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Thread: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    On the bright side, this could really boost your bank account balance, and unless it runs off too many customers, could serve to weed out the riffraff

    Geez. And I thought guys like me were welcome . . .

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    One last thing: It is important to note that I am old and cynical. So add that grain of salt to anything I say. HAHA

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    One last thing: It is important to note that I am old and cynical. So add that grain of salt to anything I say. HAHA

    I tried to picture Bridgette as the only lady yelling at kids on her porch and it just couldn't happen.



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Telling 'em to get the @#$% ball off of her lawn?

    My guess is she is very sexy but with an edge. Pretty neat, actually.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I so AM that old lady!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    well, as another 'old lady', I'm also very concerned that 'raising the ante' to migrate from a non-private table dance to having any sort of private exchange with a dancer to the level of several hundred dollars is going to create incentive for two things to happen.

    In regard to the 'convention crowd', it's going to prompt these guys to seek variety by hitting more than one club and spending less money in each club (one hour stop, 2 beers, half a dozen table dances and then off to the next club) because they've nothing more to be gained by staying longer and 'cozying up' to a dancer unless they're prepared to drop several hundred dollars for VIP.

    In regard to the 'weekend regulars' or any serious conventioners, having to ante up several hundred dollars in order to get any 'private entertainment' is definitely going to raise customer expectations of the sort of 'private entertainment' that will actually be delivered in the VIP room (even if the dancers themselves don't see much of a cut from that several hundred dollars).

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    ^^That's what I was trying to get at.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I am in TOTAL agreement with Bridgette and Melonie.

    Cheetah is trying to follow the footsteps of Neiman Marcus. Neiman Marcus is the ONLY department store that ONLY accepts American Express and their own charge card, and does not take Master Card or Visa. To me that is ludicrous, as more people have M/C and Visa, but they want to remain exclusive and cater to the rich.

    The strip club business is in a state of decline EVERYWHERE, and basically what Cheetah owners are saying is if money is an object to a customer, he shouldn't be in their club.

    Most people do not have, or are not willing to spend large sums like that, even if they can afford to blow it, unless they find that special connection with a dancer.

    A strip club needs a variety of customers to stay busy. Many customers come in a club with enough money to buy maybe 5-6 $10 floor dances, tip a few bucks on stage, buy 2 drinks and pay their cover. These customers matter too. Ten guys who buy 2 $10 floor dances =$200, right? Some nights a dancer won't be able to sell any VIP's, and then they go home with nothing.

    The club would be better off just raising the floor dances to $15 or $20 rather than eliminate them altogether. And if they want more money, increasing the housefee $10 would be better. And not being able to ask for a dance is bullshit.

    Cheetah is trying to become too exclusive, and at some point it will cost them dancers, and the customer count will drop, as there are other clubs in the Metro Atlanta area probably positioning themselves right now to cater to the dancers and customers who no longer can afford to patronize or work there.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Maybe someone should present this thread to the Cheetah owners and GM.

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Melonie has definitely nailed it. The riff-raff like me (who most dancers find to be a profitable customer, but who don't spend in the thousands) don't want to be in a "VIP or nothing" atmosphere, and will move around.

    And making the dancers sell on a "VIP is different" basis raises two issues. First, a lot of customers won't believe it will be different, since it is not in so many clubs, even though here it actually may be. Second, that kind of a pitch could raise expectations from a different set of customers who are after extras.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    unfortunately, there is another side to this from the clubowners' point of view. One of the recurring threads in Dollar Dan is the fact that with rising ARM mortgage payments, rising credit card payments, rising costs from everything from insurance to fuel to food to taxes, that Joe Sixpack type customers (Casaubon's riff-raff) now have less and less money to spend on 'luxuries' like strip clubs with every passing month. Thus if a club can differentiate itself as being a super-upscale 'show club', in theory it can retain enough of the very best looking dancers and attract enough 'rich' customers (who can afford to spend hundreds or thousands), and it stands a pretty good chance of riding out the coming economic downturn. This is the same sort of logic that will allow Nieman-Marcus to continue to sell very high priced 'top quality' goods or Lexus continues to sell top quality cars to 'rich' customers, while Costco struggles to continue to sell average quality goods and Ford struggles to sell average quality cars to Joe Sixpacks. Who knows, this might turn out to be a smart move for club management and for those remaining 'top quality' dancers who appeal to and can regularly sell expensive VIP's to 'rich' guys. Unfortunately, it's likely to mean a trip to minimum wage land for dancers who can't.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I've worked in several industries which, when faced with an economic downturn, tried to focus more on the high-end exclusive sales and cut the less profitable but more numerous casual sales. In every case, the industry as a whole has suffered great damage, because while such a move will be more profitable for a short time, it ignores the fact that "casual" buyers includes "new" buyers.

