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Thread: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

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    Veteran Member NoCoverLover's Avatar
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    Default split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    All you need is a ship capable of going 13 miles out into the ocean.
    Boo on you

    That's too easy! I like the idea of staking out some turf, and having an army capable of beating the ass of anyone who decides to mess with us! I also like the idea of persistance. Our customers can come back to the clubs again and again, and get a sense of where they are.

    We'll also import/build some scenery, to make the whole trip worthwhile!

    Boats are fine, but having nice beaches, trees and jungle to go with it is even better.

    LOL The point of my original post was... Even the complexities of running a nation pale in comparison to being legitimate in Mexico, especially in the stripclub business!

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    Default Re: Anyone want to start a Club in Mexico?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoCoverLover
    Boo on you

    That's too easy! I like the idea of staking out some turf, and having an army capable of beating the ass of anyone who decides to mess with us! I also like the idea of persistance. Our customers can come back to the clubs again and again, and get a sense of where they are.

    We'll also import/build some scenery, to make the whole trip worthwhile!

    Boats are fine, but having nice beaches, trees and jungle to go with it is even better.

    LOL The point of my original post was... Even the complexities of running a nation pale in comparison to being legitimate in Mexico, especially in the stripclub business!

    How about a BIG ship?

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    Default Re: Anyone want to start a Club in Mexico?

    actually, this is already underway and only about 2 1/2 years away from completion ... just in time for some of the richest people in America to escape soaring future tax rates !



    The $2 million dollar buy-in to change one's legal (and tax) residence to 'Freedom City' is a bit steep for most of us, though !

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    Default Re: Anyone want to start a Club in Mexico?

    ^^^ There will be taxes there too sooner or later. Call em condo fees or what have you - they will be coming.

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    Default Re: Anyone want to start a Club in Mexico?

    ^^^ perhaps, but for certain there won't be any welfare / medicaid / subsidized housing& utilities / law enforcement / incarceration costs to worry about !

    IMHO this whole concept is a 'disturbing' extension of the 'gated community' concept ... where those who can afford to do so are able to cut physical ties and also cut financial (tax) obligations towards 'less fortunate' neighbors/citizens. Given that the richest 1% of Americans ( consisting of just 1,100,000 households ) currently pay more than 1/3rd of ALL tax dollars collected, while the other 99% of Americans collectively pay the other 2/3 rds, having 20,000 or so of the richest Americans making a permanent exodus from the United States to Freedom City will have a significant impact on overall US tax revenues ! If this initial Freedom City experiment is successful, it would only take about 50 of these island ships to allow the entire richest 1% of the US population to permanently escape US income taxes and US laws.

    I'm sure that the United Nations will provide passports and some sort of 'independent' nationality for permanent Freedom City residents ... for a price ! After all, their skimming of Saddam's Oil for Food program has been halted, so they're not likely to turn down such new and generous 'benefactors'.

    The first time that I had ever thought about this concept was the result of watching an original Star Trek episode titled 'Stratus', where only the 'elite' on a particular planet lived in a 'floating city' hovering quite a distance above the planet's surface, where they conducted very profitable business with other planets, and could pursue art, science, and the finer things in life. Meanwhile, the majority of the planet's residents actually lived in squalor on the planet's surface and slaved away in mines to in effect sustain the lifestyle of the elites. Those that were 'chosen' to live in the 'floating city' had an opportunity to improve their position in life, while those that were not chosen (regardless of their individual abilities or talents) were doomed to a life of drudgery and poverty. The 'surface dwellers' obviously wished to rebel against the 'elites', but by completely severing themselves physically, socially and politically, the 'elite' residents of the 'floating city' had made themselves untouchable.

    It appears that science fiction might only be about 3 years away from becoming reality, with little hope of a 'USS Enterprise' coming along to intervene !
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-29-2006 at 09:37 AM.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    There was an effort to do this already. The boat has been at sea a couple of years. It is called 'The World' and just sails from port to port. A cabin starts at something like $500,000.
    They have had problems though. Lots of people rented their cabins out and so suddenly the place isn't so high falutin any more and the reputation started to fall.
    To be fair though Melonie, if you want to avoid taxes by moving abroad, it isn't so hard to do. The Caribbean has plenty of places, Europe and the Middle East too. Money enables almost anything to happen!

