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Thread: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

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    Featured Member GenWar's Avatar
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    Default Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    OK...I had a bad day, so I thought I might cheer myself up by climbing up on my favorite dead horse and seeing if I can get some support for my tired, tired point. This time, a different tact...

    I recently read "Stripped" by Brent Kenton Jordan. And I got permission from the author to quote a passage from his book. So, you see, there are at least 2 people on the planet that think this...I am no longer the lone psycho.

    -----------------------------------------------------
    From "Stripped" by Brent Kenton Jordan:

    Customers are not all lecherous old perverts looking to cheat on their wives and squander fortunes that might have been spent on their children (though some nights, I swear, it feels like that.) The truth is, a customer, whether his wife will ever accept the fact, or if he himself will admit it or not, is in need of much more than sexual arousal when visiting a strip club.

    Based on twenty years of observation, it is obvious to me that sex is not the prime motivating factor for a man to spend his money on a young, virtually naked woman in a strip club (though even the customer may protest that it is).

    The main motivation for the customer lies in the acceptance and caring he may lease, at least for a moment, from another human.

    Acceptance? Caring? From a stripper?! Indeed.

    A man works for a forty-hour week. He received few accolades and is appreciated even less. His co-workers snipe and pick and bitch and whine continually. His teenage children look upon him as a sodded old fool. His wife has too many of her own problems to care - even if she found the energy - and to her, he could never broach the subject of his needs. A man sometimes needs to feel powerful, dominant, needed. The company he works for existed before he came along and will continue to exist after heis gone. His children have their own friends. His wife has been taught by society that it is shameful to lean on a man for total support. He is left with few methods of expressing his nature - what nature originally intended - of a powerful provider, a dominant being.

    Enter the strip club: A man may rent the attention of a young woman: a woman ostracized by society, more innocent than himself in the ways of the world. A young woman who depends on his generousity, his ability to provide. For this ability, he is blessed - for a few minutes, or a few hours - with what he needs the most: The feeling of being needed, of virility, of power - the rood core of primal man - which, despite the attmpted socializing out of this condition, is an integral, inherant part of all men.

    For only a few (or a few hundred) follars, he is transformed. he is attractive, he is powerful, he is virile and compassionate and interesting. Every word from his lips is a treasured gem of wisdom. his body is a Greek god's temple. He is Man. More than Man, he is Conan the Barbarian. He is a superhero come to life. He is the only man on the planet. No one else compares. His job of checking for typographical errors on his company's financial statements is the most fascinating concept the young woman, who devotes her entire attention to him and him alone, has ever heard. The body he had assumed was irretrievably out of condition is a continual source of pleasure for her gently wandering fingers. She understands and appreciates things even his wife cannot. Things that cannot be expressed to friends or co-workers (they have their own problems) are absorbed and accepted by the young woman who dotes on him and him alone. How can he tell his wife of twenty years he feels impotent in life: his dreams are faded, his strength is gone. He can tell this young woman, and she consoles, accepts, vindicates. She convinces him that he is important, strong, virile, needed - at least by her, at least for the moment - and often that is enough.

    -----------------------------------------------------
    All I am looking for is someone (ANYONE!) besides JZ and Mr. Jordan, to feel me on this. Can I get an amen? (P.S. And not just because, after today, I seriously NEED it.)

    -gen
    "See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno

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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Amen!

    About a month back, a dancer I've gotten to be friends with told me the stripclub is like a relationship condom: you follow the rules, act politely and make each other feel good/sexy about each other then go away and really don't worry about them.

    Our wives know how to do this to each other when they get together. How many times are you p**sed off about the $50 candle your wife bought at last night's bunko party from the really shallow supportive gal who is constantly telling your wife how hot she is.

    Guys need SC's.

    And pinkie's there's no way you can understand the true lonliness society imposes on us. Yes, a man wishes that his best guy friend could give him that type of support, but if his wife ever found out he gave another man an ounce of the emotional support without her permission, he'd be in the doghouse.


    "Life is not about the number of breaths you take.
    It's about those moments which leave you breathless."