    When you discourage new customers from coming in and trying out your product, you become more and more economically dependent on that exclusive group -- and that group isn't getting any bigger.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I think this is agreat idea! because it goes inot the other direction of being the entertainer, instead of the pleaser in the VIP LAP DANICNG.
    cl

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    I am in TOTAL agreement with Bridgette and Melonie.

    Cheetah is trying to follow the footsteps of Neiman Marcus. Neiman Marcus is the ONLY department store that ONLY accepts American Express and their own charge card, and does not take Master Card or Visa. To me that is ludicrous, as more people have M/C and Visa, but they want to remain exclusive and cater to the rich.

    The strip club business is in a state of decline EVERYWHERE, and basically what Cheetah owners are saying is if money is an object to a customer, he shouldn't be in their club.
    I am grateful for all this input.

    Tina, when the table side dances were banned, my first thought was that the club was weeding out customers. But the thing is WE DON'T NEED TO! The customers who come in have always been upper middle class.

    A customer who earns $100,000/year will budget $200-$400 for a strip club visit once a month. He tends to stay 2-3 hours, tips well ($10) on stage, and adds to the general vibe. He likes the club environment. He doesn't want the "privacy" and "intimacy" of the VIP. He likes 2-4 floor dances from the girls he likes the most. Take away his floor dances, and what is he most likely to do? Go somewhere else.

    A customer who earns $100,000/year from an honest job is a customer I want. He may not be extravagent, but he isn't cheap. Are we so stuck up that we will drive him off if his AMEX ain't black?

    I predict that the club will turn into a VIP only club with the main floor being a ghost town.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    The strip club business is in a state of decline EVERYWHERE, and basically what Cheetah owners are saying is if money is an object to a customer, he shouldn't be in their club.

    Most people do not have, or are not willing to spend large sums like that, even if they can afford to blow it, unless they find that special connection with a dancer.

    Ok, I think I'm starting to get this.

    I've read this thread hard because it seems that SCs are trying to mirror what is going on in their sister industry, and a place I spend all the free time I can: casinos.

    Never been in an SC. Love casinos. I came to this site cuz my fiancee is becoming a dancer and I would look at the riff raff at the tables and say, she's gonna dance for this? But I know now that a regular custy at a casino and a regular custy at an SC aren't the same animal. They are different, and want different things.

    Tina, up there, said that someone should tell the owner of Cheetahs this. Someone should. I think that people in the "Sin business" all think the same. Casinos market the best, but even they don't do very well. Vegas finally figured out that high end was the way to go (Circus circus? Come on, build the damn Bellagio and they will come). SCs are now trying to imitate that, but it isn't working. They think their custy is the same schmuck that'll drop ten grand he ain't got to buy into the world series of poker or to play blackjack like the dumbos I am forced to play with now, that is, the "big spender." But he isn't. Your custys are the same regulars they've always been, who want a connection with the dancer.

    Even the casinos think that they can put semi-SCs in their own buildings with women in (see tabu, tangerine). These will not distract a gambler, or a regular at a real SC. SC marketers are trying to imitate casinos, and vice versa. Won't work. Gamblers aren't SC regs, or vice versa. But I think that the owner of Cheetahs, at some level, thinks that he, too, can win the sorld series of poker.

    I no longer think my lady is going to dance for the dumbos at the blackjack tables. 'cept me.

