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Thread: Judaism and finding oneself...

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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Judaism and finding oneself...

    I really have no particular faith or religious beliefs, however, I have recently been feeling 'drawn' to Judaism. This has been going on for about 2 years now. It's just been little things, like being touched by a convert's story or things like that.

    Are there any people here who can recommend any good books about Judaism that touched them, or convinced them to convert? I'd like to know your personal story of how you learned things and came to the conclusion that this was the path for you.

    Please don't send me to Google, Amazon or Wikipedia, I'd like personal ideas.

    There's a book I plan to pick up called Shiksa: The Gentile Woman in a Jewish World by Christine Benvenuto.


    I was raised Catholic, btw, but gave up on that in 8th grade (12 years ago). My family is still very Catholic. My aunt dated a Jewish man once and she said "happy passover" to our family during our Easter dinner and I recall some family members acting as if she had said the worst thing in the world! So, if you converted, did you have issues with your family or friends?






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  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    To Life! by Rabbi Harold Kushner. I can't recommend this book highly enough; it completely defines liberal Judaism (as opposed to Orthodox). I'd also recommend Choosing a Jewish Life, by Anita Diamant.

    I realized I was Jewish when I was 11... I never bought the Christian thing (my family is mostly Catholic too, with some Methodist, Episcopal, etc.) and I always assumed that made me an atheist. But I went to my best friend's bat mitzvah when I was 11, and it was this incredible sense of homecoming that came over me. I realized during the service that I was home. My mom wasn't thrilled to hear it and tried hard to force me into Catholicism, but I spent my teen years reading books on Judaism and learning Jewish practices. When I was 18 and on my own, I made an appointment with the rabbi and began studying to convert.

    The Talmud refers to Jews mistakenly born into gentile bodies. I believe I am one of those. There is also a story in the Talmud explaining that G-d took the Torah to all the peoples of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones that agreed to accept it. The story goes on to explain that there were minorities in those communities who did want the Torah, even though their communities declined, and those people's spiritual descendants are the converts.

    I can recommend a ton of books depending on your personal interests. Try attending a service or two (you might be lost in an Orthodox service, but most Conservative ones are easy to follow and a Reform service can be just like church). If you have questions, PM me.

    Yom Kippur begins this Sunday at sundown, and that's the holiest day of the year, so the rabbis are dealing with a lot right now. But later on next week or any time after that, I'm sure any rabbi would be happy to talk to you too.

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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Yekhefah's right. Yom Kippur is kind of keeping everyone busy right now, but I'd suggest going to a Sukkot service in a couple weeks. Not necessarily the morning service but dinner. It's really wonderful to eat dinner in a Sukkah!

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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Yekhefah, thank you very much for sharing this. I was looking forward to what you would have to say about it. I'm going to the bookstore tonight for a few other things, I'm going to check out these books you've mentioned and a few others I've heard about.

    I'm not saying any other belief is "wrong", but when I learn new things about Judaism as a whole, I often find myself thinking that this is the way to go, that they really have it right.

    I do feel like I'm missing out on something in life, and I'm not sure if it's religious beliefs or what it is, but I've been thnking about this more and more, so it's about time I get off my butt and do something about it and learn new things.






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    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    One of the great things you'll find out about Judaism is that unline some other religions, there is not a lot of pressure to convert to Judaism "or else". Once you find a Rabbi you like, they generally will be very happy to discuss with you anything you would like to know about the faith. A Rabbi is not really considered a person you use to communicate with G-d, rather he is there to be more a spiritual guide. Rabbi translated actually means "teacher." So find a synogogue that you like and be sure to ask a lot of questions and you'll find that people there will be very happy to answer then for you. Also find out if they have an "outreach" progam as most of them do for people who are interested in converting or for spouses of other Jews. My wife went through such a program before we got married as she's not Jewish and she had a wonderful experience learning about the faith.

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  6. #6
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    I read "1,001 Questions and Answers About Judaism" by David C. Gross (published in 1978 but available for order on the Internet.) It's an interesting way to learn a little about every aspect of Judaism & Israel.

