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Thread: Riiiight

  1. #1
    Senior Member bite's Avatar
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    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    OK either I am the exception here, or the article is full of stupid stereotypes that aren't really accurate(I'm beginning to think a little of both)...but I had all of the "stripper problems" BEFORE I was a stripper, and these problems subsided WHILE I've been dancing. For example, substance abuse and alcoholism...do you know that I was guilty of BOTH of these things before I started dancing, then stopped doing drugs because I didn't want the managers to fire me, since my first dancing job was the only real chance I had to make money? Pre-stripping, I abused drugs/alcohol because I was unhappy with my life and the direction of my so-called "career". I aced college to end up working in dead-end shitty retail & related jobs, so my career and my finances sucked, resulting in a lot of other things in my life sucking as well. For example, I ended up carless with no way to get around, my career status hindered my ability to attract respectable/responsible guys, I was constantly sick & without health insurance, etc. THESE were the things that drove me to drink & abuse drugs, so that I could escape the crappy realities of my life. I was so eager to escape my impoverished, dead-end lifestyle, that I didn't mind cutting the substance abuse outta my life if it meant having a job that would allow me to make more money so I could improve my lifestyle and afford the necessities--e.g., car repairs, health insurance, 3 square meals per day, etc.

    I've been dancing for a year and a half, and so far dancing has not gotten me into any new problems. OK, maybe with the exception of a recent dependency on Red Bull and caffeine. But then again, I only started drinking Red Bull recently because of all the 10pm-6am shifts...when I was working til only 2am in Philly clubs, I never drank Red Bull. Because the job is all based on tips(no hourly rate or base pay), I've also learned to curb my constant senseless talking to coworkers. (At my retail jobs, we were paid an hourly rate and did menial, tedious tasks that allowed me to work and gossip at the same time; whereas with dancing, I can talk sometimes but I have to keep my trap shut during such activities as couch dancing!! unless I'm talking TO the customer at his request) LOL.

    As far as child abuse? Haaaa if anything, I might be "psychologically messed-up," but for the severe opposite. When I was younger, I had a very difficult time getting dates or getting guys to find me attractive. Guys dissed me, ignored me except to insult me in very hurtful ways such as calling me "flat" in front of entire classrooms, etc. On top of that, I had very overprotective(but loving) parents who were strict, old-fashioned, and tried to prolong telling me about sex as long as they could. Over time, I developed a very aggressive, almost slutty approach when dealing with guys and I've also developed a rather bullying attitude towards guys who insult me or turn me down. LOL yeah maybe I have "issues," but they're not related to sexual abuse, if anything they're related to sexual negligence if you want to really stretch it that far. So I don't work at a strip club because letting guys abuse me "feels like home," if anything I'd be working around abusive assholes so that I can exercise my sarcastic remarks & aggression on them and not feel bad because after all, they're assholes who deserve what they give. Well actually, that's not true...I don't work at the strip club so I can abuse the abusers, the REAL reason I work there is for money...because without stripping, the only jobs I'd be able to get would pay me under $10/hr and require a high school diploma at best(I hold a Bachelor's degree).

    OK that's my rant! Bottom line, from my personal experiences I'd say that I disagree with most of what the article claims.

  3. #3
    Featured Member Miss_Luscious's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I HATE these types of articles! They just promote the stereotype of strippers and MANY of the girls I have danced with in the past 4 years do not fit this (myself included). People always feel sorry for strippers. How unbelievable is it that we actually LIKE our jobs and we aren’t re-living some childhood rape or some other nonsense? I'm not saying there are no dancers that have these problems but I am not one of them and I'll bet a good percentage of the women on here aren't either!

    This shit pisses me off!
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

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    Featured Member AkashaM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I dunno...I sorta think alot of that stuff is true. maybe the #'s are skewed, but i would say in the spot that i currently workin many of the girls have alcohol/cocaine addictions. on the job, i have be followed home, i have have been assaulted (verbally and physically), I think it just comes with workin in this biz.

