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Thread: help, should I have tipped? (long)

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    Default help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Hey, I just found this site and I find it very informative. I now have a better understanding for the way dancers perceive their job. I wish I found this site earlier. Anyways, I was hoping some dancers (and/or customers) could provide me with some suggestiions.

    Here is my situation. I'll try and be brief:

    So I go to a club that I have not been to for years. When I get there, an extremely attractive girl quickly catches my eye and when I see her dance on stage, i get hooked. After her stage show, she stops by and asks me for a dance and I immediately say yes. She dances for me (a VIP dance of $100+ which I pay for and of course tip) and after, she sits down and talks with me for a short time (about 10 minutes). I found her enchanting and very interesting. After the chat, I get another VIP and then leave feeling very happy. I actually found an ATF.

    So, I return to the club on two more occasions. Both times it is pretty much the same scenario of a couple of VIP's and some talking. After seeing her for the third time, I realize I am actually falling for her. Now, I have never fallen for a dancer before and I know the chances of that turning out well is not good. So I decide I better not see her anymore. Now I didn't just want to disappear without saying goodbye, so I purchase a small gift (not extravagant but kind of substantial to me) and I head to the club for one last time.

    When I get to the club, I see my ATF (damn she looked sooo good) and I give her the gift and tell her I won't be coming in any more. She appears understanding and is very appreciative of the gift. She then proceeds to sit down with me and talk.

    Now here's the deal, on this night I am there for about four hours and she spends most of that time with me. Now most of it was just sitting, talking, and me enjoying her company. But, during that time, I of course got my usual two VIP's and I did get a few couch dances also. And, since she is sitting with me, I did buy her drinks, but I did not spend much more on her then on my previous visits. I would have loved to get more dances from her, but I am not rich and cannot afford anywhere near the amount of money I see being spent by some of the customers on these threads.

    I should also add, that during this time, she did not work the floor like she normally would. She did leave to do her stage set (two of them while I was there) and she did have to go on stage during "all calls" but after each time, she came right back and sat with me. Now she did do a couple of dances while I was there, there was one guy sitting next to us who she did a couple of couch dances with and one guy I pointed out to her that she did a VIP with, but after each of these dances, she came back and sat with me.

    Anyhow, after being there for about four hours, I decide it is time for me to leave, I say goodbye, and I leave (happy with the time I spent with her and sad that I won't be going back).

    So here's my question, should I have tipped her for her time sitting with me also? Now, after reading some of the threads on here, I'm sure most dancers would say I should have tipped her and I now agree and I feel awful that I didn't (after all, she is my ATF). Also, how much should I have tipped her? Now I realize all dancers are different and all clubs are different but if you can give me an idea of an amount as in x number of dances or something I would really appreciate it. Lastly, is there any way I can give her a tip now without seeming like a stalker or something?

    Sorry if this seems choppy, but I tried to keep it brief. Thanks for any suggestions.

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    I think that the present was equivalent to a tip.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Dude. You bought her a present, 2 VIPs and some couch dances as a goodbye. That's more than enough. It's certainly more than most guys would've done - most would just not show up anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Well, what brings me to this is a simple question. Why is it you feel that what you did WASN'T enough?

    Any dancer on her would be happy to spend their time with you. What made you feel you should have given more?
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Yes, go back, tip her for her time, and apologize for being such a louse! While you're add it, see if she has any utility bills or doctor bills that need to be paid too?

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    ^^^OUCH! That'll leave a mark............

    Side note, I do like Verfolgung's comment, I never really thought of it that way......I would guess tipping is far more prefable than good will and a drink (something I will keep in mind)

    Learn something new every day........tks

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Plus, she's not your ATF anymore so it doesn't matter. Stop trying to get yourself into a situation where you would go back to make it up to her. If you want to cut ties, cut them already.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Wtih the VIPs. couch dances, drinks and a gift I think you are fine. If you had not done that and were only talking to her, than a tip would have been appropiate.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Anyone guy leaving a strip club with some notion that they owe a dancer something other than payment for her services rendered needs to re-evaluate things a bit. I mean how many people carry on about their barber or their bartender like they have something special going that they don't want to ruin? I'm sure it happens, but people generally don't start a thread on a MB about it.

    And for the last time, could we please stop bastardizing the term ATF? It means what it says, All Time Favorite, and nothing more. It does not in any way imply "girlfriend", or a relationship of any sort, other than a business one.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    okay, so she's his ATF-BWM (All Time Favorite- But Want More) then. Ya happy?

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Thanks to everyone for your input. I feel better now.

    To answer some of your questions.