    My favorite saying about Catholicism is that it's "Judaism For Pagans." I know a few people who wish to convert to Judaism, including my friend's brother, who works for a Jewish Mortuary- his experience with the Jewish community in San Francisco was life-changing. My aunt is a hardcore Catholic but she was supportive when she found out I wanted to convert....which was a total relief.

    Good luck and congratulations!

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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    One thing we are missing about being jewish, its not just a religion, it is a different culture as well.
    Jews tend to see life differently (better or worse) It is a lifestyle and a certain sensibilty that jews have always past down generations to generations.
    Glad to have you aboard if you are converting, just remember jews dont recruit!! Have fun with and remember jews dont drink alcohol while the sun is still up- Only the gentiles to that
    Take care

  8. #8
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Quote Originally Posted by smush33
    jews dont drink alcohol while the sun is still up
    Speak for yourself there!!

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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Speak for yourself there!!
    Yeah. My family always says Kiddush at lunch too!

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    It was meant as a joke.... I brake that rule too!!

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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Ugh. My bookstore didn't have "To Life", recommended by Yekhefah, or the "Shiksa" book I wanted to get, but I did pick up "Choosing a Jewish Life"

    I don't really have plans to speak to a Rabbi or go to a synogogue any time really soon, though. I will spend some time reading through these books between school reading and work.

    As DW said, I do feel comfortable with the fact that there definitely doesn't seem to be a lot of pressure to convert. There's never been a Jewish person I've known who has given a speech of why it's wrong to be Catholic/Buddhist/etc. But it seems to be that many different Christian religions are like freaking cults! My grandfather is Baptist/Born-Again and his church is the worst of anything I've seen, and it usually makes me uncomfortable to even discuss religious anything with him or around him.

    Thank you for your input, everyone. Even though I have no immediate plans, this will help me a lot. At the very least, it will open my mind and I will learn new things and be slightly more enlightened.


    PS We have a HUGE Jewish community just north of my area, in the north suburbs of Chicago. There are probably a TON of places for me to check out if/when I get to that point, so that's good too.






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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    It's a very rich culture, one which more cultures should learn from. The private nature of the traditions make it very attractive to lost souls.

    However, please be aware that it takes a lot of dedication to enjoy the riches of the culture and to become 'accepted' by those born into the fold. Enjoy your journey, but keep realistic expectations.


    "Life is not about the number of breaths you take.
    It's about those moments which leave you breathless."

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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Quote Originally Posted by azcustomer
    However, please be aware that it takes a lot of dedication to enjoy the riches of the culture and to become 'accepted' by those born into the fold. Enjoy your journey, but keep realistic expectations.

    It is exactly because of this that I want to take my time exploring and learning before asking questions to Rabbis and announcing any plans to convert. Out of respect, I would want to be 100% sure it is the path I want to take before I actually do anything.






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  14. #14
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    The Talmud says, "There are many paths to the top of the mountain." It also says it's better to be a righteous gentile than an errant Jew, and it's easier to be a righteous gentile. That's why we don't proselytize or say that other religions are wrong, because they're not. In fact, Jewish law says that the prospective convert should be rejected three times before being accepted for conversion. So if someone tries to put you off converting, hang in there... they could just be following Jewish law by making sure it's what you REALLY want to do.

    It's worth ordering To Life! off Amazon or some other site if you can't find it at your local bookstore. It really is the best book out there on this subject.

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    Member Zipporah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Hi, I am also very intrested in Judaism it began 2 years agoo on my daytime toerism job i worked with a lot of peolpe from Israel, almost the whole company is from Israel and they where telling me a lot about Judaism so i got intrested...

    Then 1 year agoo I started to fall in love with a Israeli guy who was my manager...So i began to be more intrested in their culture and religion, i thought he was divorced so one day i asked him and he said no no i am still married....from there on we started to become friends (nothing more!) but i still was in love with him (same old stripper pathetic story being in love with a married guy) ok thats off topic.

