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Thread: Help?

  1. #1
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Help?

    I am fretting way too much over this. It won't be a life-altering decision really, but I have to make a choice about the job situation and it's starting to drive me a lil nuts.

    I have a job that I started 2.5 weeks ago. It's a good job, best money I've ever made at a straight job, by far. The money is good and the raise potential is even better. I don't have to work overtime (maybe sometimes I will, but it won't be a regular occurrence like at the last job). I have more responsibility and am getting experience that will only help my future career prospects.

    BUT, my boss leaves something to be desired. He wants to fire the bookkeeper for reasons unknown to me, and is digging for ANY excuse to do so. My problem with that is, he's making me do his dirty work - giving me something new to dig for or question the bookkeeper about every day. The bookkeeper has his shit together - EVERY single thing I have asked him about, he has in order. I can't see any reason to fire the guy, unless it's the fact he is not very ambitious. He has quite a bit of free time on his hands and does not try to keep himself busy - he does just what he knows he's supposed to do or what he's told, and nothing more. But, aren't most employees like that?? He keeps great files, does his work efficiently and on time, has been very helpful to me when I ask (he's also my assistant), and goes about his work happily. For whatever reason though, the boss does NOT like him and wants to get rid of him.

    This makes me think that if the boss one day decides he doesn't like me, he'll do the same to me. Boss also is not very organized (at all), loses things, forgets things, etc, and blames anyone but himself. Mostly he tries to blame the bookkeeper for everything (even when it makes no sense), but once again, it makes me think that he'll do the same to me. I am afraid if I stay there I'll wind up with a shit reference on my resume. I almost think the reason he pays me so much is in part a bribe to put up with his shit.

    But he has added my name to the company bank accounts(!) so I can sign checks, given me the passwords to the company's online cash management, made me the sole administrator for company benefits, etc. He apparently values me, thinks I'm capable and trustworthy, etc to give me that much financial access/control. I still feel uncomfortable with the situation.

    By the end of this week I was considering looking for another job, even though it would most likely mean taking a paycut. My sanity and security is worth it.

    I got a call on Thursday from a guy I'd interviewed with previously, for a sales job that I was REALLY interested in. Construction sales - an "estimator". I think I could do really well at it, but it would take at least a year to build clientele, etc. Until I build up my accounts, I'd be on a guaranteed salary of $5k / yr less than what I'm making now. If this guy had called me 2 weeks ago, I would have taken the job without hesitation. Now I'm not so sure. I keep thinking, what if I fail miserably? Then I'll have a shit reference on my resume.

    But I also feel like the current boss may eventually decide he doesn't like me and dig for an excuse to fire me, which would also leave me with a shit resume reference. He is very hard to please. And he made a not-so-subtle comment about the fact I was leaving 5 minutes early yesterday, even though I always arrive a few minutes early, take short lunches and often stay a few minutes late.

    I need to get over this fear and either keep the current job or take the other one. The other one has great money potential after a year or so, and so does the one I already have - I could potentially make MORE in the longer term with the sales job though.

    I just can't decide which way to go. Take the chance on the sales job and risk failing miserably or possibly making more than I did as a stripper? Or take the chance with the current job and risk getting fired for bullshit or positioning myself with a really good business career potential? I can't seem to decide which I think is the better risk/chance.

    Sorry this is so long. Input please...

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Veteran Member curvygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    Wow! A couple of red flags shot up reading your post - the first, obviously, is that your boss wants to fire a bookkeeper for reasons unknown to you.

    Second red flag is that after 2.5 weeks, your boss has added YOUR name to banks accounts, etc. The reason I think this is a red flag is because with your name on the account, your boss could possible embezzle money from the company and blame you, i.e. your name is on it, etc. and so forth and this hadn't happened before you got there, blah blah, and so on.

    You didn't really say what this job is, i.e. sales, receptionist, paralegal, etc. Is this your first job? If it is, stick it out, try to learn as much as you can about the business/field/industry as you possibly can. When you have absolutely had enough, or -- if things do not work out - then you can walk away knowing that you have gained some knowledge and learning tools for the next job. You can also walk away knowing that you gave it your best shot and that that was not the job for you.

