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Thread: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

    Arrgggh...it drives me crazy. They all talk exactly the same, using the same axioms and cliches! I tell my new possible sponser, "I will go to a meeting tomorrow but I have client appointments at x time."

    Her response, "if you had cancer would you not go to chemo because you had to meet with clients".

    Godfuckingdammit! I can't retort because then its the "disease talking."

    I dunno....they drive me crazy......

    Discuss...

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    God/dess PaigeDWinter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    One of my best friends is in AA. And NA. They saved his life. I personally dont agree with everything they subscribe to... but I wouldnt say it's a cult...
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    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    I've heard "God" is part of the program. I also heard the founder of AA asked for a drink on his deathbed. Hmm.
    Money comes before Anything, including AA! That's my religion! LOL

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    I personally believe that there are better ways to kick the habit.

    I feel that the twelve steps are disempowering (my dad was a severe alcoholic) and I was sent to Alateen for a while and quit. The first step of "Admitting that you are powerless" over anything did not sit well with me.

    I don't think it started out as an occult...but people have a tendency to "need" to be obsessed or addicted to something...so they use "safe" stuff to do that with.

  5. #5
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine

    Arrgggh...it drives me crazy. They all talk exactly the same, using the same axioms and cliches! I tell my new possible sponser, "I will go to a meeting tomorrow but I have client appointments at x time."

    Her response, "if you had cancer would you not go to chemo because you had to meet with clients".

    Godfuckingdammit! I can't retort because then its the "disease talking."

    I dunno....they drive me crazy......

    Discuss...
    If you were a doctor, would you let me go to chemo if I couldn't pay the bill or have health insurance?

    What you are doing is voluntary and holding a respected position is a big part of changing your life. You are still in charge of your life... just changing some of the decisions you make on how you live it. If she really wants to support you she has to understand how your career fits into your overall life objectives.

    Good luck.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    ^ Great words of wisdom!

    The best way to support someone is to not guilt trip them into going to the meetings!!

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Well you don't have cancer. Even if it is a disease, it doesn't follow that all diseases have to be treated the same. Some people obviously find it useful - some people might really require something that strictly regimented, and need to privilege the addiction in their life above other things. AA has helped a lot of people, so perhaps they can be forgiven for believing that everyone requires that. Some people, obviously, don't. It seems to me (and you would be in a better position to know this than I) that work is important to you - and right now a still newish job is part of a greater lifestyle change. Work can be very validating and fulfilling and you would not be the first person to find it more valuable than an AA meeting (if in fact you do, and are not just managing a schedule). Being a recovering alcoholic does not mean that you cannot manage your time.
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    Miss. Kristina Lee
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    its not for everyone. i thought it was a crock of shit. i quit a bad coke addiction cold turkey with no help from anyone. it just depends on the person and what they need. sounds like the program isnt for you.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Its all up to you as said previous its a volunteer program so you can leave anytime you like . Its all about what you want and you must decide if you want to be alcohol free first if not it will never work . And sponsers are there to support you and give encouragement and sometimes be a little pushy . I am not in any program at this time as it wasnt for me but I did quit drinking about 8 months ago and remain sober - until my first drink lol . This is my second and hopefully final go-around my first time I quit for over a year . This time however I have a whole different mind set and have change my overall lifestyle to suit what I need out of life ( and also be aware of others who suffer because of my indulgence ) . I wish you all the best in your uphill battle it will smooth out over time but you must always be on alert .

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    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    AA pulled a friend of mine from the brink, and did absolutely nothing for a very close relative - in fact, made him completely depressed.

    My friend needed to stop drinking, pure and simple. My close relative needed to stop drinking situationally. They each had different behavioral triggers that they responded to. There's just not a one-size-fits-all.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    I feel that the twelve steps are disempowering (my dad was a severe alcoholic) and I was sent to Alateen for a while and quit. The first step of "Admitting that you are powerless" over anything did not sit well with me
    Yep....more like any organised religion 'One couldn't possibly help themselves'..It's pathetic. It's wrong. It's false information.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    If you had cancer you'd be able to schedule your chemo treatments around a time frame that worked out for YOU. ie: treatments on thursdays to allow you the weekend to recuperate.

