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Thread: Paying for medical bills?

  1. #1
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Paying for medical bills?

    I have a friend "Daphne" who I dance with, and she's in a tight spot. She asked me for advice, but I'm not sure what is the best advice to give her. She is a dancer and she is pregnant, but does not have health insurance or an alternate source of income.

    She is worried because she doesn't know what to do for work after she starts showing in her pregnancy. How long does it normally take before someone starts to show, and what is the average time in the pregnancy that dancers stop dancing? She thinks that she only has 2 months or so to dance, but I told her that I thought it was more like 4 or 5 months.

    She also is scared about how many medical bills she'd have to pay. She does NOT have insurance, although she makes decent money dancing from what I understand. It is true that insurance does not cover pre-existing conditions, so if she got insurance now it would be like "beating a dead horse," right? Or, are there any insurance programs(or PPOs) OTHER THAN Welfare/Medicaid that might cover at least a portion of the pregnancy/hospital expenses? And could hospitals offer payment plans that would allow you to pay the bill over an extended time, kinda like a credit card? From what she told me, she filed the bare minimum for taxes last year, just for the sake of reporting something so that the IRS wouldn't chase after her after she made a lot of travel purchases and things on credit cards that are tracked. She reported a gross income somewhere near $30K but used a lot of write-offs to bring her net taxable income down to about $5,000. Would this kinda tax return show a "financial need" for a sliding scale payment plan? However, her tax return states her job title as "dancer/entertainer" so that might be reason for the hospital to ASSume she makes a lot of money and expect her to pay full-price in cash, right? She said that she does not want to rely on welfare and she'd rather look at alternate financing options, such as a healthcare "line of credit" loan, or a partial discount with a sliding scale program, a payment program, etc. She is a conservative Republican LOL so she does not agree with milking the system for welfare, especially when she makes decent money and there are far more people in the world in a much worse spot(retail jobs, unemployment, disability, etc). What are the best options for Daphne? She seems very distraught and even said something the other day about maybe considering abortion, even though she is a hard-core Republican and normally very much against that, so I'm very worried about her situation. Thanks so much!

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    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    This is an article i found searching the net on this topic...

    Another challenge uninsured pregnant women face is the notion from many insurance plans that pregnancy is a pre-existing condition. Medicaid, a federal funded program for low income persons, will accept women who are already pregnant. However, if you are not eligible to receive Medicaid it can still be a challenge to pay for all the prenatal visits and delivery. The estimated cost of delivery alone is $6,000 – $8,000 for a normal pregnancy and the cost increases if it is a high risk pregnancy.

    This is the crisis that many pregnant women find themselves facing when they learn that they are pregnant. The excitement of being pregnant is quickly dissolved by the worry and anxiety of financial burden. We at the American Pregnancy Association have done research to help pregnant women find available healthcare and receive proper prenatal care.

    GOVERNMENT FUNDED PROGRAMS
    Medicaid is a state run program that is federally funded. Medicaid provides medical assistance for low-income families and individuals. To locate an office near you go to Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
    You may find that there are other options, depending on your state, which provide additional programs for women who are pregnant such as Medi-cal from the state of California. You can check with your local department of health at Health Departments by State for information on local programs that may further assist you.

    WIC is a federal agency that serves to safeguard the health of low-income women, infants and children under the age of 5. WIC provides nutritious foods to supplement diets, information on healthy eating and referrals to health care. To get more information you can go to Women, Infants and Children.

    HEALTHCARE DISCOUNT PROGRAMS
    There are many alternatives to traditional health insurance and Medicaid. These alternatives offer a discount on your healthcare and may help you out. Make sure to check with your health care provider to find out what discount you would receive if you paid cash. Take monthly fee's, deductibles and premiums into account. Here are a few examples of discount programs.

