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Thread: seeing a stripper outside the club

  1. #26
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner
    Kudos to Bridgette for a perfect post and to the wonderfully sexy and insightful Nicolina for finding a way to improve on it (even though she and I do not exactly agree on her point.) I'd explain the disagreement, but....
    Perhaps just the difference in perspective between a high-rolling regular and a dancer who couldn't bring herself to cultivate OTC regulars no matter how they rolled...

    Sounds like there is miscommunication between Smith and his girls, assuming they agree to see him OTC (and don't stand him up.) Based on the information he provided, it sounds as if the girls are interested in a mutually-beneficial sugar-daddy type relationship, and are seeing him OTC in order to determine whether this would be a possibility. Meanwhile, he wants to take money out of the equation altogether and turn his ATF into his girlfriend.

    I repeat: Ain't gonna happen.

    He actually seems to have figured it out himself. Like he said: Any 'relationship' that starts out this way will be doomed to fail at about three months, give or take.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    B is quite right, and Nic is mostly right, as both girls are speaking to the all important issues associated with having realistic expectations within the unrealistic environment of the SC.

    That said, I'm pretty jaded as a customer, but sometimes when you're seemingly not paying attention, OTC still happens.
    Excuse me...mostly right???

    I never ever claimed that OTC doesn't happen; in fact, I told the story of how I met my psycho BF in a club.

    I'm not saying that a customer can't date a dancer. I'm saying that a PL can't turn his ATF into his GF.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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  3. #28
    Veteran Member NoCoverLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed
    I think there are a number of reasons why it makes little sense for a single guy to visit a SC... the one aspect most relevant to this thread is the greater ease w/ which a single guy might lose perspective and find himself in the emotional quagmire of a SC pseduo-relationship, such as with an "ATF." It appears that the OP may have lost some of his perspective. Of course, this happens to many a married man as well (as many blue threads teach. ).

    OTOH, kudos to all you single clubbers who keep it real, and have a good time doing so. (E.g., Mastirodonicus (sp.?) strikes me as this type.)
    I myself operate in exactly the opposite way.

    I almost never visit the SC when I'm in a relationship, primarily because I don't need to. I'm getting all I want at home (or wherever else we are). I have taken one of my SO's to the club, maybe once a month, at her request. That's a whole different ballgame!

    I mostly go when I'm not in a relationship and haven't been for a while. Trust me, do not go when you are freshly out of one. You'll go down in flames!!

    When I'm in between romances, it fills the time nicely...

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastridonicus
    I really don't have much time, but I need to post here. I love how every guy posts about how different they are. You're not. You're male...
    Having a dick, balls, and a preponderance of masculine hormones does not mean my behavior around scantily clad women is going to be the same as every other motherfucker with these physical characteristics.

    From my experience in observing all kinds of customers over the years, there is a wide variety of motivation and expectation in play, though there are certain types which make up large percentages.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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  5. #30
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by dayzed

    Personally I don't understand why single guys would even be doing any serious strip clubbing.
    Since the thread seems to be going off in this direction, I'll say: It's not too common to see a really young, single, never-married guy who is also a SCJ. However, older, newly-divorced guys are par for the course--and understandably so.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Excuse me...mostly right???
    Just checking to see if you're paying attention.

    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  7. #32
    Member Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Nicolina:
    Thanks for the input. I unfortunately can't disagree with anything you said. Would you give me the benefit of the doubt, assume it is not immutable, and tell me how to fix it if there is a remote chance? You seem to understand my situation better than I do.

    Bridgette:
    I found your comments insightful. I'm embaressed but you are probably dead-on right about being seen as a wallet in most but not all of the past short stripper relationships I've been in. But, I don't agree about that analysis currently so let me give you some more information. I guess I can't get honest and necessary feedback without providing enough information though right?