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    ^^^ so what are your personal recommendations for an offshore move to a location that is relatively safe from terrorist attacks and political upheaval, relatively low cost of living, and where the locals don't hate Americans ? Cayman Islands ? Andorra ?

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Hmmm. Well Andorra is great. I have only spent 2 days there but it is wonderful. Very sleepy, mountains, virtually zero crime, low prices and fresh air! But, you have to spend 6+ months per year there - like Monaco. That might be a downside.
    Malta and Cyprus have advantages. Low costs, flat rate taxes if you get the right residency, EU membership, low crime rates and great weather. I am very tempted by Malta myself! Perhaps I'll visit later in the year.
    Gibraltar is a little boring. It's about the size of a decent backyard and has 32,000 residents. Not a very exciting place - but very sunny and hot. Costs aren't so low either.
    I have always had a hankering to try Barbados too. I think it is the cricket that tempts me the most, but I hear great things. What about Bermuda or Paradise Island?
    Of course, there is always Dubai. As a pal likes to put it: in the 'Unaudited Arab Emirates'. Zero taxes, great weather, costs are rising but nothing when compared to London or New York.
    If you are really wealthy, you could legally use the UK as a tax haven, Ireland and Belgium too. Living costs are not cheap, but standard of living is pretty good. I'm not a massive fan of the UK, hence I don't live there, but Belgium and Ireland are lovely. Weather not too great though.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Sticking with this, if you have even a slightly adventurous nature, there is a lot to be gained by moving abroad.
    There are some tax laws in the UK that I am using to my advantage - playing the game really. I'm still UK resident, but I get a whole raft of extra tax deductions because I live outside of the UK. These last for 2 years. But there are ways to extend them by another 2 years - which I have. I'm able to deduct rent, bills, travel and normal business expenses. This means that I have legally not paid tax in the last 3 years! It also means that my gross taxable income is very, very low - so I get full state social security benefits for about £10 per quarter. In the UK, my social security cost 9% of income as I recall.
    My friends are all expats too - so I now have 'holiday homes' in about 8 different European countries. I travel plenty using free / friendly accomodation and budget airlines.
    I earn about the same as I used to in the UK, but work less hours and have more weeks off.
    For me at least, it has been the best thing I have ever done!!!
    And I have moved to a country with crappy weather and high taxes. Imagine what will happen if I move to somewhere with better weather and lower taxes!!!!!!!

    I'm no expert, but as I understand it, Americans can move and earn up to c.$80,000 pa and pay no US taxes - as long as they file a tax return each year. Sure, as the $ drops, that will mean less and less. But, if you earn in another currency, you will probably be wealthier should you decide to 'go back'.
    If you move to another country with low-ish taxes, you could have a decent lifestyle for very low taxes and costs.

    I mentioned Malta earlier ... one reason I am thinking about is low living costs. A 3 bed appt, with sea view, fully furnished is about £300 pm to rent. Wow! Cost of living is viewed as 'cheap' when compared to Southern Europe. Yet S Europe is considered cheap vs everywhere else in Europe! There are no records that prove that Malta has had a temperature (day or night) of below 0c!!!
    If you get the correct residency, tax is a flat rate of 15% for all that you remit to the island (can you see a loophole there?). No capital gains taxes and no inheritance tax. VAT is lower than most of Europe too. There is no minimum number of days residency either pa.

    Why stay at home, when 'abroad' treats you so well?????????

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    well, keep us posted on Malta. I could handle the concept of living on a Mediterranean island and paying zero capital gains taxes ! Plus I've always had a passion for the Knights Templar (the world's first international bankers LOL) ! As an American, the middle east is out of the question. Also, I'm not all that comfortable trusting that the remaining caribbean island nations who have not yet gotten in bed with the US/IRS (or for that matter gotten in bed with China instead) will continue to resist doing so in the future.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    True, I can see your point. But, for what it's worth, you'd need to arrange your banking elsewhere (outside the EU) to have a chance of that. I guess that as with anything, if you have a passport from one country, residence in another and assets / banking in a third, there is only so much one government can do to you.
    Although thinking about it, most of the banking issues in the EU relate to giving up independence to the EU - I guess giving in to the USA is next !!