    I hope this helps.

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    Default Re: Help?

    Reading this post set off major bells. I woul ask to get my name removed from the company account for reasons stated above. Also, I've known situations of bosses firing bookkeepers that do their job so they CAN embezzle. Often times, if they offer a bookkeeper with a shady idea, and they get turned down ( as in "sir, i really don't think that's a good idea..."), they go about firing the bookkeeper. Seeing how irrational he's acting, he's also the type that would be vindictive and give shit reference.

    I would stay away from hard-to-please, irrational bosses. The money that's made literally start coming from your blood, sweat and tears.

    Sometimes, you can't control the fact that your boss may not like you in the future. I've always tried to work with people that conduct themselves professionally. Even if you don't like them, these office drama is less likely to affect you. IMHO, he's not acting like a professional, but like a tyrant. Unless the money is absolutely imperative, I would seriously start looking for another job.
    Last edited by kittenkat; 08-05-2006 at 02:24 PM.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    This is not my first job, I had another straight job before this and had several before / while I danced. I am 33 years old with education and experience. I have another job offer that I could take, but I'm suddenly worried about the risk of both.

    I am the office manager at the current job, and the last office manager had her name on the business accounts as well. It is part of the way that office operates - the office manager is responsible for all aspects of running the office, including signing payroll or rent checks in the absence of the boss. I was put on company accounts in my first couple days.

    I hadn't thought of the possibility of him wanting to get rid of the bookkeeper so he could embezzle. He told me he fired the last bookkeeper for mixing up his and the vice president's W2s and sending his to VP and vice versa. He also said "there were other things" but that was the main thing. I had the feeling he just didn't like her.

    With the current bookkeper, it even seems like he's trying to PLANT reasons to fire the poor guy. He brought me in to his office the other day, right after we got paid, and told me bookkeeper had screwed up his withholding. Said he'd been claiming 0 dependents "forever" and changed to 2 for this month to decrease his withholding. But his withholding had INCREASED with the change, so he wanted me to get with the bookkeeper, get records and find out what was up. Bookkeeper pulled out boss' old 2003 W4 and showed me where he'd been claiming 10 dependents, not 0, since 2003 (bookkeeper was hired in 2005). When I showed boss this, he immediately started claiming (in a not very nice way) that the bookkeeper told him he was claiming 0 before the change to 2, and even looked at the copy of the old W4 I showed him and said that wasn't his handwriting I don't believe this for a second. I think the boss just screwed up and can't admit. But every day he's giving me something new to try and find that the bookkeeper does wrong.

    My main thought is that boss just can't admit when he makes mistakes, blames everyone else, etc. There is an ongoing issue with the insurance company that provides our medical benefit, that has been going on since April with the last office manager and I have inherited. From what I can see, the boss is just misunderstanding, but he keeps blaming the insurance company, the agent, the administrative assistant, he even tried to blame the bookkeeper for one thing that had ZERO to do with bookkeeper.

    It almost seems like a personal vendetta against the bookkeeper.

    I think the last office manager left because she got tired of putting up with the boss' shit. She doesn't say a word, but from things I've heard, that's what I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Featured Member The_Oceans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    I can't speak with certainty, not being in the exact situation...I don't think that there's necessarily anything nefarious about the guy, just that he's not a very good manager and he lets personal differences with people color his professional relationships.

    Don't know how big a company you're working for either; is there someone in your company that you can talk with (perhaps even anonymously) about your boss? If there are concerns about his business ethics then he's not only putting you and your direct employees at risk, but the entire company.

    BTW, I worked as an assistant estimator for a landscape construction firm for a couple of years before my current job. I don't know if I'd necessarily call it "sales" - but it did involve pricing and developing proposals on jobs to prime contractors, local governments, etc.
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    Default Re: Help?