    Does any of that make sense?

    Siber
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    Maybe I'll say.... Maybe"

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    Maybe someone should present this thread to the Cheetah owners and GM.
    Like the stripping industry is fair!



    I am just another expendible girl.

    I'm putting faith in the GM. He said he'll change it back to the floor dance option if the table top dances don't work.

    I'm going to see what happens in the next 2 months. Or I might switch to dayshift where customers have no problem with VIP prices.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I predict that the club will turn into a VIP only club with the main floor being a ghost town.
    actually the super-upscale VIP business model does make sense from the point of view of certain clubowners and their corporate accountants ! The financial side of this issue is being discussed in a Dollar Den thread ...



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    Last edited by Melonie; 08-31-2006 at 02:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    All this above is what I was saying earlier in the thread. The vast majority of strip club customers are NOT vip buyers, and to eliminate those regular guys, IMO, is a bad move. They still pay cover, buy drinks, tip a few bucks and buy a couple dances. Multiply that by however many of them show up in a night, and you've got a decent night. Take those away, and suddenly you have a MUCH smaller customer pool which creates desperation among the dancers and encourages predatory behaviour among the customers. Not a good combo.

    Also, NOT having an option besides VIP, IMO, eliminates some of the "specialness" of the vip. Then there's nothing to compare it to, differentiate from, which takes away some of its appeal. Sure the club itself may seem more exclusive, but that's not necessarily a good thing. I could be wrong, but I don't believe there are enough of those upper crust SC spenders to support a club like this, unless maybe it's a really tiny place.

    Ehh, then again, no one ever accused strip club management of being very smart

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I could be wrong, but I don't believe there are enough of those upper crust SC spenders to support a club like this, unless maybe it's a really tiny place.
    this is actually the crux of the matter ! IMHO Atlanta is a big enough market, with a big enough segment of convention and travelling business customers, that it could probably support one super-upscale show club a la Penthouse Executive Club's business model. An Upper crust club and the relatively small number of 'top shelf' dancers that are allowed to work in that club will undoubtedly be able to cash in big time from 'rich' customers. Unfortunately, only about 1 in 10 SC customers falls into the 'rich' category, meaning that if one club is able to set itself up as THE place for rich SC customers to go, such that other clubs that previously had 10% 'rich' customers and 90% penny-pinching customers now have 0% 'rich' customers and 100% penny-pinching customers, then the remaining 90% of strip clubs (and the 90% of dancers that work in them) aren't going to fare so well. This is fairly easy to understand because, like taxpayers, the 10% of 'rich' customers probably provided more than 50% of the total number of dollars spent in the club - meaning that if 10% of 'rich' customers leave for a super-upscale clubs that regular clubs could lose 1/2 of their earnings potential even though the customer head count would only drop 10%.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    I'd like to see The Cheetah remain the best of the best.

    Management says that the change was made to get MORE local business by making the club different from the rest. We'll see.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    ^^^ they're probably correct when speaking in terms of 'business' meaning total customer dollars spent, but probably not correct in terms of 'business' meaning total number of customers.

    This leaves two additional factors for a dancer in this club to deal with. #1 is their ability to sell VIP time to a few 'rich' guys instead of selling private dances to a lot of middle-class guys. #2 is the fact that the club will not be sharing all of the money spent by the customer on VIP time with the dancer, meaning that even if the club actually sees more 'income' from the transition that the dancers' won't necessarily see more 'income' too.

