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Thread: Israel to upgrade their tanks

  1. #1
    Member GURU OF $IN's Avatar
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    Default Israel to upgrade their tanks

    For years the Merkava has been regarded as the world's most advanced and safest tank.

    But its static defensive systems proved vulnerable to advanced Russian-made anti-tank missiles employed by Hezbollah. During the war, 47 Merkava's were destroyed or damaged by anti-tank missiles, and another two were put out of service by roadside bombs. Thirty-three Israeli soldiers lost their lives in Merkavas.

    With the modern battlefield shifting from classic confrontations between two well-defined armies to urban warfare against concealed guerilla forces, defense officials have for years questioned the need for an expensive main battle tank program.

    The Merkava, it has been noted, was designed for traditional tank-on-tank battles, and is less effective against a highly mobile enemy that operates on foot out of civilian population centers.


    Merkava tank destroyed by Hizballah


    Kornet-E is a 3rd generation anti-armour missile system.

  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Now if only they would start using them.

    My proposal: For every Jew that dies, we level a city. They don't respect anything but violence, so let's start speaking their language. Maybe if we stop rewarding them for killing us, and instead make sure it hurts every time they do, we might actually accomplish something.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Now if only they would start using them.

    My proposal: For every Jew that dies, we level a city. They don't respect anything but violence, so let's start speaking their language. Maybe if we stop rewarding them for killing us, and instead make sure it hurts every time they do, we might actually accomplish something.

    As a christian who believe in Jesus Christ I dont believe that violence and killing innocent people will solve anything. I dont like to see an innocent jew or muslim die.

    anyway this thread is to discuss military and modern warefare. I was surprised to see the pic of this Merkava and didnt know the Kornet-E could do such a thing because the Merkava is one of the best tanks in the world.

  4. #4
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    If you don't believe that violence solves anything, then why discuss warfare? War involves violence, and innocent people die in war. It's a fact of life.

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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    because its a fact of life we discuss it,

    but we must love and forgive not hate and kill.

    one day you shall find the light

  6. #6
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Forgiveness is one thing. Encouraging more killing is entirely another. Sometimes a swift, violent response is the only way to stop murderers. And self-defense is not only justifiable, it is necessary.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    violence breeds violence, you cant go kick people out of their homes and kill their families and not expect them to hit back. You need to abandon the mentality of "we r the chosen ones" and treat others as humans and give them their basic human rights.

    peace

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    Senior Member Fan_Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Sometimes a swift, violent response is the only way to stop murderers.
    An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind- Ghandi

  9. #9
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Now if only they would start using them.

    My proposal: For every Jew that dies, we level a city. They don't respect anything but violence, so let's start speaking their language. Maybe if we stop rewarding them for killing us, and instead make sure it hurts every time they do, we might actually accomplish something.

    If we flattened a city for every Jew that died there would be no world left.
    I realise that you were refurring to the situation in the first post, but really with that reasoning, why dont we just blow up the whole world right now?!

  10. #10
    God/dess
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind- Ghandi
    Which is why in the original Hammurabi Code, it was an eye for the monetary value of an eye. Although lots of more serious crimes were punishable by death... you could always jump in the river though!

  11. #11
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    "If someone comes to kill you, kill him first."

  12. #12
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    ^^^ If we're going to have chaos, I prefur the 6 bullet plan!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Paisley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    I hate to say it but sometimes violence DOES work. Especially when you are simply trying to be defensive.

    I completely believe that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagisaki was a good idea. Yes it was sad that many people died but the Japanese had no problems butchering Americans, Chinese, Dutch, Indian, pretty much anyone who was not Japanese. They wanted world dominion and our nukes stopped them. Not to mention it saved more lives in the long run.

    As far as the "oh, the poor palestinians" give me a break. They have no organized peace movement going on. Many Palestians are living very comfortably as Israeli citizens. This was NOT an option for blacks during the 1950s. And you can't say that the Palestians are treated worse than blacks during the 1950s. Yet there was an overwhelming peace movement even while people were being lynched. Black Americans never blew themselves up once. And Ghandi had a peace movement while the Indians were being treated like crap with colonialism (mind you the main reason why they were liberated wasn't due to Ghandi's anti-violence rhetoric but the colonies were just getting to expensive to maintain so they were let go, but that's a whole other issue.)

    If we want to see where Arabs stand on human rights lets see how they are treating the Sudanese or the Kurds, or the 100,000 Indian workers that were recently imported to Saudi Arabia. Or let's look at the Armenian genocide, something that Turkey has never atoned for.

    The Palestians simply want to kill every single jew period. They don't have any plans for Israel. If all the Jews would leave Israel the Palestians would simply fight among themselves. Also if the Arab world really cared about the Palestians they would send them money and not just b*** about Jews. If Saudi Arabia would spend one half of one percent of there oil revenues they could probably build a golden giant mansion for each and every Palestian. Jordan and Lebanon are also rather rich Arab nations but you don't see them bending over backward to help the Palestian people, they are just hating Jews. Besides, any money that is donated to Palestians doesn't go the building of homes or schools, it goes to buying weapons.

    I am not saying that I necessary agree with everything the Isrealies have done, but to me it's clear on who to support on this issue. Guru of sin/fan dancer/tigerlilly person.


    "That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth!" ~Jayne



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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Hi Paisley,I replied to most of your accusations on the other thread.

    as for the palistinians, they do have organized peace movements just as some Israelis do.And also there are some joint movements between palestinians and Israelis.