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    ^^ does that put us on a beach in the Caymans ? ... how about Belize ?

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Why would it need to?

    From what I hear, Belize isn't too great. The weather is pretty tropical (see how picky I am!) and standard of living is pretty low.

    A friend of mine has a sister working in the Caymans and the photos she sends back are amazing. Looks wonderful.

    You could probably use many nations for the banking if you wanted, Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Andorra, Gib, San Marino, Dubai etc. But why? If you have arranged residency in a nation with genuinely low taxes, why not admit your income and expenses?

    In the modern world, using offshore accounts is a virtual admission of guilt. Why admit it? Why not use the system legally and get the same results? As I mentioned in an earlier thread, it is what I have been managing so far. Sure I'm not Donald Trump, so it is easier for my expenses to be large enough to cover me.

    In lots of countries, mortgage / rent payments are still tax deductable. Here in Belgium, for example, mortgage payments can be deducted, as can interest payments on car purchase. There is no CGT here, and any income earned from rental property is tax free! As you might imagine, plenty of Belgians have a great lifestyle with almost zero taxes and hardly any effort. Once they own a few flats, they are made for decades!! The rest visit 'Auntie Lulu' once every few months (Luxembourg) to get at their hard earned cash sans taxes.

    It's all about understanding the rules and using them to your best advantage!

    http://www.henleyglobal.com/malta1.htm

    http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/jcypetx.html

    http://www.investorsoffshore.com/htm...us_cyprus.html

    Or what about this? Just 3 hours from Barcelona through some amazing terrain...

    http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/janpetx.html

    http://andorra-property.com/property/public/welcome.cfm

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    ^^ I guess that I'm still not comfortable with actually having to spend 183 days a year outside of the USA in order to have my income treated as 'foreign income' by the IRS. But what you say about 'anonymous banking' is ever more true - IMHO it's just a matter of time and luck before the IRS/State Dep't will have their tentacles into every major transaction regardless of country of origin.

    It would appear that the only way around this (thinking 5 years down the road) is to 'vote with my feet' for a tax cut i.e. shift my legal residence to another country (Malta's regulations look wonderful BTW - I suppose I could masquerade as a Canadian !) and spend 183 days a year somewhere else besides the USA. That's my basic line of thinking re spending 'winters' in Belize or the Caymans, where being an American doesn't automatically generate a negative reaction from the locals.

    PS the fact that an area has a low standard of living also means that living expenses for an American Ex-Pat will be very cheap !

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    I'm fascinated by the Knights Templar as well, especially the way they started off as warrior monks, and wound up becoming rich in the end, which many surmise helped doom them--since people were getting jealous.

    Malta would be a cool place to live, centrally located, relatively easy to defend--but agriculturally weak, is it not (I could be wrong about that, but I think it's fairly rugged).

    Of course, what wealthy expatriate wants to be a farmer, lol!

    What about the Seychelles? A friend of mine just inherited a very nice resort hotel, and I am sometimes tempted to run off and be his entertainment director...

    Oh, and Melonie, they might need jails and police on these island paradise locations, unless of course the criminals could hire the most expensive lawyers ala OJ Simpson and Michael Jackson.

    But wait--that would mean courts, and judges, and legal secretaries, and...oh shit, here we go...
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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    re the Knights Templar, the 'tin foil hat' crowd would contend that the force behind the original organization was never 'decapitated' and still exists to this day, still wields tremendous economic power over world leaders and markets etc. i.e. the Bilderbergers.

    re law enforcement in Malta, I would speculate that anyone with Michael Jackson's or OJ Simpson's financial resources would never need to hire Maltese attorneys since charges would never be publically levelled ... but maybe I'm wrong about this.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Yeah, I read a fascinating book about four years ago about that, damn I forget the name now...

    It started aff as a meticulously researched, completely professional work, and gradually got more and more like The DaVinci Code, lol.

