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Thread: one way to totally kill an economy ...

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Not to cause undue concern, but it appears that the Bird Flu business is starting to have some serious real world consequences in various places. If so, this probably means that it will only be a matter of time before the same sort of thing starts happening in American cities. I'm actually glad to be retired from live dancing, such that I can avoid being exposed to the germs and viruses being brought into a club by hundreds of different guys every night.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Like the mumps brought in by some British student/tourist in Idaho (around there.) Or the tuberculosis brought in from Mexico. Heck, there some places where there is even plague in the US.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Like the mumps brought in by some British student/tourist in Idaho (around there.) Or the tuberculosis brought in from Mexico. Heck, there some places where there is even plague in the US.
    Let's just build an iron fortress around the country then. Anyway, Dubya has a solution for the birdflu. He's planning on bombing the canary islands.

    ...just read that in Playboy tonight..couldn't help it...

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    ^^^

    Send your donation!

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    Temporarily Banned Vaughn's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie

    it appears that the Bird Flu business is starting to have some serious real world consequences in various places. If so, this probably means that it will only be a matter of time before the same sort of thing starts happening in American cities.
    This makes me think of Chicken Little, lol!

    It is just like the SARS thing a few years back. Blown way, way out of proportion.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    ^^^ probably true, but 'quarantined' businesses and workers aren't earning any money !

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    Temporarily Banned Vaughn's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    ^^^ probably true, but 'quarantined' businesses and workers aren't earning any money !


    Where are these workers and businesses being 'quarantined' here in the USA?

    Not everything that happens over seas occurs here in the US. Sorry but the sky is not falling. At least not over the Bird Flu. Maybe due to global warming but that is a topic in it's own so I won't go into it here.

    My point in bringing this up is that Chicken Little thinking doesn't do anything to help anyone except those who stand to benefit from fear mongering. In cases like this that would be the pharmaceutical companies. Do you have investments in pharmaceuticals or something? If not, what is with the sky is falling stuff?

    I'm just curious because I'm just not seeing how the bird flu over seas is going to as you put it "kill" our economy here in the US.

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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    If we can get one more year, we will have an effective vaccine for about 15 million people.
    This is enough to keep the hospitals, army, national guard, police, fire, and some supply chains open. If we could get two years we would have close to 40 million doses... maybe 50 million. There are some people who are immune anyway, and we would have alot of Tamiflu pills stockpiled in addition to the vacine. (The vacine would be the most effective.)

    If we can get two more years bird flu free. Stories in the NY Times and WSJ today
    report WHO health teams going to Indonesia where there has been the spread of the flu
    between people in one family. the concern is people to people contagion. It appears
    that since it was contained to one family in Indonesia... we lucked out again.

    My opinion. We need to buy time. Every month without bird flu in North America the stockpile of dugs, plans, and vacine grows. In three years, there would be almost enough tamiflu for every person, and enough vacine to vacinate every cop, fireman, hospital worker doctor, and army soldier in the US plus every federal worker from every agency. Also almost every truck driver, and warehouse worker and railroad worker. At that point the US would be fairly fortified and we would have to figure out how to help other countries in the world to prevent a world wide collapse in government services, food distibution, transit and order. This of coure means asia and africa because in three years Europe would also have alot of defenses up.

    I would keep my eyes on Indonesia not Bulgaria. Bulgaria is over reacting.

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    Banned TifaRae's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    The weird thing about the bird flu is that it kills usually the strongest people at the prime of their life. The reason for this is some kind of medical-term-thingy where the body's immune system actually overreacts to the flu, killing the person. I read it in Newsweek

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    I would keep my eyes on Indonesia not Bulgaria. Bulgaria is over reacting.
    The Bulgarian gov't 'overreaction' was precisely the reason that I originally posted on this subject. Agreed that if north America and western europe can continue to 'luck out' for another 2-3 years so that large supplies of Tamiflu can be stockpiled, they'll probably react rationally if and when any 'pockets' of human bird flu cases do occur. However, at this point in time, as Niceguy points out, the likelihood of gov't 'overreaction' is pretty high.

    Again not wanting to cause undue concern, but westerners now have a tendency to take for granted that whatever new 'ailment' crops up, that there will always be some new miracle drug available in infinite quantities at affordable prices to effectively deal with it - which is clearly not always the case. Westerners also (somewhat arrogantly IMHO) tend to forget that coming into contact with 'third world' diseases these days is often only one international flight or one truckload of illegal immigrants away.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    ^^^ But but - we have the purple pill they advertise on TV all the time!

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    Temporarily Banned Vaughn's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Hmm. No answer on my questions. I must have hit the nail on the head when I suggested what is behind this whole Chicken Little act.

