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Thread: Leading on

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    Member mandragoran79's Avatar
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    Default Leading on

    I wanted to start a thread about the "off-discussion" topic in thread titled "should i tell my best regular this? ". How do you really define "leading a guy on" ? Is it giving false promises explicitly ? I personally think sometimes actions speak louder than words. IMHO even holding hands, giving warm hugs and real kisses on cheeks are enough to lead a guy on.

    What do you think ?

  2. #2
    Miss. Kristina Lee
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    Default Re: Leading on

    i thinkt hat many guys actually pay for this in a strip club. i think its all part of the game so to speak. the custies want it and we give it to them if they do.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Manipulation intended to make the customer think he is more than just a customer. The specific actions aren't what matters. Some guys are happy to pay for pretend intimacy such as holding hands, etc. - the GFE. But when the girl is fucking with the guys head, it's the wrong kind of girlfriend experience.

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    Banned cherry_sin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    You have to explicitly promise something you won't deliver.

    I won't lie a bit. I DO provide GFE in the club. But if a customer begins to be a regular, then I have a light chat with him, saying that I'm thrilled he comes back to see me so much, but we won't be meeting outside the club - and that if circumstances change, I'll tell him so explicitly. If a guy drops money on me over a long period of time, he deserves that from me.

    Does that keep me from playing around, and giving him great GFE? Not in the least. And yes, I do drop little hints, or play with his mind a little bit... because that is what he wants from me. He wants the thrill and excitement. *shrugs* It's SOP for a lot of girls I know.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    You have to explicitly promise something you won't deliver.
    I see. There is no such thing as a lie of omission in your world. It's ok to deceive someone as long as you don't "explicitly promise something you won't deliver".

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    And yes, I do drop little hints, or play with his mind a little bit... because that is what he wants from me. He wants the thrill and excitement. *shrugs*
    You drop little hints? What is it you are hinting at? Are you hinting at something that is true? Or something that is a manipulative lie?

    And that's what he wants? To be deceived? I'll grant that customers want thrills and excitement, but are you sure that the thrill of being manipulated, and the excitement of being used are the thrills and excitement they are looking for?


    for example:
    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    I'll send another dancer over to get a dance from him, one I know he likes the look of. I go over later, and one way or another subtly hint that it made me jealous. Or I drop lines about how he's so sweet and all, and how he deserves someone really great, and who he could be proud to take home to mom. Not saying that I want to be that girl, but kind of - hinting that I might be if I thought I was "worthy" of him. Usually lets me milk him at least another one-two months.
    Guys really want you to decieve them into thinking you are jealous of them? They want you to hint that you might have a relationship with them when you actually are just trying to 'milk them' for more money?

    Are you sure about that?

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    Banned cherry_sin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    A guy wants to feel special. He wants to feel like I am his girl... hence the G in GFE. Having a sexy girl feel interested in him and hanging on his every word is what he shows up for. If he patronizes me regularly, then he wants to feel like I trust him, and respect him, and that I am lapping up all of his manliness. A girl that is doing that wouldn't be just super cool with other girls giving him dances. It's all about maintaining the fantasy.

    And no, I don't hint that *I* would ever meet them OTC. The furthest I ever go is that I say I hope he finds a girl that makes him happy - which is what someone that truly dug him and cared about him would want. And if I did truly care and whatnot about him, then I would *self admittedly* NOT be available for the hookup, because at the moment my job is my life, and he would deserve someone who would be there all the time. That's all I meant.

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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    It all depends on the guy and the circumstances.


    You're in a strip club, so any type of physical stroking/teasing/etc is fine as long as the guy doesn't respond by trying to take it too far himself. (Stripping 101 here)

    As far as leading you on to anything OTC? In my opinion, that is out of bounds.

    There are the indirect references to OTC relationships like telling me where she lives, what club she goes to, etc. - Then there are the direct references like asking me if I'd ever date a stripper.

    I will have a dancer try both from time to time and I just feign ignorance. 95% of the time, they read my response correctly and never go there again. The remaining 5% are a real pain in the ass.

    Otherwise, it's up to her how far she wants to take the ITC GFE. I have found that some gals really enjoy being your GF ITC without worrying about what you think of them OTC.

