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Thread: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

  1. #1
    Picaresque
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    Default confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    I've been at it for 2 months now...and I'm just now realizing exactly how much my confidence level/self-image on any given night matters. It's like customers can sense when I'm feeling fat and ugly, or stressed...and it's like they can tell when I'm inwardly questioning why on earth anyone would drop any real amount of money on me.

    That sense of "I'm not worth spending money on" is holding me back more than anything. I make okay money, but if I'm going to be there, I might as well work on this limiting attitude and make more, no?

    Especially with VIP rooms...I've had a few, but they've all either been with a) the occasional guy who's infatuated with me, or b) doing a room with another girl, and it's usually HER skills that seal the deal. I look at some girls in the club who are pulling in four or five rooms PER NIGHT, and I think "what the hell is she doing to get all that on a regular basis?"

    Plus, my club decides who gets to dance on the main stage based on their earnings, mostly. It sucks to be relegated to the back and side stages on Friday and Saturday nights while the girls who really have it going are getting hooked up on the main stage all night.

    Anyone else here been there and done that? how do you change your mindset? A lot of the time this mindset leads to me selling myself short--I see myself working harder during dances and putting out more (within the boundaries of what the club allows) than a lot of the other girls...while they're doing less and getting more $$ for it!

    I think some of it has to do with the fact that I'm still fairly new and don't have all the tricks/skills to upsell, to sell VIP rooms, to get more tips from dances, etc. But I suspect that a lot of it is my self-image; the tapes that play in my head at work most nights: "i'm chunky, my hair is hideous, I look awkward, i'm nothing special, why would anyone spend $150 for a room with me?"

    Thoughts, anyone? I guess in addition to asking what you do to sell VIP rooms, I'm also asking for advice on how to go from a mindset of "i'm nothing special" to "i'm worth all the $$ i can handle and then some" :p

  2. #2
    Featured Member Danni's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    First off, your right....at least part of your mindset has to do with your poor self image. So start there. Do some things that will make you feel better about yourself. You said you felt "chunky" so hit the gym and tone up a little. You'll feel better physically and mentally. If your unhappy with your hair, try a different cut/style/color. Just getting my color touched up makes me feel better, more "polished." Buy yourself a new outfit or two that you feel great in. If you don't like what your wearing, your not gonna feel like a million bucks!

    Most important.....SMILE!!! All the time. It's welcoming. It's friendly. Even if your shy, do not pout. It's probably one of the most important things you can do to attract othes. It also portrays a great personality and additude. It will also help you mentally. You'll feel better too.

    Hope that helped a little

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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Yes, I agree with smiling. Remember that someone is always watching you inside the club. Someone may want a dance with you and because you are not smiling it dampens his idea. Smile till it hurts.

    You are worth every dollar and a million more. Sometimes I like to think of myself as my favorite car (SL 32 Mercedes AMG) and think that everyone wants a test drive. I know it sounds dumb but it makes me feel special feeling exspensive. Thus helps with my mood.

    As for putting out more: Dont - Unless you are comfortable with it. All guys dont want high mileage. Connect first with them and they will like your dances with or without HM.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



  4. #4
    God/dess PleasureVictim's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    I am always smiling! I get complimented on my smile many times a night. But I know I need more self-confidence. I try to fake it...but it seems like that isn't working these days.

    Last friday (usually my best day)- I approached half the guys in the club and got turned down everytime. I couldn't even go up to the rest of them- I went home with my tail between my legs.
    I'm thinking to myself 'wow- the first night I approached so many guys I lost count...and I went home with the least bit of money ever. I was better off just standing by the bar- Usually a guy comes up and chats with me!'
    But I know that's not the way to earn good money. I go home with 200, other girls leave with 500 or 600. I've never even cracked 300 yet.

    Any book recommendations for increased confidence?

  5. #5
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Some self motivation tactics sound like they would be great for you. Tell yourself how beautiful and special you are. Don't focus too much on the money, because that often gives off a sense of desperation. When a customer turns down a dance, make sure you know that there is another guy you'll meet soon who will get dances with you. Ever one of us gets "no's". There is not a single dancer on this board who doesn't hear "no" . In fact, it's okay to be declined. You just can't be the victim by letting yourself feel worth less $$$ b/c someone doesn't want a dance from you. The more no's you get, the more yes's as well, and the better you'll become. This job is constantly a learning experience for those who make money.

    Also, you could take dancerwealths class, that has helped so many of us!

    Last wedns. I got 19 no's, in a row! I then took some time, and got back out there. The 1st custy I went up to made my night. I would have went home with under 100$ had I given up, but instead I kept trying and had a great night.

    The longer you do this, the better you'll get, and the more regs you'll have.

    Can you tip someone to put you on the better stages, this might be worth it, no only for tips, but for exposure.

