I guess this is never going to end, no matter what!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm



I guess this is never going to end, no matter what!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm


For all the lovely ladies and gents in the UK.....please be safe today if you have to travel!!
Is this [email protected]#t ever going to end?!!?![]()
The bullshit will end when we finally realize and accept:
- the "civilians" who dance and throw candy when jews and westerners are blown up
- that those "civilians" who "give to charities,"
- and those civilians who blame israeli's for bombing their homes even though Hezbolla started some shit with kidnappings and rockets (same for Iraq)...
When we realize those "civilians" are collaborators as much as any German in a tie was a nazi in the 30's/40's - that is when we will be out of this mess.
We are also approaching the problem in a distinctly western manner. We had the enlightenment and renaissance periods in our culture.
They still rule by the law of Allah and their leaders are not much different from the religious period where Galileo was imprisoned for saying the earth went around the sun. The church rules them in a way incomprehensible to us westerners. We generally take guidance in our religion. They ACT upon it - if it or their religious leaders say "Kill a Jew!" they WILL support killing jews.
We will someday have to expose them to the explosive power of science and rational thought.
I love that terrorism is a tool that is completely exclusive to islam.Originally Posted by Deogol
Timothy McVEigh certainly took "guidence" in his (our) religion when he committed the second largest terrorist attack on American soil.We generally take guidance in our religion. They ACT upon it
Eric Robert Rudolph certainly also took "guidence" in his murderous rampaganges on gay bars and abortion clinics
The IRA also certainly never undertook a campaign of terror in northern ireland in the name of any enlgihtened western religion (if your unaware, as your comments suggest you to be, the IRA were catholics terrorists who wanted the protestant english out)
The Ustashe were a Croatian Catholic terroist organisation aided and abetting by the highest levels of the Catholic church, who persecuated and killed over 700,000 orthodox serbs and jews. In fact, Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (d.1960) was imprisoned and sentenced to 16 years of hard labor for his support of the Ustasha fascists. He was declared a martyr in 1998 by Pope John Paul II. They have also captured airliners, bombed La Guardia airport and assasinated diplomats.
Apocalyptic japanese buhdist terrorist group 'aum shinrikyo' condusted a fatal sarin gas attack on tokoyo subway that only failed in scale 9they initally thoguht up to 10,000 people would die as the gas spread throguht the subway stations is peak hour and out into the malls above) because the dispensers they used were faulty. They've also tried to develop chemical and nuclear weapons.
maybe before you dismiss the dangerous and fundamentalist edge of christiandom you might want to take a look at these websites:
www.armyofgod.com (see also their manual detailing esculating acts of violence and various murders attributed to their members)
http://www.aryan-nations.org/
www.watchman.org (granted this group are ~moderate christian fundamentalists)
oh, and by the way, christian fundamentalist teaching tells us that UN Secratary General Kofi Anan is an incarnation of the devil and the UN is his proxy to strip away the USA's right to rule the world... god-given of course. these groups have armed military training camps in the US of A.
lets see, shall we keep going?
The jewish Defence Leauge is a right wing extremist group that has killed and wounded 100's of Muslims, including at their place of worship and had a plot foiled to blow up FBI headquaters.
The secualrist Italian Red Brigade terrorised Italy for the best part of two decades kidnapping former Prime Minister Aldo Moro. He was held captive for nearly two months, before his body was finally dumped in the heart of Rome.
HTML Code:[HTML]and those civilians who blame israeli's for bombing their homes even though Hezbolla started some shit with kidnappings and rockets (same for Iraq)...[/HTML]HTML Code:and those civilians who blame israeli's for bombing their homes even though Hezbolla started some shit with kidnappings and rockets (same for Iraq)...
if you had bothered to read anything but the headlines surrounding the recent conflict you would know that Israel occuppied Lebanon from 1978-2000. Oddly, the Lebanese wern't too pleased and grass roots militas (yes, hezbollah) employed terrorist tactics. What the western media doesn't like to tell us is that helzbollah was originally a religious charity which provided basic medical and education needs to the impoversihed Shiite's of Southern Lebanon. they deveopled a para-military wing during occupation. they also have a legitimate political wing within lebanon much like Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA. After a 22 year occuption, many of these people understandably didn't like Israel. Furthermore Israel has illegally kidnapped and imprisoned tens of thousands of lebanese and palestian political prisoners, without trial and without charge. Many of these prisoners have been subjected to documented routine torture breaking sevral international treaties and covenants that Israel is a signatory of. Israel has ignored UN calls for a fair and equitable trial or charge for these prisoners. So far, in this conflict alone, Israel has killed over a 1000 civilans and left up to a million potentially homeless. hezbollah, has offered finnacial help to people who have lost everything; maybe if Israel offered to rebuild the homes, hospitals, schools, universities, businesses and lives it has destroyed the influence of radicals would be greatly diminshed. After all, Israel does maintain that it was only Hezbollah's weaponary they were after...
fundamentalism occurs in every religion. The activities of fundamentalists are deadly, destructive and indiscrimiante.
but sure... they're only limited to islam
^^^
أنتم جهل
And let me add:
The ball is green.
The apple is green.
The ball is round.
The apple is round.
But the ball is not an apple.
Last edited by Deogol; 08-19-2006 at 10:45 PM.




