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Thread: Forbes Top Ten Metros

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    Default Forbes Top Ten Metros

    My city is ranked #1

    Our top-ranked metro, Albuquerque, N.M., has the lowest business costs in the country, 24% below the national average. Albuquerque also benefited from an educated population and rising household incomes.

    To calculate living expenses, Economy.com considered housing, transportation, food and other household expenses. In the rankings, we also examined job and income growth, as well as migration trends over the last five years.

  2. #2
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    A. great for you and other Albuquerque residents

    B. don't gloat too loudly, since much of your area's success is heavily subsidized by the federal taxes leveed on residents of other states (i.e. NM receives $2 in federal spending for every $1 it collects in federal taxes ... spent mostly on Sandia Labs and Los Alamos) !

    Add to that the fact that Albuquerque has been the recipient of $235 million (so far) in state tax funded 'subsidies' to new businesses which have spun off of Sandia Labs and Los Alamos research - new businesses which have attracted a lot of 'hot money' investment but which have so far failed to prove they will be the basis of viable long term industries.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    I only visit Metros wouldnt want to live in one but thats just me .

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    Senior Member Fan_Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    don't gloat too loudly, since much of your area's success is heavily subsidized by the federal taxes leveed on residents of other states
    Is there a single metro area in the whole country that doesn't get ANY at all?
    Last edited by Fan_Dancer; 10-18-2006 at 04:29 PM. Reason: removed defensive comment

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    like that is all my fault or that I have any control over it anyway. I guess your State receives zero subsidizes, eh.

    Is there a single metro are in the whole country that doesn't get ANY at all?
    Dude chill. NM is historically one of the poorest states in the US. My physician friend is from there. The state government was willing to pay back all his medical school loans if he were to practice in NM. They had a heavy braindrain over there and really needed talent. He decided to just pay off the $100k and practice elsewhere, since doctors don't do very well there apparently. That's my experience. NM is a beautiful place!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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  6. #6
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Half are in the South! Two in North Carolina, two in Tennessee, and one in Arkansas. Woohoo. The South is rising again.

    I used to live in #5 - Knoxville, TN. It's a really nice little town. Peaceful and pleasant.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Kinda depressing. The only city I'd move to on that list is Raleigh. Or Phoenix but only because of it's proximity to Vegas.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on Albuquerque ... only pointing out that 50+% of the gov't funding that helps make Albuquerque the top ranked Metro city is being paid for by other Americans that don't live in NM. To answer your question in terms of my own state, NY receives just 56 cents back for every dollar of federal tax collected there - so the level of federal subsidies is less than zero ! The other 44 cents from New Yorker's federal tax payments winds up going to subsidize other states and cities. In contrast, NM receives 100% of every dollar collected in federal taxes from New Mexicans right back again, plus an additional dollar collected from residents of other states is sent to NM besides. Since part of the reason that Albuquerque is ranked the #1 metro area is due to some portion of MY federal tax money being sent to NM, I felt that this gives me the right to at least point out what's really going on in the way of 'wealth transfer' and 'subsidies'.

    Also, the conclusion that NM is one of the 'poorest' states is not borne out by average Albuquerque white collar pay rates ... but again those are funded in large part by the US federal gov't and NM state gov't dollars and not by the private sector local economy. It IS true that the income / standard of living of the 'poorest' NM residents is pretty low, but this is the result of NM gov't decisions to spend millions of dollars on business incentives and tax breaks while spending comparatively little on education, social welfare benefits, health care etc.

    Re comments that 'the south is rising again', if you check the fine print you'll find that much of the reason for this is an organized effort in Washington over the past 10+ years to gradually close federally funded military and research and support facilities in 'blue' states, and to continue or expand similar facilities in 'red' states. This is the reason that nearly half of the federal tax dollars now collected in NY, IL, CA, etc. now are transferred to bolster the economies of NM, NC, TN etc. (AK is an anomaly of course, still benefitting from Clinton era federal 'pork'). Southern states also typically decide to spend far less on education, social welfare benefits, health care etc. and as a result their individual and corporate tax levels are lower providing a more 'business friendly' economic climate, a more 'affordable' cost of living, etc.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-17-2006 at 06:59 PM.

