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Thread: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

  1. #1
    madmaxine
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    Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    Enjoy your expensive produce. Heck, you might consider buying organic since you have to pay so much now.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...9/30/IMMIG.TMP

    Enjoy your expensive produce. Heck, you might consider buying organic since you have to pay so much now.
    Interesting article...although personally, I'd just as soon the practice of attaching bills to other bills would be permanently abolished...too many games played with this in the past, present, and no doubt the future. I'd just as soon any bill be declared "null and void" if any attempt to place a "rider" on the original bill is made...all it is to me is just another form of lying by politicians. Of course, I mean for this to be applied to any bill, not just one about a guest worker program as applied to a fence bill.

    As to the article itself, I did find the following quote mildly disturbing - "Opponents view the AgJobs bill as amnesty for illegal immigrants, and point to the widespread fraud in a similar program in 1986 that provided legal status to more farmworkers than actually worked on farms." OTOH, it doesn't really delve into the actual numbers involved in this practice, so I don't really know if it was or wasn't much of a problem.

    I've also heard a radio interview with a guy who was representing grape/raisin growers in California, saying these farmers would have no choice but to move to Mexico in order to make a profit. If that's actually the case, that's fine with me, but I can't consume raisins due to medical reasons, and grapes aren't exactly on my list as a favorite fruit. And as to fruit, I actually prefer to go to those places where you pay to "pick your own," when I have enough time and can get to one.

    This is going to be a problem for a long time, and perhaps it's an intractable problem. But I also would like to know how many of these 76,000 farms are actually "family farms" vs. farms owned by corporate agribusiness. I'm not all that fond of subsidizing corporations, via California income and sales taxes. But even though I'm pretty opposed to illegal immigration, I'd probably support some kind of guest worker program solely for family farms! No corporate subsidies, period!

    And off-topic, but living in SoCal, one of my three major reasons for being as opposed as I am to illegal immigration is the practice of members of both the MS-13 and 18th St gangs(I don't know if these gangs, or others, are the primary problem in NoCal), not to mention other gangs, being deported and then repeatedly returning across the border after deportation. If the federal government would at least control this, then I'd be much more amenable to an amnesty for those who have nothing whatsoever to do with the gangs.

    And for all I know, maybe all of the legal, illegal, and whatever other types of immigration might exist are just a portion of some big "Karmic Balancing," but then, I have not read nearly enough about metaphysics to know how it might apply in this case.
    Last edited by PhaedrusZ; 09-30-2006 at 12:17 AM. Reason: typos

  3. #3
    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    however did we get our fruit and veggies picked before illegals...

    I'm sure this is just Feinstein grandstanding to her base.

    Let's just throw the border open, why even have borders or countries if we can't enforce our own laws....

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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    however did we get our fruit and veggies picked before illegals...
    Have you ever read The Grapes of Wrath?

    Weeeelll . . . we are used to paying artificially low prices for food due not only to cheap labor but also the use of fertilizer and automated equipment. I think that the percentage of the average family's budget spent on food declined from a quarter to ten percent since the Great Depression. In the U.S. we spend a smaller percentage of our income on food than in any other country. So higher food prices, whether a result of changes in labor or farming practices, are actually a return to something approximating the real cost of producing food.

  5. #5
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    ^ Susan W is on it here.

    "Agriculture work is the hardest, most backbreaking work in the United States today," Chambliss said. "As soon as we give illegal aliens in agriculture legal permanent residence status, they will no longer choose to work the fields, packing sheds, groves and processing facilities."
    All so damn true. It's the reason why illegals are moving into construction and trades.

    As far as Americans doing the work, Eiskamp said, "I've never had an American apply to work for me or express any interest in working in the jobs that I offer now."
    Why? Because you're not paying enough for any American to take that job. Simple as that. Which brings us back to Susan W's point about artificially low food prices.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    If enforcing our laws means paying more for food, we should either be willing to change our laws or pay more for food.

  7. #7
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Here Comes The Kiss-Off

    Speaking as a California resident, I might have more money for food if I wasn't paying over a third of my income in high taxes to provide free unlimited housing, healthcare, education, food, and other support for illegal aliens.

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