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Thread: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

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    Exclamation Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    There are many myths in this industry. But the ones that I hate the most and I feel are most dangerous to us as exotic dancers are myths about law enforcement. Here are a couple that drive me crazy:
    1) "The police have to state that they are police if you ask them." I heard this one recentlyfrom the mouth of a dancer at my club. She had come to this concusion after she "had seen it on television" She did not take into account that the so called reality TV show was filmed in another state, and there fore the laws would vary from the ones in Texas. Also I have never known this law to be true as most vice who come into the club are undercover. They can and will do what ever.

    2)"I don't let them touch me." Many also believe that by following often vague laws and regulations that they will never get into trouble with the law. Verses being aware of the political enviroment and its role in influencing the so called "moral need" to prosecute a victimless crime. Also with the state of the industry today in many cities it is difficult for dancer to make money while following the laws to the T. Also how often does management reinforce the awareness and following of the rules and regulations. From what I have seen they are to often concerned with their own money.
    What do you think about these myths?? Where do you think they started??? How do you think they affect the industry? What other myths have your heard??
    "Can we read it on the Smoking Gun? "

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    anything tax-related....

    "you only need to pay taxes if you're saving for a house"
    "You can say $10,000 is a gift"
    etc.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    I) myth # 1 I agree that is a myth. many times under cover cops get lap dances (of course during their investigation shift)
    I don't think they have to tell you that they are cops! it is BS!


    myth # 2:


    )"I don't let them touch me." Many also believe that by following often vague laws and regulations that they will never get into trouble with the law. Verses being aware of the political enviroment and its role in influencing the so called "moral need" to prosecute a victimless crime. Also with the state of the industry today in many cities it is difficult for dancer to make money while following the laws to the T. Also how often does management reinforce the awareness and following of the rules and regulations. From what I have seen they are to often concerned with their own money.
    QUOTE]
    this is so the club owner Washes their hands, so to speak, legally.
    Here in Toronto when i go to 'sign' in the club I sign this Huge 'statment" about touching, Physical conact with the customers...balh, blah blah...NOT ALOWED! not alowed not alwed....
    only to be surprise when I arrive in the VIP and see on what is really going on!

    and then you bump into a moron who requests EXTRAS as a MUST! if i explain him that it is not legal .. he will claim, that it is -- just to get his way.
    lap dancing is illegal at this point and you can get charged, at least in here in TO.
    mm

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    It's too bad that some girls buy into these myths. i work in TX too and have a few run ins w/ vice but ,uckily never got arrested, I've seen it happen though.

    The truth is in the clubs where I ave worked it has been impossible to follow all of the rules in the ordinances. You really are taking a gamble when you dance. My only saving grace has been club managers who look out for these people and try to at least warn us when they come into the club.

    I was told by someone that the TABC are in court right now in Austin, they are being sued by a club owner or something like that (maybe another myth?) They really should be regulaed by someone b/c I think they have a little too much power and aen't really accountable to anyone. I would much rather deal with regular cops than the TABC.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Another myth is that the club owners pay off the cops to not to get busted..
    I don't fall for that ether.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Oh! I forgot this myth. Just because you tip the bouncers does not mean they will tip you off if the cops come into the club.
    "Can we read it on the Smoking Gun? "

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    another myth ... you can't be busted for prostitution if the guy keeps his pants zipped.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Quote Originally Posted by stripperMBA
    Oh! I forgot this myth. Just because you tip the bouncers does not mean they will tip you off if the cops come into the club.
    if someone thought that the bouncers (or any club employee) was looking out for them, they deserve to do some time for being dumb

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    When the guys in blue (not TABC/vice) come in, the DJs do have a code for it, and the managers do come around and tell us to get up. Of course that isn't fail proof, but it is nice of them. I'm still very wary.

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Quote Originally Posted by stripperMBA
    ... Here are a couple that drive me crazy:
    1) "The police have to state that they are police if you ask them." I heard this one recentlyfrom the mouth of a dancer at my club. She had come to this concusion after she "had seen it on television" She did not take into account that the so called reality TV show was filmed in another state, and there fore the laws would vary from the ones in Texas. Also I have never known this law to be true as most vice who come into the club are undercover. They can and will do what ever.
    I have no idea what the other dancer saw (or, more likely, misperceived) but, as a matter of U.S. Constitutional law this is a long-settled issue - LE is perfectly free to lie about who they are, and that doesn't vary by State. Moreover, while it would be possible for a State to enact legislation requiring LE to answer truthfully if asked, I've never heard of any such requirement in any State and, given the obvious ramifications (i.e., would not only just about completely destroy LE's ability to perform undercover investigations but, in some areas like drugs, would also likely get many killed), can't imagine any State passing such law.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    another myth ... the clubowner said it's OK to do private dances this way, so therefore doing what the clubowner said it was OK to do must be legal !