  9. #9
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    The only thing I remember about Albuquerque is the air base where my uncle was stationed and a Neil Young song.

    "Albuquerque"

    Well, they say
    that Santa Fe
    Is less than ninety miles away,
    And I got time to roll a number
    and rent a car.
    Oh, Albuquerque.

    I've been flyin'
    down the road,
    And I've been starvin' to be alone,
    And independent from the scene
    that I've known.
    Albuquerque.

    So I'll stop when I can,
    Find some fried eggs
    and country ham.
    I'll find somewhere where
    they don't care who I am.
    Oh, Albuquerque,
    Albuquerque.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    . NM receives $2 in federal spending for every $1 it collects in federal taxes ... spent mostly on Sandia Labs and Los Alamos) !

    Add to that the fact that Albuquerque has been the recipient of $235 million (so far) in state tax funded 'subsidies' to new businesses which have spun off of Sandia Labs and Los Alamos research
    These two Labs are part of the things that protect this nation- i.e., national security.




    Seems like a worthy thing to use tax dollars for, imo.
    Last edited by Fan_Dancer; 10-18-2006 at 04:30 PM. Reason: edited out comment that was deemed snide

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Ofcourse the labs aren't the only big companies here in ABQ.

    We also have a big Intell plant which is like a little city all on it's own. Anyone wo has ever been to the plant knows what I mean!

    In addition to that we are getting a film studio lot. I think it is a Lions Gate Films one.That means that movies will be made here in the near future which is prety neat, imo.

    Plus I understand that Verizon is planning a big expansion here.

    All these companies mean jobs- mostly white collar jobs too. Which probably explains why real estate here is doing so much better compared to much of the rest of the nation.

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    Featured Member Katherine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Fan Dancer, I think you're majorly misinterpreting Melonie here. 'Some' people oppose having blah blah blah...

    Everyone here on SW fully appreciates that Mel is able to take an objective view and give facts and figures.

    You love where you live? Great!!! (Wow, check out 'A' of Mel's first post here...) Shocker.

    Instead of your snide comments about what you're taking as city bashing, take a step back and see the constructive work that Mel's put in here by ways of opening eyes just a bit more on why these cities made it to the list.

    Seriously. Humph.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Fair enough, I will delete or edit my replies accordingly.
    Last edited by Fan_Dancer; 10-18-2006 at 04:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    I'll bash those cities. If they don't suck, they're boring. I could care less about their overall financial prospects because there is not one place I would like to live on that list.

    Hah!

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Well, Houston is in the mix!

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Anyone look at the long 200 city list? Did you try to sort it by one of the three criteria they used?

    I mean I don't think its coincidental that a lot of the cities which ranked high under "cost of doing business", didn't fare so well under "job growth" or "educational attainment", and vice versa.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    It IS true that the income / standard of living of the 'poorest' NM residents is pretty low, but this is the result of NM gov't decisions to spend millions of dollars on business incentives and tax breaks while spending comparatively little on education, social welfare benefits, health care etc.

    Actually "Education Week" a non-partisan education policy magazine, awarded New Mexico an "A grade" for standards, assessments, and accountability and we tied for 6th best in the nation.

    Our Gov. created a plan that expanded health insurance for all New Mexico's families & since Richardson has been in office he has doubled the number of school based-health care centers in every county. He also implemented a Medical Assistance Program to ensure every child under five receives health care.

    In N.M we have a program that provides small employers and individuals more affordable insurance options. We also have a state coverage insurance program, which expands health insurance to working New Mexicans. There are also opportunities for part-time employees to get health insurance and allowed dependents to stay on their parents’ insurance policies longer.


    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    I don't think its coincidental that a lot of the cities which ranked high under "cost of doing business", didn't fare so well under "job growth" or "educational attainment", and vice versa.
    Good point!