    I told him about dancing and lapdancing etc he was getting very horney of this kind of conversations that 1 day we went as far that i gave him a lapdance in his office it was not a nude one we where both still dressed but the lapdance i gave him i never ever gave somebody that kind of passion lapdance, he even came well whatever we both wanted to go further for a second round but we where almost cought so we stopped , the next day he came to me and ask me to come in the office so ok i thought maybe he wants to take it to the next level, but no he was telling me that we come from diffrent cultures and he can not do this out of his love for religion, and i asked him how does he feel about a women dancing ? would he ever divorce his wife for a dancer (his wife is opposite of me so she truelly hates sex)he said 'no' its to hard because his family would never accept this and he himself would never accept that i dance, i said ok then i will stop for you and he said no live your life its better for you, i could never accept the fact that you had this type of lifestyle it will always be in my head everytime i look at you, everytime we walk down the street i will keep on thinking: maybe all of these guys looking at you have got a lapdance from you....
    He said that even if i turn jew it will not change the fact that i dance....
    If i was divorced i would have ask you to be my girlfriend but marry you maybe maybe maybe....but for sure not divorce my wife for you...

    So ok now i am in my fase of getting over him its very hard because i never met a guy like this one....

    What my question is to all of ya : If he says that dancing is not alowed in judaism, how will i ever turn jew? because i am still intrested in judaism with or with out him, shall i tell the Rabbi that i am a dancer? or is this guy i am in love with just from a VERY small town in Israel and grew up very orthodox? Tell me more about being a good jew and still dancing.

    Thanks...
    Keep on dancing.....

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    God/dess Embyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Ok this is going to sound very odd- but I think the best book on Judaism itself is Leo Rosten's The Joy of Yiddish!

    My mom (Jewish from the Bronx) had the original 1968 version- and it gives some of the best insight into the joys, oys, why's and why not's of jewish culture and history, as well as some great yiddish and hebrew slang...
    it's more a cutural commentary than anything. hmmm what else... Oddly enough I think the books I got for my bat mitzvah were more cross-cultural and less "now that you're an Adult in our Jewish Community" than I expected...
    I'll call my parents and get back to this thread- (recommendations get read incestuously) right now I'm blanking.

  17. #17
    God/dess Chrissy68's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    whoa whoa whoa...
    let's back it up: there is NOwhere in the torah or any jewish document that states SPECIFICALLY dancing is not allowed. there are allusions to being conservative, and dressing in such a fashion, but again most definitely not in the torah itself. all of those "rules" come from rabbis in the old days like the rambam and rashi. the 613 laws of judaism (of which only orthodox+ obey ALL) don't say "thou shalt not get naked and give dances".

    The sect this manager of yours is a part of im going to guess is probably fairly traditional. there are 4 basic sects, the reconstructionist and reform ones are going to be the mroe open-minded ones. And of course, then there's the culturally jewish but religiously secular type of jew who doesn't practice anything which is what my bf is(who is israeli from very traditional background).
    My aunt is a rabbi, (reconstructionist) and i can consult her about most anything. i asked about my tattoo before i got it. (old wives tale! if it was true that jews couldnt tatt it up, the holocaust survivors woulda been screwed out of burial rights in a jewish cemetery too!)
    my parents sent me to a Jewish middle and high school (day school) from 6th-12th grades so i was forced to study my religion in detail. And now i do side work for a synagogue, designing and photographing for them. but obv im a dancer at night and the ONLY two times my religion has played a factor in anything is when i want to work on a holiday (and ill debate which is more important at that time, like if it's rosh hashana or passover, hell no, but if it's hanukkah ill be at the club since that's one of the least imprtant holidays) and secondly when an ortho man came in and wanted a dance. i told him, "If i giv eyou a LD than everything i was taught and believe in would go out the window. get out of this club!" and he did leave.