    In the current relationship, the girl is not stripping anymore (more than a month). I told her I wanted to get her a ymca membership ($40/month) so we could work out together and so that she could get a two hour break from her kid anytime she absolutely needs to have it (which has been quite often since she quit stripping). The YMCA here will babysit free for two hours. I suggested I was worried that doing this would make me be seen as a wallet. I also have loaned her my extra cell phone for which I pay and told her she could borrow all the money she needs until her new job pays well (she has paid back previous loans) (see also some examples below for details of the nature/situations when money is given). When I suggested this over the phone she was annoyed and flat out denied she thought of me as a wallet stating that if she saw me as a wallet she wouldn't have quit dancing and given me up as a predictable source of income. The most she will admit to is that we "really are friends now", which even three weeks ago she would not. She promises me that she will tell me when she decides anything about a relationship and not to string me along once she has. She won't admit that we are dating yet only "testing the waters" for that. Shortly after our first OTC activity, she said "we have to be friends first or what would we really have" and that we need to take things step by step. Fine by me although I refer to her to her as "my naked friend" not as "just a friend" because it makes her giggle and one is positive description and one is negative description (that may or may not be entirely correct).

    cherry_sin. You stated:
    SHE will bring it up - and follow through on it. It has to be her call or you guys will have that doomed relationship...
    My current stripper friend brings up every OTC activity! She follows through on them (for the most part still). It has been her call! I think that is the problem though and why it is doomed! Odd you bring up shopping, but our last meet up was to shop at Walmart and then eat at Subway. She thought she had enough money but her sister misestimated the cost of chemicals for her small pool. She brought $50 but it cost $80. She did not take for granted that I would give it to her. After spending 5 minutes trying to find a way to make her $50 get everything critical while I entertained her kid, she did ask although not in an expecting sort of way if I could help out. She's paid back loans in the past, and I could care less really if she did as long as we are both happy. Before we parted she asked if it would be ok if she could borrow $20 more so she wouldn't be broke. I said sure and asked if I could loan her $60 more instead. She knows I do not want her to worry about money. Her new job bartending is of course not providing her with the instant cash she is used to yet.

    Yet there are aspects of even that meeting and others that are just plain "fucked up". She has even admitted she is a bitch for not letting me have any choice on what we do when I recently (half) jokingly ridiculed her about it. I had to as she would not even let me choose that we should walk to the closer of the two Walmart entrances! Also, she interrupted me and stopped me from speaking when I suggested there was a nearby restraraunt that her kid and us too would LOVE (i.e. better than Subway). She rejected it without even letting me name the restraraunt!

    It was not just that meeting. For our first OTC meeting on the day she decided to quit stripping she gave me a whole ten minutes to plan then she rejected the first two restraraunt suggestions before finally agreeing to my third choice (which incidentally was a great choice if I may boast although not as good as either of the first two I suggested). I had a nice but new restraraunt (and thus not busy) give us one of the best tables in the place for lunch. It was in a section of the restraraunt that was not even open for seating so we had privacy to discuss all the stripper crap that might embaress her otherwise. On our second OTC meeting, at the last moment she told me we were going to the last place we ate instead of the place I choose and planned for us at her request. She also invited a stripper friend of hers and a customer of her friend that her friend sees outside the club (not sex's... sees).

    I try to not be a supplicating fool that she can't respect but she won't let me not be that due to our prior(?) customer relationship. We seem to eat only at either Subway or at that fancier restraraunt lets call it "Restraraunt M" which I expect are both getting boring. She scheduled a "double date" which itself is a horrible idea for a "second date" ask ANY guy. Not only was it a "double date" but it was one with a "couple" that was such a poor role-model! Neither of us were comfortable in the encounter which makes it my fault because I briefly held her hand "in front of them". Ok, she won't call them "dates" and of course "friends don't hold hands". I don't disagree with any of her truths. But do you see the pattern?