    The girls who are3 making 5-6 are probably experienced/ or have been at the club a while, so don't judge your worth based on them.

    Good luck, and remember, it gets easier.

  6. #6
    Featured Member mina loy's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lola Rose

    Good luck, and remember, it gets easier.
    it DOES! it was hard at first and went home with about $100 a night on average my first month. now that amount has doubled and it's my second month.

  7. #7
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    I wouldn't even worry about the stage. It really has little to do with how much money you make. The bulk of your income will be from dances and VIPs.
    Learn some sales techniques- I also highly suggest the Dancer Wealth seminar. You can attend one in person, which is the best thing, or you can at least get the home study course. Even the newsletters are helpful for newbies.



    Aside from what the other ladies have said, I want to add that doing things for yourself outside of work really helps toward boosting your mood. I used to let every little life problem irritate me and send me to the dressing room to pout when I wasn't making money. I let things build upon themselves until I could no longer function. I have issues with depression and anxiety, so this job is extra hard for someone as anti-social as I am naturally.
    How did I get out of making an average of $100 a night? I really worked on my appearance, learned some valuable sales techniques and I PERSERVERED. I became pleasantly persistent, fun to be around and I worked extra hard at being friendly. Believe me, it was not easy. I still struggle with it.
    Take an inventory of all the things you are doing now, what your approaches are and calculate new sales pitches, time management schedules (if that helps) and always remember that you are WORTH EVERY PENNY, even if you don't provide high mileage. Especially if you don't.

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    Newbie candygurl's Avatar
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    Smiley Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    I've been dancing for about 9 months now. Last month was my best ever! In one night made $2900 after tipout. At first I made $130 a night, about 4 months in I realized that I may have one of the worst bodies in the club, but I am the most innovative at my sales approach. Seriously girls, I am 24 have 4 children, horrible stretchmarks, and saggy deflated boobs. Just get creative!!! Example... guy sitting at table drinking a beer, he claims that he would go for a dance but has no more money. I smile pick up his beer take a close look and set it back down..."what were u doing?" he asks. Oh, just memorizing the lot # off of your beer. If I catch you later with another one you really aren't broke, I'll be upset. Believe it or not it worked! He wanted to be polite, but didn't want to be labelled a liar! He also complimented me on the creativity and we went for a dance. I NEVER use "wanna dance." Capture their attention with your approach and you'll have them just about every time.

  9. #9
    mermaidnz
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    ^^^^ you made close to $3k after tip out?! where on earth do you work!?

  10. #10
    Senior Member ReleaseTheBats's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    You say you only sell VIP's when men are infactuated with you. So think back, what have you done to make these men infactuated with you (I'd say think back even further, before dancing. What was it that made any boy infactuated with you in the past)? Try to figure what has worked and repeat it. I find equal parts of sex, humor, and down to earth work to cast the spell. There are only a few ways to sell a VIP its either promising drugs, promising sex, or promising company (to infactuated men). I prefer the last, it starts getting easier once you catch on.

  11. #11
    Picaresque
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    ^^^ that makes perfect sense, releasethebats.

    i guess i already know that for me, the difference between a great night and a sucky night is confidence. And danni....yeah...losing weight and toning up would do WONDERS for the confidence thing. I'm not overweight, but i simply don't feel comfortable in my own skin being at this weight...that's the main thing, the tape that plays in my head all the time at work: "why would a guy want a dance, much less a room, from some dumpy fat chick like you?" so i end up asking hesitantly, which rarely gets me anywhere.

    the rooms I have gotten were all pretty random: the guy with a pirate fetish on the night that i happened to be wearing knee socks with little pirate flags on them...a few guys who wanted to take me upstairs because they liked Italian chicks...the Indian guys who were blowing money on everyone with pale skin and/or light hair...a few guys who wanted to use my satin sashes to tie me up... bless the fetish custys--they're so much more interesting than the usual "just grind me" ones. I actually have a lot of fun obliging fetishes.

    so i have no idea what makes a man want to get a room! like i said, when i have gotten rooms, it's not really because i tried for them...because i have no idea how to convince someone to spend that kind of $$. I love the car analogy though, tiger's milk

  12. #12
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Ha! This is kind of OT, but I used the car analogy once too. I was chatting with a nice English guy and when I popped the question, I asked if he wanted to take me for a test drive. He laughed, and asked what "make and model" I was.
    I said I could be likened to a Jaguar...then he exclaimed, "I have a Jaguar!" and I said "ME TOO!" (I do, but it's a 91 - haha). It was really cute and funny and it worked out because we had something in common.

  13. #13
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Asking for a dance isn't super effective!!! Try telling, giving them the opportunity

    Tell them they want a dance, or act like you know they want a dance. There is a thread on this, I'll try to find it.

