^ I think the egg timer is a good idea too, actually, but I think the masses would disagree.
^ I think the egg timer is a good idea too, actually, but I think the masses would disagree.
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Heh... I do this.Originally Posted by doc-catfish
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I don't agree with the egg timer idea because that calls attention to the fact that it's all about the money. Informality makes it seem less about the money. And I don't like starting mid-song. For me, it's an emotional connection to a song that I make. I can't mentally get into starting mid-song. I want to wait. In other words, if the guys are being anal about this, I can sooo relate.
-Ev





Bah. I don't like starting mid-song either. Maybe because I see it as bad form or annoying to custies, but probably more because I find it harder for me to keep track of time/dances if I don't start at the beginning. I run non-stop at work also, but I still take the time to start on a new song, because that works best for me.
So, I CAN understand why you boys prefer to go start to finish. But what I don't get, is why you're making such a big deal of it. Particularly if the girl is going mid to mid - seems fair enough to me. I would most certainly say something to the girl who pulls the half dance thing - not doing so only encourages her to keep doing it.
Also, to bitch about a girl starting a few seconds into the song is plain out petty, anal and ridiculous. Seriously. Does any guy REALLY expect to get every single milisecond, no matter what??? Talk about wanting to be convinced it's not all about the money - maybe yall should relax those sphincters about the money just a tad and that might make everyone feel a little better about it.
I can just see some guy, counting the 10 seconds during a song the girl wasn't dancing, with his ass clenched so tight you could use it as a drum and his eyes so red you'd think he was possessed, and him just STEAMING over the thoughts of what he's gonna say about her on the MB when he gets home![]()
Points taken. I doubt I'll personally change my style unless I find it costs me though.
What do you guys think of starting mid song and then going to the end of the next song? Does that weird you out or make you uncomfortable? Because there are some guys I just really really don't want to talk to, like, at all. The drunkies, or the ones that are asking questions that piss me off. In those situations, it makes way more sense for me to dance insead of talk, so that I stay in a good mood.
Girls, do you think this devalues the dance, and makes them less likely to repurchase?
(JZ- Should I start a new thread in hustle hut for this instead?)
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I'm not sure I've ever had a girl give me a half dance. Then again, it's not that big a deal for me. If she's a regular, we have an understanding and I just let her do her thing. If she's new, it's her opportunity to show me she's not trying to short me and to put forth a good faith effort. Girls that give me a list of rules before I even sit in the booth/couch/chair piss me off a lot more than if she starts thirty seconds into a song; "rule" girls get the axe at one dance and never have my money again.
And where are these 9-minute song clubs, B? Talk about blue light special...
Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.
William F. Buckley, Jr.





Well, the egg timer isn't exactly what I would call for either, but it does lead towards the right link of thinking in making the length of a private dance more uniform. This way the customer knows exactly what he'll be getting for his money, and the dancer will know that she'll be properly compensated for her time, even if the coked up DJ decides to play In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida or an all Led Zepplin set.Originally Posted by evan_essence
Because its supposed to be an experience for us, not an oil, lube, and filter change. Starting mid-song detracts from the romance of it by getting it off to a hurried and awkward start since most all of us are accustomed to starting at the beginning of a song. Even if the dancer goes the equivalant length of a full song, starting midway sends the message that "I'm starting my meter now, so I can get it over with sooner and onto the next sucker". We know you're not starting mid-song for our benefit, but for your benefit. That kills the romance of it, and when the romance ain't there, I feel like getting off the bus at that next stop, 3-4 minutes down the road.Originally Posted by Bridgette
If we're talking under 10 seconds, that's not going to bug me, but I'm going to certainly notice when its more than ten.Also, to bitch about a girl starting a few seconds into the song is plain out petty, anal and ridiculous. Seriously. Does any guy REALLY expect to get every single milisecond, no matter what???
... [snip] ...
I can just see some guy, counting the 10 seconds during a song the girl wasn't dancing, with his ass clenched so tight you could use it as a drum and his eyes so red you'd think he was possessed, and him just STEAMING over the thoughts of what he's gonna say about her on the MB when he gets home![]()
And while I wouldn't never be as anal to measure this while at the club, for discussion purposes, lets do the math. A 3:30 song is 210 seconds. After 21 seconds 1/10 of that song is over, so if a dancer doesn't start by this point, depending on the price of the dance, the customer is paying $1-3 for services not being rendered.
Now, am I going to make a stink over a measley $1-3? No. Doing so is just going to get the cortizone in my veins in an even bigger boil, and then I'm going to be too pissed to have fun with anyone. Its not so much about the money as it is about maintaining the principle of making the customer feel that its all about him. Cutting corners, even seemingly small ones, detracts from this.
Really if a dancer is smart, she'll know a good time to head to the lap dance area (if its away from the table) is around the mid-point of the song currently playing. This way, there is ample time to do all of the following:
- Make the walk to that area and find an available chair/couch etc.
- Take care of any pre-dance business she's required to such as checking in with the host/floater
- Removing the requisite apparel
- Getting the customer and herself positioned to her liking
- Collect money from the customer if prepayment is required and deposting cash whereever it is she does (purse/garter/etc.).
- Explaining any "terms of service" (yeah, that stuff) to the customer should she deem it neccesary, including the price per dance if it hasn't been brought up already.
By the time all this is done, it shouldn't be more than a minute (two max) before the next song begins. This remaining time should not be dead air. The dancer should immediately begin here to read her customer, and ask questions to find his triggers. This way she can get an idea of what is going to make him bequeath as much of his tiproll as possible to her.
Former SCJ now in rehab.
Doc - all due respect, it sounds like you are saying that the dancer should make the customer feel it is all about him by giving him free time. Like, yeah, of course, that is going to make the customer feel good - he's getting the freebie. Obviously the customer should feel it is all about him; but the reality is that it is a mutual exchange, the same as any other. It is not reasonable of me to expect a restaurant to give me free coffee because I am eating there just to make me feel like a valued customer. I actually like the egg timer idea. I think all parties should constantly be aware that it is all about the money.
Also, I think it depends on the place and the price. Like I can't imagine that guys are going to make a big deal out of missing 10 seconds of a $10 dance, particularly in a club in which they don't cut songs. Guys buy a lot of singles at that rate, and the songs tend to be over 4 minutes, and not many guys will say no at that price. It can be a serious drain on income to kill 3 minutes every customer. Imagine that every customer wants to wait 3 minutes when selling the dance only takes 5. You see? At my home club the dances are $20 with a cover and the DJ cuts at 3.5 minutes. There, I'll wait until the next song - it is more expensive when I have sold one chances are excellent that I've sold at least 3 and probably 5.
I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth





Why did this discussion turn to guys missing 10 seconds of a dance, I agree that's ridiculous to complain about, I think the point of the thread though was that some girls were (are) starting 1-2 minutes into a 3-4 minutes song (and not going into the next song) and still charging full price, that to me is unacceptable.
That's not the point of this thread! At all! No one condones that!I think the point of the thread though was that some girls were (are) starting 1-2 minutes into a 3-4 minutes song (and not going into the next song) and still charging full price, that to me is unacceptable.
And Doc, if it's done properly, it won't make you feel like 'it's all about the money'. It'll make you feel like she can't wait to show you her junk.
Feature costumes for sale!





Why? because strippers want to maximize their earnings and if they can maximize them by steamrolling a customer...they will. look, if you guys find it unacceptable. the sure-fire to put an end to it is to tell them to wait.Originally Posted by Richard_Head
Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat
Alan Marciano: Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".





Actually I think it was the point of the OP until it was shifted into how it was okay to go mid song to mid song and how it's okay to start 10 seconds into a songOriginally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
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Well actually I've run into several dancers over the years who have apparently condoned it.Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver





Oh don't worry, I learned that a long time ago, for the uninitiated though it came come as quite a shock.Originally Posted by mr_punk





Horsehockey. That 60 seconds of pre-dance time (and it could just as well be 20 seconds or 100 seconds) is merely an extension of what you were doing at the customer's table to get him to buy a dance in the first place. If what you do during that 60 seconds helps contribute to making multiple sales, it is time well invested. A relaxed customer who has an entertainer desiring his input is a hell of a lot more likely to open his wallet than a nervous one who has an entertainer exuding an attitude of "Can we start now? I'd like to get this over with."Originally Posted by Jenny
But again, a dancer's job is to suspend reality for the customer as long she possibly can. The longer she succeeds at this, the more money there will be in her garter once reality returns.Obviously the customer should feel it is all about him; but the reality is that it is a mutual exchange, the same as any other.
No, but if they wish to thow that little perk in on their own initative, would you at the least consider it a point in their favor to take your business there more often? Versus a place that wasn't offering free coffee. Businesses don't give perks like that because they feel their customers deserve them, they do it because they know those little personal touches can and often do positively impact their bottom line.It is not reasonable of me to expect a restaurant to give me free coffee because I am eating there just to make me feel like a valued customer.
My example, was merely an example, not a one size fits all panacea. All I really care about in the end, is when the song I am paying for starts playing, my entertainer better be ready to roll.Also, I think it depends on the place and the price. Like I can't imagine that guys are going to make a big deal out of missing 10 seconds of a $10 dance, particularly in a club in which they don't cut songs. Guys buy a lot of singles at that rate, ....yada yada yada....
Former SCJ now in rehab.
Yes, it was mentioned once, as one of the OP's original points. And I meant no one has specifically condoned it in this thread, not no one in the whole world condones it.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
That's not the point of this thread! At all!
Actually I think it was the point of the OP until it was shifted into how it was okay to go mid song to mid song and how it's okay to start 10 seconds into a song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
No one condones that!
Well actually I've run into several dancers over the years who have apparently condoned it.
Feature costumes for sale!





