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Thread: Really seems like the biz is in decline

  1. #26
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastridonicus
    My mom.
    That's f*cking funny! Good one...
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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  2. #27
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by itsthatguy
    Renee Zellweger.
    I am fairly sure that I have heard that (rather unusual) name before.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Senior Member itsthatguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Wwanderer
    I am fairly sure that I have heard that (rather unusual) name before.

    -Ww
    She does quite good movies, and someday, someday, maybe I can get ignored by her yelling "I love you!" in some crowded venue. I'm cuter than her ex-husband, anyways..

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Once upon a time having a girl bare her bosom was a big deal. Now we have Paris Hilton sucking cock for the masses and she becomes a celebrity. The good old days of the 90's were no different than today, its the paradigm that has shifted.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    I think hollywood ruined the whole strip club mystique with
    stupid movies like show girls and striptease. Its like a rite of
    passage for every college girl.

  6. #31
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by itsthatguy
    She does quite good movies, ...
    To be clear, I didn't mean to belittle her acting or anything like that; I may well have seen and greatly enjoyed dome of her performances (was she in CHICAGO?). It is just that I don't understand why people are so interested in the private (off stage) lives of actors and actresses...and as a result, I have a very poor knowledge of who they are even.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    The novelty and mystique of stripping has worn off many of the former aficianados. Still new customers are not getting developed as fast as older ones disengage. How does one make new strip club customers? That is, besides give then the opportunity to buy sex in the club, which will ruin an already bardly tarnished situation.?
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  8. #33
    Senior Member itsthatguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Wwanderer
    To be clear, I didn't mean to belittle her acting or anything like that; I may well have seen and greatly enjoyed dome of her performances (was she in CHICAGO?). It is just that I don't understand why people are so interested in the private (off stage) lives of actors and actresses...and as a result, I have a very poor knowledge of who they are even.

    -Ww
    Ah, it's also about the fantasy. My friends and girlfriend can be quite boring, and well...celebrity dirt is fun.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    The clubs haven't adjusted their pricing, layout, and marketing to reflect the change in clientele and spending habits.

    Champagne and VIP rooms are less needed. A jivey DJ who can keep the stage alive, and the tips flowing, along with girls on stage who try to entertain the guys and not just prance around disinterested is essential.

    The DJ also needs to keep pumping up the dances, running dance specials when the floor is slow, and club meetings need to be held where the dancers and management exchange ideas and discuss problems in order to get everyone one the same path to selling the guys.

    A younger crowd is more prevalent and these guys need to be programmed to tip constantly on stage. Look at the BET uncut videos where the guys are standing around the stage with bundles of ones showering the stage with them as they slap the girls on the ass. Leave out the ass slapping, but how many club DJ's lead by example with a bundle of ones and encourage the guys to tip like in the videos?

    If all the younger customers, women included had 20 ones to tip, and enough money to buy 2 table dances in a pumped up party environment, that could replace 3/4 of the dancer income lost from the bigger expense account spenders.

    Remember in Vegas in 96-98 clubs like Cheetah had 6 girls dancing on the various stages and tip rails with garters filled with ones? When the clubs dropped the stage excitement, and the DJ hype, focusing on bigger money, they ruined the business. Now guys feel the clubs are too expensive, and the dancers of today won't talk to them unless they have big money to spend.

    Clubs need to go back to a heavy stage draw, and table dances so guys can look at a strip club as a place to hang out and kick it, buy 2 drinks, tip on stage and get $40 worth of dances. Minimize the high priced upsale as that obviously has become a turnoff.

  10. #35
    Senior Member itsthatguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    The clubs haven't adjusted their pricing, layout, and marketing to reflect the change in clientele and spending habits.

    Champagne and VIP rooms are less needed. A jivey DJ who can keep the stage alive, and the tips flowing, along with girls on stage who try to entertain the guys and not just prance around disinterested is essential.

    The DJ also needs to keep pumping up the dances, running dance specials when the floor is slow, and club meetings need to be held where the dancers and management exchange ideas and discuss problems in order to get everyone one the same path to selling the guys.

    A younger crowd is more prevalent and these guys need to be programmed to tip constantly on stage. Look at the BET uncut videos where the guys are standing around the stage with bundles of ones showering the stage with them as they slap the girls on the ass. Leave out the ass slapping, but how many club DJ's lead by example with a bundle of ones and encourage the guys to tip like in the videos?