    MaternityCard™ is a discount health program that can save you up to 60% on doctor’s visits, lab work, sonograms, your hospital stay and much more. MaternityCard is not insurance but it works with a National Preferred Provider Maternity Network. For a low monthly fee, MaternityCard can provide you with a comprehensive maternity plan. You can receive these benefits even after you have found out that you are pregnant. You can request FREE information by filling out this form: Request Free Information. Or you can call them toll-free at (866) 226-8815.

    AmeriPlan is a discount plan that is currently available in all states except Alaska. AmeriPlan saves people up to 50% and more on their health care services. Benefits include physician, hospital, and ancillary services (i.e. lab work, tests, x-rays). Since AmeriPlan is not insurance, all pre-existing conditions are covered (except orthodontic treatment in progress), there are no deductibles, no waiting period, no claim forms and no annual limits. For more information on this discount program you can go to: http://www.ameriplanusa.com.

    Smart Health Care Solutions is not insurance but an affordable alternative to the soaring costs of health care. All pre-existing conditions are accepted. As an Association, Smart Health Care Solutions is committed to providing members with access to healthcare providers at reduced rates that are both nationwide and affordable regardless of any pre-existing health conditions. For more information you can call 1-800-618-0607.


    OTHER OPTIONS FOR MANAGING HEALTHCARE COSTS
    Here are some additional ideas for helping you manage the costs related to prenatal care and birth:

    If you are delivering at a hospital you can contact the account office and talk to someone about setting up a payment plan or ask if they offer a sliding scale. Many hospitals do offer these, but they are not utilized because people do not know what is available to them.

    If you are having an uncomplicated pregnancy you may want to consider giving birth at a birthing center. The estimated cost of a delivery and prenatal care at a birthing center is about $3,000 – $4,000. This is half of what it would be for a delivery at a hospital. Many birth centers also provide sliding scales, payment plans and accept Medicaid.
    http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pla...ealthcare.html



    Here is some basic information that might help your friend. Check out the links in the article many of them dont show up here. I hope they can help.

    If she has no other options but to either go on welfare or get an aboration really way the pros and cons. It basically means either swallowing her pride to go on welfare or swallow the fact she is having an aboration. I really feel for her. That is a really tough choice to make.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    Insurance companies, usually, cannot deny covering a pregnant woman under the "pre-existing" clauses. Some will try, but most cannot/will not. They, however, will only cover bills from the date coverage starts.

    If she is not married, or if she is married and her hubby doesn't have insurance, then she can apply to the state under the "healthy mother, healthy child" campaign (Medicaid). Usually, if a woman is pregnant and does not have access to health care, then the state will pay the bill. The upside is that she won't have to worry about medical bills, the downside is that she'll be more limited in her choice of doctors/hospitals.

    Another thing she can do is call the hospital and inquire about their "average fees" for a natural, vaginal delivery; a vaginal delivery with "usual" drugs; and a c-section. Also, making payments to the hospital in advance while she's making money could help her out. Supplementing Medicaid (state funding) with what she's already paid wouldn't make her "milk the system" but would give her a little relief in the "money worry" department. Just as a general idea...my hospital bill with Makayla came out to be around $15,000 and the doctor bill was around another $10,000 (includes all pre-natal/post-natal visits and 2 ultrasounds).

    She can also look into alternative birthing. Sometimes a birthing center will be a little more inexpensive. I know most home-birth docs are much cheaper than hospitals (my home birth doc charges around $6,000...all visits, etc but not including ultrasounds) for a home birth.

    There are a lot of options, and some of those options can be mixed and matched. She's going to need to make some phone calls and see, exactly, what she is capable of doing and what she wants to do.

    Now, as for showing...my first pregnancy I didn't really start to show until I was around 4 - 4 1/2 months preggers. However, THIS pregnancy, I'm already showing and I can't button my jeans (thank God for Bella Band) and I'm only 11 weeks preggers. A friend didn't start showing until almost 6 months on all 3 pregnancies. Every body is different.