    Of course, knowin ppl with drug addictions can be at ANY place of employment. my club caters to execs & VIPs and theyre the ones who bring the drugs to the girls!

    overall dancing, porn, and prositution businesses attraact ppl with problems (the ones who need to make a quick $--for whatever reason) yes of course, theres the single moms, the students, and ppl who enjoy entertaining and making good $ at it. but the reality is SCs attract ANYONE who needs $ in a hurry.
    I'm getting my Dial-A-Stripper service up and running again. If you are in NYC or NJ and are interested in private party dancing, email [email protected] with your SW handle, contact info, photo (if you have one) & best time to call and I'll get back to you asap.

    If you're having a party and need strippers, email me with the details and any questions you have. Thanks!

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Notice how the author does not have an appendix of her resources? That isn't journalism, it is propaganda designed to a specific audience of non-thinkers (sheep) who never question authority.

    Switch the title from sex workers to Viet Nam vets, and change the word sexual abuse to just "child abuse" and you can have an equally plausible article.

    I guess basically I'm calling the article bullsh*t.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Damage to Viet Nam Vets which precedes working in the Military

    Most Viet Nam Vets, as with other soldiers who work durring war time, are adult survivors of childhood abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that 35% of Viet Nam Vets have Multiple Personality Disorder, 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder, and 60% had Major Depressive Episodes, These are severe psychiatric problems and many of them are connected to childhood abuse. These are men who when they were little boys would get into their beds each night and roll themselves into a fetal position and every night he would come in and beat him. The physical and visual invasion of little boys bodies damages them psychologically and gives them a psychologically unhealthy view of violence. Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as soldiers, drug dealers, and criminals. The enemy who, now as combatants physically and visually invade the adult men's bodies, reenact the role of the perpetrator of childhood abuse. These men work in the military because it feels like home.

    I put into bold where I changed the article to the new subject. Still makes sense, doesn't it?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess RoseWhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I've only skimmed this so far, but one line jumped out at me immediately: "Plastic surgery is almost invariably required[.]" Uh, what? "Required"? Excuse me? I guess I missed that part of the orientation.

    I can't wait to go through this one some more (or can I?).
    "Before I conceived you, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were here an hour, I would die for you. This is the miracle of life." -- Maureen Hawkins

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    If the sex industry made us healthy, then those in the sex industry would be the healthiest and have the healthiest relationships. The reality is far from that.

    I dunno. I think this is an interesting way to look at it; I mean, c'mon - would we really contest, amongst ourselves, that the per capita screw up rate is higher amongst sex workers than, say, dental assistants? On the other hand, I would not argue that few people claim it makes us healthy as much as it does not make us unhealthy.

    However - as much as her viewpoints do seem to pander, there is something to it. For example - anyone care to deny that drug addiction is common in strip clubs? Not inevitable (the extent of my lifetime drug use, for example, was smoking pot twice in high school. And 'shrooms once in college) but frequent. I've never been tipped in cocaine, but I know plenty of girls who have. Take another look in the LO threads regarding sexual assault - anyone want to say that it ISN'T common? Body Business - cosmetic surgery isn't required, and plenty of strippers are overweight (and I don't know any that abuse laxatives. That's more of a model thing, I thought. Laxatives would be... inconvenient in our line), but is there not a steady and ongoing interest in breast enhancement and lipo?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess PaigeDWinter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    THIS!! This is the bullshit I preach about. This is why I actively offer to teach people the truth about the adult entertainment industry! This is why I helped with playwrite's play. This is why I send emails to people like this columnist. People really need to know the truth. I swear. I'm working on a VERY long winded article to put up on my website. Stay tuned.
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    Senior Member Pinup Girl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    ^ VERY long winded hahahaha. It sounds like you are being sarcastic but you aren't. Mwahahaha.

  11. #11
    Member Helle Hairpin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Well. I've always said: Dancing doesn't make girls become psycho fuckups. It's just that more psycho fuckup girls seem to turn to dancing, haha.
    * Helle Hairpin *


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    Veteran Member Aprilleigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    OMG! what a load of bull shit! i didn't even make it through complete paragraphs but skimmed through and still couldn''t believe it.

    quote article>>"Among strippers, eating disorders are rampant. Many of the women starve, vomit, abuse exercise or laxatives to become the unnatural shape that is demanded of them." end quote


    i actually know maybe 1 in 30 dancers that have had eating disorders and most of them recover while dancing because they realise that all forms, shapes and sizes can be (and are) beautiful.