    When someone goes around doing the "Sky is Falling" thing the question that should be asked is what does he or she personally stand to gain by making people think the end is near.

    There is a vast difference between being prepared and being scared. The US is taking steps to be prepared in the very unlikely event that the Bird Flu hits our shores. Seriously people, just look up how many people worldwide have contracted Bird Flu and compare that with the world's population. The odds of getting Bird Flu are less than getting struck by lightning.


    The Bird Flu is not "killing" our economy and there is no indication that such an event will come to pass. Trying to promote the idea that we are all in grave danger because of Bird Flu is straight up fear mongering.

    This thread topic is really annoying me now so I think I'll just be done with it. Moving on!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    ^^^ I didn't respond directly, because I never actually said the words that you are 'putting in my mouth' that Bird Flu somehow amounts to an immediate threat in the USA. It obviously doesn't at this moment. However, like 1918 vs 1917, it's also very possible that flu strains can mutate into very virulent strains in a short period of time. If and when that happens, the recent outbreaks of 'imported' 3rd world diseases in the USA serve as frighteningly effective examples of how little 'geographic isolation' will protect Americans.

    On another level, I was also attempting to plant a mental seed that govt's could indeed 'latch onto' a Bird Flu threat (actual or imaginary) to justify taking draconian actions, as just took place in Bulgaria. From a standpoint of strip clubs, certain US cities have already called upon their 'public health' powers to outlaw lap dances despite any actual hard evidence that lap dances really increase public health risks in any way - and for the most part have gotten away with doing so. All that would be needed are a handful of highly publicized Bird Flu cases in the USA to crop up, and certain gov't officials could seize the moment to exert 'emergency powers' in all sorts of politico-economic ways.

  14. #14
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    I thought you could only get bird flu if you handled live birds that had the disease and that it couldnt be passed between humans? Havent only like less than a dozen people in the WORLD gotten this thing? How can THAT be an epidemic? 12 deaths are going to ruin the economy? I must be missing something.

    (I dont have TV so all I know is what I hear... which isnt much so I may be wrong)

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    ^^^ There is a danger but... it sounds like a whole lotta media hype to me.

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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    Vaughn is certainly on to something.

    Fear mongering just puts people off edge and keeps them from complaining about real problems. In addition to lining the pockets of the medical community in a massive payoff, the media sells fear because right after the "special report" on the latest massive problem every American should fear, they follow up with commercials for that little purple pill Deogol mentioned and sells wonton consumerism to the masses to make us feel better.

    This administration has shown it is much happier talking about the bird flu and investing in it than alternative fuels.


    "Life is not about the number of breaths you take.
    It's about those moments which leave you breathless."

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    This administration has shown it is much happier talking about the bird flu and investing in it than alternative fuels.
    I agree that the Bird Flu issue doesn't have any current facts to support a 'paranoid' reaction by the US gov't ... however IMHO it does involve enough theoretical future risk to justify some CDC/FEMA planning and the production of a whole lot of doses of Tamiflu for future use by those engaged in 'vital services'.

    As to the matter of alternative fuels, there ARE a whole bunch of facts on the table that indicate that none of the 'politically correct' technologies i.e. alcohol, hydrogen, biodiesel* etc. are actually economically viable on their own merits ... or at least aren't economically viable within the United States given current oil/gasoline prices. IMHO the recent politically motivated push for ethanol (Iowa = Corn = first Presidential Primary) serves as a perfect example of why the gov't should NOT get directly involved in the energy business ...

    ... US produced (corn based) ethanol costs at least 50 cents per gallon more than imported (sugar cane based) ethanol - so the gov't has erected import quotas and a 50 cent tariff on imported ethanol to make sure American customers have to pay an extra 50 cents (= an extra 5 cents per gallon on E90 gasoline) in order to protect domestic producers

    ... US produced (corn based) ethanol actually consumes significantly more energy than it yields when the energy required to produce fertilizer, pesticides, diesel for tractors, natural gas for distillation etc. are counted in. Sugar cane based ethanol is much better in this regard, but unfortunately there aren't many places in the USA where two crops per year of sugar cane can be grown.

    ... Even at a US price which is 50 cents per gallon higher than 'world market', US produced (corn based) ethanol would still not be profitable for the corn growers and refiners were it not for the existance of gov't farm and refining subsidies paid for by US taxpayers


    * disclaimer, biodiesel IS economically viable providing that the 'raw material' i.e. spent restaurant cooking oil and similar 'waste products' are available 'for free'.
    .

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    Veteran Member Smoothcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: one way to totally kill an economy ...

    I hope that people don't over-react and take it out on the migratory bird populations. I can just imagine some types who might try poisoning flocks of birds, and making an even bigger problem out of it. Imagine whatever toxins they'll try to use seeping into the ground water, and birds spreading it around.

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