Error editing post! Your message is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.Error editing post! Your message is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters. Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

View Poll Results: Do you think there needs to be an organization that 'looks out' for dancers?

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  • Yes, dancers could use some kind of legal and social support nonprofit organization.

    9 75.00%
  • No, dancers do not need additional support from a legal and social support nonprofit organization.

    1 8.33%
  • Maybe. I'm not sure it's necessary and/or I'm not sure it would be effective.

    1 8.33%
  • My opinion is different from the options available in this poll.

    1 8.33%
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Thread: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

  1. #1
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    Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    hey girls,

    is there an organization that monitors adult entertainment clubs? i mean, like a nonprofit, or a strippers' union or something?

    ive only visited the site a couple times, but i keep getting the feeling that dancers in particular face unfair situations without someone waiting in the wings to protect them....

    too often, postings in this thread describe the following things:
    1. confusion about unfair custies' behavior
    2. custies not behaving respectfully, period
    3. people not appearing to know the laws that protect them
    4. people not knowing what to do/where to go/whom to go to when things go bad with a custie (ie harrassment in the club, unwanted touching, lack of effective and protective oversight, stalking)
    5. "office politicking" ---- rivalries and poor management impacting people's ability to earn a living by following the rules they thought were clear

    reading all these posts, i get the feeling that there needs to be some kind of organization that cultivates relationships with club owners, management, and dancers in the interest of maintaining the integrity of the industry and assisting dancers, especially, who find themselves in vulnerable situations.

    some of the posts ive read are written by girls who could REALLY use some legal advocacy. (seriously? a customer bit someone on the ear? that is vile and needs to be dealt with in a productive way! ie one where justice is served and the entertainer is compensated for the crappiness of that situation. if that was you, seriously message me and i will help you in any way that i can).

    some situations --for example, some of the staff infighting described on posts throughout the 'general' forum---are just so beyond mediation that the individual posting needs justice and compensation for the wrongs done to her by a custy, a co-worker, or the management.

    forgive me a mild rant, but it's just not fair the way some posters have been treated. moreover, it's not fair that they fear for their jobs, their livelihood, their dependents, their ambitions and how they might be jeopardized if they seek redress of the situation. ive read too many posts in which people explain ludicrous reasons they've been fired or oppressed by custies and even their own management and housemoms. while it appears these instances are in the minority of the experiences described by posters in this forum overall, there is no reason that *any* dancer should feel so threatened and worried about job loss that she cannot stand up for her right to a safe and enjoyable work environment.

    in my opinion, there should be, if there isn't already, an organization with the power generated by having relationships with people in the industry standing guard to protect people in vulnerable situations.

    i would love to hear some feedback from you all.. anyway, my question is basically: is there an organization that handles advocacy/mediation/assistance for dancers in general and specifically dancers in vulnerable situations?

    my apologies for the length of the post/rant.


    thanks guys.

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  3. #2
    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    I believe there IS a stripper union, but I don't know much about it.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    i just googled for it but all i can find is a band called 'stripper's union' and a xanga blog ring with the same name.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    ok. i did a little more googling and took a look at the following sites:

    sex workers' international media watch
    gstringsforever.com
    $pread

    based on what ive seen in the searches, it appears there is an actual union in australia.

    a couple notes:

    it's great that there are these organizations committed to getting the word out about industry workers' rights... but i dont think that is anywhere *near* enough.

    please, please object if you think i am headed in the wrong direction, but i think that there need to be, at the very minimum:

    1. web resources listing specific local laws pertaining to ALL things that could POSSIBLY affect employees who work at adult entertainment clubs. there are laws in place re: harrassment, etc, that are required to be posted in all company buildings, but this is a TOTALLY different ballgame and obviously things are trickier at clubs, especially if you're a dancer.

    2. lines of communication between and among people in the industry in the same way that there are lines of communication between and among people in other industries. this could take the form of a union like we see among electrical workers, or federal and state employees, for example, or it could take the form of a nonprofit that sort of behaves like a union.

    3. a mechanism for reporting instances like custie assault and management mistreatment without victims' needing to worry about repercussions. people should not fear for their jobs and tolerate this behavior. it is unacceptable that this goes on and people turn a blind eye to it---no one deserves that.