I don't think Deogol was saying that Islamics are the only terrorists....i think he was just commenting on the situation at hand.......am i right?
Last edited by MishaBliss; 08-21-2006 at 05:02 AM.
Yes. I believe there are christian terrorists in the United States and have said so before. However, christian terrorists are not as accepted in our secular society as "Islamic Martyr's" are in islamic societies.Originally Posted by MishaBliss
But her post is important because it gives me an opportunity to explain the fundamental misunderstanding that western "liberals" have of the situation in the middle east.
I am always entertained by so called intellectuals who feel they have a grip on things when they don't even know how to speak the language of the land and are unfamiliar with what is considered family programming in the middle east:
as well as accepted education
She attempts to make the local gang of nazi thugs that live down the street in the trailer to socially accepted "martyrs" funded by islamic states (who would have her stoned to death for her job by the way) who are internationally organized and funded by the common people as much as the wealthy. People who are praised in the streets by parades of 10's of thousands of people (100's of thousands sometimes!) The local nazi thugs usually get thousands of people in the streets here - but to throw tomato's at them for being the stupid asses they are.
No, instead of accepting there are people in this world with their own belief systems, their own historys, and their own ability to think - it is easier for the "liberal" to make all these people mere puppets of white christian upper income western leaders - aka "the man."
You see, the solution then becomes far more easier - all the "liberal" has to do is spew shun and loathing upon their own people who are near enough to throw stones at.
They reframe the problem as a problem in America and not in north africa or western asia. Of course, the solution to a problem in america with american methods and in the context of american rights is far easier than over there where you will face execution for becoming a christian:
or simply will not be allowed on the streets to even demonstrate if you are of the "wrong" faith (in fact, they will throw you out of the country - usually after a good beating):
The intese irony of this viewpoint is that they mock the US as being the problem to the world's ills - and yet are so US-centristic as to think the solution is in the US by shouting "Hypocrite! Hypocrite!" A certainly valid message IN the US, but NOT IN the muslim world.
So you see, dear MishaBliss, I find postings like hers to be incredibly entertaining for their irony and flat out villainy to the rights and needs of people outside the US. If she were to go anyplace in north africa and western asia demanding to be an out-spoken woman stripper in the very least she would have acid thrown on her face () and at worst - tied into a bag and thrown into a river to drown (.
This is the greatness of America - where we even allow the fools to speak.
But of course, with western reporting that accepts this nonsense as news, I can't hold it against her to badly:
Last edited by Deogol; 08-20-2006 at 10:33 AM.