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Amen!

    Not sure if that is what you had in mind.... but the best I can do.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Gen: If you read enough of my posts you will see that I agree with a fair amount of what you are talking about here. I haven't spent twenty-odd years trolling strip clubs only looking for extras (in spite of the nature of my trip reports), far from it. I have had a blast spending time and money on many beautiful women who never so much as touched me beyond a hello or goodbye hug.

    I will never admit that I go to a club because I dig the stripper shit. That's just not going to come out of my mouth. I have my own belief system and it gets me through the night in the same way that yours does for you.

    My preference is to spend less time worrying about who agrees with me and who doesn't and more time enjoying the ladies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Senior Member LapOfLuxury's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    It's fair to say that it's not ENTIRELY about sex. But your sex drive is the main engine that powers your trip to the club. Otherwise, you wouldn't care about the physical attractiveness of the strippers you spend money on. If it were not about sex at all, you'd be just as happy with 75-year old grannies as strippers. Can't 75-year old grannies give you sympathetic attention?

    If you can tell me that you don't care a bit about the physical attractiveness of the dancers you patronize, I'll agree that it's not about sex for you.

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    Featured Member GenWar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Well, never had a 75 year old granny try an approach, honestly.

    Can I say that I don't care a bit? Nope. However, have I ever turned away an approach based entirely on physical appearance? Not that I can recall. Honestly, any lady in the club will have a fair shot at me. If she is both unattractive AND boring, then it probably won't be a long term thing, sure...however, I can think of many instances when the lady was not exactly an ideal of physical beauty but we spent time because she was articulate, entertaining and fun. (There was this one chick in austin...thin, stringy hair, bruised, track marks...whole nine yards...but she was hilarious. I never bought a dance *shiver* but I sure did laugh as she made fun of the other customers and dancers.)

    I don't feel like I can answer this without being self serving. You'd have to ask the wingman or the mexican. I actually believe there was a point in Vegas where the wingman wanted to ask me "Why do you always chill with the ugly chicks?" but he couldn't be so direct or crass because I might get offended...he was hinting around the topic...it was hilarious.

    -gen
    "See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno

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    CarGuy
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Amen.....

    It's why I like going into the local hillbilly SC. I can spend $500, and basically own the joint, easily spending more than the other 5 customers in the place....yes...you feel like a king, even if it is passing, it sure does help get rid of stress.

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    God/dess mr_punk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar
    All I am looking for is someone (ANYONE!) besides JZ and Mr. Jordan, to feel me on this. Can I get an amen? (P.S. And not just because, after today, I seriously NEED it.)
    Gen, calm down. it's not the Rosetta stone. PLs going to sc to get their ego stroked isn't exactly breaking news, but if it will help...<cough, cough>..Amen.
    Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat

    Alan Marciano
    : Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
    Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".

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    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by LapOfLuxury
    It's fair to say that it's not ENTIRELY about sex. But your sex drive is the main engine that powers your trip to the club.
    I think Jordan could have picked his words more carefully. I guess your argument is that he's overstating the case when he characterizes sex as not the prime motivator. His words:
    The truth is, a customer, whether his wife will ever accept the fact, or if he himself will admit it or not, is in need of much more than sexual arousal when visiting a strip club. Based on twenty years of observation, it is obvious to me that sex is not the prime motivating factor ....
    -Ev
    Last edited by evan_essence; 06-25-2006 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Rethought what I said

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    Veteran Member ChloeTheRed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    I'm a girl, but Amen!

    There's plenty that's about sex going in in stripclubs, not the least of which is the amount of ego-stroking that happens when a guy just gets attention from a pretty young thing. But it sure ain't the "sucky fucky five dolla" affair that some people in the media like to make it out to be.

    I keep arguing that much of what the better strippers do is fulfilling the same function that geisha used to and that hostess clubs do in Japan - companionship, an open ear, sympathy, affection. Nice to know I'm not alone in this idea.

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Well, I'm going to Wichitown tomorrow, so I may have to stop by Borders or B&N and pick this read up.