    4. counseling for dancers who experience bad situations in number 3. i used to work in the field of domestic violence. people react to bad situations in all kinds of ways and need to talk about it in a safe, confidential way. whether they want to take legal action or just talk about it or do something in between those things should be possible and organized by knowledgeable people who are on their side.

    what do you think?

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    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Haha, nice name for a band. *insert eyeroll here* I'm sure someone else will know more about it
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    I would be willing to pay to join some sort of stripper union. I don't the government should have to pay for it because not all dancers pay taxes.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    I would too. MANY would, and most here would... But who knows how to start one?
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    i do. i have a ton of nonprofit management experience. i am crazy busy with school right now, but i will be in new york in june. if the desire is there, i will step up.

    i think this is a serious issue, but ill let the regular posters and other people who reply speak to that.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Well, then count me in
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Hi everyone,

    The International Union Of Sex Workers (, based in London, has set up an Adult Entertainment branch for dancers recognised by the GMB (Britain's biggest general trade union, so it has some clout and influence).

    A problem it's had with recruitment is most dancers don't want to rock the boat, get a reputation as a potential trouble-maker and sacked from their clubs. The clubs bosses themselves need to be involved and supportive of the union - and of course they're happy raking their cash in and treating girls like crap, why should they change they think? Also so many girls here in London are only here for a year or two on student visas and just care about making some money to send home, not about longer-term workers' rights.

    At the moment however the Scottish Executive in considering banning lapdancing, private booths, enforcing a one-metre rule from performer to any other person, letting local councils decide whether full nudity is ok, etc. This is all based on a 'report' which only interviewed six dancers. Do a search on Google.com on 'scottish lap dancing ban news' for all the info - it's literally all happening right now.

    The IUSW/GMB is fighting for dancers' rights to be heard on this, and now loads of dancers and clubs in Scotland are interested in being part of the union and having a bigger voice. Union members get free legal advice, discounted insurance, accountancy services and all sorts.

    I think something like this is definitely needed. Too many of us are treated like crap and just told to leave if we stand up for ourselves.

    Solitaire x
    (in London)

  13. #11
    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Here are two articles by the same writer about the unionization of the Lusty Lady:
    http://www.sexuality.org/authors/steinberg/cn58.html
    http://www.cleansheets.com/articles/...09.17.03.shtml

    The Exotic Dancer's Alliance:
    http://www.eda-sf.org/

    I'm the webmaster of both swimw.org and gstringsforever.com; I don't know if you read the whole article about stripper unions, but it's about some of the issues I've heard over the past 25 years when the issues of unions come up:
    http://www.gstringsforever.com/stripperunion.html

    Try googling "exotic dancers" and "adult entertainers" in addition to "strippers."
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  14. #12
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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    This is something that I thought about a lot when I was an active activist. (Now I am doing other things, but at one time I was really sacrificing in other areas of my life to try to be a good activist.) As a dancer, you start out trying to negotiate with management, but when legislators try to close down the clubs, you can end up forming an alliance WITH management because you're so busy fighting to keep your job that you don't have as much of an opportunity to fight to defend your rights IN that job. In this way the prejudices of some societies against adult entertainment enforce the idea that dancing is not a legitimate job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solitaire
    Hi everyone,

    The International Union Of Sex Workers (www.iusw.org.uk), based in London, has set up an Adult Entertainment branch for dancers recognised by the GMB (Britain's biggest general trade union, so it has some clout and influence).

    ...

    At the moment however the Scottish Executive in considering banning lapdancing, private booths, enforcing a one-metre rule from performer to any other person, letting local councils decide whether full nudity is ok, etc. This is all based on a 'report' which only interviewed six dancers. Do a search on Google.com on 'scottish lap dancing ban news' for all the info - it's literally all happening right now.
    ...

    Solitaire x
    (in London)
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Oh my god! They really accomplished a LOT in California!

    I will cut and paste their accomplishments here... It's too bad they aren't really in operation anymore.

    July 2001


    EDA receives grant award from Unitarian Universalist Funding Program.

    June 2001


    St. James Infirmary celebrated our 2 year anniversary.

