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Thread: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

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    Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Hey all... This is my first post, actually ran into this site rather by accident. I'm hoping I can get some good advice, both from an (unbiased / anonymous) female perspective as well as from a dancer's perspective.

    My apologies on the length, but I want to get some solid opinions / advice - and I think it's important to know the whole story.

    For starters, let me first say that I'm no dummy. I know that dancing is merely a gig for you women - and honestly, with the exception of my first (naive) time or two in a SC, I've never had any sort of foolish fantasies of having any kind of OTC relationship with a dancer, let alone getting her phone number, etc. From my perspective, I look at it as entertainment for myself, the paying customer, and see the dancers as the hard-working women who provide said entertainment. I try to be nice and generous, and enjoy tipping all club staff well, because I understand and respect that aspect of the service industry, in part, because I once had to work for tips ... I know what it's like. Maybe it sounds cheesy or cliched ... but that is me being as plain and honest as I can be.

    That being said ... nearly a month and a half ago, I'd decided to go out, mostly on a whim, to a SC. Wasn't really getting many LD offers, and that was OK, until I caught a glimpse of this dancer, and we made some solid eye contact. So I ende up paying for ~10-12 LDs + tips (when I'm out, I like to have a good time!) .... Through the dances, we talked a fair bit and flirted - as I'd typically expect out of any LD, though it seemed like the conversation had more depth than I would have normally expected. At one point, I specifically commented on her beauty, which is completely out-of-character for me - but, I think, I was really just being honest, and nice, with no expectations. (The compliment was reciprocated as well, though I figured she was just being nice.) Well, by the time she was done dancing, it was closing time, and completely unsolicited, she ended up giving me her (real - ?) name and phone #. This has never happend to me before, and I've never even asked for either from a dancer before. Naturally, I was rather leery of the connotations / implications of this, and so was cautious and a bit nervous.

    Nevertheless ... I figured there wasn't too much harm in trying to follow through and see what may happen - I should emphasize that I have zero desire for anything "extra" out of all of this, I just thought that there was a legitimate connection we shared - call it chemistry, a hunch, a crush, or just plain foolish, I'm not sure ... I felt like I had to at least pursue it and see if anything might come of it.

    Anyhow, we ended up just texting a bit over a few days, until she called me out of the blue one evening. We end up making plans to meet OTC ... but when the time finally came to meet - she never showed. I was a bit annoyed (and upset) about that, but I figured it was definitely a risk, and I had chosen to take that risk. So I went about my way for a few weeks. A few weeks ago, though, I was in with some friends, and at the very end of the night, I saw her again, briefly. She recognized me and greeted me with a hug and a kiss, and told me (what I felt) was some story about how she lost her phone, and needed to replace it blah blah blah (I wasn't very convinced... but wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt - since I am I guess naive that way ).

    But that being said, I couldn't get her out of my mind, and went back the following week. I saw her almost right after having walked in, and she greeted me with another hug. (Mind you, I'm still thinking, at this point, that it's all just a clever, if convincing, sales pitch ) But this time, we ended up talking for quite a while (~30 minutes) with no dances, at which point she wanted to upsell and brought up the idea of spending time in the VIP room ... well, I was still on my guard, but we ended up there, and ended up talking for about half of the evening (a total of ~3 hours). [A side note: yes, I'm fairly sure she ended up making quite a bit of bank that night!]

    Here's the thing though - the conversation that we shared didn't feel like it was fake (she'd mentioned the idea of meeting up OTC a couple of times). Granted, up until this point, I've pretty much been feeling like I've been suckered (though tremendously entertained ) all the way ... but I think she felt similarly as well. It's hard to be sure, of course, but like I said, I'm no dummy, and I tend to think that spotting out the BS from the legit is generally fairly easy. Granted, I'm 26, and may well still be young, dumb, and full of the other stuff .... but, I'd like to think I'm not quite *that* stupid any more Anyway, she insisted that I try to call her again, so that she could have my number, and that she was trying to get her phone situation resolved (still the same story )

    OK ... almost done. So that was a week ago. I went back in this past Friday night - but this time, I went in with one purpose. I had to find out whether or not she was legitimately interested in me (and not just as a wealthy customer!) - that is to say, whether or not she was interested in pursuing any OTC contact with me. I neatly wrote down my contact info on a slip of paper, and left that in my wallet.