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Funny one I ran into not long ago when the club ran out of locks to sell : "Oh don't worry, you don't need a lock. The cameras in here will watch your stuff"

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    ^^^^^^^^^

    Then when your s gets stolen they will claim there are no actual recordings made from the cameras in the dressing room as that is not legal.
    As for the Dj's saying there are a different number of stages or playing a certain song if the cops are in I would not trust that. Often they do that to late after dancers have already been spotted breaking rules. In my four years in the industry I have only met one person(dance manager) who would go around keeping dancers aware and was very good at spoting cops.
    "Can we read it on the Smoking Gun? "

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    The security guy outside radios the DJ when the cops pull in the parking lot. He also radios the manager who then walks around the club telling everyone to get up.

    The only thing that sucks is that the DJ never tells us when they leave.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    I thought that the had to tell you if they were cops if asked directly because otherwise, it is concidered entrapment.
    They can evade the question, but if asked directly, are you a cop, they must answer honestly.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    ^ What?! That makes positively no sense. "Hi, I'm an armed drug dealer! Are you a cop??!" "Yes, actually I am. You got me there, buddy!" *bang bang - dead cop*


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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    ^^ No, law enforcement may lie, but they cannot unreasonably pressure you to commit the crime. Here are some quick articles on the subject:

    http://www.snopes.com/risque/hookers/cop.htm

    http://www.slate.com/id/1003657/

    http://www.gottrouble.com/legal/crim...stitution.html

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_dancer
    I thought that the had to tell you if they were cops if asked directly because otherwise, it is concidered entrapment.
    They can evade the question, but if asked directly, are you a cop, they must answer honestly.
    No, entrapment is when they induce a person to commit a crime they would not have otherwise committed, i.e., the idea and/or 'criminal intent' did not originate in the mind of the defendant - it originated with the police, who then used artifice and deceipt to 'prompt' defendant to do it. There's a world of difference between that and lying to someone who has decided to engage in criminal acts on his own when he asks an the officer whether he/she is a cop and, upon being told "no," proceeds to commit a crime.

    As previously stated, this issue has long-since been decided and is now what's referred to as 'black letter law' - the following is from a recent U.S. S.Ct. case:

    "Indeed, it has long been acknowledged [385 U.S. 206, 209] by the decisions of this Court, see Grimm v. United States, 156 U.S. 604, 610 (1895), and Andrews v. United States, 162 U.S. 420, 423 (1896), 5 that, in the detection of many types of crime, the Government is entitled to use decoys and to conceal the identity of its agents."

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    Veteran Member Docido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Always remember it's going to be your word against his and the courts are more likely to side with law enforcement not a sex worker. It's not fair, but that's the way it is.
    Summer afternoon - Summer afternoon... the two most beautiful words in the English language. Henry James

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Uh, it's one of those 'you pay, you pay' routines. If you break the law, you run a chance of getting caught and paying a penalty. As to the word of cops against 'sex industry workers', remember that the vast majority of cops are pretty decent and honest guys who believe in what they do. More than a few 'sex industry workers' (but not all) are less than truthful about what they are into.

    Probably the worst thing dancers can do is walk up to a cop in a restaurant late at night and play the heavy in-the-club games they use to work customers. Either let them eat in peace (live and let live) or simply be polite and civil like you would to another dancer or club employee. Be honest in a conversation. You might find that you get treated a WHOLE lot better, and will tend to get the benefit of the doubt much more often. Weird/crazy girls ruin an image just as much as a jerk officer. Hey, most officers have had dancers be nice to them for no other reason than to get a ticket fixed...

    Officers cannot induce you to commit a crime, but they NEVER have to tell you who they are. Cops who go into clubs on occasion also hate to be noticed, and the whole "five-o in the house" thing can affect their attitudes in future encounters. Hey, you might also try to get other dancers to not sit at the IHOP and tell EVERYONE what every other dancer is into.

    Just an opinion...