    She says she respects me but how can she or more likely how much longer will she if occasionally our dates "go bad" and I let her control things (and me!) so completely. I do admit that she needs to be in control to more of a degree than normal as she knows what "steps" we need to go through for her to be entirely comfortable making this awkward transition. I expect we'll give up even trying before making it or always be "trying to make it".

    mutually-beneficial sugar-daddy type relationship, and are seeing him OTC in order to determine whether this would be a possibility. Meanwhile, he wants to take money out of the equation altogether and turn his ATF into his girlfriend. I repeat: Ain't gonna happen.
    What exactly is a mutually-beneficial sugar-daddy type relationship? Only reason I try to make things less money-centric is they don't want to feel like they are prostitutes or escorts. I've given them money whenever there is an excuse to although I'm not sure exactly why I do. Perhaps why I am is because I care about them and because it makes me feel useful to them or good for sharing with them what I have hoping they will share good things in their life too. But thinking back I guess it makes them feel like I'm buying them? Is this the problem or the solution or just a complication. *sigh* I'm so confused. In an ideal world, [edit: I would want the current one or a future one with similar great qualities be someone to marry] So whatever steps could lead to that. But hell I'm happy with just an honest friendship. Or something that involves money but does not make either of us feel dirty about it. Whatever you suggest that works is better than what has happened in the past because that seems to self-destruct for me.
    Last edited by Smith; 06-15-2006 at 03:55 AM.

  8. #33
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Man, that post is way too long... you are overthinking this. If you like her, just enjoy hanging out with her... don't analyze every little thing... mellow out.... fuck all the rules people are throwing at you here or that you have programmed into your head. Just be yourself and appreciate her for who she is. Enjoy the day, you never know, it might be your last.


    on edit: yeah, it was so long, I didnt read it, but I just caught this part:

    In an ideal world, I want them to eventually be my wife so whatever steps could lead to that.
    you want 'them' to eventually be your wife?

  9. #34
    Member Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    I appologize for the length! Everytime I was about to post, I'd check and five more people had replied making it seem like there was an entirely new aspect that needed to be addressed in order to get good feedback. I went back and deleted half of it for yall. Hope that helps a little.
    Last edited by Smith; 06-15-2006 at 03:59 AM.

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Man, that post is way too long... you are overthinking this. If you like her, just enjoy hanging out with her... don't analyze every little thing... mellow out.... fuck all the rules people are throwing at you here or that you have programmed into your head. Just be yourself and appreciate her for who she is. Enjoy the day, you never know, it might be your last.


    on edit: yeah, it was so long, I didnt read it, but I just caught this part:



    you want 'them' to eventually be your wife?

    The Utah clubs would be a good place to start.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    Just checking to see if you're paying attention.

    That's good, lol...
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  12. #37
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    Just checking to see if you're paying attention.


    Thats right cas.
    Take her down a notch...

    Then....Tie her up....and do things to her....
    People are not ruled by their memories.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    ^Okay, the people on this board are getting to know me waaaay too well.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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  14. #39
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    "People?!"
    Uhm

    I do not believe the three of us qualify for such a broad generalization. At least, not to you, hopefully.

    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Featured Member kikin's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Oh, my goodness! This is such a wonderful thread...Now I don't feel so bad for not tipping or not buying dances even as I sit there and gawk at the naked girls all night. Because I would hate for them to lose Respect for me, ya know.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    ^Well, judging from Smith's last post, I'd say the lack of respect is mutual.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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    Featured Member kikin's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Smith sounds like a nice guy. His problem is that guys like him strippers will chew and spit out every time. Smith, you gotta be a little meaner to these girls. They don't like nice guys. Number 1: stop giving them money even if they ask.

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    I'll own up to being good friends with several dancers - and the first point is that we never meant it to happen; we just drifted into it.

    I think we would have been friends anyway; we just met in an unusual environment. We soon found we liked each other, and the friendship progressively moved away from work. (Not always at a quick pace, because dancers have every reason to be cautions about letting someone they've met at work into their private life).

    Money has never been part of the equation - from either side. Friendship is incompatible with being part of someone's income stream. If I go to pick them up from work, they'll expect to be brought a drink or two but not tipped. (Their opinoin is that customers tip - friends don't, and a drink from a friend is very welcome).

    Their nudity is not part of the equation either - if I pick them up from work they prefer me not to pay much attention. They're relaxed about being nude when I'm about - they just prefer me to be very casual and matter of fact about it. Don't stare, don't regard it as an erotic stimuli, and generally just be cool about it.

    As far as friendship goes it's just that; we're far, far more interested in each other as individuals that we ever were as dancer/customer. Life's too short to pass up spending time with people you're comfortable and relaxed with. If we can spend enjoy spending time with each other, then our lives are more pleasant.