    I didn't see her for the first hour and a half I was there. She ended up walking my way and saw me, and said hello. This time, she spent even less time dancing for me. We talked for nearly an hour and a half or so, and the flavor of the conversation was what one would typically expect from a first-date type of experience. At the end of the evening, I explained to her very honestly that I did not want to give her the wrong idea about me. I was not interested in "extras" or anything, but that I felt that there was a legitimate connection between us. I asked her how much of our friendship (if it can be called that) was business vs. 'pleasure' - and she said probably a bit of both. But she again stated that she that she would like to see me OTC, and that she really liked me and told me how I was really down-to-earth and how I wasn't like most of her other customers ( ... ... still had to give her the benefit of the doubt). So this time, I said, quite simply, "Look, I'd love to meet up with you for dinner or maybe coffee outside of the club, so please call me." I gave her the slip of paper with my contact info and paid and tipped her. We hugged, and kissed (on the lips - we'd done this the last time I was in as well), and then I left.

    So there it is. I really feel that there is some chemistry between us. I can understand that she may be equally cautious about approaching me, because she has no idea what kind of weirdo I may turn out to be. But I felt all through that this was one of those rare moments where you meet someone you feel like you have really connected with, and you have to find out if it's real or not.

    OK - now for the brutal reality. Take off my rose-colored glasses! Tell me if I'm being foolish here - if she's really interested in me, why hasn't she called me yet? Is the "phone" story just a ruse? Is she maybe just cautious or nervous?

    Bottom line: should I try and pursue this as more than just "business"? I'm so confused and torn, and end up thinking myself in circles about this. I really am just a pretty what-you-see-is-what-you-get kinda guy, and I don't want to waste my time or energy in getting too invested.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    I don't know,it's hard to say, I wouldn't waste a whole lot of time and energy on her. She knows your number, she knows where to reach you. Yes strippers are busy (believe it or not lol), I know I'm very very busy but don't totally depend on anything happening. Yes, it does happen but remember being in a strip club is a fantasy, you're a fantasy to her and she's a fantasy to you. You two could get out in the "real world" and be two totally different than what you thought you were in the club. Don't call her, wait to see if she calls you.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Well Evh 1980, I am not a dancer but have been in similiar situations many times before... Never is there one answer for all situations, but I would say the simplest way of knowing if she REALLY likes you (and you never will for sure), is if you constantly WONDER whether it's personal or business-IT'S BUSINESS. It's very hard to overcome the fact that you met at SC. Sometimes there maybe a little of both, but the dynamics and hurdles you will have to overcome in determining whether there is more PERSONAL than BUSINESS, will more than likely lead you with a broken heart and wallet, so just don't expect much and you shouldn't be stumbling as much when you approach the last hurdle.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Ok, since this is your first post. Let me tell you I mean this in no harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by evh1980
    For starters, let me first say that I'm no dummy.
    I notice that, in my experience with dummies, is what makes me label them a dummy.

    A dummy, in my opinion, is an otherwise intelligent individual that uses the vast majority of their intellectual thinking capacity to take apparent facts and translate/re-arrange them to create enough fallacy in the overall truth the facts represent that any enforcement of the truth is quickly met with a rebuttle that is, 9 times out of 10, founded on nothing but a glimer of hope that the outcome is not what the facts represent and that they, as an individual, will somehow create a different set of facts.

    Here's the deal. When the facts don't show that you're someone she's interested in romantically, then why hurt yourself by manufacturing that relationship that clearly doesn't exist?

    Just because you overcompensate for her lack of interest doesn't mean she has interest. It means you're grasping at straws to create interest for her.

    However there is hope.

    Understand that the only person in control of how much you let yourself be abused emotionally is you.

    Accept that if she wants you in any romantic sense, she will let you know, and walk away.

    Mast.

    Hey, my client bought the big order from someone else, when I asked why, they said "Oh you're a nice guy, so we'll probably buy the next order from you." That was like 4 months ago... they havn't returned my phone calls... when will the next order come?!
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    It just doesn't sound good. If she really wanted more OTC, then she wouldn't tell you that it's a little personal and a little business. Personally if I really like someone, it seems awkward to dance for them for money. I won't even give a lapdance to someone I'm dating (like at home) if they ask me to. I don't mix business with my personal life. It just complicates things.

    Read this essay. There's alot of truth (and humor) in it.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glamazon
    It just doesn't sound good. If she really wanted more OTC, then she wouldn't tell you that it's a little personal and a little business. Personally if I really like someone, it seems awkward to dance for them for money. I won't even give a lapdance to someone I'm dating (like at home) if they ask me to. I don't mix business with my personal life. It just complicates things.

    Read this essay. There's alot of truth (and humor) in it.

    http://www.gregbruns.com/freelancewr...eastripper.htm
    Yeah, been there done that if a dancer really likes you and its actually more PERSONAL than BUSINESS then she probably wouldn't want to dance for you for $$ and you probably would think more of her than just a "paid grope". Mixing the two does complicate things enormously IMHO

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    Senior Member evh1980's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    All,

    Thanks to those who have replied so far (if not for anything else, then for simply wading through my wall of text )

    Don't call her, wait to see if she calls you.
    Yep, I think this is the same conclusion I've come to myself. Not the easiest pill to swallow, but it is the only fair thing to do.

    if you constantly WONDER whether it's personal or business-IT'S BUSINESS
    True ... and in retrospect, as I started to write down the details of how my (rather silly, I must admit) story unfolded, I began to realize that as well.