    Quote Originally Posted by LapofLuxury
    It's fair to say that it's not ENTIRELY about sex. But your sex drive is the main engine that powers your trip to the club. Otherwise, you wouldn't care about the physical attractiveness of the strippers you spend money on.
    Agreed. Although I have to agree with the basic premise that the author was apparently trying to state. The gal at the club who strokes you ego best isn't always the one who is the most physically appealing. In fact, there seems to be a segment of customers who deliberately avoid the bombshells. There are at least three gals on my ATF's Tuesday shift that beat her in the looks department, yet I still continue to go back to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by JZ
    In the last full paragraph, the writer goes over the top about how a man wants to feel. If a dancer is working to make me feel like that, then she's overdoing it, and the ego stroke will falter under the weight of situational insincerity.
    I say stripper shit works its most potent magic when its not so obvious to the customer that he's being hustled. One reason a good lap dance session is often preceded by a round of drinks.

    Oh yeah...amen.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Senior Member easy_e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by LapOfLuxury
    ....your sex drive is the main engine that powers your trip to the club. Otherwise, you wouldn't care about the physical attractiveness of the strippers you spend money on. If it were not about sex at all, you'd be just as happy with 75-year old grannies as strippers. Can't 75-year old grannies give you sympathetic attention?
    75 year old grannies are not going to make any man feel attractive, virile and interesting, except maybe a 95 year old man. A hot young stripper is another matter entirely. Strip clubs are certainly about sexuality, but not always about sex per se. If the customer is looking strictly for sex, he could save a lot of time and money by calling an escort service or visiting the local "nude modeling studio".

    As Thoreau said "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation", enslaved by the demands of work and family. The strip club is an escape, a hideout and a fantasy where all that is forgotten, although temporarily, and in that sense, serves its purpose with or without sex.
    Do you want to understand? The whole world is one of your eyes, the body produced by your parents is a cataract. All ordinary people ignore the indestructible, marvelously clear, unfailingly mirroring eye, and therefore they take illusions for realities, and grasp at reflections as the physical forms themselves.

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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    It's a bit of escapism - and I refuse to take it too seriously. I get to see a pretty woman naked: she gets to earn a living and both sides are happy - end of story.

    I'll even happily tell the dancer:

    (a) I don't take it seriously.
    (b) I know several dancers socially, and thus aren't under too many illusions about her motivations.
    (c) I don't expect her to take it seriously either.

    Result: a fun dance without any SS - and smiles on both sides.

    (Not to mention a relaxed dancer).

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar
    QUOTE=Phil-W:
    It's a bit of escapism - and I refuse to take it too seriously. I get to see a pretty woman naked: she gets to earn a living and both sides are happy - end of story.
    -----------------------------------------
    Phil, are you saying that because one chooses to analyze and therefore, throughly understand, one's own motivations and the needs being fulfilled by the strip club, one is taking it too seriously? Because I too look at it as carefree as you seem too, from this quote, but I feel it is important (especially as a PL waiting to happen) to know what and why. As mr_p said, it ain't the Rosetta stone but it is not something that you can just do and not contemplate. Well, it isn't something that I, having to walk a delicate path created by my loyalty to my marriage and relationship, can do. Maybe it is easier for the single guys...

    -gen
    No GenWar, something a little different. I've noticed that a lot of men want to take it for real. They want to believe:

    (a) The dancer is getting really turned on dancing for them.
    (b) The dancer is likes or is even attracted to them.

    I can't take it that seriously, not least because I see several dancers socially. I know what they think about their customers, therefore by extension I assume other dancers think similar things about me.

    I've just found from experience that if I say to a strange dancer:

    "Look, both you and I have no need to take this too seriously. I'll enjoy looking at your figure; you'll get to earn your living in as pleasant manner as possible. Let's both of us smile, relax and in as much as two strangers can in this environment, make the time pass as pleasingly as possible."

    The usual response is that they laugh, genuinely relax and seem to quite enjoy giving a dance without the usual stress of fending off wandering hands, idiot questions, etc.