    If all the younger customers, women included had 20 ones to tip, and enough money to buy 2 table dances in a pumped up party environment, that could replace 3/4 of the dancer income lost from the bigger expense account spenders.

    Remember in Vegas in 96-98 clubs like Cheetah had 6 girls dancing on the various stages and tip rails with garters filled with ones? When the clubs dropped the stage excitement, and the DJ hype, focusing on bigger money, they ruined the business. Now guys feel the clubs are too expensive, and the dancers of today won't talk to them unless they have big money to spend.

    Clubs need to go back to a heavy stage draw, and table dances so guys can look at a strip club as a place to hang out and kick it, buy 2 drinks, tip on stage and get $40 worth of dances. Minimize the high priced upsale as that obviously has become a turnoff.
    My first club, my favorite club had a lot of stage excitement and specials. Well, the girls hated the t-shirt dances but I bought them as long as they signed them. Shower shows, and you could get a dance from the girl straight out of the shower.
    I don't have much variety here, there's one frightening club (frightening custys), one club with girls that ends up with uh, let's be polite, anybody with a heartbeat, and a club that does have attractive, fit girls who don't hustle much. A girl I really, really liked on looks alone would do a stage set, walk right off the stage and pout in the corner, smoking. Yeah, she quit.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    i think that's interesting about minimizing the upsell...

    men that have only 40 or 50 bucks to spend on girls don't want to pay that for say, two lapdances in vip.

    quite frankly, if i danced on stage more often during the night and men were "programmed to tip"

    well, i'd make a lot more money.

    we do have $10 dances at my club, though. it's just that i barely see anyone doing them. i rarely do them myself.

    my club has three stages, but we rarely see even two in use because of such low customer volume.

    we also get men who will sit by the stage all night and not tip anyone...if no one tips, they just shut the second/third stage down.

    i think it's possible to get these guys in and out and actually spending their pocket change.

    maybe if the people running the place actually did something to try to get the men to spend money their money in that fashion, it would work.

    management doesn't do anything to encourage the guys to tip.

    i think i'll try to go tip more girls (with custy's money) to see if i can build that sort of mindset at individual tables...like a mini focus group.

    i know that when i worked at a club where there were no drink sales (byob) and a vip style contact dance was $20 on the floor, a lot of guys would go ahead and shell out $20 for one dance. then i'd be off and running to the next guy and that's how we all made $$$.

    that club had a lot of guys tipping, too. i could make an easy $30 on stage weekends because we waved our coochie in their faces (required) and that is taboo, which equals exciting.

    tits in the face just isn't exciting to anyone anymore.

    so basically, i am agreeing with previous post:

    structure of most clubs is upsell and vip. not working when guys have less dough. there is no way for them to spend what they have in smaller increments, so we get even less out of them than we could. people aren't encouraged to tip because the focus is on the upsell...which isn't worth it to them.

    if we have smaller upsells, we can still upsell. like the $20 dances with no vip cover (b/c virtually no vip)

    but we need to focus on getting money out of their pockets in a way that makes them comfortable and make the atmosphere novel and exciting.

    i am going to try this next time i work (the tipping...tipping on stage and getting more men to tip me while i'm at the table as opposed to only hustling a vip dance....at least i'll get something out of them if they can't afford vip)

    oh, yeah...and there are WAY too many clubs in my area. topeka has 6 strip clubs and can't support that.

    i can't do anything to tighten the market. 3 of these clubs are owned by the same people. i think that is part where we (dancers) are really screwed.

    but we DO need to tighten the market. with fewer clubs, competitition between girls would be rough, but we'd basically see dancers leaving the industry until we had the right amount of girls in the club and of course, we'd have more business per club.
    i can't really do anything about that, though.

    one club in my area will be out of business soon...that can only help everyone else.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    As a self employed person I'm seeing a demand for more services at the same or lesser charge every year I'm in business. People are simply more desperate and are getting into every business imaginable to make a buck as they lose their old positions or need to supplement a dwindling retirement. Not exactly the problem dancers have but symptoms of
    a generally poor economy felt by us all. I really don't see a turn around either because we simply don't do anything in America anymore. No factories, building boom is cooling, outsourced tech and white collar jobs, more service oriented jobs which usually means less discretionary income.........it looks bleak and the list goes on

