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Thread: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

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    Default One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Some Muslim cabbies in Minneapolis are refusing service to anyone they know is carrying alcohol. More interesting is when blind people are sometimes refused service because their guide dogs are "unclean" animals. Interestingly enough, in the United States, if a blind person with a guide dog was refused such service, a lawsuit could be filed under the Americans with Disabilities Act. The incident I read about re: a guide dog was somewhere in th U.K. And there is more to read about the incident in Minnesota here

    http://www.startribune.com/462/story/709262.html

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    I don't see how anyone can compare alcohol as equal to a guide dog. Besides can't most private business refuse service to people? There is no law that says you have to let anyone who wants to purchase a product or service do so. I know there are exceptions such refusing service based on race for example. But other than that I don't think it is illegal to refuse to sell someone something.

    Would I be annoyed if I was refused cab service because I had a bottle of bubbly in my grocery bag? Sure! But I wouldn't be saying the cabbie had no choice but to drive me.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I don't see how anyone can compare alcohol as equal to a guide dog. Besides can't most private business refuse service to people? There is no law that says you have to let anyone who wants to purchase a product or service do so. I know there are exceptions such refusing service based on race for example. But other than that I don't think it is illegal to refuse to sell someone something.

    I totally agree - that is why I chase black people away from my lunch counter (. If they are lucky I will let them sit in the back of the bus (.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusZ
    Some Muslim cabbies in Minneapolis are refusing service to anyone they know is carrying alcohol. More interesting is when blind people are sometimes refused service because their guide dogs are "unclean" animals. Interestingly enough, in the United States, if a blind person with a guide dog was refused such service, a lawsuit could be filed under the Americans with Disabilities Act. The incident I read about re: a guide dog was somewhere in th U.K. And there is more to read about the incident in Minnesota here
    Yea, it's all about refusing to do something for you - but don't you dare fucking refuse them! That's racist!

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    I totally agree - that is why I chase black people away from my lunch counter (. If they are lucky I will let them sit in the back of the bus (.

    Funny how you completely left out the part of my quote that says there are exceptions such as race for example.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Yea, it's all about refusing to do something for you - but don't you dare fucking refuse them! That's racist!
    Actually it's about you demanding that they violate their religious beliefs in order to offer you a service that other people who do not share that religious belief are perfectly willing to provide you.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Show me where in the Koran it says, "Thou shalt not drive a car with someone else's unopened alcohol in the back seat." Come on. This isn't about violating anyone's religious beliefs and you know it.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    There is no law that says you have to let anyone who wants to purchase a product or service do so. I know there are exceptions such refusing service based on race for example. But other than that I don't think it is illegal to refuse to sell someone something.
    Ask this to a pharmacist in Illinois or Massachusetts who doesn't want to sell emergency contraception.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    Ask this to a pharmacist in Illinois or Massachusetts who doesn't want to sell emergency contraception.
    What is the status of other States besides those two regarding that issue?

    From this article I gather that most States allow a Pharmacist to refuse to fill scripts if it violates their religious believes.



    But like the guide dog comparission I have to question how a cab ride can be equally compared to a choosing to have a child or needing a guide dog to get around safely. However you do make a good debate point. Well done!
    Last edited by Fan_Dancer; 10-12-2006 at 04:29 PM.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah
    Show me where in the Koran it says, "Thou shalt not drive a car with someone else's unopened alcohol in the back seat." Come on. This isn't about violating anyone's religious beliefs and you know it.
    What do mean you that I know it

    If it is not about their religious beliefs then why are they doing it ? What would be the point of refusing to carry people who have booze?

    While I am aware that they have strict beliefs regarding alcohol, I don't personally know of any verse in the Koran but then again it isn't my faith.

    I guess I just don't see why they would give up earnings on regular basis if it weren't for a very close personal belief.

    Why do you think they are doing it?

    Do you think that if it is in fact a religious belief that they should be legally forced to not abide by it?

