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Thread: The China Study (book)

  1. #1
    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default The China Study (book)

    http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Co...e=UTF8&s=books

    Has anyone read this?

    Wow. I think I might be going veggie.

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Really? No one?

    Ok, it's about how animal protein is basically one of the main causes of cancer (and other diseases), and provides evidence that cancer can be turned 'on' and 'off' through the addition and removal of animal protein in the diet.

    Further, it's done all proper-scientific-like, with primary sources and lots of experimental evidence.

    Really, read it! I don't push propaganda often!

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    the book was written by a vegan with an agenda. however, the best debunking i've seen is from a pro-meat-in the diet group, so there is that. but considering that the book relies on some pretty shaky ground to draw its conclusions, i think the bias is a tad heavier on the author's side than the debunkers. after all, humans are best designed for an omnivorous diet.

    and hey, while you're at it, check out the weston price site and the story of the guy who researched and lived with the eskimos who lived nearly entirely on meat, and lived quite a long, healthy life (minus deaths due to drowning and such).

    you can get all your nutrients from raw meat, including the vitamin c and such, which isn't true of any other 'extreme' diet.

    heck, even the chinese he claims are vegetarian and thus healthier for it are not primarily vegetarian, else there wouldn't be such a cultural fondness for eating things freshly killed.

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Hmm- interesting. I've definitely been convinced by the book, but I'm fully aware that I'm gullible, lol.

    So...where's this debunking? I'd like to read it.

    I'm also curious as to whether you feel his sources are not to be trusted? His studies are peer-reviewed, which is comforting from a science student's POV...but there's no way I can verify all his sources. Any indications of the ones that might be suspect?

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    ^ Well I guess so, judging by your signature links, lol

    I looked at that comment...I have a hard time taking things seriously when they're written in passion/anger, as that comment obviously was...though I will take a look at the articles he referenced. (I do have to point out though, that the majority of that poster's claims are unreferenced).

    Have either of you read the book? Just curious.

    I've never been one for a veggie diet, and actually was quite enamoured with the idea of the whole 'paleo diet' blood-type dealie for a long time...still am, as I like the idea intuitively, makes sense...but the evidence in this book seems to me to be better and more credible than what I've been presented in any paleo/blood-type book.

    If there is a reason that I should mistrust the author's research or sources, I'd really like to know...

    But yeah, to each his own. I think it's pretty interesting.

    PS: BR- do I know you? Do you dance in Vancouver?

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    i would have to hunt around for the debunking, it was quite thorough and dealt with the methodology, which was as shaky as any sociology study (and oh boy is sociology notorious as a field for shaky method!)

    i should have bookmarked it at the time, but i thought i would just find it again. i will google on the matter after work.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Is there a deleted post here?

    Anyway, I don't have any sources to debunk this book, but I do know that cancer is caused by a lot more than meat. And that the fresh meat the Eskimos ate was probably at lot better for you than the ridiculous load of ecoli infested, hormone injected, meat that's been pumped on steroids in the supermarket. I am sure the meat we get at the grocery store, unless wild and organic, can give you cancer.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    I was veggie for two years and got so incredibly anemic. I don't absorb iron very well from plant sources, and the pills are pain on the stomach. There must be some way though. Also, my b12 and hemoglobin hit the floor. I needed shots to get those up again. How do you get b12 without animal protein, I've always wondered? But I have many friends who are veggie/vegan with seemingly no problems (without pills).

    I found this link about supposed statistical flaws with the China Study. I haven't read the book and have only limited knowledge of statistics, but just for a different view (that isn't hysterical). http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/...-anat-8e.shtml
    Last edited by mollyzmoon; 10-10-2006 at 07:14 AM.

  9. #9
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    If you want to go off meat for a time, try reading Fast Food Nation. Sickening. Actually, I've never been back to a fast food burger place since reading that book a couple years ago. And while I've toyed with vegitarianism (see another post of mine), I love my meat!

    Actually, I'm thinking of inviting some friends over this Sat. for fresh lobster, beer, corn, etc. Yummm.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Too bad you are in Chicago, I would be there in a heartbeat. YUM!

  11. #11
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    mblank, you've got an open invitation. Remember, my parties are BYOL (Bring Your Own Lobster).

  12. #12
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    The main thing I noticed:

    Chinese vegetarians?!?!?!?!?


    Sounds pretty rare. If they based this on... say, Indian (or even Japanese, excluding fish) vegetarians, I might not have laughed so much. Pork, beef, chicken, dogs, frogs, turtles, ducks, snakes, etc etc are all chinese delights.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    ^ Well...the study actually compared Chinese people in poor areas who rarely ate meat to 'city' Chinese who ate lots of it. It's pretty common that poor people in most countries don't get to eat much meat.

    Thanks for the link Molly.
    2 things:

    1, it refers to several journal articles written by the author of the book, not the book itself.

    2, "Collaborative analysis of 5 large studies finds no difference in death rates from cancer, vegetarian vs. non-vegetarian". The author doesn't push a veggie diet so much as he pushes "whole foods and vegetarian protein". I think the diet he suggest is probably a lot healthier than most veggie diets (which may not exclude white flour & etc), and in fact does allow for some (<5%) animal protein.