Former British Ambassador Craig Murray on the so-called 'terror plot':
The UK Terror plot: what's really going on?
I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.
So this, I believe, is the true story.
None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.
In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.
What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.
Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth.
The gentleman being "interrogated" had fled the UK after being wanted for questioning over the murder of his uncle some years ago. That might be felt to cast some doubt on his reliability. It might also be felt that factors other than political ones might be at play within these relationships. Much is also being made of large transfers of money outside the formal economy. Not in fact too unusual in the British Muslim community, but if this activity is criminal, there are many possibilities that have nothing to do with terrorism.
We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing the possible arrests over the weekend. Why? I think the answer to that is plain. Both in desperate domestic political trouble, they longed for "Another 9/11". The intelligence from Pakistan, however dodgy, gave them a new 9/11 they could sell to the media. The media has bought, wholesale, all the rubbish they have been shovelled.
We then have the appalling political propaganda of John Reid, Home Secretary, making a speech warning us all of the dreadful evil threatening us and complaining that "Some people don't get" the need to abandon all our traditional liberties. He then went on, according to his own propaganda machine, to stay up all night and minutely direct the arrests. There could be no clearer evidence that our Police are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those arrested included a mother with a six week old baby.
For those who don't know, it is worth introducing Reid. A hardened Stalinist with a long term reputation for personal violence, at Stirling Univeristy he was the Communist Party's "Enforcer", (in days when the Communist Party ran Stirling University Students' Union, which it should not be forgotten was a business with a very substantial cash turnover). Reid was sent to beat up those who deviated from the Party line.
We will now never know if any of those arrested would have gone on to make a bomb or buy a plane ticket. Most of them do not fit the "Loner" profile you would expect - a tiny percentage of suicide bombers have happy marriages and young children. As they were all under surveillance, and certainly would have been on airport watch lists, there could have been little danger in letting them proceed closer to maturity - that is certainly what we would have done with the IRA.
In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot. Of the over one thousand British Muslims arrested under anti-terrorist legislation, only twelve per cent are ever charged with anything. That is simply harrassment of Muslims on an appalling scale. Of those charged, 80% are acquitted. Most of the very few - just over two per cent of arrests - who are convicted, are not convicted of anything to do terrorism, but of some minor offence the Police happened upon while trawling through the wreck of the lives they had shattered.
Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical.
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archive..._terror_p.html



I ran across a couple of links someone posted on another mbOriginally Posted by dlabtot
http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/18/stories/2006081805591100.htm
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fod...me=harsh&sid=1