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    I look forward to enforcing and discomforting others with my religious beliefs. Funny how these people call out for tolerance and yet are so intolerant. Fuck them.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    I've now found a link which does cover a cabbie refusing service to a woman with a guide dog within the U.S., specifically in Ohio.

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/04/03/loc_cabbie.html


    And another link about guide dogs now being permitted in the passenger compartment of some U.K. flights. Another interesting clash between religious rights and the rights of the physically challenged, to be pc.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/4407907.stm

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusZ
    I've now found a link which does cover a cabbie refusing service to a woman with a guide dog within the U.S., specifically in Ohio.
    See now that I have a problem with because blind people actually need their dogs. I am sure those who refuse guide dogs will be punished in some manner by law.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Yet another sign of the coming future Third World America. I just hope it happens after all my progeny have long since left this earth.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I don't see how anyone can compare alcohol as equal to a guide dog. Besides can't most private business refuse service to people? There is no law that says you have to let anyone who wants to purchase a product or service do so. I know there are exceptions such refusing service based on race for example. But other than that I don't think it is illegal to refuse to sell someone something.

    Would I be annoyed if I was refused cab service because I had a bottle of bubbly in my grocery bag? Sure! But I wouldn't be saying the cabbie had no choice but to drive me.
    Unless the cabbie owns the cab, that is exactly what he should be doing. If a Muslim doesn't like it, he can get a job that doesn't require his beliefs to be compromised.

    God, I hate when people defend this kind of crap. If you move to this country, you know what you're getting in to. If you don't want to be around people who drink and have a problem with that, then either don't move here or don't do jobs that require that you break whatever fucked up religious beliefs you have.

    The fucked up part is, if this was a Christian cabbie refusing to take a someone who was coming out of an adult book store, the board would be all over it. Religious fanaticism SUCKS no matter the religion.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    Unless the cabbie owns the cab, that is exactly what he should be doing.
    So if he owns it then it's ok? What if the cab owner thinks it's ok for the cabbie to not carry people with alcohol? Isn't that the case with the owner in the O.P. link?

    Haven't they found a way to let people know which cabbies have that policy so that they can choose a cab that doesn't if they so desire.They found a good compromise to suit both parties needs.

    I think as long the cabbie is not violating laws (like equal rights laws for example) then it should be ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    If a Muslim doesn't like it, he can get a job that doesn't require his beliefs to be compromised. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    don't do jobs that require that you break whatever fucked up religious beliefs you have..
    So does that go for the fundy Christian pharmacist who doesn't want to fill birth control scripts too? Sometimes allowing the right to religious freedom can be annoying but isn't it something we profess to cherish in this country? Or does that just go for religions other than the Muslim one? I would hope not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    God, I hate when people defend this kind of crap.
    I guess I am just sensitive to the constent "all Muslims are evil/terrorist" stuff that gets posted around here. It's just so bigoted and drives me batty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    Religious fanaticism SUCKS no matter the religion.
    Well on that I agree with you. I also think that fanaticism AGAINST a religion sucks, no matter what the religion.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    So if he owns it then it's ok? What if the cab owner thinks it's ok for the cabbie to not carry people with alcohol? Isn't that the case with the owner in the O.P. link?

    Haven't they found a way to let people know which cabbies have that policy so that they can choose a cab that doesn't if they so desire.They found a good compromise to suit both parties needs.
    The primary problem for me with this is the article stated about 75% of the 900 cabbies in the airport area are Muslim. That greatly increases the probability of someone being unable to find a cab quickly. And if someone loses a big business contract because s/he is unable to get to a meeting with a potential client on time, who should be financially liable when the inevitable lawsuit is filed? The cabbie? The owner of the cab company? The local airport authority? The city government? All of the above? Lawsuits are weapons now, and we still have "gunslingers"(i.e., lawyers) for hire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I guess I am just sensitive to the constent "all Muslims are evil/terrorist" stuff that gets posted around here. It's just so bigoted and drives me batty.
    "All" of any particular group can't be accurately described with one or two particular adjectives. However, in the case of at least some Muslims, there is a problem with the following

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html

    http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004135.php


    If we are going to be multicultural as far as accepting Islam, does that mean these honor killings should be accepted in the U.S. or Europe as an integral part of Islamic culture? Such seems to be the case in a number of countries which are primarily Islamic.