    (this comes from the ideology that if you are openly religious and you go into a non kosher restaurant, the other jews who see this act will think it's now kosher, that you could be deceiving people to facts, apply to SCs, it's the same thing. wear a kippah, dont go into a club imho!)

    id begin to ask yourself why you want to convert. not for a man, i hope, but for yourself.

    Love it!

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    Member Zipporah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Ok thanks for your reply.....No no no i want to convert for myself not for him, because like he said it himself there is no future with him he does not want to get a divorce now, and i thought that we where friends but after that LP in Amsterdam at the office and since i've been in London he never ever contacted me, i asked his uncle whats up with him and he said that he is just scared of this type of lifestyle and he see me as some kind of evil lady that wants to seduce and make him choose a lifestyle he will maybe regret......so he totally pushed me away because he knows that he feels for me but so yeah what can i do........

    What i heard about converting is that i have to turn ortohdox in order to be jew???

    Well I am going to buy some books what are written on these pages and open myself......

    X
    Keep on dancing.....

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    God/dess Chrissy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipporah
    What i heard about converting is that i have to turn ortohdox in order to be jew???
    someone informed you 100% wrong!!!! you can convert into reform or reconstructionist or even conservative judaism. no one can tell you how to practice. BUT if you turn ortho, dancing will have to stop. they wont accept that in their community. in fact, they probably wont accept you anyways because you already have BEEN a dancer. look into reconstructionism and reform.

    Love it!

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Aine's Avatar
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    There is a book called The Chosen by Chaim Potok. It's a novel based on the story of two boys growing up, their friendship and the relationships between them and their fathers, one of them being a Rabbi. Though it is a story (though based on real people and real events), it inadverntantly will teach you many things about the Jewish religion and the culture itself, the Torah, Jewish history and Jews as a people. The one boy is Orthodox and the other is Hasidic. I would highly recommend this one. It's one of those things that you read, but the inisght you gain from it makes you really think about things and can change your persepective on things, and it stays with you.

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    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    "choosing a jewish life" by anita diamant

    I've always loved Jews, and my boyfriend is Jewish. I call him my kosher sausage log. I'm thinking of converting someday, even if he and I don't work out (but I hope things DO work out!)

    I wouldn't think about converting until I'm done dancing if I were you. You have your whole life, do it right and honestly. I don't think it would be ok, and I wouldn't like to hide anything during a new beginning.

    another funny book is "boy vey: a shiksa' s guide to jewish men"

  22. #22
    God/dess Chrissy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings
    I wouldn't think about converting until I'm done dancing if I were you. You have your whole life, do it right and honestly. I don't think it would be ok, and I wouldn't like to hide anything during a new beginning.
    I don't think you need to hide anything. It's not lik eyou are a prostitute or drug dealer. it's a job, and i don't think it warrants hiding at all. maybe it's not something you bring up, but it's a JOB. If she sold mortgages instead than this comment wouldn't apply. get where i'm going with this one?

    And if you thnk this is something you need to hide from a Rabbi, someone you can trust, you fail to understand what the purpose of a Rabbi is, or maybe even what the purpose of a religion is.

    Love it!

  23. #23
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy68
    I don't think you need to hide anything. It's not lik eyou are a prostitute or drug dealer. it's a job, and i don't think it warrants hiding at all. maybe it's not something you bring up, but it's a JOB. If she sold mortgages instead than this comment wouldn't apply. get where i'm going with this one?

    And if you thnk this is something you need to hide from a Rabbi, someone you can trust, you fail to understand what the purpose of a Rabbi is, or maybe even what the purpose of a religion is.
    I wouldn't feel comfortable omitting something from my spiritual leader. When you convert you're supposed to be as honest about yourself as possible, right? Of course we don't see stripping as shady or wrong, but really most other people do.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Judaism and finding oneself...

    I don't think dancing has anything to do with conversion. While it is important to "be yourself" and make such a serious change with honesty, I don't think it is horribly necessary to disclose personal information like stripping. My rabbi doesn't know.

    It's not like you have to go confess your sins.

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