    OK, and how the harshest dose of reality so far

    Here's the deal. When the facts don't show that you're someone she's interested in romantically, then why hurt yourself by manufacturing that relationship that clearly doesn't exist?
    Well ... you're right. But - I still maintain that I knew enough going into all of this that everything was still a choice that I consciously made. I don't regret any of my decisions with regards to returning to the club to visit this particular dancer. (Like I said, it's entertainment, in the least - and I still had a good time, with the exception of my one attempt to meet OTC.) But that question of "is there more" is what was starting to gnaw at my brain, and I could sense that I was not far away from making decisions that I might well regret.

    Nevertheless, point taken ...

    Personally if I really like someone, it seems awkward to dance for them for money.
    That's an interesting point. Not to try to engineer more baseless "facts" into the picture, but at least from my point of view, I know that the last time I went in, I wasn't really interested in the dances - they just seemed manufactured, and largely unnecessary. I got the sense that there was some of that from her end, but ... who knows.

    Anyhow ... once again, thanks for reading my story and offering your comments. I'd love to hear more about how I am a dummy OK, not quite 'love' ... but, the truth, however hurtful, is always preferable, in my eyes...

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    There are no hard and fast rules pertaining to dancer dating patterns. the lines get blurred because she is being paid to pretend to like her customers, so this makes it complicated in trying to determine any real attraction while in the club.

    But usually dancers are not shy (notice I said usually) and will go out of their way to let you know they find you attractive. If she skipped your OTC meeting, didn't return your phone calls, and didn't call the number you offered her, my guess is you have been properly "sold" to and it is all just business.

    Of course, there are always people we'd rather do buisness with, and you might fall into the favorite customer category.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    I just cant wait around beating around the bush hoping someone will return my call or finally meet me at said spot. Well, I dont think anyone else should play this kind of game. This is all just too much. Maybe shes not that into you otc and more into you itc. If someone really wants to get to know you and is really into you then they will make an honest effort not a half assed one. If you want to spend time with her itc give her a call otherwise try to find someone else to spend time with otc, preferably not another dancer.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Okay, you had a good time, so nothing is really lost, either way, right? Simplest thing - make it clear to her that she doesn't HAVE to date you to retain you as a customer (if this is true - I disapprove of lying to dancers as well as customers) and ask her if she is interested. If she repeatedly blows you off - chances are good that she isn't interested.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Most dancers are way too much trouble to date, or to an extent be close friends with. Not all, but many. Be very cautious--Drama Ahead.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer
    Most dancers are way too much trouble to date, or to an extent be close friends with. Not all, but many. Be very cautious--Drama Ahead.
    Amen, although "stereotypes" of dancers are not alwyas true...It does seem like the overwhelming majority have constant DRAMA in their lives. Maybe the JOB causes it and maybe it's unrelated to their JOBS. It's even difficult being close friends with many of them although I have managed to maintain a few good "friendships". It's usually better to be an "outsider looking in" than an "insider looking out".

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    But usually dancers are not shy (notice I said usually) and will go out of their way to let you know they find you attractive. If she skipped your OTC meeting, didn't return your phone calls, and didn't call the number you offered her, my guess is you have been properly "sold" to and it is all just business.
    Well, in my experience (and I've frequented enough clubs over the past several years to have a relatively decent sample set, IMO), I've never really encountered a dancer who was so upfront about me actually being attractive. What was surprising is that this whole encounter was unsolicited from my end. That's what's been confusing to me... That being said, there's always great salespeople out there

    Okay, you had a good time, so nothing is really lost, either way, right? Simplest thing - make it clear to her that she doesn't HAVE to date you to retain you as a customer (if this is true - I disapprove of lying to dancers as well as customers) and ask her if she is interested. If she repeatedly blows you off - chances are good that she isn't interested.
    Absolutely nothing lost - except for a fair bit of my own time OTC, thinking myself into circles What you suggest is absolutely true - it's not like I'd honestly expect to all of a sudden fall head over heels in love with her or something - I just want to get an opportunity to know her OTC, and if something happens to develop out of that, then great! I suppose it might not be a bad idea to try and clarify that she doesn't have to date me in order to keep me as a customer. I think that is a pretty fair statement for me to make (and something I'd definitely hold up on my end...)

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer
    Most dancers are way too much trouble to date, or to an extent be close friends with. Not all, but many. Be very cautious--Drama Ahead.
    Yes yes yes ... We ALL have drama. And I've been in my fair share of "dramatic" relationships. That being said, I think this comment is at best a stereotype, and at worst, unfair to dancers. Not that one shouldn't be cautious - but here's the reality - just how well do you *really* know ANYONE when you first meet them? You don't get to discover the skeletons until a fair bit into the relationship, right? In my mind - why close a door that hasn't even been opened?