    I am the office manager at the current job, and the last office manager had her name on the business accounts as well.
    If you're the office manager, that makes sense. I've worked for several companies where embezzlements happened, so I might be a bit on the paranoid end of things. It's hard to embezzle when someone's keeping clean books. Many embezzlement I've seen start with firing of accountants and bookkeepers, and often a frequent rotation of staff.

    On the other hand, if he's hell-bent on blaming everyone else and not taking responsibility, I would be VERY careful to keep your own records, because if something goes wrong, esp with money (misunderstandings- like he thinks there should be more money in the account and what have you been doing with the money- type accusations), you may get blamed for it and the onus is on you to show that you're not doing any wrongdoing.

    If the boss is the type to look for reasons to fire ppl out of personal "dislikes," then your job security rests on this guy's personal preference, not your job performance. These types of situations can become incredibly stressful. I had a boss like this before, and I used to leave the office in tears of anger every day until I found another job.

    If your boss has another boss above him, I would try to get an idea of their relationship. If your boss is really chummy with the higher-ups, then you're probably not going to be heard. If they're not on good terms, it might work to your benefit. In either case, I would proceed very carefully as this can backfire on you, and I would wait a while, to give the impression that you've been with the company long enough to know what you're talking about. You don't wanna be known as the shit-starter or a whiner by rushing this card too soon.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    He is THE boss. It's a small company, a engineering consulting firm. There is him (president and CEO), and the vice president for bosses. I report to the president. I don't know what he does in his office all day - I think he spends the day scheming ideas on how to fire the bookkeeper It's everyone else who does the work - the vice president is the one who does all the proposals and manages most of the projects.

    The more I think about it, the more I think I want to try the other job. It would take me in a completely different direction career-wise, but I think it would be fun. I guess if I fail miserably at the selling part, I can always go back to office management LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    To me, my sanity and liking a job would be well worth a $5k a year pay cut. Just don't put too much focus on the money and look at what you want to do and will be happy with. Getting up in the morning and looking forward to going to work will show in how you do in any job. Thats how I feel anyway. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish as I'm 23 and have only had one "real" job (don't consider fast food in HS a real job). But even with that job I enjoyed it because of the people I worked with. The job was meh but the coworkers made it fun. A good boss/coworkers makes for a good job imo.

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    B- I can't gauge your situation, however:

    I worked for a guy once who sddenly turned on and fired employees for no reason. He'd bitch to me about them for weeks, months, and suspect them of everything from petty theft to passing company secrets. Suddenly, one day he'd explode and they'd be gone, replaced by someone new who was quickly pulled into the company fold and treated like gold. Until he decided that they were conspiring against him too..

    As far as I could tell, no one ever actually did anything wrong. The things he suspected, and his reasoning, were fabrications. I was his longest-lasting employee, and though I saw it going on around me, I figured I was probably exempt, because, I reasoned, I had made myself quite indispensible to the company, and further, was scrupulously honest.

    Well, anyways, of course, it happened to me one day. It was pretty unceremonious, and it pissed me off. What pissed me off the most, however, how was in retrospect all the signs were there, and I should have known better and gotten myself out of the situation.

    food for thought-

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    God/dess fancygirl's Avatar
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    I think the fact that you're so worried about Job A means that you should just take Job B. As long as Job B doesn't turn out to be as horrible, I think you'll find a lot more comfort and sanity in not having to tiptoe around the boss and wonder about motives and temper tantrums.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    That's pretty much what I'm afraid of with this guy. If he'll do it to one, he'll to it to another. Which means there's no reason he wouldn't do it to me. I think I'll take the other job.

    I have interviewed extensively with the boss regarding the other job, asked him tons of questions, and he volunteers lots of info. I think he is very forthright and honest in his dealings, which would be much better than dealing with the current boss. I would also get to spend alot of time going around to different building sites, making estimates and such, which would be alot more fun than being stuck in some office all day every day. The boss says he thinks I would do really well in part because I'd be a woman in a male-dominated business, which would give me competitive advantage. And I don't mind using that to my advantage

    Thanks yall. I really just needed some input besides my own. I'm gonna call the other guy on Monday and accept the job. Construction industry, here I come

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Featured Member aviendha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    Bosses who look for reasons to fire people they don't like are pretty common, unfortunately. And yes, if he'll do it to the bookkeeper, he'll do it to anyone, including you. It sucks, but if you have another option, I'd take it. If you don't have another option, I'd document every single thing you ever do, so that if Evil Boss claims, "Hey, you didn't do XYZ," you can whip out the appropriate form and prove that you did the proper thing.
    If nothing else, if he does fire you and try to claim it was for cause, you can prove that it wasn't, which will help you when filing for unemployment.

