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Thread: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

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    Veteran Member laplover69's Avatar
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    Default Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    Yet another terrible court decision... Sooner or later Lawrence vs. Texas will butt heads with some of these bonehead decisions. Missouri Supreme Court is also hearing appeals that would effectively put the clubs out of business in that entire STATE.
    http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll...610040362/1014

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    God/dess krchab99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    I live in ky now and even though I am a dancer I belive to some extent something needs to be done here. The clubs are realy bad alot of extras and nasty shit it very rampent and very out in the open. I do not belive the extreme measures they are taking are just and I belive strip clubs should be allowd to be open and make money but from what I have seen here and read in reviews there is a problem here and some action is nessacray if done correctly it would benfit the clubs not harm them.

    Please don't be mad at me for posting this I am pro strip club.

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    Member devilishvixen79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    ok, I'm gonna throw this out there, some might not agree, but this is merely my opinion. We live in a worl now where people run planes into buildings and when our children go to school we have to worry... And these folks are worried about the big bad strippers? Prostitution or not.... this ruling was unjust. I do not morally condone prostitution, But that is my moral opinion. There are people out therewho do sell and pay for sex acts, that is there moral opinion, and you simply cannot legislate morality. Prostitution is the one of the oldest professions, and in the places that it is legal, it is well controlled and much safer, girls are not getting killed on the streets by their pimps and angry customers, they are in safe houses where they conduct their business and move on. They are often practicing safer sex that way too. Anyway.... If everyone is so worried about the strip club industry, they need to start attacking the customers that support it, not the dancers and clubs that merely provide a service.

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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    So, if I read it right, the dancer can earn money off the stage for an hour after she dances. If that is so, then couldn't she just make sure that she is back up on the stage after an hour?
    I'm all for having strip clubs around, but I have to agree that sometimes when there are too many in one area and some 'extra' stuff is going on it does negatively affect that neighborhood. But all the blame does not belong on the SC.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    ^^^ the intent of the law is apparently to restrict interaction between 'performing' dancers (in various states of undress) and club patrons. By my read, once a girl finishes her stage performance (with a 5ft separation rule ... meaning she can't take stage tips directly), she must then WAIT one hour (in the dressing room, apparently ?) before being able to come out and 'socialize' with customers.

    As to Lawrence vs Texas i.e. the precedent that two consenting adults have the right to engage in consensual sex in a 'private' setting in whatever manner they choose, be careful what you wish for. If the very same legal precedent were applied to a consenting customer and a consenting dancer in an appropriately 'private' VIP room, it's arguable that engaging in sex acts of any sort would be completely legal. What's not legally clear is if the dancer could accept extra money in exchange for engaging in those sex acts. This could easily lead to a scenario where the club starts charging $300 / 30 minutes for use if its 'private' VIP room, with perhaps $150 kicked back to the dancer, but where girls who were willing to engage in sex acts in exchange for the $150 kickback (only) would sell all the VIP's and where girls who were not willing to engage in sex acts wouldn't be able to sell any VIP's to speak of (or at least no repeat VIP's).

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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    See then, apparently I did read it wrong.

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    God/dess Mare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    UH. Yeah. What you all said.

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    God/dess kryssy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    That is crazy! I feel bad for ya'll! I don't see how they expect the dancer to make money at all. That's government for ya though!

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    As strippers and strip club employees, we are the dog that gets kicked every election cycle to make the lawmakers look like they are doing their job.

    Is the American public actually that stupid as to not see through their rouse? I would bet that the majority of Americans couldn't care less about sexually oriented businesses if the media and the politicians didn't constantly stand up and scream about "Look at that horrible businesses going on over there!! We must protect our communtiy from this depravity!!"


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Veteran Member laplover69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    ^^^ the intent of the law is apparently to restrict interaction between 'performing' dancers (in various states of undress) and club patrons. By my read, once a girl finishes her stage performance (with a 5ft separation rule ... meaning she can't take stage tips directly), she must then WAIT one hour (in the dressing room, apparently ?) before being able to come out and 'socialize' with customers.

