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Thread: Educate Me- Religion

  1. #1
    God/dess Gynger's Avatar
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    Default Educate Me- Religion

    I'm treading a line here, and those of you who know me, know that I'm not one to cause any type of controversay but I really need some help here. This may be a long post.... so please bear with me and thank you in advance to anyone who responds.

    First off, I'm extremely open minded, I have no issues with people's beliefs etc, unless of course they start questioning mine and expecting me to agree that theirs is the tried and true way and only way. I have had a situation arise in the last week in regards to my daughter and I'm not clear on how to handle this, I've done some surfing, I'm reading but I'm still not clear based upon my, well for lack of a better description, lack of understanding?

    My ex has a new girlfriend. She has told my daughter she is a practicing Witch. I was raised christian/catholic (split based upon my parents), I believe in a God, but I do not believe in organized religion, so I'm agnostic. I have educated my daughter with my beliefs and my former upbringing and she has attended church on occasion with my dad, and some of her family members. Mind you, her dad, was a practicing CHristian at one point. This girl, has explained to my daughter about spells, the guilds, etc. however, she states she believes in God. So of course, I'm going off of what I remember being taught and wondering how one can say one thing and then say a something different? I feel this new girlfriend, whom I have not met yet, has crossed a line (funny how he picks women who have no respect for the mother/child line)... anyways, I don't know what everyone's beliefs are on this board, but I'm confused, and this girl has now told my daughter she can do just about anything if she is a believer in the craft. So, with that said, I'm a bit upset. I don't know how to explain or educate my daughter when I don't understand myself.

    So, with all of this in mind, please keep this post uncontroversial and post only if you have insight on this belief or any ideas as to how to explain this to a 10 year old. The last thing I want is a "political poo" where every one hashes shit out, that's not the point to my post. Everythign I have read makes absolutely NO sense to me.

    Thank you.
    G.


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  2. #2
    Featured Member aviendha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    I presume the ex's girlfriend is a Wiccan? You can learn more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan

    Or, Google Wicca to find out more.

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    God/dess LuckiCharm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    my first instinct would be, if you are raising her in the church, to speak to the pastor or have your dad speak to the pastor of the church. he could give you advice on how to handle it or maybe even he could explain things to her.

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Ok.. Let's just clarify a little.. Witches aren't all Wiccans. Wicca is "Modern" Witchcraft. There are plenty of us who are Traditional, and Hereditaries, and have no affiliation with Wicca in the slightest.

    Now.. Gyn.. I couldn't agree with you more. She crossed a line. There is no other way of looking at it. She had no right to teach your daughter any of that without your knowledge and consent. If you are up to it, I would confront her. Or at least I'd confront the Ex, and tell him how you feel about this.

    If you have questions, you know I'm here. I don't feel the need to discuss what I do on the boards, but I'll help you out privately if I can.

    One thing I'll share here is that there is a growing number of "Christian Witches", who believe in God. This could be what she is, but I wouldn't assume anything without knowing more.

  5. #5
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    To me life is about experience. I have very successful friends who swear that they are successful because of their spells/potions/whatever. I have other friends who are very religious and say that they are successful because of the will of God. And, then there's Joe and I who are successful because we believe in the power of the mind (New Thought here). Who's right? Who's wrong? No one is wrong because they are all "tapping" into a "higher" power for their answers. In the end, it doesn't matter which road you take to success (whatever your version of success is) as long as you get there.

    People think of Witches/Wicca and think black hats/stakes/brooms and black cats. It's all about the power of intention...people just find different ways to tap into that intention...whether through spells, prayer, or visualization...its all the same.

    Me, personally, I think that everyone should be exposed to every aspect of religion. Judism, Christianity, Catholicism, New Thought, Wicca, etc, etc, etc. Then, stick with the one that resonates with you the most.

    My suggestion is that you be open about it. Maybe sitting down and learning about it WITH her (check out books from the library) and then you can see her reaction to it...you can help her along...you can answer her questions. This doesn't mean that you have to believe in it...it doesn't mean that you have to practice it every day...but it will give you a bonding time with your daughter...and if she's interested or curious about it, she won't feel like she's got to hide that from you.

    I wish you lots and lots of luck. It's easy for me to sit here and give advice but my little one is only 3 1/2...hehe...so I have a while yet before I have to practice what I preach!!

    Let me know what happens!!!