    quote article>>"If men would do this to women in public, what would they do to women in private? Strippers are often raped. <end quote

    ok i give up know, i could go on and on and on about how angry i am to be stereotyped like this. i also feel bad for the customers to be labelled rapists. i met my fiance in a club and believe me, he's never raped anyone and i've never been raped, nor have any of my co-workers while working in the industry. i admit i am aware that there are women in the industry that have had this horrible experience of being raped but most of the time it is before they ever entered the industry and the reason it is more commonly know is because strippers are more open in there sexuality and have been able to express and work through the experience without judgement by fellow workers. i cant imagine the girl at the checkout admitting to her collegue that she's been raped.
    we don't hear about it from "normal" women because they fear admission ( i hope i'm not generalising now)

    i don't know whee i'm going with this but this article disgusted me with it's ignorance
    Appearing at Dreams Gentlemen's Club, Melbourne

  13. #13
    Senior Member bite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Fair enough, there are plenty of disillusioned, cynical idiots in the world with stupid opinions of things on which they really aren't experienced enough to comment. But to publish an article on it? With data you clearly made up? And to put your own name on it, so that everyone can see what an utter tool you really are? ..... I wonder who gave her that PhD....

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    God/dess Polekitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I agree with Paris, I too noticed that the author didnt where they found this information and I also think it was really clever how Paris substituted key words in the article, it just goes to show that articles like these can really be used to put down anyone in any profession and, if you look carefully, arent actually that relevent to strippers or sex workers at all.
    The way I see it, strippers are just like any group of women. Put 50 women in room together and you can garuntee that a certain % will have eating disorders, another % will have been abused, have substance addictions ect. Of course some women in the sex industry will have problems such as these but I very much doubt that this article is a truely acurate depiction of your everyday stripper, porn star or prostitute.
    Im also very concerned but the damning portrail of customers of strip clubs and even men who look at porn. Its ridiculous to suggest that looking at porn turns you into a rapist or sex addict. Im sure that rapists and sex addicts do look at porn, but so do thousands of other men who have no intention of ever being involved in rape or sex addiction and it has no effect on them other than perhaps making them horny!!
    Id be interested to know if the writer has ever even been to a strip club himself, interveiwed any strippers in reference to this article or has ever even looked at any porn himself.



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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I got about halfway through that thing before i had to go visit some of my favorite bondage and bukkake sites.

    Last edited by Nicolina; 06-25-2006 at 06:27 AM.
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


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  16. #16
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    One of the Stripperweb responses to the article seemed to ring true, though: Stripping doesn't make people fucked up, it's that some people with pre-existing problems turn to stripping because they need quick money. Drug addicts who need money for drugs are just one group(of many different groups) who might start stripping to support an already-existing drug habit. Then there is another group, the severely indigent...people who might be in massive debt, facing eviction, left homeless, etc. Yeah the strippers falling in the "indigent" group might have some problems/issues at the time they start stripping, but for these people, I honestly see stripping as a LITERAL way to improve health! For these people, they enter stripping because they can't afford essentials such as rent, adequate meals, health coverage, etc; stripping finally gives them the opportunity to make a salary that is big enough for living comfortably. For example, before I started dancing, I had no health insurance at all and I was staying at a house with barely any working heat; it was a Catch 22, because the lack of heat made me more prone to colds, then I didn't have the medical coverage to see the doctor, so I continuously stayed sick, and it went on like that through the entire winter.

    The article lacks to mention the strippers who simply "use" stripping as a temporary means to an end! The groups of people such as the indigents, college students, people in a financial crisis, etc. We do exist! We are so focused on our goals(whether it be becomming debt-free, establishing a better quality of life, studying, or looking for a "real" job), that we are a lot less likely to get roped in to prostitution or drug use. Like the article, this generalization of "focused" strippers does not apply to all, but it does apply to at least some of us.

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    Veteran Member ChloeTheRed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    I'm also amused by the statistic of "Only 25% of strippers have marriages that last more than three years."
    Percent of what? Strippers in general? Married strippers? Straight strippers?
    And what's the percentage of first marriages of women with the same median age as strippers that last more than 3 years?
    (The later you marry, the more likely your marriage is to last - the majority of marriages of people under twenty end in divorce, the majority of marriages of people over thirty stay together; this is correlation of course, no causation.)