    And the absolute best are the gals who understand and appreciate a little mutual objectification ITC.


    "Life is not about the number of breaths you take.
    It's about those moments which leave you breathless."

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Well, I hug my customers all the time - warmly even. I will kiss on the cheek and hold hands. To me that seems like a normal part of the service we provide - I mean, who wants a girl to walk around saying "Wanna dance?", then to mechanically grind (or not grind) for 3.5 minutes, then get up and yell, "Next!"? There is context - the guys know they are in a strip club (we can't sit here and act like guys walk in going "lalalala, oh my goodness, what manner of place is this? All these delightful women! And they like me! Goodness me, they REALLY like me!") and they are aware of the kind of exchange. So, in a strip club to lead a guy on you would be fairly actively trying to make him believe something that is not true and that is outside the normal realm of behaviour. Usually, this will involve an explicit promise or act - I cannot, offhand, think of behaviour in a strip that would qualify that is not fairly explicit.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    And no, I don't hint that *I* would ever meet them OTC.
    So hinting that you might be the kind of girl that he would take home to mom is not hinting that you would meet them OTC.

    OK.

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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    So, in a strip club to lead a guy on you would be fairly actively trying to make him believe something that is not true and that is outside the normal realm of behaviour. Usually, this will involve an explicit promise or act - I cannot, offhand, think of behaviour in a strip that would qualify that is not fairly explicit.
    Thank you Jenny. Someone always seems to think of a better way to say it than I did.

    OK: Aw, you're so cuddly. *cuddles* I really like cuddling with you, Mr. Super Hot Man that I think walks on water and really did play for the Bears. You're just so much fun for me! It would be great to do this all the time.

    Not OK: You're cuddly! Let's go to my house and cuddle, after I get off work tonight. *then proceeds to stand up said man who hasn't played football in his life*

    As far as the mom thing goes - I provide qualifiers. "It would be spiffy if we dated, yeah, but I would rather not meet someones parents and tell them I am a dancer. Plus I work too much right now."

    Keeps interest up while still turning them down nicely.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    Thank you Jenny. Someone always seems to think of a better way to say it than I did.
    I have never read any post by Jenny (and believe me I've read plenty) that even remotely describes something she did that was deceptive. So the reason it sounds better when she says it is that she is describing how she acts - ethically.

    When you describe your scam, it sounds like what it is. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    As far as the mom thing goes - I provide qualifiers. "It would be spiffy if we dated, yeah, but I would rather not meet someones parents and tell them I am a dancer. Plus I work too much right now."
    So you explicitly told him that you want to date him. Was that true, or a lie?

  12. #12
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    So hinting that you might be the kind of girl that he would take home to mom is not hinting that you would meet them OTC.

    OK.
    Dude, what do you think a GFE is? It is allowing/letting/getting the guy to believe that you are the kind of girl that he could take home to mom. Isn't that the whole point of girl-next-door dancers? Why do you think guys want to be chatted up before they get a dance? Why do you think guy like it when we show them casual affection? I might say to a guy "Wow, you're so handsome and special I hope your wife appreciates you" (actually, I would never say anything like that, but hypothetically), it doesn't mean I'm offering myself. In the context of her post I thought it was clear that she was comparing herself favorably with the other dancer (in direct lay terms she would be saying why do you want a filthy skank like that when you COULD have sweet, wholesome, disease-free little me?) not offering her services to actually meet his mom.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Dude, what do you think a GFE is? It is allowing/letting/getting the guy to believe that you are the kind of girl that he could take home to mom. Isn't that the whole point of girl-next-door dancers? Why do you think guys want to be chatted up before they get a dance? Why do you think guy like it when we show them casual affection? I might say to a guy "Wow, you're so handsome and special I hope your wife appreciates you" (actually, I would never say anything like that, but hypothetically), it doesn't mean I'm offering myself. In the context of her post I thought it was clear that she was comparing herself favorably with the other dancer (in direct lay terms she would be saying why do you want a filthy skank like that when you COULD have sweet, wholesome, disease-free little me?) not offering her services to actually meet his mom.
    Like I said, I think you are ethical, I don't think you deceive your customers, and I don't think you would say "it would be spiffy to date you" if it weren't the truth. I get the impression that you have no problem keeping your customers happy without offering such deceptions.