  6. #6
    Featured Member aviendha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    I know that not all witches are Wiccan, but I figured I'd throw the dart at the most likely source of information that at least would give a basic overview.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    I think you have a right to feel however you feel. This is your daughter, this woman is your ex's girlfriend. A girlfriend/boyfriend should have little to NO say in how their SO's child is raised, and that includes exposing them to their spiritual beliefs...ESPECIALLY when it's something as controversial as "wicca."

    I'd ask your ex to tell her to not talk about this to your child.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    (((Gynger)))

    I believe more harm has been done in the name of religion than any single thing on earth. Anything can be harmful in the wrong hands...

    Even still I have leaned more towards Christianty in my beliefs about God. I was raised around Baptist and Presbyterians and I have also studied the Tao and Zen. I took my son to several different kinds of churches. I have read about many religions. I have friends of different faiths.

    From the time my son was a little guy we together looked at many different faiths. I never forced anything with my son as far as religion goes. I invited him to read the Bible with me and I also invited him to read the Tao with me. We say grace at meals and prayers before bed. We discuss many things concerning beliefs, art, artist, music, healing, being grateful, law, math, science, books, authors, careers, the human condition, relationships, sex, addictions ect...

    I want my son to be able to decide what is best for him. I want to always be open to hear what he thinks. I have tried to be honest with my son and if I do not know the facts about something that he wants to talk about then I want to help him find the answers. I don't want him to be afraid to find "his" truth or afraid to talk to me about anything.

    I have never discounted my sons awareness even when he was still inside the womb. People think children are not aware for some reason but, they are soaking up everything that goes on around them they don't miss a thing. My parents thought we were not aware of what they were doing and what was going on but, I rejected that idea when I was around two years old. Sorry, mom you had a bad program there dahlin'.

    My son is a man now and he is smart and he has been around. He holds me accountable for my actions and words and if they don't match he is not afraid to call me on them. I like that about him...He has decided he is a Christian and just recently at 18 years old got Baptised. I did not have him Baptised when he was young cause I wanted him to decide what he wanted.



    My advice to you would to be as honest with your child as you can. If you do not know the answer to questions she has; search together for answers and, find out about how close that can make you be with her. Don't insult your daughters intelegence by giving her fear based fables. Listen to her and validate her so that she will have the confidence to make informed choices that help her have a happy and safe life free from fear.

    I invite you to click on the link to my blog and read about my latest conversation with my son.

    My best wishes go out to you.

  9. #9
    God/dess Silverback's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

    OK, sorry. I couldn't help it.


    Here's the more generic witchcraft article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch

    Good luck. Sorry you have to deal with the weirdness.
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

  10. #10
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    For this issue I would approach it by not understanding wiccan or spells, but more in defining what you believe in and how it defines you.

    Because this question will come up whether she is trying to understand what a witch is, or a Jewish person, or a Buddist, or a Catholic, or an athesist. It is impossible to explain what each group believes in. It is only possible to explain what you believe in.

    If you take this approach it should help her to define what she will believe in. Only by being an example and showing how it makes us happy or defines our life and helps us to be a good parent and love them can they decide to adopt what we believe in.

    Hope this helps.

  11. #11
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    I will reiterate what Rhi has already said. Whilst most Wiccans are witches not all Withes are wiccan. Here are some definitions that I came up with over many many years:

    NEO-WITCHCRAFT (modern witchcraft)
    A scientific and magickal way of life/style or craft.
    It can be practiced by anyone and you need not belong to any coven or group and/or initiated to be a practionior of Neo-Witchcraft. A practionior of Neo-Witchcraft may incorporate other religions such as Judaism, Christianity, Satanism, Paganism, Wicca, etc.
    - Scientific: a system based on hypotheses that can be tested under controlled conditions. In other words, Witchcraft involves experiments.
    - Magickal: spells and any such magick is usually worked on an elemental level using the powers of fire, earth, air and water, power words and prayer. It can also involve the use of Folk Magick amongst other magickal systems.
    - Life/style or Craft: something that is studied, and learned, and applied to use in life.


    OLD WITCHCRAFT (traditional witchcraft)
    Members of an Old Witchcraft coven take oaths and the knowledge within is kept to the coven and never allowed to be seen by the public and non-family. The coven, usually, is comprised of family members (including those who marry into the family). The type of Witchcraft practiced could be religious or craft (not religious). Old Witchcraft does still exist however is, usually, kept private or away from the public and non-family. Whether there exists an unbroken line of Old Witchcraft is disputable - be cautious around those who proclaim to be part of an ages old family coven.