    As to Lawrence vs Texas i.e. the precedent that two consenting adults have the right to engage in consensual sex in a 'private' setting in whatever manner they choose, be careful what you wish for. If the very same legal precedent were applied to a consenting customer and a consenting dancer in an appropriately 'private' VIP room, it's arguable that engaging in sex acts of any sort would be completely legal. What's not legally clear is if the dancer could accept extra money in exchange for engaging in those sex acts. This could easily lead to a scenario where the club starts charging $300 / 30 minutes for use if its 'private' VIP room, with perhaps $150 kicked back to the dancer, but where girls who were willing to engage in sex acts in exchange for the $150 kickback (only) would sell all the VIP's and where girls who were not willing to engage in sex acts wouldn't be able to sell any VIP's to speak of (or at least no repeat VIP's).
    Agreed. I do highly suspect that the intent of laws like this are to put the clubs out of business... If the clubs remain open, just look for them to be fronts to arrange "private parties" OTC thus endangering the dancers safety more so than before.

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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris
    Is the American public actually that stupid as to not see through their rouse? I would bet that the majority of Americans couldn't care less about sexually oriented businesses if the media and the politicians didn't constantly stand up and scream about "Look at that horrible businesses going on over there!! We must protect our communtiy from this depravity!!"
    I think again, the biggest impediment to setting the record straight are the owners of most strip clubs. Many such people got into the business not because of any true belief in the First Amendment, but because these operations are largely a cash business. I truly think if given the choice, many of them would be more content to running underground prostitution than running a legit business strictly compliant with tax and labor laws. Sure the former is illegal, but there's way more money in it, and since its largely deals with cash, its hard to tell exactly how much.

    Of course, the same issue comes up here, that is pertient to most other SC laws. How exactly does a community go about enforcing those conditions? This is precisely why a lot of cities that have strict laws on the books often have the most extras-ridden strip clubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by laplover69
    If the clubs remain open, just look for them to be fronts to arrange "private parties" OTC thus endangering the dancers safety more so than before.
    That's exactly what's going to happen. I'm sure these guys did their homework on the Prohibition era quite well, and perhaps feel that the state regulating their "legal" business to death is for them perhaps the beginning of a golden age. Since its illegal to even sell just the tortilla now, they might as well offer the whole enchilada.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Bad Court decison in Kentucky

    ^^^ I would take issue with this (Outside The Club 'private shows'). The Kentucky ordinance, like the vast majority of other local anti-strip club ordinances, criminalizes the DANCER's conduct ... but doesn't really criminalize the club's conduct as long as there isn't a blatant club directive which requires dancers to break the law. As such, the club faces essentially zero risk in allowing dancers to break the contact laws inside the club on a regular basis, but stands to profit handsomely by doing so (via their 'cut' of private dance sales).

    From the dancers' standpoint, it doesn't take long for a few dancers to figure out that abiding by the letter of the law is a certain formula for financial difficulty. And of course, once a few dancers start providing technically illegal contact levels to customers inside the club, it becomes financially impossible for other dancers to not follow suit - with the clubowner's tacit approval as well ! This results in a business model where the nightly goings-on in the club are technically illegal, leading to a revolving door of busts, bail, plea bargains and back to work again.

    From the standpoint of a few mercenary dancers, they will undoubtedly figure out that the category of legal charges and size of fines for violations of the anti-strip club ordinance aren't really any different than the category of legal charges and size of fines for violating state prostitution laws. Thus from a purely pragmatic standpoint they expose themselves to zero additional legal risk but much higher earnings potential by offering 'extras' inside the club. Ironically, with the greatly increased earnings from providing 'extras', these dancers actually stand less legal risk ... because those earnings can be used to hire a good criminal attorney who stands a much better chance of 'beating the rap' than girls who are relying on the club's attorney to arrange plea bargains.

    Bottom line is that in virtually every case where anti-strip club ordinances have been enacted, most clubs wind up far 'dirtier' than before the ordinance was passed. Those few clubs who make it a point to operate legally within the ordinance (and force their dancers to work legally within the ordinance) generally wind up in bankruptcy - unless the city is large enough for the 'upscale' customer element to support an upscale 'show club' !

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