    Most of it was great, and that made the wilder assertions towards the end much more plausible, but still, a bit much.

    Nonetheless, for the historical research alone, it was a great read. They also got into some interesting biblical discrepancies concerning the crucifixion, but I'm not getting into that here, lol...

    So if charges were never leveled (and I suspect you're correct, lol) how would they keep from killing each other off?
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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    So if charges were never leveled (and I suspect you're correct, lol) how would they keep from killing each other off?
    That's the beauty of Malta's lack of a physical residency requirement. All anyone has to do is rent an apartment ... they don't actually ever have to 'live' in it !

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    From what I can tell, lots of celebs and business owners do that. They turn up for a few weeks, sort out their paperwork, buy a place and then leave.

    In Europe we have something called the 'Schengen Agreement' which was put in place by the EU and exists between about 10 nations. The upshot is that there are no border frontiers. You can travel from Portugal, through Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Luxembourg, Denmark and Italy (maybe I'm forgetting one or two...) by car or train without showing anyone a passport. In essence, if you live in mainland Europe, you could become a resident in Malta, for example, and spend hardly any time there but live and work in the rest of Europe. Of course, you'd need to be careful not to spend all your time in one place, but you get the drift.

    I'm sorry to say that it wasn't me that came up with this wheeze. From what I can tell, it has been steadily growing for a while. But now with Malta in the EU too, it's expanding.

    If you really like what you see:

    http://www.franksalt.com.mt/letsearch.asp

    It's where I have been doing some of my research re costings. Take a look at a few appartments, click on the photos to see the views and check out those costs!!!! I reckon it must be heaven there!!!!!

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    I am often amazed that people don't prepare ahead of time. I read you guys commenting on this post, and then there is the Spain / Empire thread here too that two of you are contributing to. Don't you worry that you'll be caught up in the mayhem to come in the US? We all know it's coming...

    I'd have thought that finding a little place to rent for peanuts half way round the world would be ideal. Open a local bank account, put some cash in. Declare it. Buy a safe, put some valuables in. Should your US world collapse, which looks increasingly possible, you jump on a jet and count your lucky stars from afar!

    Plus, you will have somewhere to vacation and not worry about the rent. You have paid it already!

    Maybe this is a bridge too far for most.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    yes I'm definitely aware that the US economy and my US$ denominated assets/investments could quickly wind up as 'toast' ... that my effective tax rate could skyrocket to cover future increases in US gov't social program costs etc. This is one of the reasons that I have invested to some degree in precious metals and non US$ denominated investments However, I am aware that if things 'go to hell in a handbasket' that the US gov't could quickly enact capital control regulations which would make it impossible to take my US$ denominated investments with me should skipping the country suddenly appear to be an extremely good idea, meaning that doing so in advance of a coming crisis could make the difference between a comfortable life as an expatriate, versus seeing the 'value' of my US$ denominated investments wiped out, potentially contending with roving bands of 'less than law abiding' newly unemployed poor and homeless people attempting to 'appropriate' my remaining assets for their own use etc.

    I agree with your 'worldly' assessment that most Americans would see such 'drastic' preparations as 'a bridge too far', as the 1930's depression is now a distant memory and most Americans assume that the govt's social welfare programs which 'bailed people out' during the 1930's depression and which they have been taxed to death to pay for over the years will actually come to their rescue in future time of need (ignoring the fact that these programs are already operating on borrowed money given current balance of taxpayers vs benefit recipients)

    ok let me try and summarize your Malta possibility ...

    A retired American with extraordinarily large breasts and a decent sized investment portfolio shells out $US150,000 or so to purchase an 'apartment' on the beach in Malta (i.e. an arrangement equivalent to purchasing a US condo ?). She spends a few weeks in Malta to complete the purchase and the resident 'alien' paperwork. She opens a Maltese bank account linked to her new Maltese address, and can legally transer an unlimited amount of US dollars from US banks into Euros/Maltese Lira in a Maltese bank. She changes the address on her US based brokerage accounts to reflect her new Maltese address, and arranges for the proceeds of dividends and/or stock sales to be transferred to her Maltese bank account. She is then free to travel/live wherever else in the world she wants to. Furthermore, while she isn't using her 'apartment' in Malta the local realtor will rent it out to tourists thus providing a tax free additional income source ?