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    God/dess colleen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Isn't this the same woman who wrote that strange and disturbing article about how stripping damamges women, that somebody brings up here once in a while? I'm sure some of you know which one I mean. It is very long and wordy and the writer says she used to work in a strip club and it was a complete hellhole, etc. etc.

    These stereotypes have been around for years. They are silly and pointless. Some of the statistics are sort of "common knowledge" in that I have read them in a bazillion psychology books wehn I was in college. IT is true, I believe, that a higher % of self-reported childhood sexual abuse survivors work in the sex business, and that a high number of sex industry workers are also drug users. My opinion is that the childhood abuse and its afereffects create the drug porblem, which then leads to stripping and other fast-money businesses. Same with the psych disorders. The abuse causes the disorder, which makes it6 hard to hold a straight job, which leads to sex work.

    I and many other survivors (some of whom have posted as much on our board) enjoy our work not because it is comforting to re-enact the abuse, but because it is fun and empowering to tell would-be abusers where to go. Damn, that feels good!

    I especially enjoy the part about how stripping is frought with all sorts of verbal and other abuse. Do you know where I got the most abuse? Radio Shack. Working behind the counter, I was yelled at, had things thrown at me, and even picked up a stalker. I was alone in the store most of the time, and had no protection. I was safer in the bars. And guess where I got the most sexual harassment by supervisors? in the ARMY. THat's right. My military supervisers wer even worse than the nasty old greek restaurent owners I worked for in high school.

    Self-esteem damage is invariable in this profession but, because these are survivors of abuse, some of the strippers claim to feel better about themselves by stripping, This level of denial is typical of untreated survivors and addicts.
    This is funny. I have had more treatment than anybody I know. I have only NEEDED therapy during thise periods when I was not stripping. When I am dancing, I am happy. No denial there.


    BTW, did anybody happen to notice thename of the website that published this? Morality in Media. No surprise, huh?


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    Banned TifaRae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    "One study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder"


    UHHHH thats total BS.

    True multiple personality disorder, if even a real disorder, is extremely, terribly rare.


    "When normal college mates are shown pornography, 50-65% of them then say they would be willing to rape a women if they thought they wouldn't get caught."

    That sounds like bullshit too.

    How accurate is this woman's data?

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    Default Re: Riiiight

    ^OMG, That's exactly what I was gonna say! I just googled it to get a little more info.

    At the time she delivered that little presentation (1999), MPD was not even a valid diagnosis--the DSM was already calling it "Dissociative Identity Disorder."

    From what I understand, it is still a controversial diagnosis. (Any of our mental health professionals or psych students, help me out here?)

    One source says that it is a "confusing" disorder because it is so often comorbid with other psychiatric conditions. Furthermore, most sources list its estimated prevalence at 1%, though that is also a controversial figure; many workers in the field believe it is too high.

    And as you point out, there is still some argument as to whether or not the disorder even exists.

    35%?????

    That figure is outrageous. The author--Ph.D or no--has her head lodged firmly up her ass.
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  21. #21
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Yes Colleen, I agree!!!! I experienced sexual harassment as a good little high school girl working at MCDONALDS. There was a short little guy we nicknamed "Billy McNugget" who was 26yrs old, but would keept trying to hug & kiss us girls and tell us not to tell anyone; he also had a live-in high school aged girlfriend on the side. I also experienced sexism, being cheated out of pay raises/promotions simply because I didn't own a penis, etc. A few years later, my best friend Brian worked at a McDonalds(a different location, though) and there was a lot more rampant drug use(coccaine and pot, specifically) than at any of the clubs I've worked at! The coworkers would deal coke at work with each other and often steal money from the registers. Funny--At my McDonalds, I had quite a bit of money shorted from my paychecks that managers claimed was the amount of money that my cash register came up short; this amount totalled up to like $200 or so within a year, which is funny because I've always been very good with math and on a few occasions, I was commended for having a cash drawer that wasn't a single penny over or under. At Brian's McDonalds, he and his coworkers would sometimes light up a bowl in the freezer, and on a few occasions, his middle-aged coworker friend "Parrot" got caught smoking in the freezer, and they didn't even care!

    I've heard some really bad stories about the military, too!