    A question I have for the meat-lovers:

    Ok, we all know that many methods of cooking meat causes carcinogenic substances to be formed in (on) the meat, right?
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...ocyclic-amines

    I notice that raw meat is referred to, I can dig that. But, are you serious? Beyond sushi, do you literally eat raw meat??? I mean, you can't eat your chicken that way.

    Curious.

    finally, mblank: yes, Beauty's Release deleted her post. I don't know why. It was pretty benign.

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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    I've not heard of this book, but it does look like a vegan with an agenda. BUT, OTOH, pretty much every book has an agenda, right? To get you to buy into whatever the bvook is about. It's up to you to read all aspects of a subject and come to your own conclusion.

    I've read bits and pieces of Fast Food Nation, I just need to find time to read the whole thing, b/c it's really interesting. I eat far less fast food now, and I'm a lot more selective that before. There's a couple other books I've been wanting to pick up to learn a bit more about food and the food industry in general:

    Food Politics - Marion Nestle
    http://www.amazon.com/Food-Politics-...589461?ie=UTF8

    Damn It - I can't find the other ones and I have to get to school. One is about chicken and other poultry and another is about the beef industry. The reason I haven't bought any of them yet is b/c they don't look like particularly exciting reads, but they look interesting to me ....if that makes sense.






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    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    People eat raw meat all the time. There's steak tartare, which is usually seared very quickly to kill any bacteria on the suface. Since it is a slab of steak, the inside hasn't been in contact with any possibly contaminated surfaces, to you just need a moment to kill any bacteria.

    There's also tuna tartare, which is completely different than sushi, which is usually prepared like the steak tartare.

    And someone help me here .....what's it called when you 'cook' seafood with lime juice?? It's on the tip of my tongue....seviche! That's technically raw too and not considered sushi.

    As for me, I like sushi, but none of the above!






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  16. #16
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Sushi. Yumm. Hello_K, have you ever been to Japanais? I've only been for drinks, and that's going back a year. Now that the "buzz" is off that hot spot, I might try and go back for a meal.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Japonais is amazingly good. To me, it's well worth the money. The ambiance is great. I wanted to go downstairs to the bar area, but I just had drinks at my table. OMG - love it! You walk in there and you tihnk they're gonna be all snooty, but the entire staff is so friendly and VERY knowledgeable about everything on the menu. Their food was really good, too.

    Mmmmm...I will have to go back soon.






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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Actually, Chinese were prodminantly vegetarians until the last fifty years, or pretty damn close. People assume chinese were heavy meat-eaters out of ignorance for Chinese history. China has been predominantly poor and rural except for the wealthy for a long, log time. That meant that meat, when available- was a treat and not an abundant source of food. What people eat in Chinese restaurants reflect an Americanized version of what the wealthy ate- not what the rest of the population ate. What you find in ethnic restaurants are not representative of a lot of ethnic foods- it's only a portion that is considered to be accesible to the non-ethnic population.

    My friend is a vegan and triathelete- she's as healthy as a woman can be and has the blood and medical tests to prove it. Most people don't get enough fresh veggies and fruits. Some people are suited to a more vegetarian diet, others may not be. I basically work to get 6-8 servings of veggies every day. Rather than *try* to be vegetarian, start including veggie meals and increase your intake of vegetables. Unless you're eating organic, free-range meats, you're pumping a shitload of chemicals and drugs into your system by eating meat. I do eat meat, but rarely- and I go for quality, not quantity. I'd rather cook up a really good steak once every 2 weeks than have shit meat every day. I was vegetarian for 5 years- I did well on it, but I got incredibly busy. I am still predominantly vegetarian, and when I do eat a lot of meat (more than once every 2 weeks), I feel sluggish. For me, having a diet full of whole grains, fresh veggies and fruit keeps me feeling a lot better. One I start eating meat and lots of processed foods, I feel like crap.

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    Default Re: The China Study (book)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor
    If you want to go off meat for a time, try reading Fast Food Nation. Sickening. Actually, I've never been back to a fast food burger place since reading that book a couple years ago. And while I've toyed with vegitarianism (see another post of mine), I love my meat!

    Actually, I'm thinking of inviting some friends over this Sat. for fresh lobster, beer, corn, etc. Yummm.
    AH! You beat me to it. This book is a must-read for anyone interested in how food affects your health.

    Sure it's important to understand proportion of meats vs. veggies that you should be eating. That's a big deal, by all means diet your hearts out. However, if you don't pay attention to where your food is coming from, you're only getting half the story.

    Ever wonder WHY we can't eat bagged spinach? Where did mad cow disease come from? How do politics, and have politics affected our food supply? This is very interesting, albeit sickening stuff.

    The sad thing is, at the rate we're going, vegetarians are going to worry just as much as meat eaters, and in the end we'll be lucky to have any food that's safe. Well, poor people will worry first because they won't have as much access to more expensive organic and free-range products. We see that happening already.

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