    WICCA
    A religion which involves a belief in divinity (generally a dual divinity as in God/masculine and Goddess/feminine), Wiccan Rede and Law of Three. A modern religion based upon many systems of belief (including Old Witchcraft) and generally believed to have been popularised by Gerald Gardner (foremost), Charles Godfrey Leland, Dr. Margaret Murray, Doreen Valiente, Alex Sanders, Janet and Stewart Farrar and others. There are two branches within Wicca currently: Traditional and Liberal. Traditional Wicca is an Initiatory Mystical/Mystery religion (which can only be learned within a coven setting) whilst Liberal Wicca is generally practiced by those who are solitary and/or eclectic.

    witchcraft (with a small w): the use of sorcery, magick or the occult arts. Unlike "Neo-Witchcraft", it is not a lifestyle choice.. just a practice (whether used frequently or not is irrelevant).



    ...and yes.. there are plenty of Christo-Pagans and Christian Witches around.....

    http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/christianwitches/
    http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.htm...=words&id=3143
    http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.htm...words&id=10624


    enter: E3167322D9 for your 10% discount

  12. #12
    God/dess PaigeDWinter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Agreed on the witches do not always = Wicca. Hell, I've seen Angelic Magic spring up a lot more and more these days, and that mixes two belief systems that usually dont get shoved in the same bag, but I never understood why they couldnt. Me? Honestly? As a belief teacher, and well, as me.... I think it depends on the age of your child. I dont see the harm in this woman teaching your daughter things just for the sake of entertaining her, or even in a non-hurtful manner of education... I mean, it EXISTS. People are out there, practicing it, your child is going to run into it eventually. If she's young, I'd say tell this woman not to go any further with trying to teach your child. Tell her that you and your child are going to wait until she is old enough to make her own belief choices... then, if the kiddo wants to learn more, have at it. I changed my belief when I was 8, and have changed it a LOT of times until I found where I was happy. I was miserable being forced to go to church with my family when I didnt have my heart in what they were preaching (I was raised Roman Catholic), so I can say, even at a young age, kids can very easily learn to resent religion if they dont dig it. They arent stupid at that age by a long shot. As I said, I dont know how old your kid is, but if she is old enough that you think she can choose to learn what she wants to, then really, where is the harm? As long as this woman doesnt convince her that she can fly off of a 20 story building on a broom, or anything harmful... yanno? But this is just my $0.02
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  13. #13
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    There is a world of difference between information and indoctrination. If all she's doing is explaining her beliefs, fine. But she crosses a line when she starts indoctrinating other people's kids, and that's what it sounds like she's doing. It's disrespectful. Try talking to her and calmly, rationally, explaining your point of view.

  14. #14
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    There is a world of difference between information and indoctrination. If all she's doing is explaining her beliefs, fine. But she crosses a line when she starts indoctrinating other people's kids, and that's what it sounds like she's doing. It's disrespectful. Try talking to her and calmly, rationally, explaining your point of view.
    As per usual, I agree with Yek.
    Regardless of what this woman's belief system may be, it is your choice to raise your children how you want, but I wouldn't try to steer your daughter away from discussing religion or learning from this woman. That is, IF she is just explaining her beliefs to your daughter and not trying to engage her in some ritual. Some are harmless of course (just as you have witnessed many Christian and Catholic rituals in your upbringing, Wiccan or Pagan religions are just as common and non-traumatic), but there are some dangerous cults and strange religious practices, so you should definitely learn more about this woman yourself first.
    For instance, I have a friend who's parents were so-called "Pagans" and performed rituals....but some of the rituals involved sexual abuse of children. These people were not Pagans, but sick and twisted individuals. I don't mean to scare you, but to let you know that these things do exist, but they are not likely to exist. You shouldn't have fear, but proceed with an open mind (from both a positive and negative perspective. Keep your eyes and ears open.

    REAL Wiccans and Pagans are not what most people would consider "evil". Nor are most modern Satanists (which are more about philosophy than religious practice). I find there is "evil" in people of all religious backgrounds. Don't be afraid to educate yourself. An educated person is one with power...because knowledge is most definitely power.

    I'd approach her without anger or defensiveness, but with the genuine concern you have for your daughter. Explain that you don't know much about her religion and would like to understand what she believes in. Keep your senses open...listen for anything you might think is alarming or abusive. She doesn't sound harmful to me, though, based on what you explained.

