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Thread: Gun Control

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    Default Gun Control

    I was listening to NPR yesterday evening, which of course, has just as much of a "slant" on this topic as does the NRA.

    The girls at the Amish school were mentioned a couple times during interviews with several people who support gun control.

    Personally, what I do not understand about this is the following - yes, you could outlaw gun ownership altogether. However, it's still possible to murder with a hammer or chainsaw purchased at a hardware store. Various forms of poison are available "over-the-counter" at any local pharmacy or supermarket. And a steak knife from a local department store is another possibility.

    Are we going to outlaw all these other things because they too can be used to murder? In the past, I've had one friend who enjoyed target shooting, but he was very, very cautious with the guns he owned and how he used them. So it's quite possible to own and use a gun in a responsible manner.

    But wiith a couple of exceptions, I'm not much of a fan of the "nanny state," no matter the context, including this context.

  2. #2
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    I agree wholeheartedly. Banning guns won't get rid of guns; it'll just make sure that only violent criminals have them, and that law-abiding citizens will be helpless to defend themselves and their families. It is a documented fact that cities with a lot of concealed-carry permits have much lower violent crime rates.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    the anti's need to look at what has happened & is happening in countries who have banned guns or have very strict gun control laws. violent crimes always goes up & . genocode has never occurred in a country where the citizens were armed.
    the solution to school shooting is simple, arm the teachers.israel armed theirs after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel's home guard. in the more than 25 years not a single child has been murdered in an Israeli school.

    i am a member of the nra but i only donate money to the JFPO(jews for the preservation of firearms ownership) & i'm not even jewish

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah
    ... if you conveniently fail to consider American Indians.
    the american indians were armed. we really didn't have an big advantage over them untill the henry rifle was developed & they had it almost as fast as we did.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    I support the 2nd Amendment except when it comes to military-style semiautomatic weapons like Uzis and AK-47's. There I draw the line.I don't believe those weapons are meant for anything than killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

    I think it was awful and catering to gun lobby groups (who line lots of Washington right-wingers pockets with cash) to let the ban on those guns expire. If memory serves me correct, just shy of 70% of Americans wanted the ban to be extended too.

    I alsways find it curious when neocons support the 2nd Amendment but are willing to give up their 4th Amendment rights. But to each his/her own.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Personally, what I do not understand about this is the following - yes, you could outlaw gun ownership altogether. However, it's still possible to murder with a hammer or chainsaw purchased at a hardware store. Various forms of poison are available "over-the-counter" at any local pharmacy or supermarket. And a steak knife from a local department store is another possibility.

    Are we going to outlaw all these other things because they too can be used to murder?
    Wonderful straw-man argument here.

    Equating the use of hand tools and kitchen implements to firearms is retarded and self-defeating for those of us that use guns. The reason whack jobs use firearms over knives is simple; they're more effective at killing people.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess Zabrina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    The more I distrust the government, especially the current administration, the more I support the citizens right to bear arms. Call it a V for Vendetta mentality. However, when it comes to such weapons we have to use reason. It is dangerous to allow violent criminals to own weapons, so I support legislation to keep guns out of thier hands. It is dangerous to put military style semi-automatic weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens. What on earth do they possible need those for? Perhaps if they have been specifically trained and licensed to use them, but certianly such weapons are not for your average Joe. It's just common sense.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I support the 2nd Amendment except when it comes to military-style semiautomatic weapons like Uzis and AK-47's. There I draw the line.I don't believe those weapons are meant for anything than killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

    I think it was awful and catering to gun lobby groups (who line lots of Washington right-wingers pockets with cash) to let the ban on those guns expire. If memory serves me correct, just shy of 70% of Americans wanted the ban to be extended too.