    Am I wrong? Would you actually tell a customer: "It would be spiffy if we dated, yeah, but I would rather not meet someones parents and tell them I am a dancer. Plus I work too much right now." if you didn't really think it would be spiffy if you dated?

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    God/dess sxybrat07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Like I said, I think you are ethical, I don't think you deceive your customers, and I don't think you would say "it would be spiffy to date you" if it weren't the truth. I get the impression that you have no problem keeping your customers happy without offering such deceptions.

    Am I wrong? Would you actually tell a customer: "It would be spiffy if we dated, yeah, but I would rather not meet someones parents and tell them I am a dancer. Plus I work too much right now." if you didn't really think it would be spiffy if you dated?

    Well, unfortunately, telling someone 'No you're a nasty scumbag and I wouldn't be caught dead seeing you outside the club' doesn't really pan out well. So, it's really just finding the best way to say no, while hopefully keeping the customer, and keep him from repeatedly asking. (hearing WHYYYYYYY won't you go out with me every 10 seconds gets old...fast)

    I don't know if I'd use that specific phrase, but I do often say, 'oh, i just don't have time to date right now, i'm too busy. sweet of you to ask though'. I don't feel I'm being deceitful with that, because 1, I told him no. and 2, really, the reason doesn't matter. *shrug*
    I believe you Dottie and you have my support

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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by sxybrat07
    I do often say, 'oh, i just don't have time to date right now, i'm too busy. sweet of you to ask though'. I don't feel I'm being deceitful with that, because 1, I told him no. and 2, really, the reason doesn't matter. *shrug*
    Of course you weren't deceitful in that instance. However, if instead you had said:

    "I think it would be spiffy to date you, but don't have time to date right now, i'm too busy. sweet of you to ask though"

    do you think that would be deceitful?

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Well, I hug my customers all the time - warmly even. I will kiss on the cheek and hold hands. To me that seems like a normal part of the service we provide -
    Absolutely right. That is the reason why a lot of us are there in the first place. It is not at all misleading to do that -- it is part of the experience and any mature customer will understand that it gets left at the door on the way out. And I would say false compliments are part of the game as well, and OK, although I find them a turn off.

    Here are a couple ideas of what might leading a guy on that is out of bounds:
    1. Asking for money to cover some personal hardship. Even if it is not a lie, and you truly are facing financial hardship, it is the sort of thing you ask of friends and family. If you want to put a barrier between the customer and those categories, then don't ask him to meet the responsibilities.
    2. Hinting at OTC possibilities unless you really mean to open them up. Some dancers say it is OK to do this when the guy is a total a**h*le, obnoxiously demanding OTC action, but even in that case it seems like you are descending to his level if you decide to use that to extract money with no intention of following up.

    Hats off to mandragoran for being concerned about the issue. I really like dancers who care about being decent to their customers. They are the ones I go back to.

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    Member mandragoran79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by casaubon1
    Hats off to mandragoran for being concerned about the issue. I really like dancers who care about being decent to their customers. They are the ones I go back to.
    Thanks for the kind words. They made me want to be a (male hehe ) dancer. But I'll stick with being a (lead on ) customer for now.
    Last edited by mandragoran79; 08-01-2006 at 01:30 PM. Reason: typo correction

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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    But when the girl is fucking with the guys head, it's the wrong kind of girlfriend experience.
    Personally, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the guy in this equation. Avoiding "deception" in a SC seems to me a relatively simple matter of knowing what you want, acting decisively in pursuit thereof (via action, word, gesture, whatever) and moving on if you don't get it.

    Any customer who allows themselves to be "lead on" w/ "Im too busy/work too much/embarrassed to introduce myself to your parents"-type gobbledygook needs to sign up for the Mr._P correspondence course, ASAP.

    Indeed -- obligatory sycophantic remark in nod to fact that I'm posting on pink -- if my sympathy lies anywhere in this equation it's w/ the dancer. The type of customer who is gullible or desperate enough to fall prey to such "scams" must be quite exhausting and emotionally draining over the long haul.