    I am a Satanist, which does not mean I worship demons or sacrifice animals or go around being awful to people for no reason because I'm angry at their God. I actually believe in God also, but my definition and perception of God is probably different from most people's. My philosophies are more focused on worship of the self. But would I go around trying to convert my (hypothetical) boyfriend's child to Satanism? No. I would leave that up to the parents, or up to the child to discover on their own time. If someone came to me asking for information or education from an objective standpoint, I certainly would offer them help if I believed they would use the information in a positive way.

    Good luck.

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    Senior Member HoneyHITZmore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    practicing christian witches-- rhi, i LOVE you

    im one of them!

    witchcraft is a practice-- i use it as a vehicle to pray to God, basically, i practice monotheistic witchcraft...
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member DJ_Duane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Bear in mind that a number of Wiccans and witches have a persecution complex - at least, a lot of those that I have met - and may take your telling her that she has crossed the line as a way of attempting to suppress her faith and her practise of it. Some publications for followers of Wicca give great detail of the persecutions of followers of their religion - both in history and up to modern times - and the majority of the mentioned persecutors were Christians.

    How did the topic of her religion come up with your child? Did your child ask her a question or did she come right out and start talking about the subject on her own? Your daughter may have seen her wearing a necklace or some other kind of jewelry, asked her about it and that led to the topic of her faith.

    This whole thing may have begun innocently enough. Find out how it started and go from there.

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    Featured Member LilSweetVixen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    why should you have to learn about witchcraft? oh and did you get divorced?

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  18. #18
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Well, honey, she's your daughter, tell her whatever you want. If you want her to understand and respect this other woman's beliefs it is probably best to let her explain them both to her and to you. Honestly, I don't see what line she has crossed over. Like, she has told your daughter about her beliefs and the strength that they give her. I don't really get why it's a problem. I'm not really a very spiritual person, so if you are and don't want your daughter to be exposed to different spiritualities, I can see why it would bother you. There is no inherent conflict in believing in God-the-entity and wicca, but if you want to better understand this woman's point of view and belief system, she would be the one to ask. Wicca and Feminist Goddess Worship are very intranscendant, personal relationships - they are not necessarily duplicated by other people.
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  19. #19
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gynger
    ...this girl has now told my daughter she can do just about anything if she is a believer in the craft.
    Sounds exactly the same as what people will tell you about believing in Jesus...

    I don't believe either.

    Believing in yourself is the key.

    Putting yourself in a trance state due to prayer, self-hypnosis, meditation, or thinking a witch's spell is effective, and then visualizing yourself with your goal achieved will all work--if you believe it will.

    OTOH, it is your daughter, and some concern about whether she might be influenced negatively by some weird cult-type bullshit mentality is understandable.

    Wicca sounds cool as hell to me, and actually considerably more rational than most forms of dogmatic Christianity, but who knows how this woman is attempting to practice her 'craft'.

    I'd use the same basic idea as if she was going to be around Jehovah's Witnesses or Hare Krishnas. Explain to her that there are all kinds of different religons and religious philosophies, that she can pick and choose the right one for her when she feels a need to, but never to let anyone try to decide for her.
    Last edited by Djoser; 07-27-2006 at 12:38 AM.
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    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Well, I've gotta commend you on your patience to understand this... Because my first reaction was "KEEP THAT CRAZY BITCH AWAY FROM YOUR DAUGHTER!". I would be a crazy mom, lol. Kudos to you for trying to understand it, first. But, whatever "religion" a person is, it is inappropriate to push it onto children who aren't yours. Maybe you should have a talk with her yourself about her religion... and also about how you, your ex, and your daughter, will be the only ones involved in her religious upbringing until your daughter is old enough to decide on her own.
    If you think school is hard, try being stupid.

  21. #21
    God/dess Gynger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    I'd like to thank all of you for your words and advice here... There are a few of you I will be pming in the next few days... I'm in the midst of a all out war right now with my ex husband this being one of the subjects...

    I'd like to also say, that I am an overprotective mother and I'm proud to admit it. I have only one child... I go to great lengths to ensure that she does not get confused, but yet, is educated, but by education I mean that it is the right way and not the wrong way.

    I can't remember who said that they felt that this girl didn't cross a line... a line was crossed in my opinion when one disrespects how a parent may feel when the parent of the child that they are speaking to is aware of the parent's beliefs. (this girl was fully aware of my beliefs and what my child has been taught)...

    I'm struggling, but I'm also reading and again, I will be PMing some of you...

    THank you all for your input and your words of advice.


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    Banned Blade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    Eh I won't get into it out in public...pm me on yahell over the weekend and we'll talk.

  23. #23
    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Educate Me- Religion

    So what happened?

    I wouldn't let her near my daughter, frankly.

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