    On a much less serious note, the "Los Angeles Times" had a series about Muslims living in Las Vegas, although why someone following Islam would want to settle in that particular city leaves me thoroughly confused. Of course, there are a whole lot of Mormons who live there too, and caffeine is a rather nasty drug in their religion.

    One of the articles had a brief paragraph about a Muslim cabbie there, who would try to talk his fares out of going to certain places. In his case, the places he tried to talk them out of entering were stripclubs. Per the article, he would take his fares to the clubs, but would be dejected when he was unable to talk them out of going...but he still did his job. The article didn't say much more about him, but I would guess he would be very happy on one of those rare times he succeeded in talking a fare or fares out of going to an SC.

    Canada might or might not have a solution, even if it is only a partial one, but some of the women who immigrated from Iran, for example, would be very, very unhappy, considering they immigrated to Canada specifically to escape Sharia.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...nt/3599264.stm

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusZ
    who should be financially liable when the inevitable lawsuit is filed? The cabbie? The owner of the cab company? The local airport authority? The city government? All of the above?
    If that should happen, it is up to the courts to decide but considering businesses are legaly allowed to refuse service to people (with a few exceptions none of which apply to people who have booze on their person) I would expect such a lawsuit would go nowhere fast.




    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusZ
    If we are going to be multicultural as far as accepting Islam, does that mean these honor killings should be accepted in the U.S.
    Who said that? Certianly not me. Are you really trying to compare refusing service to people carring booze to so called honor killings as equal? Btw, not all Muslims or Islamic nations practice such an act -in fact very few do so. Most do not.

    Remember the Bible also calls for some pretty extreem punishments too- it is not just the Koran that has things like that in it. So lets not go there either.
    Last edited by Fan_Dancer; 10-17-2006 at 08:23 PM.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    In general, I don't think you can refuse service (including selling things) based on race, sex, religion or disability. So the guide dogs are in. The liquor... hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde
    Unless the cabbie owns the cab, that is exactly what he should be doing. If a Muslim doesn't like it, he can get a job that doesn't require his beliefs to be compromised.
    Okay, this is not sensible. That just the cry of conformity. If his religious beliefs can viably be accommodated, then it should be. People shouldn't have to choose between their religion and their livelihood unless it is an integral part of the job (for example, if a store is only open on Sundays, it wouldn't be reasonable to have the store employees observe Sunday as a holy day. There is no reason that he can't do his job and not carry passengers that carry booze. I would expect, however, that it is more of an inclination than a religious issue. I mean, in any given American city one shares space with liquor and drunk people, and people carrying liquor all the time, every day. It is likely that they are trying to avoid picking up people who might be drunk. I would further suspect that a complaint to the cab company would probably be effective.

    Alternatively, though, it could be a problem if so many cab drivers engage in the behaviour that people can't get cabs. Then there are issues of public safety etc (as opposed to public inconvenience). My dad lived on an island on which they had GPS put in the cabs in order to force them to pick up and drop off people who were inconveniently located.
    God, I hate when people defend this kind of crap. If you move to this country, you know what you're getting in to. If you don't want to be around people who drink and have a problem with that, then either don't move here or don't do jobs that require that you break whatever fucked up religious beliefs you have.
    The rousing call of "you must conform/you must conform".