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    God/dess FrustratedBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    I know here in Florida if you apply for an insurance policy that isn't a group policy they will flat out tell you that maternity will not be covered. In fact, I know one girl who is self employed who can't seem to get coverage since she recently had a child. However, I know someone else who got pregnant and went on the state program (Healthy Kids or whatever) and she loved it. She paid next to nothing for healthcare and said she wished she could stay on the program but it only covers you if you are pregnant.

    There is a club here that had an a pregnant girl work who was BIG pregnant (or so I heard, never saw her). Maybe she could serve drinks or waitress or something when she starts showing? I saw a pregnant Hooter's girl and she just didn't wear the little shorts and wore a bigger t-shirt tied under her belly.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    Not to tempt fate, but there is the small possibility that 'things could go wrong' ... both during the pregnancy and after the birth ... which could easily rack up six figure medical bills and precipitate a bankruptcy. Given that this girl really only has a couple of more months worth of time before her obvious pregnancy is going to make it difficult to dance, given that this girl doesn't already have insurance and is not going to be able to find insurance, and assuming that this girl also doesn't have any major assets (house, new car, large savings/investments), by far her best alternative is to quit dancing when she seriously starts to 'show' and apply for public assistance.

    Realistically speaking, this is the ONLY way that she is going to be able to get 100% reimbursement for her own and her new baby's medical bills. Realistically speaking, this is also the best way that she's going to be able to cover rent, utility bills, groceries etc. for the 6-8 month period during which she can't effectively work as a dancer. Realistically speaking, this is the only way she can avoid the risk of a forced bankruptcy if complications should develop.

    As far as eligibility for public assistance programs goes, in my state at least the welfare dep't looks at current assets and current income to determine eligibility for WIC, food stamps, subsidized rent, subsidized utilities etc. They won't look at all at how much money someone earned, spent, or reported to the IRS in past years. They only care about how much money you are earning this month, how much money you have 'in the bank', and how much any assets you own might be liquidated for (i.e. house, car, stock shares)

    As to the 'mental issues' of a conservative republican accepting public assistance, I for one can truly understand that ! However, short of accepting a huge financial risk should complications develop plus depending on family and friends for her support during the 6-8 months she'll be unable to work as a dancer, at this point there aren't many other options. All I can say to any 'guilt issues' is that at least she intends to use public assistance programs as they were originally intended (i.e. a temporary measure rather than a career), and that once she returns to dancing after the baby is born she'll wind up repaying every penny of public assistance in the form of income and self-employment taxes ... many times over !

    These days the gov't is handing out benefit money to people who are in the USA illegally, to people who make a 'career' out of doing absolutely nothing etc. thus there's absolutely no reason to feel 'guilty' about a US citizen accepting public assistance on a temporary basis in a genuine time of need !!!

    Of course the one other option still available is an abortion. Should she wish to do this, the 12 week clock is already ticking. Obviously this decision is a HUGE one, and I won't comment further other than to point out that a key question will be what sort of life/job she's prepared to lead 6-8 months from now with a baby to consider. Some girls can return to dancing after giving birth and provide a good environment for their baby ... but many others cannot. Many girls who return to dancing after giving birth discover that if they report their incomes, pay their taxes, lose their social program benefits, purchase insurance for themselves and their baby, and pay normal price for rent, utilities, food etc. that they can barely make ends meet. This is often exacerbated by the fact that the girl's body goes through lots of changes during pregnancy such that when they do return to dancing their stretch marks, saggy breasts, extra pounds etc. leave them with a reduced earnings potential. This is often exacerbated further by either the club or babysitter schedules forcing the dancer to work 'day' shifts instead of 'night' shifts.

    This has prompted many new mother dancers to return to dancing 'off the books', to keep the social program benefits etc., and to keep spending money as they did before they became pregnant. However, this has also prompted many state welfare/tax dept's to begin in-depth investigations, which has resulted in some highly publicized recent cases of tax fraud + welfare fraud being levelled against the dancer mothers who did this. This can in turn lead to the new mother 'doing time' with the risk that her baby will be put in a foster home during her incarceration.

