does a shitty job. ALWAYS. I have also tipped a DJ $50 because I judged his enhancement of my eperience to be worth that. (I was VERY, VERY drunk when I made that judgement, for the record.) These are the extremes and you will see everything in between. Go with what is working.

    Now, the same is true for red's point. There are some customers who are going for the "experience". There are others whose goals are more...practical. You have to cater to them all. I know personally, I am very esoteric. I won't ask for a dance. I won't spend money during Nickleback (Fucking Nickleback.) I will spend time, money and effort on a dancer who never gives me a dance. I am weird, I accept this. Still, there are others who are weird in their own ways. If you are not creating a general enough experience, then you are limiting your clientele. This is never a good thing to do UNCONSIOUSLY in any business.

    -gen
    "See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno

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    Veteran Member mark45y's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Dear Red Red Red.

    One of the major differences in clubs in the States and other parts of the world is that men get what the want in most parts of the world. Prozac is the answer in the US. Women are the answer in a large portion of the world. Spain is a good example as is Brazil or Costa Rica.

    I honestly believe you like paying for something you are not getting in a strip club. I have met people like that. My ex wives all thought I was like that. It is surprising how many women think men are like that.

    I assume strip clubs are the only industry you think men enjoy paying for something you don’t get. Perhaps one should take it a step further and when they order a drink don’t put in any booze.

    I think your reasons for going to a club i.e. getting ripped off, hustled and teased in a Carney environment while listening to music you have never heard before may be legitimate for you but I think you are in a small minority of customers.

    I think if you look at TUSCL and read the top ten clubs most frequently viewed at by customers or potential customers you will find the list is as follows:
    1. Treasures Houston
    2. Rick’s Seattle
    3. Playhouse lounge NJ
    4. Ybor strip Tampa
    5. Adelita bar Mexico
    6. Mitchell’s O’Farrell SF
    7 Mons Venus Tampa
    8. Olympic Gardens LV
    9. Club Fantasies RI
    10. 2001 Tampa

    What do the above clubs have in common? Everyone in the business knows that is a list of the top ten clubs in North America both by customer count and profitability (some exceptions to this on that list).

    Everyone in the business knows that is a list of the top ten high mileage clubs in the US.

    Everyone in the business knows that is a list of the top ten clubs for dancer earnings.

    Everyone in the business knows that is a list of the top ten clubs that most closely resemble the Bunny Ranch.

    TUSCL also has a list of the bottom 10 clubs in the US. If you read the reviews, high hustle, high drink prices and air dances. Those are the clubs for you.

    However the overwhelming majority of strip club patrons prefer the top ten list.



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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y

    ......

    I think if you look at TUSCL and read the top ten clubs most frequently viewed at by customers or potential customers you will find the list is as follows:
    1. Treasures Houston
    2. Rick’s Seattle
    3. Playhouse lounge NJ
    4. Ybor strip Tampa
    5. Adelita bar Mexico
    6. Mitchell’s O’Farrell SF
    7 Mons Venus Tampa
    8. Olympic Gardens LV
    9. Club Fantasies RI
    10. 2001 Tampa

    .......

    Everyone in the business knows that is a list of the top ten clubs that most closely resemble the Bunny Ranch.

    TUSCL also has a list of the bottom 10 clubs in the US. If you read the reviews, high hustle, high drink prices and air dances. Those are the clubs for you.

    However the overwhelming majority of strip club patrons prefer the top ten list.....
    That assumes that the people that have replied to the survey are representative of strip club patrons in general. If they aren't, then the results are not statistically valid.

    I live close to London in the UK, and am fully aware of where high contact/full service lap dance can be had. I have zero interest in that type of lap dance and zero interest in responding to any sort of poll about them. If there are a lot more people with my attitude about, then that will bias the result of any on-line poll.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar
    I won't spend money during Nickleback (Fucking Nickleback.)
    Damn, gen. Does Nickleback owe you money or something?