    Many Palestians are living very comfortably as Israeli citizens. This was NOT an option for blacks during the 1950s. And you can't say that the Palestians are treated worse than blacks during the 1950s
    .
    the arabs that are Israeli citizens that ur talking about are mostly druze arabs, they also serve in the Israeli army and are loyal to the state of Israel. Druze are a minority religion living primarily in Israel,Lebanon,Syria and there are communities in North America and around the world.


    Yet there was an overwhelming peace movement even while people were being lynched. Black Americans never blew themselves up once. And Ghandi had a peace movement while the Indians were being treated like crap with colonialism (mind you the main reason why they were liberated wasn't due to Ghandi's anti-violence rhetoric but the colonies were just getting to expensive to maintain so they were let go, but that's a whole other issue.)
    As I mentioned previously, there are alot of arab/palestinian.Israeli peace movments.

    Bombing innocent civilians with an Israeli jet is the same as blowing yourself up and killing innocents. So dont give me that excuse that black never did blow people up.


    no doubt many arab countries are corrupt, there are alot of arab kings who invest with jews in Europe and around the world, and we know in many arab countries including the U.S allies, there is no democracy.But that doesnt deny the fact that Israel is a murderous state and is killing innocent palestinian civilians.

  15. #15
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Paisley, you rock! Thank you for an intelligent, coherent, logical post.

    Guru, what "peace movement" do the Arabs have? Fatah? Hezbollah? Islamic Jihad? I am friends with several Israelis who are card-carrying members of Shalom Akhshav (Peace Now), which advocates the same "lie down and give them everything they want" philosophy that you advocate. I have never, ever heard of a corresponding Arab organization.

    And there is absolutely no such thing as a "palestinian." That is a made-up word, invented by Yasser Arafat in the 1960's. Read up on your history.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    yekhefa , there are many palestinian peace organisations as well as arab ones. You can search on google for palestinian peace now, arabs for peace as well as many joint jewish muslim organisations, and israeli palestinian ones.

    and the good thing about these people is that they all agree that these israeli extremists must be stopped and that palestinian extremists must be stopped.

    you must agree too. Get out of the racist mentality and love thy neighbour.

  17. #17
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    This isn't about race or love, it's about self-defense. Giving up and rewarding terrorists hasn't helped; things have only gotten worse since Oslo. When you reward them for killing Jews, it just encourages them to kill more Jews. So the only thing left is to obliterate them. Make it too expensive to kill Jews, and maybe little kids will be able to enjoy a birthday party without being blown up.

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    Senior Member Fan_Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    So the only thing left is to obliterate them.
    There is a famous quote about warning about becoming monsters when fighting monsters. If you adopt the mindset and behavior of those you oppose then you become what you hate. Do you really want to be no better than those who you oppose?

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    Featured Member lunchbox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    And there is absolutely no such thing as a "palestinian." That is a made-up word, invented by Yasser Arafat in the 1960's. Read up on your history.
    Correct, the proper name by that standard would be a 'British Palestinian', since the land was called British Palestine, before Israel.

  20. #20
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Before 1948, they identified according to their tribe. Between 1948 and the 1960's, they were Jordanian.

    "Arab" seems to be the simplest and most correct nowadays.

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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Before 1948, they identified according to their tribe. Between 1948 and the 1960's, they were Jordanian.

    "Arab" seems to be the simplest and most correct nowadays.

    they have always been palestinian dear. However it is important to note that a majority of Jordanians come from palestinian background.

  22. #22
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by GURU OF $IN
    they have always been palestinian dear. However it is important to note that a majority of Jordanians come from palestinian background.

    Doesn't matter.

    Isreal was the dominant culture from 1550 BC to 539 (that is nearly one millenia aka 1,000 years of rule.)

    Then there was some time the land was under Alexander the Great - not to many generals up to par with that fella.

    Then back to Isreal 165 to 63 BC when the Romans conquered.

    It was the Romans who named Palestine and what lands it was composed of around 63 AC. If you look at the Roman map of Palestina (Palestine) you will understand why so many are of Jordon descent. It was common for Romans to mix tribes up in the same land so they would focus on each other and not on Rome.

    It was in 638 AC that a Caliphate controlled by Umar came to power and made the lands arabic and muslim.

    Some blah blah

    And finally in 1948 AC or so the lands became Israeli again.

    In effect - the Jews have always been palestinian and any jew born in that land is Israel-Palestinian.

    That is if you want Romans from 2,000 years ago to define the borders...

  23. #23
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah
    And that makes less sense than having the borders defined by Jews from 3,500 years ago because... Why?
    Please add context to your question - I am reading multiple meanings into it...

  24. #24
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah
    Just the converse here. I read almost no meaning into your post above that I lifted the Roman quote from, but the quote seemed to be saying names and boundaries defined by someone 2,000 years ago had no current meaning, so I wondered why that would be any less true of names and boundaries defined by someone else 3,500 years ago.
    You got the whole meaning of my post then.

    What it boils down to,

    - is a bunch of jews escaped the German kitchen,
    - went back to the lands of their fore-fathers and current kin
    - because in their time of need no one would help them (but a few heros saving a few here and there - even the US was blocking the refugees!)
    - found trouble with the locals (it's not like anti-semitism is new there)
    - decided to form their own government
    - of their own ways

    The jews have always been there.

    The arabs have always been there.

    They are both "palestinians" or have palestinian blood in them.

    It is merely a fight over who's rules everyone will live under.

  25. #25
    Member GURU OF $IN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Israel to upgrade their tanks

    The jews have always been there.

    The arabs have always been there.
    that means they both have the right to call that place home and live there. No one is superior to the other.

    There is a problem when Israelis say that there was never palestine and that

    palestinians never existed.

    The jews just escaped the German kitchen but why they are doing to the

    palestinians the same what the germans did to them.

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