    Say "I know you're ready for a dance, so let's let the good times roll" (for me, the cheesier the more effective) and stand up, take their hand, and such. Or, something like "you've been such a good boy, you deserve to see me naked/ play with me, have some fun" " I cant wait to get naked for you" "I love this song, and it sounds so much better when I dance to it" "this is a long song, let's take advantage of it".

    Also, super important, never diss yourself to a custy. There is a major difference between being sweet, coy, modest, etcetra, and downing yourself. If you don't want to say you're great, say "No one's ever been disappointed" or "I always exceed expectations"

    ps: here is that thread
    Last edited by Lola Rose; 09-14-2006 at 02:32 PM. Reason: adding a helpful thread

  14. #14
    Veteran Member badpixie's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    When I started dancing, I worked at small Portland clubs with no private dances or air dances that hardly anyone wanted to buy. I had no hustling skills, and I really had to work on it the last couple of months when I started working nights at a big club. I had always been a shy introvert and a geek growing up. When I needed to work up my nerves to go talk to someone and sell, I would pump up my confidence by reasoning with myself.. I pick a customer and mentally make a list of why I KNOW he wants the dance(s). Not why I think he wants them. It goes like this:

    "I know he wants a dance with me because:"
    - he tipped me well on stage (easiest way out)
    - he smiled at me/is smiling at me now
    - he keeps staring at me every time I go by
    - he watched my stage set from afar, even if he didn't tip
    - his friend is getting a dance/is about to get a dance/is talking to a girl and he will not want to feel left out
    - he is all alone with an expensive drink
    - his body language is open and he is all alone
    - I can speak a little of his language and he will love me for trying
    - he is a guy with his girlfriend, and he would love to see his girlfriend get a dance with another hot chick
    - I saw him tipping/watching a girl similar to my "type"
    - he's wearing a shirt featuring a band I like, or a cultural reference I get, and our common interest will impress him
    - I'm just hot!

    Make up your own reasons, and convince yourself that he wants to be with YOU because of them. It takes only a few seconds in your head to do this, and it works. Once you know why he wants the dance, you only have to make him know it! Don't ask him, don't use the word "dance" if you can help it (makes them think of spending money), just tell him why your "product" is the best and that he needs to come see, right now, because you're a popular girl and it's your job to visit everyone and "make a lot of guys very happy!"

    Never let him see that you are bothered by a "no" - smile and be gracious, and tell him you must move on. I have had customers change their minds and even come find me for dances later, because I was not pouty or a bitch about being rejected the first time.

    Also, the biggest mistake I made was in assuming that if a guy liked me, he would come to the rack and tip me well. Many, if not most, of the dance buyers at my club do not ever go to the rack, and many never tip the stage. I used to only approach guys that came to my stage or tipped it, but that severely limited my pool of potential buyers. Many guys are shy or embarrassed to go to the rack; many want to be approached. Your confidence and selling skills are far more important than just being on stage.

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    God/dess PleasureVictim's Avatar
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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Great post BadPixie! Everyone's tips are great! Thanks to you all.

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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    when I first started dancing my hustle sucked, my body wasnt what i wanted it to be my hair wasnt at the lenghth that i prefur I was 18, straight out of high school. I had no one to coach me at all on anything I went in to this alone by my self. I had no real club experiance not even dance club experiance. I would almost freeze up as soon as i walked out of the dressing room literly! I get real nervios real shy and go sit at the bar and watch ugly females totally unlike my self cash in! I was born a very shy not thinking i am pretty grlkind of person, I always thought no guy would like me and definetly not pay for shit from me. You see saying im pretty im this im that is one thing! you have to truly feel it in your heart. I will always and forever be a shy unconfident grl. I mean dont get me where ever im at guys are staring and blowing there horn, but i dunno i just still feel like this. SOOOOOOOOOOOO! I learned to have an alter egoe.
    Nice to meet you my name is sasha! Im the finest bitch up in this club, and my job is to make every man in here go home with me on there mind and cum back for more to morrow! my body is flawless n all these men love it. When i leave this dressing room im going to have a smile on my face at all times bacause ill be damed if i leave this bitch with nothing less then 500! So ima smile and seduce all this men so thy can give me ther money, I can do this because im fine and sexy and no other female in this club looks hotttter then sasha!

    Good luck babe

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    Default Re: confidence, upselling, and all that good stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by badpixie
    Also, the biggest mistake I made was in assuming that if a guy liked me, he would come to the rack and tip me well. Many, if not most, of the dance buyers at my club do not ever go to the rack, and many never tip the stage. I used to only approach guys that came to my stage or tipped it, but that severely limited my pool of potential buyers. Many guys are shy or embarrassed to go to the rack; many want to be approached. Your confidence and selling skills are far more important than just being on stage.
    my experience was similiar to badpixie, though i am still working on improving my selling techniques and of course having the guts to approach as many guys as i could possibly manage to. i tend to appear "serious" so the fool proof method for me is to smile and looking relaxed

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