    It sounds like you're on the right path, Katrine. Everything doesn't need to be perfect all at once. I think you should prioritize what is important to YOU right now. Aren't there meetings like, several times a week anyhow? Maybe today's meeting isn't the right one to start attending.


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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Yes, it's a cult, imho. What I find ironic is that in their quest to quit abusing alcohol, AA members end up obsessing over it for the rest of their lives.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    that site is an interesting read.

    A prior therapist told me that she didnt believe that abstinence was neccessarily the route to take. She believed in moderation and control. Thats worked well for me. But I guess if somebody cant control the amount they consume then abstaining would work best.

    I hope you find something that works for you.


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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    Yes, it's a cult, imho. What I find ironic is that in their quest to quit abusing alcohol, AA members end up obsessing over it for the rest of their lives.
    I always found it kinda trippy how they have birthdays, or the exact date and time that they quit. I mean, I dont put shit up my nose anymore but I couldnt tell you EXACTLY when I stopped.


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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Well, I guess that the idea of "looking forward to something other than drinking" is why they keep track of the "coins" (do they still do those??). However, I have found that people who are overcoming addictions do better when they find outside activities that stimulate their creative spirit do better with overcoming addictions. It's not about "not facing" the addiction...it's all about taking the energy that previously was expended on the addiction and putting it to some more creative uses.

    I firmly believe that what you focus on becomes reality. "I won't get drunk, I won't get drunk...I won't drink that...I won't snort that..." eventually you wear down and do it. Because you are spending so much energy on NOT doing it, that you eventually do. But, by being more "open" about it and saying, "I think I will do ________ (paint, play piano, find a new hobby, go waterskiing, etc) today" is better than maintaining your focus on what you do NOT want and focusing on what you DO want.

    It's all a matter of perspective. Waking up in the morning telling yourself that you don't want something will get you thinking about how much you do not want it. But, focusing on what you do want will do the same and it will have a much better outcome.

    What you resist, persists.

    You are not powerless, but extremely powerful and just need to learn how to use that inner power a little differently.


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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    AA has quite literally saved the lives of some people near and dear to me. I do not think it's a cult. A "higher power" can be anything you want it to be. Plus I think it's important for people who are addicts to admit they are powerless in the face of alcohol. If you can use in moderation then you're not an alcoholic, period. By definition an alcoholic does not drink in moderation. The idea that someone with this disease could just use "willpower" to have one drink and stop is seriously misguided and misinformed and pisses me off.

    I understand the annoying factor, certainly. I haven't had a drink in four years and you are goddamn right I remember the date of my last drink. However, AA hasn't really been a huge part of my life. For my mother it was crucial; she has been sober for eighteen years and still attends meetings regularly.

    I think that there are different ways to stay sober, but one thing to never forget is that once you are an addict or an alcoholic you stay that way, and that you can never outsmart it. Character, willpower, and intellect have fuck all to do with succumbing to it.

  18. #18
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Hey, if it's working for you, fine. What I meant about "money religion" is that work should come before AA meetings....Can't making money be your new "addiction"? That would be great!

    I have heard of some former alcoholics being able to have a drink here & there and not go off the deep end. Strangely, some personalities respond better to extremely restrictive methods (i.e. all the former addicted Reborn Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.)...Some people have to move beyond a point in their lives. Some will never get better.

    Good luck.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    AA is a cult. as cults go, since they don't ask for money, they don't rouse my ire all that much compared to say amway. but the idea of pathologizing every kind of drinking one can do is a bit problematic to me.

    AA pretty much is 'make avoiding booze your new addiction', which is a relatively harmless addiction compared to actually being drunk all the time. but it's not the best overall solution for a lot of people. it does help a decent percentage of people though, which is never a bad thing.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    Well, I guess that the idea of "looking forward to something other than drinking" is why they keep track of the "coins" (do they still do those??). However, I have found that people who are overcoming addictions do better when they find outside activities that stimulate their creative spirit do better with overcoming addictions. It's not about "not facing" the addiction...it's all about taking the energy that previously was expended on the addiction and putting it to some more creative uses.

    Yes they still do coins. My friend's leathers are covered in em (he's a biker).