    I've helped one dancer with her studies, and I've just got a phone call from her to say she's got very good results. I'm helping out another with a problem in her private life, and it's personally very important to me that I do so. She's a very nice individual, I value her friendship and she'll get all the help I'm capable of for that very reason.

    It's not a huge commitment of time on any of our parts; it's just nice to meet for a drink or a meal from time to time. Hell, it's nice just to go round each other's houses and kill a bottle of wine - there's far worse ways of passing an evening.

    Bonus from the dancer's point of view is that they've got a guy in their life whom they've learned to trust about work matters. Means they've got someone who'll give them a lift home at need, who'll watch out for their interests if they do a private show and whom they can blow off steam to without ever worrying their confidence will be betrayed.

    Neither do they have to worry about me being judgemental about what they do. I know, I understand and I refuse to take it seriously.

    From my point of view, I find dancers very interesting to know, because the independent point of view that took them into dancing means they've got a wider than usual range of interests - and I love people who make me think about something I would never have known about but for them.

    I'll freely grant developing what's become quite a close friendship with several dancers is not the most usual thing that can happen - but it does from time to time.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Then....Tie her up....and do things to her....
    Dude, I'm pretty far back in that line, by my estimation.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Smith, you're still not getting it. You are NO DIFFERENT than any other guy she gets money from. You are a CUSTOMER. Despite the fact she's not dancing lately, you're still giving her money. You are STILL a customer. Please stop trying to tell yourself you're different. You simply are not. All the PL RILs want to think they are, but they're not. Ever.

    You are ignoring my statement about Rule #1: You can't have a meaningful relationship with someone you've been paying to strip for you. Particularly if you've been a regular customer. Yeah, maybe it happened once out of 10,000 examples. That surely doesn't mean it will happen again or that you will be the one it happens to. This girl still sees you as a wallet or at the very least, someone who can help her with something. Not as real relationship potential. And if you're looking for a wife this way - all I can say there is, not going to work.

    Finally, you're overanalyzing this waaaaayy too much. Another bad sign. If you feel the need to analyze or "explain" it that much, it means you already know, deep down, that it's not working.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Smith, you're still not getting it. You are NO DIFFERENT than any other guy she gets money from. You are a CUSTOMER. Despite the fact she's not dancing lately, you're still giving her money. You are STILL a customer. Please stop trying to tell yourself you're different. You simply are not. All the PL RILs want to think they are, but they're not. Ever.

    You are ignoring my statement about Rule #1: You can't have a meaningful relationship with someone you've been paying to strip for you. Particularly if you've been a regular customer. Yeah, maybe it happened once out of 10,000 examples. That surely doesn't mean it will happen again or that you will be the one it happens to. This girl still sees you as a wallet or at the very least, someone who can help her with something. Not as real relationship potential. And if you're looking for a wife this way - all I can say there is, not going to work.

    Finally, you're overanalyzing this waaaaayy too much. Another bad sign. If you feel the need to analyze or "explain" it that much, it means you already know, deep down, that it's not working.

    All he has to do is cut off the gravy train and she'll likely come around. Even if he doesn't, he's better off financially.

    Another candidate for "not another dime."

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    I'm betting when the gravy train is cut off, so will be the "friendship". I've never seen it work out differently - at least not on a meaningful level, which is what he says he wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    I'm betting when the gravy train is cut off, so will be the "friendship". I've never seen it work out differently - at least not on a meaningful level, which is what he says he wants.
    In theory, you are correct.

    In theory, women also don't date liars, cheaters, abusers, drug addicts, and criminals.

    In theory.

  24. #49
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Yeah, but you're comparing apples to oranges now. A relationship tends to remain the way it was initially set up. When it's set up in such a way that one is paying the other for "personal" services, it will tend to stay that way until one or both ends it completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  25. #50
    Featured Member Crow's Avatar
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    Default Re: seeing a stripper outside the club

    Apply this - would you openly and actively pursue someone to date at your job?

    What makes this any different. Different setting, same principal.

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