    We both part with a smile on our faces, and that can't be bad.

    Phil.

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    Newbie WingMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar
    I, too, think this would be a worthy endeavor. And a great time. Still, we would have to add at least one more, the wingman. Fairly sure this night would be cigar free and there is no way he is missing a smoke free night. He lives for those (no pun intended). Think I still owe him one for his birthday.
    A cigar free night!?! I'm there, dude! Yes, you definitely owe me one that you promised in Vegas and never delivered on. If you ever get around to writing TR's for the Vegas trip, be sure to include the eyeballing I gave you every time you lit one.

    As far as the overall subject, if a good ego-stroking is what you are looking for, then sure it CAN not be about sex. I believe Rule #10 applies here. For myself, if I need my ego stroked I can talk to my gf. So I'm not looking for this when at the strip club.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    So then, baby, what is it that YOU want stroked?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess FBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Of course it doesnt have to be about sex, Gen. If you agree that the posters here are a pretty accurate cross section of strip clubbers in general, it follows that many clubbers dont go looking for sex. In the case of SCJ, based on the posts, more than a handful here wouldnt accept sex even if it was offered on a platter. I dont view these guys as PL's. I think in most cases these members have views that have been carefully thought out over the years, the risks weighed and to them it just aint worth it. Who wouldnt respect that?

    Some junkies may not have the self-discipline or moral character or righteous fear, however you want to define it, to draw a personal behavior line in the sand even when their situations dictate that is probably the "wisest" course. I fall into that catagory, probably for reasons that I'm not fully aware of and may never truly understand.

    Great thread, Gen. I, for one, appreciate a thread that stimulates introspection even if I dont necessarily like the results

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    God/dess FBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR
    Great thread, Gen. I, for one, appreciate a thread that stimulates introspection even if I dont necessarily like the results

    FBR
    OK Im done introspecting. Bring on the hot strippers

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    No, it doesn't have to be about sex, but there's nothing wrong with it when it is, either. While I don't hit clubs to get ITC action myself, I don't have a problem with people who do and I find all the resistance to the very idea to be artifical and contrived, no matter how much you try to dress it up in intellectual discourse. It's just disingenuous given the nature of the industry.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    AMEN AMEN AMEN

    I just read this. Thank you for posting the passage from the book. It describes me perfectly, and makes me feel like I am not alone in this. Very much appreciated.

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    God/dess mr_punk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W
    I've noticed that a lot of men want to take it for real. They want to believe:

    (a) The dancer is getting really turned on dancing for them.
    (b) The dancer is likes or is even attracted to them.

    I can't take it that seriously, not least because I see several dancers socially. I know what they think about their customers, therefore by extension I assume other dancers think similar things about me.
    well, you're not that much different from them, Phil. you're both seeking the same thing.....genuineness from a sex worker.
    Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat

    Alan Marciano
    : Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
    Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_punk
    well, you're not that much different from them, Phil. you're both seeking the same thing.....genuineness from a sex worker.
    Seriously, what is with this bizarre obsession you have for telling other people what they think, what they want, what they really meant when they actually said something else, or in this case, what he's seeking... really wtf is so complicated about the concept that you only get to speak for yourself?

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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Well, CO, sometimes "artificial and contrived" is just "I don't wanna go there." Nothing more contrived than that. It's my personal boundary in the SC. I, however, don't care if anyone else goes there.
    I understand and emphathize, JZ, but the fact remains that some folks put way too much effort into attempting to negate the sexual overtones of an SC and the girls that work there.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Featured Member GenWar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    ^^ Can't get defensive about that, lest I be identified as one of said "folks."

    -gen
    "See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno

  25. #25
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can it NOT be about Sex? (Please?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWar
    ^^ Can't get defensive about that, lest I be identified as one of said "folks."

    -gen
    It's the same BS tactic you see in what passes for journalism these days. Some totally off-the-wall idea or feigned quote will be presented as 'some say' or the equivalent. Rather than addressing what was actually said or the argument or idea that was presented, a pre-established script is followed where the same points and be re-iterated over and over and overr.

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