    And I agree with the outside activities thing. My friend's AA group is primarily bikers. They have a crew and they always ride together. They just get up and go places... they have benefits. They do charity stuff. Its grand. I've gone with him to some of his AA events.. Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc... and it is so NOT cult-like... really. Maybe more like organized religion, but certainly not cultish. There are plenty of AA members who are not stuck on the God aspect... and plenty who simply use the steps as inspiration, not as law. Hell... my friend is a pagan... so the God aspect of it is NOT taken literally.

    I know it isnt for everyone. Hell, I dont think I could do AA... But the fact of the matter is, like their steps or not, AA has helped a lot of people. A lot of lives are still burning bright because of those steps. Just like a lot of people find the will to live thanks to their religion... or people find their way to better health thanks to a specific diet regimen... It really isnt too far off from saying that SOME people are happy being Catholic... or SOME people are happy being on the Atkins diet. But not everyone.
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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    Quote Originally Posted by PaigeDWinter
    And I agree with the outside activities thing. My friend's AA group is primarily bikers. They have a crew and they always ride together. They just get up and go places... they have benefits. They do charity stuff. Its grand. I've gone with him to some of his AA events.. Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc... and it is so NOT cult-like... really. Maybe more like organized religion, but certainly not cultish. There are plenty of AA members who are not stuck on the God aspect... and plenty who simply use the steps as inspiration, not as law. Hell... my friend is a pagan... so the God aspect of it is NOT taken literally.
    I think this is awesome!! All of the groups I've seen are dry drunks getting together to smoke, drink coffee, and bitch/complain/"share" stories.

    I think hanging out with others who have the same mind-set (not drinking) and doing things that help you feel better (charities, motorcycle cruising) and put the focus NOT on drinking but FEELING GOOD is the best way to go. Bravo to this AA group!!!

    Most groups are not like that...and I hope that they start following suit of this one group and start.

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    Temporarily Banned Vaughn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    No, AA is not a cult.

    People can get extreem or cult like about lots of things such as religon, politics, self help , charity and so on. Hell some people even get extreem or cult-ish about sex!

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    You say cult like it's a bad thing

    Seriously.. it helps some people, I'm glad it's so well known/available. Alcoholism is a terrible thing.

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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    I'm in full agreement with Susan W on this matter.

    Plus I think it's important for people who are addicts to admit they are powerless in the face of alcohol. If you can use in moderation then you're not an alcoholic, period. By definition an alcoholic does not drink in moderation. The idea that someone with this disease could just use "willpower" to have one drink and stop is seriously misguided and misinformed and pisses me off.
    Whenever I hear people talk about moderating or controlling a negative, addictive behavior that's making their lives unmanageable, I laugh; if you have to control your behavior in order to function, you've already lost control. If you could will/rationalize/philosophize yourself to not compulsively drink/drug/fuck/gamble/et al, you'd logically have already eliminated that negativity from your life! But when you're an addict, you can't. To quote many drunks I've heard in the past, "When you're an alcoholic, it's the first drink that gets you drunk."

    I know a lot of people that are in the program--some almost forty years--and what they've found through experience is that AA is a program of attraction, not promotion; they don't make anyone do anything and they don't advertise. You'll find plenty of old-timers that will tell you they spilled more alcohol than you ever drank, and that AA simply isn't for everyone--it's only for those that want it and need it. It's really that simple.

    To be even more concise, a woman I know well who has been in AA for almost thirty years said to me, "Some people are sicker than others, and I'm not one of the others."

    AA is not for the others.
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    Default Re: Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult??

    As a retired addict I can say honestly that the program isn't for everyone. When it works it does wonders, my family would be several members short if not for the program. A family member who will remain nameless has been sober for 21 years thanks to AA/NA and he's a fuckload nicer nowadays than he was as I was growing up. There are some groups who refuse to move on and do shit, then there are some who ride together, hang out together etc...
    I tried the 90in90 thing when I first went into treatment and it did nothing for me, I was in a bad place in my life and couldn't listen to other people talk about their lives and I relapsed briefly. I haven't done any narcotics since 89 and I did it without meetings, but my way will not work for everyone-some people honestly need the companionship/support/friendships AA/NA offers.
    No I don't think it's a cult.....Home Depot is a cult!

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