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Thread: California going republican

  1. #26
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Well Im only basing my posts on what I know. Why don't you inform me about some of those things happening under Clinton if you have any knowledge of that? Thanks.


    NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
    The War They Wanted, The Lies They Needed
    Europe rights watchdog says CIA prisons, rendition flights involve 'web' of nations
    Bush challenges hundreds of laws
    Bush shuns Patriot Act requirement

  2. #27
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Just off the top of my head... there was an unprovoked war or two in Eastern Europe designed to distract the public from sexual dalliances. There were untold numbers of citizens subjected to unwarranted arrest, search, and seizure (as well as police execution), mostly due to the "War on Drugs." (Only some drugs; pharmaceutical companies still keep most of the population doped up on something.) Google "Echelon" for evidence of NSA spying on telephone conversations. As for torture etc., I'm sure it happened because it always has; it's only now that someone is bringing it up.

    Nothing new under the sun. At least Clinton was an intelligent, likeable guy though.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Well Im only basing my posts on what I know. Why don't you inform me about some of those things happening under Clinton if you have any knowledge of that? Thanks.
    Ever heard of the "Clipper Chip"? Under whose watch as President was this program being developed?

    http://www.epic.org/crypto/clipper/

  4. #29
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Im certainly not in favor of the clipper chip, but I again must point out that this does not even come close to rising to the level of the things I referenced.

    As to the characterizations of the balkans conflicts as 'unprovoked', I would take issue, and I would like to hear about the falsehoods and misrepresentations that Clinton made to the American people prior to this that was equivalent to lying about uranium in the State of the Union speech by Bush, or the outing of a CIA agent by Cheney. I would also like you to compare the cost in lives between those wars and this one. Perhaps it would also be instructive to compare how successful those military operations compared to this one.

    Echelon was not used domestically until Bush ordered it in 2002: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1216-01.htm

    But don't get me wrong. I despise Clinton. He was the ultimate corporatist Democrat. A very competent President, though. It's amazing how the current administration is both evil and incompetent, I don't know whether their incompetence is a blessing or a curse, we might be in more trouble if they were competent.

  5. #30
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: California going republican

    ANY successful career politician is going to be "corporatist." That's how they get to be where they are. No one in Congress, the White House, a governor's mansion, whatever, is there because s/he is working for the people. They know who took them to the dance.

    That's why we have third parties. When politicians (or parties) get too comfortable and forget who voted for them, then it's time to bring in someone who can still remember.

  6. #31
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Well no I don't agree with you that any successful politician is going to be a corporatist. Tuesday night we won the Democratic primary for the Senate for Jon Tester , a family farmer, an organic farmer, and a great guy, I've met him a bunch of times and let me tell you - he's no corporatist. We won in a landslide despite being almost written off a few months ago, underdogs against a better financed candidate, son of a politically connected family, and we won by people talking to people, and a huge grassroots volunteer effort. Come November we are gonna send him to Washington and shake things up a bit.

  7. #32
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: California going republican

    Wait until he gets a term or two under his belt. Trust me, he'll forget all about you. If not, you got lucky with one. But if he wants any power, he's going to play the game and deep down I bet he knows that.

  8. #33
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: California going republican

    And why do you say that without knowing him? 'Real power' - if he is elected Senator he will have real power, especially if Dems take the Senate. If he were running as a Libertarian instead of as a Democrat would you feel differently? Why?

  9. #34
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: California going republican

    No, I probably wouldn't feel differently, except that a Libertarian at this point wouldn't have the monolithic backing of the Democratic Party behind him so he would have to stay a little closer to his roots. For awhile, anyway. But if you think Nancy Pelosi or Howard Dean or any other prominent Democrat gives two shits about the people, then I can't help you.

    I'm sure your Tester guy is a wonderful person. But if he gets elected to the Senate and lasts a couple of terms, I'd bet my car that he'll start caring much more about staying in the Senate than shaking up his corporate sponsorship.

  10. #35
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: California going republican

    I'll take that bet. And I think you should wait till someone actually has corporate sponsorship before you level that charge at them.

  11. #36
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: California going republican

    I hope you're right. It would be a refreshing change.

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