    In the alternative, this has prompted other new mother dancers to return to dancing 'on the books', but to also do anything and everything to augment their dancing incomes (i.e. 'extras') so that they'll actually have money left over after taxes, insurance, rent, utilities, diapers and groceries are paid for.

    Yet another alternative is for new mothers to seek a 'straight job' which provides insurance benefits for themselves and their baby. However, in the absence of specialized skills, the pay rates for such jobs is typically not high enough to be able to cover rent, utilities, food + everything the baby needs. This often leads to the mother (legally, because of the low 'straight job' pay rate) remaining on partial public assistance for years.

    It would appear that 'Daphne' has yet to consider anything beyond the immediate issue of how to pay medical bills associated with the birth. She really needs to start doing so ... and quickly ... before the 12 week abortion window closes such that she no longer has that option available.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-21-2006 at 04:15 AM.

  6. #6
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    A few things to mention about Daphne and her situation.

    First of all, Daphne has a college education...I am not sure what she does during the day, if anything at all besides dancing, or if she has any job experience. But I know that she went to college, because one time my friend "Joann" and I were talking with her about our recent graduations at college and what we all majored in(this was also one of the many discussions in which I flamed/bashed my college for their useless/nonexistent job placement program). I also know from talking to her, that Daphne went through crazy work schedules to pay for other(possibly more expensive in the short-run?) expenses, such as outrageous lawyer fees, taxes, and a few other scenarios which I am not sure of. All I know is, not long ago she was frantic and complaining about how she needed money (and quick) to pay her lawyer a very large detainment fee to avoid legal trouble...she said that it was "in the thousands" but apparently she worked enough hours and saved up the money in a short period of time(we're talking like a $10,000 debt to be saved up in a month). She tends to be a busy worker, but I do not think she realizes that if she carries through with this pregnancy and raises this kid, that she won't have as many hours in the day to work overtime if need be. She's going to have much more expenses, but much less time in the day to have for herself, let alone to dance or work. Dont' you agree?

  7. #7
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    Melonie-- When you were describing the different categories of single mom strippers and how each finds their way of "making it" with bills, you forgot one category...the most annoying category of single mom strippers of them all...THE SINGLE MOMS WHO SIMPLY DO NOT WORK(OR THEY DON'T WORK NEARLY THE WORK HOURS THEY ARE CAPABLE OF OR WORKED BEFORE) TO AVOID LOSING THEIR BENEFITS. If the girl dances "under the table" without reporting taxes so that she can keep Medicaid, she risks getting in trouble with the IRS or the law; if the girl reports taxes on dancing but does "extras," she also risks trouble with the law, but this time in the form of prostitution charges; and if the girl is uneducated and tries to get a "regular" job, the dead-end McDonalds or Wal-Mart jobs wouldn't pay enough, she'd still need Medicaid/welfare, thus the dead-end job would not do much more than waste valuable time that she could be spending with her child. Given the potential for each of these three scenarios to go wrong, I've witnessed many single moms who just simply do not work!!! This way, they avoid trouble with the law, or time away from their child(thus requiring the expense of a babysitter), or even the "trouble" of exerting effort and motivation to work a job. By producing no income at all, the girl gets to spend 100% time with her child and then she'd qualify for even MORE government aide!!! I think you might have referred to these girls as the kind who make a "career" outta Welfare. I've seen many girls take this approach, most of them non-dancers, and it angers me that my tax money is going towards mooches like this.

  8. #8
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    again, I know absolutely nothing about your friend Dapnne. I can only draw the conclusion that if she is still dancing that the 'options' provided by her particular college degree are not all that lucrative (old joke about liberal arts majors "you want fries with that" ?). I can also only draw the conclusion that any legal/tax problem which involved thousands of dollars for a legal retainer and coughing up $10,000 in a single month for unstated purposes is NOT a minor problem (and probably isn't actually resolved yet either) ! In truth, it sounds like Daphne doesn't exactly have her own life under control at the moment ... let alone being prepared to raise a child ... but that's strictly a personal opinion based on what little information is provided.