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    Veteran Member ChloeTheRed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Riiiight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina
    From what I understand, it is still a controversial diagnosis. (Any of our mental health professionals or psych students, help me out here?)

    One source says that it is a "confusing" disorder because it is so often comorbid with other psychiatric conditions. Furthermore, most sources list its estimated prevalence at 1%, though that is also a controversial figure; many workers in the field believe it is too high.

    And as you point out, there is still some argument as to whether or not the disorder even exists.
    It is still exceedingly controversial. I have an acquaintance, a very intelligent and capable woman, who also has multiple personalities. It is well-controlled, but she has has had some serious issues in the past, and will probably always be at a certain amount of risk of having one of the secondary personalities take control. (Interestingly, one of the secondary personalities is capable of shutting everything down, and it seems to be that personality's primary function. This woman's core personality cannot forcibly wrench control from other personalities during an episode, only watch, but she can ask this other secondary personality to "shut it down," which generally results in her passing out, sometimes for extended periods.) She has said she would not make all the other personalities go away if she had the chance, but it also scares her a great deal. She doesn't talk about it almost ever, and hasn't used it as an attention-getting device - the only time I heard about it in any detail was after a breakdown, when she was explaining what had happened, I believe to explain why she was going into seclusion for a while.

    In the hundreds of people I've encountered in my life and discussed personal mental oddities with, she is one of three that as claimed DID/MPD as a personal mental weirdness, and the only one of the three that I have been convinced of/would not diagnose as something different with my self-help-book pop psychology.
    And yes, it sounds like it's almost always/is always compounded by other problems. It seems that the sort of stress that triggers dissociative identity disorder is pretty freaking extreme (childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, extreme mental/emotional abuse, etc), and so it causes a LOT of problems down the line.

    The author is probably talking about people who admit that they put on another "persona" for work. I would argue that virtually everybody has several personas (for work, for friends, for relatives, for dates, etc), it's just that stripping is one of the few professions where we actually name our alternate work persona something other than our given name. Chloe is basically me/Christine (not another age/gender/race and not with significantly different personal philosophies, as frequently happens with DID), just sexier, more confident, and a whole lot more flirtatious.

    Gah. You'd think that with a PhD the author would have any idea what she was talking about, wouldn't yiou?

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    Default Re: Riiiight

    blaaah to this. I love dancing, I absolutely adore it! It's a blast! Even if I could do something else that paid better I don't think I would. For me, this job is fun. It gets me out to clubs at night, I meet new people, it turns me on (that's right, I don't do it because I want to turn other people on, I do it because it turns ME on) it allows me to move around and use my energy rather than standing behind a counter or sitting in an office or something dull like that. I love it, and I was never sexually abused as a child. Yeah I've had a few assholes yell rude things to me at the club but you know what? I've had assholes yell rude things to me on the street too, I mean I live in NY so what do you expect? I've been dancing for 3 years and I've never been raped by a customer or stalked. I hate that anyone would think that a guy is a rapist just because he goes to a strip club, some of them are, I know that, I did have a friend who was attacked once but three other guys beat the shit out of him when they saw it (and those 3 guys had been in the club too). My boyfriend goes to the club sometimes as well as some of my good friends and they're all great people who've shown me more respect than anyone I've ever known. I was abusing drugs for a long time though, that I'll admit, I didn't have much money because most of what i made went to heroine and the equipment I needed to use it, but I've just recently finished rehab (not fun, don't do drugs, rehab is a BITCH) with the help of my boyfriend (also an ex-junkie so he knows what it's like) I didn't start stripping because of the drugs tho, nor did I start doing drugs because of stripping. I started stripping because I needed money and it seemed like an easy way to get started, I continued stripping because I loved it. I started doing drugs because someone offered me some at a party once and I was curious so I tried it and I liked it and before you know it I was hooked--cliche but true. That can happen to anyone. But I'm clean now. I still smoke pot once in a while but I mean, come on, it's weed. And I do drink on the job sometimes, that's true, but I don't have to if I don't want to. It's definitely not a requirement I'm not sure what kind of bullshit that was.

    oh also... "When normal college mates are shown pornography, 50-65% of them then say they would be willing to rape a women if they thought they wouldn't get caught."

    WHAT??? Excuse me, what college kid, male or female, doesn't watch porn??? Are they all rapists?

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