    If you wanted to get back at him, you could document the boss's continual requests for digging and any claims of wrongdoing on the part of the bookkeeper that weren't true, and you'd have (or rather the bookkeeper would have) a pretty nice case for harassment and a hostile work environment.

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    I just wanted to say that every job I've had where I had "office management" positions...there was always a bookkeeper. I've never had a job where I could write checks without "someone in the know" (ie. bookkeeper/accountant) tracking and logging the information for taxes/etc. It would put me on the defensive to have "full access" to everything in the company accounts with no one to track this stuff. I did work with a boss who was fired for embezzling money (after I left) for having his OM write checks for "bogus" receipts. There was no accountant/bookkeeper and when it all came down, he tried to put the blame on the OM.

    I can't stress enough how cautious you need to be around this boss. He's dishonest, unorganized, manic, and he's trying to "pull" you into the fray. That would set klaxon horns off in my mind. Especially since you are now on the "checks" and he's trying to get rid of a very capable bookkeeper/accountant.

    If you are uncomfortable in the new job, there is nothing that is going to ease your mind. Sometimes the greatest rewards come with the most risks. Just make sure that when you get those big paychecks, you sock as much as possible away for the "lean" times.

    I think you should just jump with both feet into the sales job.

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    Default Re: Help?

    So you boss has been claiming 10 dependents when he really has much less. Hmmm maybe there is a way to report him to the IRS. Also when you leave make sure you take copies of documentation with you showing all the you signed for financially. After you quit he will most likely try to say you where stealing. Also once you do leave give the bookkeeper a heads up on the situation. But I am sure he is suffering already. I hope that you can still take that other job for the sake of your health and sanity.
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    Default Re: Help?

    ^ You can claim whatever # you want on your paycheck withholdings. But, it has to be rectified on the actual taxes you submit to the IRS.

    But, yeah, you may want to take some back-up docs to cover you if you've been signing for checks (keep multiple copies of every invoice, etc that you write a check for).

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Well, I haven't signed any checks. I was only put on the account so I could do stuff like sign payroll, rent, insurance checks in the boss' absence. I am on the online cash management so I can make the payroll transfer for the employees' direct deposits. But I have not even been there long enough to do any of that yet.

    I HAVE used the company credit cards to book a couple trips for the VP and to buy one software package and pay for one USPS express package online. There are, of course, receipts for that and I guess I'll just make myself some copies.

    Everything else I have authorized has been checks for invoices which the bookkeeper prints out of Quickbooks and the boss signs. Invoices for regular bills and nothing more.

    I had already decided I would tell the bookkeeper what's up when I leave so he can at least start looking for another job.

    I don't think the boss is trying to get rid of ANY bookkeeper; I think he just wants someone new. Either way, I don't like the situation and I don't feel like waiting around for it to be my turn. I'd rather take the opportunity I have for the sales job. The guy just called me Thursday and said he'd give me a week to decide if I needed it, but I won't wait that long. I'm gonna call him on Monday.

    Oh, and TO, I would the an estimator, not an assistant, and it's been explained to me very clearly that it is, in fact, a sales job. Commissions and all. After a year or so I'd have to work strictly on commission, but that's ok by me - I was doing it for damn near 11 years as stripper and it gives me the chance to make alot more money

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: Help?

    Heh, No offense bridgette, but take the other job. This sounds like bad club drama.
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    Default Re: Help?

    Does a job exist where there is no drama? Its everywhere.