  19. #19
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Of course you weren't deceitful in that instance. However, if instead you had said:

    "I think it would be spiffy to date you, but don't have time to date right now, i'm too busy. sweet of you to ask though"

    do you think that would be deceitful?
    Not really. I think it would be deceitful to say, "Gosh, I think it would be awful spiffy to date you, but right now I can't think about dating because I'm so poor. If you bought, say, 24 more dances I bet I would be more amenable to the idea.... [24 dances later] hmm, I really thought I would be, but it turns out I have a boyfriend. Oops. My bad." Above is just a variation on "nice offer, but I'm not dating right now." People are shot down with that one all the time. I don't think the fact that she might be dating other people is really relevant from the guy's point of view so much as the "thank you, no" part.

    And my answer varies between a "Oh, hell no" and a "Really - wouldn't you rather go out and meet a nice girl who doesn't let strange men touch her for money?" (which is a variation on the whole "I'd rather not meet your mother and tell her I strip.") All that matters is that the "no" part is clear. Deceiving the guy about WHY you won't go out with him doesn't really matter, so long as he knows you AREN'T going out with him.

    Here's another variation - what when you are dealing with a guy (with whom we have all dealt) who actually says to you "I'll buy a dance (or two, or 10) if you meet me for coffee tomorrow." (My answer was, by the way, "Oh, hell no. You'll buy a dance because you KNOW you like me. You totally think I'm pretty. I can tell." But I can see why that would be pretty damn infuriating and very tempting for another girl.)
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Leading on

    Jenny your spirited defense of your fellow dancer is nobly motivated no doubt, however, I'm pretty sure that you don't play mind games with a customer in order to 'milk him at least another one-two months'. (her words) You seem to be defending actions that you yourself would not take.

    As far as I can tell, you and her are nothing at all like each other. Which is why I have no essential disagreement with you at all.

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by mandragoran79
    They made me want to be (male hehe ) dancer. But I'll stick with being a (lead on ) customer for now.

    Holy SH*T. That'll teach me not to look at the ribbon color!!!

    Sorry, but I have NO interest in you as a dancer

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by mandragoran79
    Is it giving false promises explicitly ? I personally think sometimes actions speak louder than words. IMHO even holding hands, giving warm hugs and real kisses on cheeks are enough to lead a guy on.

    What do you think ?
    Leading on can be done in an implicit manner too, but I think defining that is a bit tricky. Even in the civilian world, people receiving a gesture (romantic or otherwise) often will interpret that gesture differently than was meant by the intent of the person who gave it. We had an incident at my workplace where an employee filed a sexual harrassment complaint against a supervisor for an "innapropriate touching". So what happened? He had put his hand on her shoulder.


    As for the SC, well, maybe its just me, but I go to a club to see women acting and behaving in a sexually/romantically exaggerated mannner, and little gestures like a peck on my cheek or holding my hand on the trip from the table to the LD room add personality and spice to the experience. Often its those little personal touches which I remember most and are what can make me a repeat customer.

    Granted these gestures don't symbolize any genuine affection, but I do think that they can symbolize genuine trust. Its a bit gratifying to know that a strange woman feels a sense of safety around you, which I'm sure every gal on this site will admit, doesn't apply to all their customers.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Nothing wrong with well done SS; if you aren't savvy enough as a customer to recognize SS, and if you can't have realistic expecations within the unrealistic environment of the SC, you can't blame the strippers because you really don't have any business being there.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    ^ Exactly. Well done, CO.

  25. #25
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: Leading on

    Quote Originally Posted by cherry_sin
    You have to explicitly promise something you won't deliver.

    I won't lie a bit. I DO provide GFE in the club. But if a customer begins to be a regular, then I have a light chat with him, saying that I'm thrilled he comes back to see me so much, but we won't be meeting outside the club - and that if circumstances change, I'll tell him so explicitly. If a guy drops money on me over a long period of time, he deserves that from me.

    Does that keep me from playing around, and giving him great GFE? Not in the least. And yes, I do drop little hints, or play with his mind a little bit... because that is what he wants from me. He wants the thrill and excitement. *shrugs* It's SOP for a lot of girls I know.
    Call me stupid...but what is GFE? I thought it was something prostitutes did, but I never knew what it stood for.

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