    I alsways find it curious when neocons support the 2nd Amendment but are willing to give up their 4th Amendment rights. But to each his/her own.
    you do not support the 2nd amendment!
    a shotgun will do as much or more damage in a crowd than a assault rifle. the ban was a joke. nothing was actually banned. ar-15's, ak's & uzi's were still legal to build & own. what the assault weapons ban did was limit the amount of things that could be on a semi-automatic rifle, such as pistol grips, bayonet lugs( drive by bayonetings must have out of control), grenade launchers(again drive by grenadings must have been a big problem), collapsable & folding stocks, detatchable hi cap mags & flash hiders. you could only have 2 of the above features on a postban rifle. the basic rifle was still availible & legal to own.
    the ban also had some very stupid things added such as assault pistols based on the ar-15 & ak-47 had to weigh under 50oz because they could be used as a club.
    next you'll tell me we shouldn't be allowed to own machine guns & silencers, most states it is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabrina
    The more I distrust the government, especially the current administration, the more I support the citizens right to bear arms. Call it a V for Vendetta mentality. However, when it comes to such weapons we have to use reason. It is dangerous to allow violent criminals to own weapons, so I support legislation to keep guns out of thier hands. It is dangerous to put military style semi-automatic weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens. What on earth do they possible need those for? Perhaps if they have been specifically trained and licensed to use them, but certianly such weapons are not for your average Joe. It's just common sense.
    laws are already on the books to keep violent criminals from owning weapons, they didn't become violent criminals by following the laws & being non-violent. you distrust this administation, but a dem. run administration doesn't think you should be able to own guns
    it is not dangerous to put military style weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens, anyone who has had exprience with firearms is perfectly capable of safely using assault style weapons by using common sense. the rifle in my sig is just as dangerous as any assault rifle, it has a much greater range & is alot more powerful. just ask any WWII veteran.
    Last edited by dippidy dave; 10-08-2006 at 05:51 PM.

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    Senior Member Fan_Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by dippidy dave
    you do not support the 2nd amendment!
    a shotgun will do as much or more damage in a crowd than a assault rifle. the ban was a joke. nothing was actually banned. ar-15's, ak's & uzi's were still legal to build & own. what the assault weapons ban did was limit the amount of things that could be on a semi-automatic rifle, such as pistol grips, bayonet lugs( drive by bayonetings must have out of control), grenade launchers(again drive by grenadings must have been a big problem), collapsable & folding stocks, detatchable hi cap mags & flash hiders. you could only have 2 of the above features on a postban rifle. the basic rifle was still availible & legal to own.
    the ban also had some very stupid things added such as assault pistols based on the ar-15 & ak-47 had to weigh under 50oz because they could be used as a club.
    next you'll tell me we shouldn't be allowed to own machine guns & silencers, most states it is allowed.
    Yes, I do. Just because we don't share the same opinion on limits regarding what type of guns should be legal or not does not mean I don't support the 2nd Amendment.

    Not supporting the 2nd Amendment means opposing 100% of gun ownership. I don't oppose 100% of personal firearms. I oppose military style ones being sold, owned and used by regular folks.

    What does a non military person need with an AK47 anyway? Sorry, I don't get it. But maybe that is because I don't get off on killing others or people being murdered.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    The gun control issue is ancient history.... I don't know of any prominent politician advocating for more gun control.... can you name one?

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    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    What does a non military person need with an AK47 anyway?
    It's a moot point; you already can't buy one. Already illegal in USA.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Good point, Casual. However, I still don't undersand why people like Dave think that banning the legal ownership of an AK47 is some kind of serious threat to the 2nd Amendment. It's not like there is a huge push to take away game hunting weapons or personal protection weapons like handguns.


    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot
    It's a moot point; you already can't buy one. Already illegal in USA.

    Not anymore, as far as I know anyway. GW Bush let the ban expire in 2004. Has something changed since then regarding the ban that I am not aware of ?

  14. #14
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabrina
    The more I distrust the government, especially the current administration, the more I support the citizens right to bear arms. Call it a V for Vendetta mentality. However, when it comes to such weapons we have to use reason. It is dangerous to allow violent criminals to own weapons, so I support legislation to keep guns out of thier hands. It is dangerous to put military style semi-automatic weapons in the hands of ordinary citizens. What on earth do they possible need those for? Perhaps if they have been specifically trained and licensed to use them, but certianly such weapons are not for your average Joe. It's just common sense.
    O.K. but in our current situation, anyone using a gun against the government would be a T e r ro is t. The old days of "by the people and for the people" may be a distant memory. Also, by definition, anyone using a gun against a person is a criminal. You can read my tag line to see what I think about this.