    The fucked up part is, if this was a Christian cabbie refusing to take a someone who was coming out of an adult book store, the board would be all over it. Religious fanaticism SUCKS no matter the religion.
    Well, as much as I agree in a personal sense, you can't possibly believe that orthoChristians have never refused to pick up prostitutes, johns, guys coming out of strip clubs, girls coming out of strip clubs, etc. It is not just the dreaded racially other cab driver that exercising selectivity. Cab drivers have a rough gig of it, in most cities anyway. Until it becomes a public hazard, I would cut them a break.

    nd if someone loses a big business contract because s/he is unable to get to a meeting with a potential client on time, who should be financially liable when the inevitable lawsuit is filed?
    Do you think a cab company, especially one that has not already been hired, bears a duty of care for this?
    If we are going to be multicultural as far as accepting Islam, does that mean these honor killings should be accepted in the U.S. or Europe as an integral part of Islamic culture? Such seems to be the case in a number of countries which are primarily Islamic.
    Offhand? I would say that is kind of like saying that men killing their wives is an American cultural trait. Or children killing their schoolmates. Or fathers raping their daughters. Are these terrible crimes representative of American culture because they happen frequently or with growing frequnecy in America? I would like to posit that the answer to that would be no.
    Last edited by Jenny; 10-17-2006 at 08:11 PM.
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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Regardless of the legality of it - it demarks what kind of country do we want to live in.

    Personally, I don't want to live in a country where people can eye me up and refuse me service on their whim.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    People are allowed to refuse you service on a whim. You DO live in that kind of country. They are not allowed to refuse you service because of a few specific reasons.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    People here in the USA get denied service for all kinds of reasons that the business or business owner feels is justified. We have laws to protect from those reasons being completely out of line. And unless a business or business owner violates those laws it is just something we have to accept, like it or not.

    If some people here have such a massive problem with cab drivers being able to refuse service to people who carry booze then maybe you should try to get a law passed which will protect people with booze on their person from being denied a cab ride. I'd like see how far that goes. lol !

    I think the problem people here are having over this has very little to do with a service being denied or why and much, much more to do with who is refusing to provide the service.

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    If some people here have such a massive problem with cab drivers being able to refuse service to people who carry booze then maybe you should try to get a law passed which will protect people with booze on their person from being denied a cab ride. I'd like see how far that goes. lol !
    Not me. I can't drink alcohol due to medical reasons, so someone who enjoys wine or whatever a lot more than I can will have to be the one to initiate such a project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    I think the problem people here are having over this has very little to do with a service being denied or why and much, much more to do with who is refusing to provide the service.
    Nope, the problem I have is with multiculturalism itself, not any specific group. And I find certain religions far more irritating than certain ethnic groups, such as either the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses - but that stems from members of either of those groups not availing themselves of the opportunity to stay away from my front door, no matter what their ethnic background. And in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, I've had people from almost every ethnic background at my front door. There seems to be a great comprehension problem in that I'm not at all interested in joining any religion other than the one I was raised in(and actually not even that one), no matter what kind of crap someone is going to tell me about their religion being the only religion.

    One of my cousins, quite the conservative herself, gets upset with me every couple years or so if I get involved in a debate about this topic with her and her brother. I only inquire of them if we're going to be so multicultural in the Uniited State, maybe I should do a crash course in my ancestral tongue, Croatian, do a heavy brushup on my Spanish from high school, and then proceed to reply to any questions addressed to me in either English or Spanish in Croatian. Because I hold the attitude if you expect me to accept so many other cultures and their languages, then you effing well better accept my ancestral culture/language as well. My cousin thinks I'm carrying this too far, but to me, it's only carrying it to the final logical conclusion, even if it means returning to the Biblical "Tower of Babel."

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    People are allowed to refuse you service on a whim. You DO live in that kind of country. They are not allowed to refuse you service because of a few specific reasons.

    True. But if I reject their ways and beliefs I am "closed minded."

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    Default Re: One of the "unexpected consequences" of Multiculturalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    True. But if I reject their ways and beliefs I am "closed minded."
    Of course, we were treated to just how "open minded" the left is to dissenting opinions/debate as exemplified by a bunch of students at Columbia University two weeks ago.

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