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by bellyflower
    management doesn't do anything to encourage the guys to tip.
    This is because they want more of that customer money for themselves, plain and simple. As long as we can somehow manage to keep paying house fees, they couldn't care less how we make it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by not_a_custy
    As a self employed person I'm seeing a demand for more services at the same or lesser charge every year I'm in business. People are simply more desperate and are getting into every business imaginable to make a buck as they lose their old positions or need to supplement a dwindling retirement. Not exactly the problem dancers have but symptoms of
    a generally poor economy felt by us all. I really don't see a turn around either because we simply don't do anything in America anymore. No factories, building boom is cooling, outsourced tech and white collar jobs, more service oriented jobs which usually means less discretionary income.........it looks bleak and the list goes on
    Yep.

    Lots of talk of this in dollar den.

    The "positive attitude" strategy can only go so far.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    The clubs haven't adjusted their pricing, layout, and marketing to reflect the change in clientele and spending habits.
    This seems very accurate, and a testament to the notoriously poor SC management prevalent in most of the country.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Now that social mores about nudity have loosened, just getting naked or mostly naked is not enough of a draw. At the same time, strip clubs are becoming more mainstream, and that's not a bad thing -- dancers just haven't learned to capitalize on the crowds of young men and women that come in on the weekends to make the scene. The clubs are happy because they get their cover charge and drink money, but these groups don't tip the stage that much and rarely buy dances. And honestly, if they are there to be entertained by the stage, they are probably very bored.

    Very few girls at my club bother to put on much of a performance beyond a few pole tricks, because stage is not where they make their money. I think VIP rooms and upsells have made us lazy. I know I make pretty good money, even though I am a mediocre stage dancer at best. Maybe if we made more effort with the performance/stage side of things, customers would come for the show, not the handjobs.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    the quality of dancers as a whole has gotten very sleazy.lots of 20's somethings that don't give a second thought to jerking or sucking a guy off in the club

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by texxx55
    the quality of dancers as a whole has gotten very sleazy.lots of 20's somethings that don't give a second thought to jerking or sucking a guy off in the club
    I won't disagree with this statement. Although I have been dancing over 10 years now, I won't adjust myself to that kind of behavior. In my mind, I should just be a prostitute where I could make more money then to be giving extras in a club. At this point in my life, I can't see performing extras. I am not raking in the money by any means-I am barely working. I am focused on going to school full time. I have seen the decline and the ever-increasing competitive nature of this business, and I have tried to adjust to the decline(not pertaining to any extras).
    Personally, I am working on transitioning out of this business. It is dying and I must face the fact that I am not 18 and naiive as hell-as I once was. I am not old, but I am older now.
    I am not trying to say I look my age. I am mistaken for 23, 24..It all depends...The club I work at now I sometimes decline work from due to the fact that I am focused on school right now.
    This business used to be more enjoyable..now I am over the bad rep it has(this is just me)at least in the area I live.
    Therefore, I am going to take my time and transition out of the business as I see fit.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    As one of the older customers, albeit one who is still well financed and is not leaving the market, I think Tina had it right.

    I can't remember the last time a club felt exciting the moment I walked in. Stage shows may not be profitable of themselves, but an exciting one sure sets the atmosphere for spending elsewhere -- it makes customers eager to sit down for a while to see what is going on, and if the dancers do their jobs those customers will find something to spend money on.

    Maybe music videos have made gyrating nudity a commonplace, but can they really compete with a live show that is well produced, with pumped up music in an energizing atmosphere with lots of pretty women circulating through the crowd?

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    Nowadays the dancers who are newer to the industry feel dancing is all about the $500-$1000 nights, and focusing on finding the handful of guys who "seem" to have money, while avoiding the rest of the crowd.

    There are never going to be enough guys to go around who have money and who are willing to blow large chunks of it in a strip club.

    At some point the owners and managers may think long and hard about my philosophy, when it becomes hard to attract dancers due to the poor earnings reputation the stripping industry will ultimately get. Big club owners cannot continue to rely on collecting housefees from more girls than the club needs day after day, to compensate for the declining customer count. Their bubble will eventually burst just as the housing market is.

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    Default Re: Really seems like the biz is in decline

    I agree with you Tina.

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