    Again I would reiterate that if Daphne does have the baby, when she returns to dancing she's probably going to be dealing with a very different earnings potential scenario (in the short term at least). Stretch marks, saggy breasts, extra pounds, sunken eyes and cheeks etc. may immediately cut into her popularity/earnings potential at the club. Also, if it is an upscale club, odds are that management is likely to bar her from working the most lucrative shifts until she gets her 'body back together' ... which can take anywhere from several weeks to several months to never, depending on how seriously her body is affected during the pregnancy. Thus the issue of the new additional time requirements for baby care cutting into her available working hours may actually be secondary to the club's simply not allowing her to work as many hours as she would like. Remember, from the club's standpoint, there are gorgeous young girls knocking on the club's front door every day, and the fact that Daphne was gorgeously hot before her pregnancy is no guarantee that she'll ever be as gorgeously hot again after her pregnancy - and there are no 'seniority' rules requiring that clubowners allow dancers who return after maternity leave to go back to their same shift or to be rehired at all if they have gained 15 pounds, have lost 2 cup sizes, have zebra stripe stretch marks etc.

    This is the issue which tends to encourage new mother dancers to either work 'off the books' while still collecting social program benefits (and risk tax fraud / welfare fraud charges - which are much more likely to be levelled given Daphne's pre-existing legal/tax problems) or to start offering 'extras' to offset the loss of popularity from stretch marks, saggy breasts, weight gain etc. in order to again achieve the before pregnancy earnings potential that they used to be able to earn based on pre-pregnancy physical appearance alone.

    As to your comment about 'career' welfare moms, yes they certainly are out there by the tens of thousands in my state. Although I had briefly mentioned this possibility, I didn't seriously consider that your friend Daphne would go this route ... because doing so basically means both the mother and child are stuck in a perpetual poverty cycle.
    !~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-21-2006 at 05:30 AM.

  9. #9
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    LOL I heard the joke about liberal arts majors...I think it goes to the effect of, "Everything I learned from my liberal arts degree: Do you want fries with that?" My friend Luis went to a liberal arts college, and bought a bumper sticker with that quote. (This was years ago, back when he'd only completed his freshman year of college, so I do not know what he is doing now after graduation, or what his job/career is like, but he seemed very intelligent with a clear head on his shoulders so hopefully he is doing something sophisticated that he enjoys.) As a college graduate myself, I agree!...it seems like my useless college degree has done nothing but waste time, get myself into debt, and give me something to constantly complain about. Well it's not really the degree(which is in mathematics, BTI), but the useless job placement center at my college and my pretty-much useless jobsearching skills(or apparent lack thereof). I do not know why Daphne or Joann keep dancing!...maybe it is the "easy money"? Although Daphne did tell me something about how she regrets majoring in criminal justice, and how she might go to graduate school or try a different career field?

    Maybe Daphne should look into waitressing? I know of this one girl, "Ricki," who got pregnant at 15, dropped out of high school, later got her GED, but started waitressing at a rather expensive Italian restaurant and was making $200-300/day. Yeah the days were longer hours than dancing(8hrs as opposed to 4-5hrs), but still that isn't bad when you are 18 and raising a 2-yr-old son on your own. I remember actually feeling a little humiliated, because this time last year when I worked at Wizzards I was fairly new and the money/club was rapidly declining, so I didn't make much money dancing...sometimes it'd take working 12hrs straight before I'd make $250-300(yeah that's bad I know, haha go laugh at me why don't you all). So she was actually making the same money as me, despite my longer hours, and even though I was taking my clothes off and she got to keep her's on. One time my at-time boyfriend and I were arguing about my dancing, and I had said that at least I made good money, and he'd scoffed, "No you don't, Ricki and my cousin Mary both waitress and make just as much money but without having to stay hours past their shifts like you do. And they don't lose the dignity you do by taking off their clothes." Not that there is anything wrong with taking off your clothes, the point is it seems like waitresses do good too. Or maybe it's just in the upscale places? Either way, this same ex-boyfriend who essentially claimed that Ricki and cousin Mary had better jobs than me, tried applying to the same restaurant as his cousin Mary...but never heard back. Then again, a lot of restaurants refuse to hire him because he has a visible tattoo on his wrist and back of his neck.