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_dancer
    I thought that the had to tell you if they were cops if asked directly because otherwise, it is concidered entrapment.
    They can evade the question, but if asked directly, are you a cop, they must answer honestly.
    Yup for a fact cops can lie through their teeth.

    Uh, it's one of those 'you pay, you pay' routines. If you break the law, you run a chance of getting caught and paying a penalty. As to the word of cops against 'sex industry workers', remember that the vast majority of cops are pretty decent and honest guys who believe in what they do. More than a few 'sex industry workers' (but not all) are less than truthful about what they are into.
    Yup, and this can easily lead to 'bogus' busts ... because cops know that when it comes to a local courtroom with a good ol' boy judge and a jury made up of jealous housewives, retirees, bible thumpers, civil servants etc. that no matter what the cop's statement actually said vs what really took place, and no matter what the dancer actually said in her own defense, that the judge and jury is going to take every word of the cop's statement as gospel and assume every word of the dancer's testimony is the self serving lie of a lying, thieving, whoring, drug abusing 'stripper'.

    I'll cite an example ... in a city where 'extras' were pretty prevalent but busts were rare, one girl was earning a great deal of money from a customer one night who was actually an undercover cop. He asked for FS, she agreed, he paid the money, he then 'screwed her brains out', but then he busted her and took the money back as evidence. When it came time for the trial, the entire issue of the cop actually having sex with the dancer was written off as a 'figment of the dancer's self-serving imagination' ... with the cop's statement that he had simply offered her money for sex which she took as the only evidence 'believed' at the trial.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Ok, for once NOT getting involved in the law enforcement one. Melonie hit it when she said: cops can lie. If GnBeret is citing statute and case law, that's that.

    But up there Emily mentioned something about a $10,000 gift. That's not as odd as it sounds. The tax code DOES mention something about that, acutally. You can get $10,000 of gift (and yes, cash can be a gift) per year, per giver, per recipient and not report it as income.

    So I really could say, here Emily. It's ten grand. Enjoy. I just like you. And it would, in fact, be totally tax free.

    Now, here's the problem. It really does have to be a true gift...... and not a tip. Tips are taxable. If it's a tip.... and you don't pay taxes, income taxes, here comes the IRS and jail, and all sorts of unpleasantness.

    But if you can really prove it was, in fact, a gift, you can get 10K per year, per giver. Tax free! Really. THAT one's true.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    Quote Originally Posted by moonmind

    this is so the club owner Washes their hands, so to speak, legally.
    Here in Toronto when i go to 'sign' in the club I sign this Huge 'statment" about touching, Physical conact with the customers...balh, blah blah...NOT ALOWED! not alowed not alwed....
    only to be surprise when I arrive in the VIP and see on what is really going on!
    We have the same signs in the States. I noticed the bigger the font, the more a customer can expect.

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    I know that in Georgia, the they DO N0T HAVE TO TELL YOU DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, if you are to ask them if they are law inforcement, My Soon to be Hubbies whole family are retired... Police officers, and 1 of them recently from the narcotics unit.
    My 2 cents worth, look at your customers shoes!! If you have 3 or so men come in and sit at the stage , start tipping $5.00 on your first song ( DON'T BE OVER WHELMED WITH JOY) look at thier shoes. FIRST RULE OF THUMB.... IF THEY LOOK LIKE STANDARD ISSUE.... DON'T BEND OVER TO GET UR TIP!

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    Default Re: Stripper Myths About Law Enforcement!!

    It consistently amazes me how people replace actual study of the laws with wishful thinking about what the laws might be--as if police and the courts haven't encountered every possible rationale.

    A few more myths:
    1) According to the law, only intercourse, oral sex, or a handjob are considered a sex act. Wrong--this is wishful thinking.
    2) As long as I don't take cash, if I take stocks or clothing or call it a loan, it's can't be considered being paid, and I don't have to claim it on my taxes. Wrong again--if you did ANYTHING, whether you lapdanced or parked their car, in exchange for that, it's not a gift, it's considered remuneration, and the IRS wants to know.
    3) If I don't turn tricks, but I direct guys to girls who do, I an take money for it and I can't get into trouble. Wrong, this is called procuring, and it's a felony, whereas prostitution is only a misdemeanor.

    There are fine points and exceptions, but you get the idea. There are SO MANY myths like these!

    Wishful thinking, fantasy, bad information passed down over generations of dancers, out-of-date understanding of the laws--I just don't understand why people take someone else's word for something that could wreck their lives, when it's so easy to look up the laws themselves.
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