    As long as this particular American retiree spends less than 183 days per year in the USA, all of her stock and commodity short term gains under the $200,000 foreign income exclusion limit are exempt from US taxes even though they are conducted through a US brokerage account but showing a Maltese legal address. Additionally, the Maltese gov't does not impose their own tax on these short/long term capital gains or dividends.

    Am I getting the correct picture ? If so, then the US income tax savings alone would potentially be worth US$30,000 per year, the 'apartment rental' to vacationers for 6 months every year would potentially be worth yet another $20,000 per year ? I guess the only unanswered questions would concern the actual cost of living in Malta ?
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-04-2006 at 09:30 PM.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    I don't think you are too far off with that assessment.

    The beauty of it though, is that you don't need to purchase. From the rules I have read, you need to arrange a long term lease or buy within the first 12 months of arriving in Malta and that lease needs to be for a minimum value (which I forget, but I thought it was pretty low). Which gives you the chance to try before you buy, so to speak.

    Offhand, I don't know whether dividends are tax free in malta. But the Capital Gains certainly are. It shouldn't be too hard to find out.

    It might be that you'd need to spend a full tax year outside of the USA to fully become non-resident. You'd need to look into it. The UK has a rather odd system like that which if I'm honest, doesn't seem to be too clear to anyone I have asked about it.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, the cost of living is considered 'cheap' when compared with S Europe. Here in N Europe, we consider S Europe to be almost free!!! Remember that it is located between Sicily and Libya. Neither are exactly expensive places to live.

    Other good points ... non stop sunshine. A couple of solar panels and you'd never need pay another electricity bill. EU membership = likely political stability. Close links with the UK = unlikely to ever be invaded. Even in the 2nd World War, Malta wasn't invaded, the island was 'defended' by six men with three fighter planes!! Formerly part of the Commonwealth = English is spoken by almost everyone. Most people have dark wirey hair and Med complection = blondes should have a lot of fun!!

    Down sides ... very little food grown on the island = needs to be imported. Lack of rain water = reliant on desalination. New research suggests that this part of the Med has a lot of Tuna and following the tuna are some VERY large sharks. This might make the famous diving areas a little less appealing.

    If nothing else, this probably warrants a vacation to have a closer look. I certainly plan to.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    To go back to the original point of this thread ...

    I used to know a guy who lives in Cyprus. He works for a very large insurance / investment firm as a broker consultant in the 'offshore' world. He's a Londoner originally.

    The firm he works for is 'based' in Guernsey, but has an admin setup in Dublin. His 'region' is N Africa (Egypt) and the Middle East (Beirut, Lebanon, Kuwait, UAE, Saudi etc).

    He explained to me that Cyprus have rules for tax that relate to the money 'remitted' to the island. Much as Malta does. He remits enough 2 x each year to pay household bills etc and brings back cash from his regular travels (he probably needs to be declaring that - not sure).

    When all said and done, he reckoned that his total tax bill was usually 4/5% of his gross!!!

    If you like to travel and are 'resident' in the right areas, it's quite easy to reduce your tax bills, by fair means or foul. I felt that he was using a little of both, but not 100% sure.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Wow, almost two whole pages of discussion have occurred since I started this!

    When Melonie split this off, I didn't see the split, so I didn't subscribe to the split portion. Since I depend on subscriptions to keep on top of my posts, I just assumed all was quiet...

    Is anything actually happening on that large ship project?? These things, in my experience, tend to go the way of the scrap-heap when people realize that they aren't as economilcally viable as was originally thought.

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    Default Re: split thread - tax free 'Private Islands' for the very rich

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    ...A retired American with extraordinarily large breasts and a decent sized investment portfolio...
    This was my favorite part...

    I'm a bit too foggy right now to do all the math involved in the rest of it, it's vampire bedtime for me, lol--but this is good. Except one thing is puzzling.

    Who could you possibly be referring to, Melonie?
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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