    I guess I felt like I should have tipped her because when I read some of the threads, I got the impression that the dancers were all saying: this is a job, it is about making money, and time is money. And in my opinion, my ATF (or the dancer in question) went above and beyond by spending that much time with me. It was not something I asked for nor was it something I expected. I of course appreciated the time and was very happy about it. And my impression from the threads was that I should have shown her my apprecation (via tipping).

    As for why it matters. I guess it matters to me because I actually care about her opinion of me and I did not want to be remebered as someone who was rude or cheap.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    And for the last time, could we please stop bastardizing the term ATF? It means what it says, All Time Favorite, and nothing more. It does not in any way imply "girlfriend", or a relationship of any sort, other than a business one.
    And besides that, if I read the OP right, we're talking about three club visits followed by a good-bye visit and he's calling her his ATF? I certainly understand how easy it is to be quickly smitten by that one dancer that so quickly rises above all the others, and anyone can use the term however they want, but I tend to reserve the term ATF for a dancer/custy relationship that is measured more in years than a few club visits.

    As to the original question, have you considered the possibility that she willingly spent most of that last visit with you to pump you full of SS and convince you that she "really cares" about you, just to get you to come back and spend more on her, despite your intention to say goodbye? If she recognizes that you are a true SCJ, then she also realizes that you're going to be spending money on dances with someone; why shouldn't it be her?

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    AZDD

    I apologize if my use of ATF offended you or made the term seem less meaningful. But the fact is, I do consider her my ATF. The reason: Well, I have been going to SC's for several years and have been a patron of several clubs. And yes, in certain clubs I did establish myself as a regular customer of a few dancers (some for over two years). But in all previous cases, it was just that - a customer spending time with a dancer and getting dances - nothing more. And even though the dancers were good looking and I enjoyed talking to them, I never actually fell for any of those dancers. So, the fact that I actually started falling for this dancer, to me, sets her far above any of the others. Thus, she is my ATF.

    As to whether or not her time with me was SS or real, I don't think it really matters. I was asking about tipping the dancer for her time, not necessarily if the time was SS or real. IMHO the reasoning behind the time she spent with me did not really matter. I mean if it was real, then that would be great. But if it wasn't, I can't hold that against her. After all, isn't 99.999% of the time a dancer spends with a customer just SS - either to get them to purchase a dance (at that time or maybe on another visit) if they are a new customer or to get them to continue purchasing dances and become a regular if they are a returning customer. In the end SS or real, it is still time from a dancer and I enjoyed that time.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by j-
    As to whether or not her time with me was SS or real, I don't think it really matters. I was asking about tipping the dancer for her time, not necessarily if the time was SS or real. IMHO the reasoning behind the time she spent with me did not really matter. I mean if it was real, then that would be great. But if it wasn't, I can't hold that against her. After all, isn't 99.999% of the time a dancer spends with a customer just SS - either to get them to purchase a dance (at that time or maybe on another visit) if they are a new customer or to get them to continue purchasing dances and become a regular if they are a returning customer. In the end SS or real, it is still time from a dancer and I enjoyed that time.
    No joke, go you. I think it truly kicks ass if you're enjoying this for what it is and your question about tipping isn't an under-handed way of finding out whether or not she likes you "like that".

    HOWEVER, If you had a great time, and SS or Real treatment is irrelevant, Well then, asking whether or not you should have tipped, is also irrelevant. As you will be revisiting her again.

    Next time, may I make a suggestion?

    When you leave, if you're asking "Should I have tipped more?" Just tip more. I'm sure she wont mind.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    As to whether or not her time with me was SS or real, I don't think it really matters. I was asking about tipping the dancer for her time, not necessarily if the time was SS or real. IMHO the reasoning behind the time she spent with me did not really matter.
    Then why is any of this an issue?

    Tipping her more wouldn't put you any deeper into PLdom since you're already living there.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by j-
    I apologize if my use of ATF offended you or made the term seem less meaningful.
    No problem J, I'm not offended at all, I was just surprised at calling someone you had known for a short time an ATF. Your explanation makes perfect sense, and tells me that you have a very good sense of self-awareness about exactly what was going on with this dancer. Plenty of other PLs out there don't figure this out until they are way over the edge.

    Good luck leaving her behind, if that's what you really want to do......

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    Default Re: help, should I have tipped? (long)

    I think that your time and money spent on her was great J... Different customers are different, it all depends on the vibes I get from the customers I have danced for... if it's good conversation, if the guy is cool and polite and spends money I will always go back... I think that the gift was nice... but it's always dissappointing to see a guy that tells you he won't be coming in again... because obviously you wanted to ask her out in the end... and that's understandable.. But the money you gave her was good, if I hang out with somebody I tell them to pay me 50 dollars an hour if he asks... otherwise I get up after 10 minutes if there is nothing to talk about or no money spent (depending on if there are other people in the room).

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