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Thread: captured polygamist

  1. #1
    Jay Zeno
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    Default captured polygamist

    No sympathy for - it's not nice to pimp out underage girls. But it got me to thinking.

    Why, in this era of recognizing committed partners, should adult polygamy be against the law? This isn't a stealth anti gay marriage question - I personally don't object to institutionalizing marriage for any adults regardless of sexual preference.

    The arguments for gay marriage - if people love each other, if they are committed to each other, if they wish to enjoy beneficiary status and survivorship benefits with those whom they love, why not let them? - are just as readily applied to polygamous relationships, are they not?

    So what are the valid underlying political, social, economic, or scientific principles that present a defensible objection to polygamy?



    (This is leading me to the conclusion that marriage as we've traditionally defined it is a defunct and possibly obsolete institution within the civil arena. The predominance of divorced partners, single parents, split families, shared families, childless by choice couples, and gay/lesbian relationships are the evidence.)

  2. #2
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    I agree. Major changes coming to marriage.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Paisley's Avatar
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    (This is leading me to the conclusion that marriage as we've traditionally defined it is a defunct and possibly obsolete institution within the civil arena. The predominance of divorced partners, single parents, split families, shared families, childless by choice couples, and gay/lesbian relationships are the evidence.)
    I totally agree Jay.

    Jay, I used to know a polygamist family very well. It was a husband and 2 wives. (And they were not Mormon, they were Pagan.) Anyway that are a very stable triplet. They have kids and when the kids were younger, they always had someone to watch them. Even now they always have someone to go to their piano recitals and sports games.

    I think polygamy makes a lot of sense, especially in a society where most often both parents need to work outside of the home just to make ends meet. It's hard for families to keep their mortgage and put money in for junior's college fund.
    (And this is speaking from the daughter of middle class/upper middle class parents and an only child whose parents thought that they had saved enough for college but ended up squandering it on custody battles and divorce so now I have to strip through school.) I could see triplets or even quadruplets forming in order to pool both financial and physical resources together.

    I also think that marriage licenses should be similar with a driver's license: it should be renewable. Also a marriage contrast would automatically be a prenump at the same time. You should be able to make a marriage contract that lasts for say 1, 5, or 10 years and if things are still working out, then cool, and you can renew your license for anoter 1, 5 or 10 years; but if things are not working out like you hoped, then you can just let your marriage contract expire and go your separate ways, as outlined within the pre agreed contract, without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on court cost and legal fees.

    Also I think that there should be separate child contracts apart from marriage contracts. Many married couples are choosing not to have children and many singles, gays and lesbians, or boyfriend/girlfriends are. I think having a separate child contract could give more security to a child and clearly outline all parties obligations. This contract would still be impossed no matter if the couple were not married to begin with or decided to separate.

    Then again, this would have to go to the rejection of thousands of years of Western culture defining of what marriage is, but our lives are changing and we havn't been following the definition of marriage for the past 40 years.
    Last edited by Paisley; 09-01-2006 at 08:49 AM.


    "That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth!" ~Jayne



  4. #4
    Featured Member xbloodydewdropx's Avatar
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    ^^ very interesting ideas, paisley (oh, and by the way, i love your Mal and Inara avatar!!!!). personally, i don't have any problem with polygamy in and of itself, only the people that use it as a religious excuse to make underage girls slaves to men, or certain men who collect wives like dolls and treat them like shit (and leave them poor because his resources are stretched too thin). consenting adults should be able to live in situations that suit them best. and the seperate contract or legalized custody arrangment per child that you suggested is a good idea, else things could get easily complicated. polyamory too has its benefits for certain people.

    i think this asshole who was picked up should pay for the crimes he committed in regards to the teenage girl.

    yes, traditional western society is changing, but i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
    "Seeing the landscape at this superficial level only captures its boring uniformity, not allowing you to immerse yourself in the spirit of the place; for that you must stop at least several days."

    ~Che Guevara, "The Motorcycle Diaries"

  5. #5
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    I agree generally with you, Paisley, about marriage as a contract. It's been my analysis for a long time. However, when I bring it up in polite society, I see that I'm in about a 4% minority, no matter how badly traditional marriage has treated the people I'm talking to, so I generally just don't bring it up.

    Change in traditions takes place at a glacial rate sometimes, especially in a democracy where even "liberals" balk at wholesale change. Generally, you need examples to show that something else works better, which is how no-fault divorce got more and more accepted. So it'll take a few examples of places where a nontraditional civil union actually works to society's advantage before the rest of society starts warming up to the idea.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Paisley's Avatar
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno
    I agree generally with you, Paisley, about marriage as a contract. It's been my analysis for a long time. However, when I bring it up in polite society, I see that I'm in about a 4% minority, no matter how badly traditional marriage has treated the people I'm talking to, so I generally just don't bring it up.

    Change in traditions takes place at a glacial rate sometimes, especially in a democracy where even "liberals" balk at wholesale change. Generally, you need examples to show that something else works better, which is how no-fault divorce got more and more accepted. So it'll take a few examples of places where a nontraditional civil union actually works to society's advantage before the rest of society starts warming up to the idea.
    True, it's not going to take place in our lifetimes or anytime in the next few centuries. People really do like to stick to tradition no matter how much it doesn't work.

    And I agree dewdrop that those guys who collect wives and marry children are really sick misogynist pedophile freaks who need to be locked away and have the key thrown away. I was watching Larry King and a woman who ran away from a polgamist family when she was forced to wed a 48 year old man at the age of 14. Very sad stuff


    "That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth!" ~Jayne



  7. #7
    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    Don't we need to distinguish between polygamy where all parties consent, and the cases one reads about from time to time where a guy has had two or even more families going at once and they don't know about each other?

  8. #8
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    Yeah, I thought my initial post was clear about consensual, committed polygamy. No sympathy whatsoever here for forcible and/or underage situations. Whack 'em good.

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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    You have some great ideas Paisley!
    Fools laugh at others. Wisdom laughs at itself...Osho

  10. #10
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: captured polygamist

    I agree Jay. I've been thinking about this a bit lately too, especially with the issue of gay marraige being in the news here alot lately. My boyfriend is polyamorus and bisexual and it struck me just how stupid our marraige laws are. (Actually I guess I also count as poly since Im seeing two people currently and thinking about a 3rd - I just dont particularly have any desire to get married again thats all.)
    I really cant see why there are laws against poly marraiges. Cases like the above annoy me for the obvious reasons, but so far as consenting adults go, geeezzz, I think people can make up their own minds!

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