and more:
Pakistanis find no evidence against ‘terror mastermind’
By GLEN OWEN 22:46pm 19th August 2006
The Briton alleged to be the ‘mastermind’ behind the airline terror plot could be innocent of any significant involvement, sources close to the investigation claim.
Rashid Rauf, whose detention in Pakistan was the trigger for the arrest of 23 suspects in Britain, has been accused of taking orders from Al Qaeda’s ‘No3’ in Afghanistan and sending money back to the UK to allow the alleged bombers to buy plane tickets.
But after two weeks of interrogation, an inch-by-inch search of his house and analysis of his home computer, officials are now saying that his extradition is ‘a way down the track’ if it happens at all.
t comes amid wider suspicions that the plot may not have been as serious, or as far advanced, as the authorities initially claimed.
Analysts suspect Pakistani authorities exaggerated Rauf’s role to appear ‘tough on terrorism’ and impress Britain and America.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...&icc=NEWS&ct=5
Sadly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if these things begin to also happen on a regular basis in the U.S as long as Bush is in office. I can so see him trying to say an infant was a terrorist. I'm kidding about that last part, well sort of anywayThere could be no clearer evidence that our Police are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those arrested included a mother with a six week old baby.![]()
Summary of everything that's wrong in Islamic countries, according to the writers I've read:
1) The West, particularly America, interfered.
2) The West, particularly America, didn't interfere.
At last count amnesty international found 22 children under the age of 12 in Guantanemo bay, 3 were under the age of 12 and all were under the age of 14 when imprisoned.Originally Posted by Vaughn
and when critiqing me I appreciate not being refered to in the Brehctian third person.
What i find so intrinscially arraogant about the American opinion, is that you insit on comparing fundamentalist islam to the moderate west. I have no problem critiqing fundamentalist islamic movements or fundamnetalist islamic states but compare them to the fundamnetalist edges of "our culture" which has a equal disrespect for diversity and equally bigoted opinion and sytems. If you are going to talk abou the moderate west then compare it to moderate islam. I see no comparison been made to moderate muslims who are as progresssive and acceptive as any other religion. You go to countires like malaysia and you see the true meaning of multicultralism and acceptance. Compare fundamentalists with fundametalists, but alas you seem to be brainwashed by the bush adminstration, fox news view of the world....
At least pretend to realise their are moderate muslims who, despite the propaganda Americans appear to cohesively believe, do make up the majority and who are as offend by the actions of fundamentalists as I am of the doctrine expoused by christian fundamentalists.
Its incredidbly interesting to compare the speaches of George the Smaller and various extremeist leaders and the dialouge is literally identical.
the first sentance above is supposed to read under the age of 16... [cont]





At least pretend to realise the hundreds of millions of people you refer to when you use the word americans do not all share the same opinion....Originally Posted by xtina20
pfft... talk about the pot calling the kettle black.....
point well noted...Originally Posted by dlabtot
![]()
that was grossly unfair of me. apologies. What i meant to refer to was institutionalised "opinion"-the USA also has some of the most incredible civil liberatrian and protest movements in the world and many many millions who don't buy the conservative line-
honestly didn't mean 2 offend
Notice how our populations widely condemned these actions and took bold moves to imprison (or execute) the offenders. Therein lies the inherent difference between Western civilization and Islamist movements abroad and the so-called Arab street;Timothy McVEigh certainly took "guidence" in his (our) religion when he committed the second largest terrorist attack on American soil.
Eric Robert Rudolph certainly also took "guidence" in his murderous rampaganges on gay bars and abortion clinics
The IRA also certainly never undertook a campaign of terror in northern ireland in the name of any enlgihtened western religion (if your unaware, as your comments suggest you to be, the IRA were catholics terrorists who wanted the protestant english out)
The Ustashe were a Croatian Catholic terroist organisation aided and abetting by the highest levels of the Catholic church, who persecuated and killed over 700,000 orthodox serbs and jews. In fact, Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (d.1960) was imprisoned and sentenced to 16 years of hard labor for his support of the Ustasha fascists. He was declared a martyr in 1998 by Pope John Paul II. They have also captured airliners, bombed La Guardia airport and assasinated diplomats.
Apocalyptic japanese buhdist terrorist group 'aum shinrikyo' condusted a fatal sarin gas attack on tokoyo subway that only failed in scale 9they initally thoguht up to 10,000 people would die as the gas spread throguht the subway stations is peak hour and out into the malls above) because the dispensers they used were faulty. They've also tried to develop chemical and nuclear weapons.
Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.
William F. Buckley, Jr.
Ira???


Irish Republican ArmyOriginally Posted by xtina20
sorry, that was obviously confusing...
I mean't it in terms of how bout the IRA????
they were overwhelming supported by the (catholic) majority of northern ireland,
as were (almost to this day) the ustashe by the majority of (catholic) croatians in their gross violations...
infact, interestlying, both terrorist groups have evolved into now becoming legitiamte political players in their respective countries-neeedless to say with a overwhelming support base.
just pointing out, i'm not supporting the behaviour in any of these cases... just pointing out that its merely a case of history repeating-not the new phenomenon we've been lead to believe it is...
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