This topic is about three distinctively different things (see the OP). The first one is a mini-scam, the second and third are merely IMO not very sound business practices. But since they all are somewhat related to a more generalized complaint, I figured I'd bring them all up at once.Originally Posted by Richard_Head
Former SCJ now in rehab.
Scarlett, I think Jay would agree that if your intended audience is female, you will get a greater response if you post this same question somewhere in Pink. Having said that, your comment is interesting from a Blue perspective as well so we'll let it stand for whatever responses might be posted.Originally Posted by scarlett_vancouver
FBR
Last edited by FBR; 09-04-2006 at 04:18 PM.
Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.
Back to the OP's topic.
IMO, if we are not comfortably in Lap Central (Jay you should copywrite that expression) when the song starts then the meter is on hold until the beginning of the next song.
FBR
Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.
Just one final comment.
Miss D pretty much hangs at my table when I am at the club (its prearranged and a given that Im only there cause she is). Once in a great while she will take a guy back to the LD area if he has been particularly persistent and pesky stage side. She loves it when she can fanagle a half dance which means she will be back tableside that much sooner. Of course my ego tells me the reason she is so anxious to get back is that she cant stand the time away from mebut fiscal reality tells me she'd rather make 20 bucks for 1.5 minutes than 20 bucks for 3 minutes.
Just so you know, my Junkie conscience cries out for that PL but....LOL
FBR
Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.





oh, don't be so cynical, FBR. i'm sure if you left the table after she finishes up that dance. she would search frantically throughout the club looking for you and when she finds you in the men's crapper. she will give you a look of relief (like someone who found their lost wallet), hug you tightly and say,"oh FBR, i thought you left me".Originally Posted by FBR
Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat
Alan Marciano: Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".





sure, once a customer agrees to a dance. the dancer's work isn't done. quite the opposite, it's just beginning and everything that happens from that point is going to determine whether or not she's going to make $200 from one customer or grind it out and get it from nine other customers. anyway, whatever happens is entirely upon her shoulders.Originally Posted by doc-catfish
ROTFLMAO....funny line. frankly, i think the reason why some are weak at selling multiples is they spend so much time frantically searching and trying to get customers to agree. everything else becomes secondary to the instant gratification of making that one sale.Originally Posted by doc-catfish
Is it not a problem that the woman have a smaller brain than a man? The government scientist Dr. Yamuka has proved it is size of squirrel. - Borat
Alan Marciano: Oh, man...(to himself) Why did I get mixed up with that bitch?
Lt. Vincent Hanna: Cause she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it! - from the movie "Heat".





I'm not arguing it's probably best to start at the beginning of the song. Nuff said.
But after reading this thread, particularly the reasoning for why it is so important to you that we do this, I don't wanna see ANYmore crap from the blueballers that it ain't about the fantasy. Because what yall have said here, makes it oh so painfully clear that you DO want the fantasy. All 210 seconds of it![]()
LOL





I'm not sure it's about wanting the fantasy to last as much as it is about wanting to get full value for our $$$.Originally Posted by Bridgette





Full value of that fantasy you're paying for.
'Starting in the middle of the song ruins the romance' -- What romance? Only that fantasy one in the custies' heads.
'We wanna be convinced you're not just doing it for the money - even if only for a song' -- Yeah, we'll play along with that fantasy baby, as long as you keep paying.
'It's supposed to be an experience! Starting mid-song ruins the experience' -- Experience here is just another word for fantasy.
'Dances should be "song start to song end." Anything else screws up the natural balance of the strip club' -- Here, "natural balance of the strip club" is being used in place of "fantasty".
'A dance that ends mid-song is like a snap back to reality or someone waking me up while I'm in a deep sleep' -- Snap back to reality, meaning, "being jerked out of my fantasy".
Yall can argue til you're blue in the face (or blue in the balls), but you'll never ever convince this old veteran that the guys who buy dances aren't doing it for the fantasy above and beyond whatever physical stimulation they get out of it. Aside from what's said here that proves the point, my own very extensive experience tells me this is so. I mean, really now, it's the girls who are best at providing this fantasy who make the most money! Duh!




You NEVER saw said crap from THIS blueballer. I am all about the fantasy.Originally Posted by Bridgette
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-gen
"See, believe it or not (and I don't care whether you do), it's never been about the sex. I get sex at home, anytime, and we like it, and it's good for both of us. No, my stripclub experience has been about acceptance, and affirmation, and desirability...There have been some women who have a personality that just clicks with mine, and in the faux-sex atmosphere of the club, it's a mix that is completely seductive." - Jay Zeno
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