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    God/dess mr_punk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    You got to admit, SC owners have a clever little racket going on. If the economy is good, customers will buy overpriced drinks, lap dances and CR's. If its poor, there will be a lot of unemployed attractive females looking to pay $25+ to work a shift at their establishment.
    sure, a sc owner would truly have to be pretty brain-damaged (yeah, i know) not to make any money. he'll make it off the customers in the ways that you mentioned or he'll make it off the strippers. strippers are source of cheap, disposable labor. they may call themselves independent contractors, but the fact of the matter is that sc don't always treat them as such and strippers are willing to put up with it. furthermore, it's not just the sc industry. it's the whole sex industry across the board. it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal. one can put out a sub-par or inferior product and still make money. simply because many customers are willing to pay for that inferior product.
    Quote Originally Posted by red red red
    If you could learn one thing from your dancers, it should be that customers enjoy not getting what they would theoretically like. That's sort of the whole point, isn't it? If you don't understand this principle, you'd be better off running a Bunny Ranch-style incall club.
    you mean like Treasures? it's a big sc/whorehouse that does a lot of business. now, i'm sure there are customers who go there to enjoy not getting what they want. however, there are also customers who go there to get exactly what they want and the sc can deliver the goods.
    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I honestly believe you like paying for something you are not getting in a strip club. I have met people like that. My ex wives all thought I was like that.
    ditto...LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I assume strip clubs are the only industry you think men enjoy paying for something you don’t get. Perhaps one should take it a step further and when they order a drink don’t put in any booze.
    i hope a sc owner isn't reading this statement. i can just imagine him raising an eyebrow and rubbing his chin and saying, "hmmmmmm...interesting".
    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I think your reasons for going to a club i.e. getting ripped off, hustled and teased in a Carney environment while listening to music you have never heard before may be legitimate for you but I think you are in a small minority of customers.
    actually, i think she raises a legitimate point. so, perhaps their willingness to continually pay for bad service and rip-offs fits in with some sick need. still, that doesn't explain why they come on SCJ to whine about it.
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Mark: You are making some good points here but you are also making some assumptions.

    I go to clubs for a lot of different reasons and I actually spend more money in lower contact clubs and on lower contact dancers than I do on extras girls. Am I a typical customer? I don't really know since I don't pay much attention to what other guys are doing. I'm never alone at my table for more than about 30 seconds so I must be doing something right.

    I don't really give a rats ass about stage shows at this point. I don't care for 90% of the music that gets played in clubs but hey, I stopped buying "new" music in 1990 or so. I don't go to the club to listen to music but I do agree that a lot of what the DJ's play is counterproductive to selling dances. And it's almost always too damn loud. The idiot daytime DJ at my current favorite club doesn't turn the music down when he calls the next set. None of the dancers can hear their names being called creating a clusterfuck of empty stages or girls having to stay onstage after their set waiting for the next girl. This is the most important part of his job and he can't handle it.

    Club Fantasies (on the TUSCL top ten list) is no where near the highest mileage in Providence. You can drive a mile and get FS at Cheaters for about $130 - the same price as a 15 minute VIP it Fantasies where the girl may not even remove her G. Trust me, you are never going to see Cheaters on the top ten because it's a dive that smells like a peep show booth half the time. Club Fantasies charges the highest Lap Dance prices in Providence and has the highest drink prices. Why are they in the top ten? Because they consitently have the highest number of beautiful women with just enough trashy ladies mixed in to keep it interesting. The DJ's are non-offensive, the music in not too loud and there are no stupid t-shirt dances. Providence clubs draw a huge amount of their business from the Boston area since the clubs around Boston mostly suck. Every guy, or group of guys, that drives down there is not looking for a blow job, they are just looking to have a good time.

    I never turn down a nice high-mileage ld from a hot woman with a great personality but I don't go looking for strictly mileage and I don't think I'm alone in this. There are a lot of ways to make good money as a dancer. As a whole I think dancers are a lot smarter than club owners. I've seen women figure out ways to make good money in almost any SC environment. This often requires an amazing amount of creativity, talent and plain old street smarts. Most club owners simply unlock the door and hope for the best. When things are slow they raise house fees, fines and tip-outs and force the dancers to do 2 for 1 specials. They rarely do anything to promote the club other than buying another generic sounding 30 second radio spot that invariably runs after midnight when nobody is listening to the radio...unless they are driving home from a strip club.
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    Featured Member red red red's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    First of all, Mark, I am in the industry. I'm a dancer from over on the pink side.

    What gives you the impression that the top ten money-making clubs in the U.S. (and I'm not sure I'm convinced you even know these are the top ten money-making clubs in the US from your TUSCL stats) are low hustle? Because they're high-mileage?