  10. #10
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    Yes it's possible to earn decent money if you are able to work in any club / restaurant / bar that caters to upscale clientele prepared to spend big money. If you compare upscale dancing earnings versus upscale waitress earnings, the dancing earnings win hands down. Similarly, if you compare run of the mill dancing earnings versus run of the mill waitress earnings, the dancing earnings win hands down. It is only when you attempt to compare apples and oranges i.e. run of the mill dancing earnings versus upscale waitress earnings, that the money comes out anywhere near close.

    All I can say about Daphne thinking about waitressing after having the baby is that a few extra pounds, saggy breasts, stretch marks etc. won't have anywhere near as negative of an effect on her earnings potential as they would if she tries to return to dancing. On the other hand, her probable earnings potential is only going to be 1/2 that of her pre-pregnancy dancing days even if she lands an upscale waitressing job.

    As to 'useless' college degrees, and/or the wisdom of investing several years and tens of thousands of dollars to obtain one, that's a whole 'nuther thread topic !

  11. #11
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    By the way, thank you to everyone for your long and thoughtful responses. Vamp--you shared a lot of good information and ideas. Melonie--you brought up some very sobering information and some very good points that most moms-to-be don't normally consider before choosing to keep the baby. I think I will print out this thread and pass it along to Daphne, in the same way that I passed along the thread I wrote about "Lucinda" and her possessive boyfriend to a concerned mutual friend(of Lucinda's and mine). I think this thread has enough ideas and considerations to give Daphne something to ponder about. Personally I think she shouldn't overlook the option of adoption, because then she won't have to live off the state or "wing it" financially, she won't have to end a life, and the baby could probably end up in a very caring, stable family environment(although there are always possibilities of adoption going all-wrong, too). I wonder if there's a way that I can suggest this to Daphne without being perceived as brash or offensive? But thanks again for the feedback!

  12. #12
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paying for medical bills?

    Adoption is certainly an option. However, 'public' adoptions still leave the unanswered questions as to how a girl is supposed to cover her living expenses, medical expenses etc. between the time she's no longer able to work, the time she gives birth, and the time she recovers and can return to work. And while some public adoption agencies will cover 100% of medical costs for the baby, they won't necessarily cover medical costs for an uninsured mother (which can be risky if post-partum complications should develop). With a public adoption, the normal drill is to first apply for welfare/medicaid/WIC benefits.

    A private adoption, on the other hand, can be set up to cover 100% of the mother's and baby's medical expenses up to the point of delivery. A private adoption can also be set up to cover the mother's 'living expenses' during some period of her pregnancy. However, some people feel that private adoption terms are tantamount to 'selling your baby'. Additionally, private adoption terms as described above are generally contingent on the mother / father having a 'desireable' background, as the prospective privately adopting parents (who are paying the bill for the entire affair) are usually rather choosy in regard to the race / social class / career of the baby's birth parents.

    I don't mean to sound racist or derogatory, however economic facts are facts. The probable going rate for a private adoption of a caucasian baby, whose mother and father are say private college students from a 'good' upper middle class family might command $20-$30k. However, prices drop rapidly if the baby isn't 100% caucasian, if the parents' background is questionable etc. (and the question will be asked by the prospective adoptive parents and answered by the adoption attorney that the mother is a 'stripper').

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