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Yes, it's definitely going to come down to who are the dancers that are really good at selling VIP's, those are the girls that are ultimately going to be making the money. But OTOH, that's how it was anyway, even when the dances were right next to the customer too. I've made most of my money from selling VIP's then I have from doing dances all night long. I've only had a couple of really good nights just doing dances. I have noticed that our club has had a lot of cheap people in there, they come in, sit at their table all night, watch the game, buy drinks and not get dances and not tip the girls on the stage, they'd maybe get 1-2 dances all night. Now, maybe this new rule is a way of getting rid of those type of customers. Those type of customers serve not purpose except take up chair space for someone else who will spend money on dancers. The type of customer that we all complain about in this forum that we say "Why are you at a strip club? Go to a regular club if you're going to watch the game, drink a couple drinks and not get dances or tip the girls" Those are the type of customers that take advantage of the dancers by watching for free. Those are the kind of guys that will watch all the other customers dances that they buy but won't buy any for themself. Maybe in the long run this will be a better rule and we're just suffering from it now being that it's August and it's back to school time. Maybe the drop in earnings has nothing to do with the new rule, maybe it's all because of the time of year it is! I guess time will tell!

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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by leogirl876
    I have noticed that our club has had a lot of cheap people in there, they come in, sit at their table all night, watch the game, buy drinks and not get dances and not tip the girls on the stage, they'd maybe get 1-2 dances all night. Now, maybe this new rule is a way of getting rid of those type of customers. Those type of customers serve not purpose except take up chair space for someone else who will spend money on dancers. The type of customer that we all complain about in this forum that we say "Why are you at a strip club? Go to a regular club if you're going to watch the game, drink a couple drinks and not get dances or tip the girls" Those are the type of customers that take advantage of the dancers by watching for free.
    You notice that aside from the 1-2 dances, these new rules don't affect them that much? I'm sure they'll still be there. Its the middle market folks who want middle level involvement (namely buy dances, but not VIPs), who are getting the shaft here.

    Granted, the market demographics aren't entirely the same, but we had a local club here which upscaled their establishment and upped the price of dance from $20 to $30 probably hoping that it would run off the riff-raff. The irony is that the overwhelming majority of customers I now see in the place are that low spender type of customer, (namely young under 25 guys who don't want any more involvement then watching the stage, or can't afford any more). Almost all of the dedicated lap dance customers came over to where I go, or took their business out of town.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    ^^And there's the problem. Those schmucks who never buy dances but love to sit and watch the eyecandy, will STILL show up with the new rules. Because they can STILL check out all the hot eyecandy, and now with the added benefit of not being bothered for dances but with girls instead spending time on them, trying to sell those VIPs.

    That, and what Melonie alluded to regarding dancers ultimately not making anymore money, but the CLUB making more. The club gets more money when girls sell VIPs. Granted, in the short term, some girls may make more, but there will be many who will make less - alot less - and it won't get better for them because there won't be enough of those high rollers to go around. The middle customers who used to buy several dances will simply go elsewhere, so the girls who supplemented their income with dances (or made most of their money this way) will suffer. Only those who are already good at selling VIPs (or who learn fast) will make money. We've already had the examples in this thread - the girl who said she already is good at selling VIPs has reported an increase in income, and the other has reported a decrease. Exactly what was predicted.

    But, to get back to Melonie's point - the club takes bigger cuts when the girls sell VIPs, so banning lapdances really means more money for the club. I agree with Melonie's prediction the club may very well raise house fees as well, to further draw a line between the girls who can sell those VIPs, and those who can't (and to increase the club's income of course). They can ban table dances, increase house fees, lose some low-selling girls and middle-spending customers in the process, and still make money. With the lapdance buyers gone, only the top girls will be able to make a living.

    So, ultimately, the top girls MAY make more money for a while, but in the long run I think they'll wind up making about the same profit as they did before the ban - due to increased club fees and cuts, and decreased customer counts (even those girls will lose a little when all the middle-spending customers are gone). I think the remaining girls will really lose out though, and wind up having to go to another club to continue making a living.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: Lap dances banned at my club -- good or bad?

    ^^^

    And if the customer count drops significantly, the club loses its stellar reputation and the big spenders might migrate to the new hot spot strip club.

    Yes, I do sell VIPs ... for now. The Cheetah is freaking FAMOUS. We have customers fly in to see what the hoopla is about. Before the ban, everyone was impressed. The vibe, the momentum, the activity, all fantastic. I'm worried about what they are going to think now. And what they are going to tell their friends.

    If the club's rep drops, so will my VIP sales.

    Remember when Scores NYC thought it was untouchable?

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