    If anything, hustle gets harder as the mileage raises, and the customer spends less money at the club because he knows he'll get what he wants right away. I mean, how many times can one get jerked off or grinded to the point of orgasm at the strip club in one night? And if the dancers are all competing to be a customer's happy ending, I can promise you that they're not going to be low-hustle about it.

    You're gonna be broke. Sorry, but you are.
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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I honestly believe you like paying for something you are not getting in a strip club. I have met people like that. My ex wives all thought I was like that. It is surprising how many women think men are like that.
    Mark, I know this may come as a shock, but I go to a strip club to be entertained. If I wanted to be serviced, I'd take my business to an entity that specializes in "servicing".

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I assume strip clubs are the only industry you think men enjoy paying for something you don’t get.
    You've obviously never been gambling. And with respect to gambling, its funny this thread would come up. I think I found the casino business eqivalant of the very argument that Mark is making here.

    http://www.dicesetter.com/irish/irisharticle331.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    Perhaps one should take it a step further and when they order a drink don’t put in any booze.
    Oh, they've already thought of that. Buy a girl a "dancer drink" sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    I think if you look at TUSCL and read the top ten clubs most frequently viewed at by customers or potential customers you will find the list is as follows: blah, blah, blah...

    TUSCL also has a list of the bottom 10 clubs in the US. If you read the reviews, high hustle, high drink prices and air dances. Those are the clubs for you.
    That ratings system at TUSCL is next to worthless because a club's rating is dependent on the subjective opinions of those who write the reviews. I've noticed that some reviewers tend to give numbers in comparison to other clubs in their city/region, not against all strip clubs in the U.S. or in the world.

    And they'll give anyone credit for any review. Hell, I think Deja Voodoo almost single handedly got two clubs in Puerto Rico into the top five once just by reviewing them over and over. And as far as the bottom list goes, some of the clubs there are on that list for reasons unrelated if not opposite of what you're whining about. They're there because they are dumps, because there is no hustle, because the dancers there are nasty looking, etc.

    However the overwhelming majority of strip club patrons prefer the top ten list.
    Yeah, probably so. That's why they're in the top ten.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Doc-catfish,

    That’s why I chose the most viewed section instead of the ratings section. The top ten I listed were simply the most viewed clubs and had nothing to do with ratings.

    I think the viewed stat is valid while I would also question the rating system.

    I think if you read my post you will see the above plainly stated.

    Your gambling analogy is interesting but not accurate. I am a crap shooter. I do OK. I know exactly what the odds are. Bet the pass line on a new shooter and I have a slight advantage over the house. The next roll the house has a slight advantage over me.

    Sure the majority of the field is made up by suckers. But they don’t like loosing. What the other poster was suggesting is that the strip suckers like loosing.

    It does not come as a shock to me that you go to a strip club to be entertained. I do however think you are in a minority.



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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Red Red Red,

    To be honest I only have experience with five of the clubs on that list. Four out of the five are low hustle. Or at least what I consider low hustle.

    I think the main motivating factor of a clubs popularity is a combination of extra availability, good looking women and reasonable prices.

    If all of the clubs in the market area have extra availability and good looking women and reasonable prices then it becomes a matter of music and/or stage shows.

    It is like the success formula for restaurants. If you have great food at reasonable prices everything else can be wrong and you will make money.

    In a strip club if you have good looking women and extras at a reasonable price you can do everything else wrong and you will make money.



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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    In a strip club if you have good looking women and extras at a reasonable price you can do everything else wrong and you will make money.
    Yes. You will make money. The good looking dancers who don't do extras will not, and they'll move on to a club where they can. Gradually, you'll have to fill up your schedule with dancers who aren't as good looking just to keep your floor full, your big-spending customers will follow the good-looking dancers to wherever they're working, and your business will eventually decrease. This is a tried-and-true, fast, and easy way to run your club into the ground.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Treasure's in Houston is definately a high hustle club. Now, its not a "wanna dance" type of high-hustle, but the girls there sharply move in for the kill.

    My first, and only, night at Treasure's I was making the rounds when some guy stopped me and told me that I was obviously hustling, and that girls don't do that there to make money. He then showed me high big thick black AMEX card, bought me a drink, and told me he would pay me to bounce up and down on his dick, but not for dances. That set the entire tone of the night, because each guy was essentially the same. You'd better BELIEVE that the dancers have to hustle guys like that....not all of the girls do extras there, but most of them will say they do it to fullfill and expectation...


    ...and what custy is going to brag to his friends that he paid $100 and didn't actually get his dick sucked at TREASURES....see my point??