    My "goal" (if I've even had one - I'm not sure I have) here has only been to try to get to know more about someone whom I've met and feel some level of connection with. I'm neither expecting to get in her pants nor pop the question after the first date.

    I guess I just wanted to get a sense for whether or not it was worth the effort to continue to pursue - and while I certainly don't imagine the best advice in the world could tell me what exactly to do - I do like to remain informed as much as possible.

    That being said, though ... thanks for the warning

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    To make you feel better, I once had my phone's firm ware updated and was told I'd lose no contact information. Yeah, right. It was all gone. My best customer thought I was lying. It really does happen.


    Look like a woman
    Think like a man
    Act like a lady
    Work like a dog

    - My Great Grandmother Bessie's Recipe for Success

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Simplest thing - make it clear to her that she doesn't HAVE to date you to retain you as a customer (if this is true - I disapprove of lying to dancers as well as customers) and ask her if she is interested.

    i agree! if you show her that you're still intersted -- as customer -- then waters will clear out...

    I also agree that IF i am intersed in customer -- i wouldn't LD for him! At ALL!

    when i used to "table dance" it was different i remeber my ex husband seeing me in the club all the time --- eventually we got married. Those times are gone. lap dancing killed all the romaticism...
    mm
    Last edited by Jay Zeno; 08-15-2006 at 01:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer
    Most dancers are way too much trouble to date, or to an extent be close friends with. Not all, but many. Be very cautious--Drama Ahead.
    I can't even begin to tell you how, in my experience, this is total and complete crap. Nothing personal at all, mind you, just my own experience.

    You know the Pussycat Dolls song, "Don't Cha?"

    Dont cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me
    Dont cha wish your girlfriend was a freak like me
    Dont cha, dont cha
    Dont cha wish your girlfriend was raw like me
    Dont cha wish your girlfriend was fun like me
    Dont cha, dont cha


    This is the point where I lose all control and start screaming at the radio, "babydoll, you have no fucking idea. If she were any hotter or freakier, I'd be a Goddamn dead man."

    I'll say it again: The smart dancers in the industry are the thoroughbreds of the species. Since they make their own choices in men, either you appeal to them or you don't. Let's not dismiss dancers with kneejerk and dismissive appeals to drama (a practice often designed, I fear, to make guys feel a little better about themselves).

    There is plenty of drama ITC without it necessarily contaminating OTC.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    The stereotype is just a convenient way to describe something. Because something is stereotyped doesn't make it wrong. It just takes the average (stereotype) and applies it to everything. But not everyone is stupid enough to really think there is no variation to people.

    I know a few dancers who are responsible and have been good dates/friends. Of course I don't know all that many at that level.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    [QUOTE=Jenny]Okay, you had a good time, so nothing is really lost, either way, right? QUOTE]

    Except for the cash, itself.
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverback
    Except for the cash, itself.
    shhhh!

    Technically, I didn't *lose* the cash ... just ... uh ... donated it. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Meh... it's just money. Not like I'm not gonna be able to make rent because of it.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    LMAO thoroughbred strippers!!
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk
    LMAO thoroughbred strippers!!
    My legs arent quite that long LOL....
    Number of times Rickrolled on stage: 6
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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Stereotypes, huh? My favorite ladies are some of the most well-adjusted people you would ever meet. One of them is well qualified to be a therapist, infact.
    Really, you should want to leave the fun at the club, but.. I would love to be friends with a current dancer, though, I just enjoy the hell out of the sucky customer stories.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner
    I'll say it again: The smart dancers in the industry are the thoroughbreds of the species. Since they make their own choices in men, either you appeal to them or you don't. Let's not dismiss dancers with kneejerk and dismissive appeals to drama (a practice often designed, I fear, to make guys feel a little better about themselves).
    Typical of their classic calling card. "Don't call us, we'll call you."

    I don't see it as a great mystery. Yet it baffles the best of us. :/ I just feel honored and proud of myself when I see all my hard work pays off in the form of being a valuable catch to an a-quality freak.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: Some advice from the women, please, re: dating customers... [lengthy]

    Quote Originally Posted by itsthatguy
    Stereotypes, huh? My favorite ladies are some of the most well-adjusted people you would ever meet. One of them is well qualified to be a therapist, infact.
    Really, you should want to leave the fun at the club, but.. I would love to be friends with a current dancer, though, I just enjoy the hell out of the sucky customer stories.
    Yeah, I've met a few that seem well adjusted, not many, but a few, including some very desireable ones. (Including one that I still kick myself over.) A greater percentage of civvies are well-adjusted and sometimes desireable too, but often less so. Understandably, they are not so available either.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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