    Female estimators can make bank. But contractors are the flakiest professionals in the world, flakier than strippers and realtors oftentimes. BUT, sales commissions are goooooood, let me tell you. And you would make an excellent salesperson. You will have to work very hard to build up clientele. Its so different from the club. Regulars and referrals are KEY. But you can do it.

    I would stick with this gig for a little longer though, see how it pans out. I doubt your boss is trying to embezzle. Everyone else seems to be a bit on the paranoid side, but that could just be me.

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    Default Re: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Does a job exist where there is no drama? Its everywhere.
    It will continue to be everywhere for until we all as a species cease to exist. Just one of those "lovely" things you have to accept in any profession or "job"... that as long as you work with other imperfect beings (humans) you will have dramas. Not every "boss" is a good one. The good ones are gold and are also like gold... hard to find! lol...

    Anyway, take the sales job. Regardless of the industry/field that you are being a salesperson within... if you end up even being mildly successful ... you can take that knowledge/skill and use it elsewhere.

    Besides, being an OM means having to deal (as you already are dealing) with office politics more than if you are contantly moving around the place. Besides, I don't know how the construction industry is in your area (or the area/territory you will cover)... here in Aust. it is going good...


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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Yeah, there is most definitely some kind of drama in any job. But there is less in some places, and there are better bosses. My concern isn't the possibility of embezzlement, but firing for personal reasons. I don't want to stay in a job where the boss will fire someone who does their job merely because he doesn't like that person. I don't want to wait around for it to happen to me. I'd rather take my chances with a different career than wonder when the boss will decide he doesn't like me and fire me - and deal with the bad reference that will leave on my resume.

    I can deal with some things better than others. A boss who will go out of his way to make up a reason to fire a good employee is not one of them.

    And mast, what would be offensive about your post??

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Featured Member The_Oceans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    Gotcha, B. Sounds like you'd be working for a general contractor, a much larger outfit than I worked for (the company I worked for had only two estimators, and they basically were part-owners in the company - we were small, but did some large jobs). The thing about the construction industry is that you can pass by jobs your company built, and feel like you had a hand in it, even if you never pounded a nail or laid a brick.

    Besides, we all have enough drama in our own lives; why add to it with a shady job (especially one you've just started, so you're not emotionally invested in it)?
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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help?

    Yeah, it's one of the biggest companies in the region, owned by one of the biggest construction companies in the country. Which of course brings its own set of bullshit, but I'm ready for the change.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Help?

    Have to agree; nothing good can come out of this arrangement. That's too bad, but it's great you have another alternative.
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    Default Re: Help?

    Heck, the problem isn't limited to the fact that the boss might fire you if he changes his disposition. Even if you never fall out of favor, how secure can this company's future be when a top official is wasting all his damn time trying to fabricate ways to get rid of a top-notch employee instead of inspiring the troops and innovating ways to make more money. He thinks he's declaring zero dependents when he has actually declared ten? Does he realize he has a future in strip club management?

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    ^^LOL!! The thought, "I might as well strip if I'm gonna put up with this shit" did cross my mind a couple times

    My problem now is, do I give some notice or just walk out? I could start at the other company right away. I will not stick around for the 3-4 weeks it will take them to find someone else. At most I'd be willing to work this week. I am already planning to call in sick tomorrow. Have some things that need to be taken care of and frankly after having shit sleep all weekend I don't feel like putting up with his shit in the morning. And I don't really care if it looks bad at this point, since I'm quitting anyway.

    On top of his other faults, he is a shitty money manager too. He apparently needs money so badly that he had to give himself a "bonus" last week to make up for the extra withholding resulting from his W4 change. And he made me get with the bookkeeper to figure out how many dependents he'd have to claim to reduce his withholding to $x. Turned out the number is 17. This is a man who pays himself $100k / year but desperately needs an additional $400 a month To further prove his poor financial skill, he purposely lets things slide when he could save some money legitimately. Each time I've offered to do something that would result in avoiding an overpayment, he gives me that "$X isn't gonna make us or break us, and you need to spend your time on more important things" line. Yeah, I guess plotting to fire the bookkeeper is MUCH more cost-effective in his eyes

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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