    BTW. Did anyone see "Thanks for Smoking"? Some great lines in there like,
    Do they blame GM when a drunk driver kills someone?
    With our product liability and need to go after deep pockets, we have set personal accountability aside.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    ^Sitri,
    Of course I am not advocating violence against the government. That's crazy talk. What I mean is, seeing how things are now, what if things get worse in 20, 50 or 100 years? If they are already spying on citizens what comes next? I think the thought of an unarmed population in that situation would be very scary. This is actually the reasoning behind the constitutional right in the first place. The founding fathers had it right to begin with, and I'm merely agreeing with them.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    I am for people control but thats another thread . The guns I own ( all of them ) are used for two purposes target shooting and protection thats it . Unfortunately in this society the only predators we face are of our own species .I know there are sharks bears etc but they can usually be avoided as for mankind ?

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    Veteran Member azcustomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    I actively promote beating the crap out of anyone who is not law enforcement caught carrying a weapon in public. Just last week, we found a pint sized loudmouth at the bar who was stupid enough to flash a gun handle in his belt-line. Too bad the poor guy had to go to the hospital that night. I wonder if he'll ever try going to the police to claim the gun we turned in the next morning. Probably not.


    "Life is not about the number of breaths you take.
    It's about those moments which leave you breathless."

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah
    ... if you conveniently fail to consider American Indians.

    This was more a matter of tactics and available technologies.

    The indians pretty much relied on horse back while the Union Army had train rail cars of supplies available to them.

    The indians also fought a more guerilla style while the Union Army had fortifications built in the European style learned from Romans (who had a clue or two about subjegating conquered lands.)

    There is more to war than simply who has the biggest bullet.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    Good point, Casual. However, I still don't undersand why people like Dave think that banning the legal ownership of an AK47 is some kind of serious threat to the 2nd Amendment. It's not like there is a huge push to take away game hunting weapons or personal protection weapons like handguns.

    That is like saying you don't understand why strip club regulation is any kind of attack on the first amendment - whether it be freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, etc. That is like saying strip clubs MUST be regulated and it would be BEST if they were regulated out of business for the safety of the surrounding community. After all - what use is there for a strip club?

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabrina
    ^Sitri,
    Of course I am not advocating violence against the government. That's crazy talk. What I mean is, seeing how things are now, what if things get worse in 20, 50 or 100 years? If they are already spying on citizens what comes next? I think the thought of an unarmed population in that situation would be very scary. This is actually the reasoning behind the constitutional right in the first place. The founding fathers had it right to begin with, and I'm merely agreeing with them.

    What comes next?



    Watch the trailers - you know there is a problem when BOTH republicans and democrats are nervous about what has become of the US government over the years.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I support the 2nd Amendment except when it comes to military-style semiautomatic weapons like Uzis and AK-47's. There I draw the line.I don't believe those weapons are meant for anything than killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

    That's right - it is part of the check and balances in the system.

    When you find out your speech is limited to "free speech zones" - when you find out your vote is ignored by the programming of the latest diebold voter machine - when you find out your voice isn't heard in the elite circles of the party system... the only vote you will have left is the lead ballot.

    Lets hope it never reaches that point.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gun Control

    ... if you conveniently fail to consider American Indians.
    Setting aside their own internal strife, typhoid and smallpox killed more native peoples than all the US Army campaigns combined.

    Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel lays this out quite clearly.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Just heard about a 13 year old who shot off a AK47 at his school today. Gee, I wonder where a 13 year old got an AK47? Probably Daddy's closet.

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    Just heard about a 13 year old who shot off a AK47 at his school today. Gee, I wonder where a 13 year old got an AK47? Probably Daddy's closet.

    I bet Daddy takes better care of the keys to the car than the keys to his trigger lock.

    So, if this kid killed someone with the family car he stole - should daddy be responsible for it?

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    Default Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    I bet Daddy takes better care of the keys to the car than the keys to his trigger lock.

    I bet your right. Question is what does any non active military person need with an AK47 to begin with? That is what i really want to know.

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