    Something I am wondering is how the best metros for business list compares with CURRENT dancer earning potential. Any connections to strong earning for dancer with these metros? I suspect it may go hand in hand.

    Any thoughts?

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Something I am wondering is how the best metros for business list compares with CURRENT dancer earning potential. Any connections to strong earning for dancer with these metros? I suspect it may go hand in hand.
    I would argue that there are a lot more components which contribute to 'dancer earnings potential' than simply the average pay rates / average costs of living of a particular city. First off, one must consider the 'acceptability' of a local guy becoming a strip club customer - where local 'moral' climate + gov't / corporate policies re their employees patronizing strip clubs come into play big time. Next you've got official gov't regulation of strip clubs affecting the profitability of local clubs' business models.

    Of the top ten cities on the list, there are probably only two (Houston and Indy) that provide an above average dancer earnings potential (and where Houston is concerned girls usually have to do quite a bit more than just dance in order to earn it).

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    I'm with SusanW; I'm not drawn to any location on that list.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Ridiculous list.

    I don't know where the line should be, but under 1 million residents is not a 'metro' area.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox
    under 1 million residents is not a 'metro' area.
    So you don't consider Boston, Detroit , San Fran or Atlanta to qualify for "metro status? According to this link none of those cities have a population of 1 million.

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    a breaking news story about Albuquerque - Los Alamos ...



    (snip)"The FBI has been called in to lead the investigation into the security breach and executed a search warrant on Friday. The U.S. attorney's office in Albuquerque, N.M., is reviewing the case.

    The Los Alamos Laboratory has been hit by multiple security and management scandals in recent years. Problems were so widespread that Congress forced the contract for management of the lab to go up for bid for the first time ever. However, after bidding, the contract was re-awarded to the same contractor: the University of California."(snip)

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    ^ No matter how hard you search for negative things to say about ABQ it doesn't change that it was ranked #1 by Forbes. The fact is this is still a fantastic place (as are he other metros on the list ) for business these days. Which was ofcourse was my point in posting this thread to begin with.... this could have been a great discussion about cities that are hot bussines spots right now but noooooo you just couldn't let that happen now could you? Ofcourse not. And why is that- we both know it is because of who started the thread now don't we

    Now go ahead and get in your last word just like you always have to do. You already ruined the topic anyway (just like you wanted)

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_Dancer
    So you don't consider Boston, Detroit , San Fran or Atlanta to qualify for "metro status? According to this link none of those cities have a population of 1 million.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population
    They absolutely qualify, those are populations within the city limits, not the metropolitan area.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

    09 Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta GA 4,917,717
    10 Detroit–Warren–Livonia MI 4,488,335
    11 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy MA–NH 4,411,835
    12 San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont CA 4,152,688

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    Default Re: Forbes Top Ten Metros

    ^ No matter how hard you search for negative things to say about ABQ it doesn't change that it was ranked #1 by Forbes
    I never disputed that fact ... nor were my postings (including that news story about Los Alamos) necessarily derogative towards ABQ, unless the reader chose to view them as such. The reason I posted the news story about Los Alamos was to provide a graphic illustration of the Federal Tax Subsidy 'injection' from other states which arguably serves as the major economic engine in the ABQ area (as well as the Berkeley CA area via the UC Livermore Labs Los Alamos management contract).

    There would appear to be no reason to expect that gov't policy will change in the near future in regard to the Federal Tax Subsidy 'injection' which is arguably responsible for ABQ being ranked #1 by Forbes. If 8 years of Republican majorities in Washington and a national security / mismanagement scandal have failed to reduce these Federal Tax Subsidies so far, it's highly unlikely to expect a course change from this point forward.

    this could have been a great discussion about cities that are hot bussines spots right now
    Well, that would require that we actually discuss cities that aren't on the Forbes list - because as I attempted to illustrate earlier ABQ's 'business' is not really all that hot if one looks only at private sector business conditions / profits rather than at massive gov't spending / subsidies on white collar 'civil service' jobs which arguably constitute the majority of total employment in the ABQ area.

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