    May 2001


    Participated in San Francisco Sex Worker Film Festival.

    April 2001


    Participated in meeting with San Francisco Department of Public Health Environmental Health and STD Prevention regarding outreach to adult entertainment theaters.

    February 2001


    Participated in panel discussion at screening of "Live Nude Girls UNITE!" at the University of California at Berkeley, Boalt Hall School of Law.

    January 2001


    A.B. 2509 becomes effective. Owners who require the payment of "stage fees," "commissions," or "quotas" from any portion of dancers' tips will be in violation of California State labor laws.

    October 2000


    Participated in panel presentation on sex industry workers at Institute for Community Health Outreach.

    October 2000


    Participated in panel discussion during the screening of "Live Nude Girls UNITE!" at the Roxie Theater in San Francisco.

    September 2000


    California Governor Gray Davis signs Assembly Bill 2509 (Authored by Assemblyman Steinberg), which improves enforcement and administrative procedures of wage and hour laws before the Labor Commissioner and the courts, and increases civil penalties and damages for violations. A.B. 2509 classifies exotic dancers as employees, and entitles them to keep their cash gratuities ("tips) from patrons.

    April 2000


    Testified in support of AB 2509 amending State labor codes to prohibit management from receiving any portion of exotic dancer's cash gratuities in front of the State Assembly Labor Committee. (Now THIS is something worth organizing around!)

    February 2000


    Participated in meeting with Chief of Staff, Department of Industrial Relations Division of Occupational Safety and Health regarding improving current working conditions for exotic dancers.

    February 2000


    Conducted presentation for CORO (A Foundation for leadership) class members.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    It is SO cool that they made stage fees illegal.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    I wonder why this was buried down here in Members? This thread should be in Stripping General.
    The essential humanity of men can be protected and preserved only where government must answer--not just to the wealthy, not just to those of a particular religion, or a particular race, but to all its people.

    Robert F. Kennedy
    June 6, 1966

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    not sure.

    i would really like to organize for this if you guys are interested. it's not fair for people to profit off treating people like crap. ive done a little research and there are a bunch of foundations that might be interested in funding an organization like this, like the levi strauss foundation, the third wave foundation, the unitarian universalist foundations and some others.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Try

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    very interesting.

    i have a question... do people think stage fees are fair?

    its really cool they made them illegal in CA.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    What people think in this case is irrelvant. It's the law and if you look under laws you should know those are IRS federal laws.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    i dont quite understand what you're saying... what do you mean? are stage fees illegal?

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    yes read laws 2 know.

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    where is this information available? you mentioned the irs--how were these laws codified? are they state level or federal?

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    Awesome. Thanks; however, I still have questions. In the Laws 2 know thread, it states the following:

    LEGAL DEFINITIONS:

    EMPLOYEE:
    where a person performing work for another is subject to the orders, control,
    & direction of such other person (employer). [29 Cal Jur 3d (Rev)]


    INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR:
    Any person who renders service for a specified result, under the control of
    his principal as to the result of her work only and not as to the means by
    which such result is accomplished. [29 Cal Jur 3d (Rev)]

    Are these California state laws or Federal laws, because it says "Cal" in there and it may not actually apply to, say, strippers in NYC.

    Anyone know?

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    Default Re: Is there an advocacy group? Because there should be one.

    THE IRS & CALIFORNIA LAWS DETERMINE IF A WORKER IS AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR,
    NOT WRITTEN AGREEMENTS.

    IRS = Federal. Meaning all states.

    Quote Originally Posted by kitkat824
    Awesome. Thanks; however, I still have questions. In the Laws 2 know thread, it states the following:

    LEGAL DEFINITIONS:

    EMPLOYEE:
    where a person performing work for another is subject to the orders, control,
    & direction of such other person (employer). [29 Cal Jur 3d (Rev)]


    INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR:
    Any person who renders service for a specified result, under the control of
    his principal as to the result of her work only and not as to the means by
    which such result is accomplished. [29 Cal Jur 3d (Rev)]

    Are these California state laws or Federal laws, because it says "Cal" in there and it may not actually apply to, say, strippers in NYC.

    Anyone know?

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