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45y
    That’s why I chose the most viewed section instead of the ratings section. The top ten I listed were simply the most viewed clubs and had nothing to do with ratings.
    Alright then, lets look at that list, in fact I'll state clubs that I've either been too or know about really well. I'll go a little further and use the entire Top 40.

    6. Cheetah's - Las Vegas (high prices, high hustle)
    8. Olympic Garden - Las Vegas (high prices, high hustle)
    9. Baby Dolls - Dallas (high prices, high hustle)
    14. Spearmint Rhino - Las Vegas (high prices, high hustle)
    15. Crazy Horse Too - Las Vegas (high prices, high hustle)

    And I've been told that the same thing applies to pretty much all of the Florida, Houston, or San Francisco establishments on that list.

    I will conclude the establishments on that list are almost exclusively ones known for high mileage, but those clubs are likely have peers in their respective cities where you can probably get equal if not greater mileage, that are nowhere near as popular, and therefore aren't nearly as well reviewed.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    My first, and only, night at Treasure's I was making the rounds when some guy stopped me and told me that I was obviously hustling, and that girls don't do that there to make money. He then showed me high big thick black AMEX card, bought me a drink, and told me he would pay me to bounce up and down on his dick, but not for dances.
    LOL....yeah, that's pure houston style.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    You'd better BELIEVE that the dancers have to hustle guys like that....not all of the girls do extras there, but most of them will say they do it to fullfill and expectation...
    well, a girl's gotta do what...
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    Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".

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    Default Re: Why don't they get it?

    Doc,

    They aren’t reviewed they are viewed. And maybe our definition of high hustle is different. I enjoy getting hustled for dances but not for lady drinks. I don’t mind if 20 women come and sit on my lap and ask me for a dance and tell me about all of the wild and crazy things they will do in the VIP room. To me that is not hustle just fun.

    Red Red Red,

    You have stated that 1. good looking dancers don’t do extras. That is patently false. The difference between good looking dancers and not so good looking dancers is that the good looking ones get paid more for extras.

    It is a common complaint from American dancers that the flagrant extras ladies from Brazil, Europe and Russia are knockouts and do extras readily and at prices much less than Americans would consider doing them.

    The market always wins. If American women won’t fill the market need the ladies from Brazil and Europe will be brought in to fill the gap.

    When running an extras club the dancers know they will be doing extras before starting to work there. Why would they leave?

    It has been a long time but I think the analogy still holds true. I went with two other gentlemen into Rick’s in Houston. There were nothing but Mercedes, Caddys and BMW’s in the parking lot and nothing but oil money in the club. The cheapest pair of cowboy boots that I saw was about a grand and I was wearing those. I don’t know if anyone else remembers Rick’s in the early days but it was new and beautifully furnished with one of the largest varieties of Miss Americas that I had ever seen. Extras were readily available and pricey and the quality of the women both in beauty and personality awesome.

    2. Red you said that high mileage clubs go out of business.

    You must have missed my point about the TUSCL list. The high mileage clubs are the most successful clubs not the least successful. If you can figure out how to get around the cops the only thing you have to do to make a non successful air dance club successful is add extras. Bingo in a couple of months you are making money.

    Red, I don’t know what you consider extras. I would say that totally nude dancing, mutual touching, full contact and grinding for a happy ending is an extra.

    2001 and Mons in Tampa both qualify for that description and more at 2001. Both of those clubs have a large staff of very attractive women and have for years and both are very successful now and have been successful for a long time.

    I am sure the other members of the board can point out to you other examples around the country.

    Your opinions are exactly the reverse of what makes a successful club. But that was my original question. Why don’t they get it?

    I also think the assignation of lower status or moral impropriety that some ladies put on extras dancers is hypocritical.

    The reason is my personal experience. A few years ago I was in partnership with a very well known retired sports figure. Our business caused us to travel two or three times a year. His favorite out of town activity was strip clubs. He had a ton of money and usually picked up the tabs. We went to non extras clubs almost exclusively. We never left with less than 8 dancers. We could have left with 20. The effect of money, notoriety and power sure has a knee opening effect. It is my opinion that extras are rarely a matter of morals. They are a combination of intoxication, the fame and fortune of the person asking and the time of the month.

    It has been my experience that men brag about sex and women brag about not having sex.

    If the truth be known men have less extras than claimed and dancers provide a lot more that stated.



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