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Thread: War is so...sad

  1. #1
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    Default War is so...sad

    I dunno...this guy I knew from back in my farmer worker girl days just got shot to death in Afganistan. He was two years younger than me...and I'm young . I just saw his picture on the news. It seems like 2-3 Canadians are getting killed there every week...

    At thanksgiving dinner a couple weeks ago my mom's best friend (who's an air force doctor and just got back from six months in Kandahar) was telling horrible, graphic stories of what it's like. God. Both my parents are in the air force, and people, our military is TINY. Any given American air force base has more people than our entire air force. My mom won't go because she has an injury that requires surgery, but my dad might. They're like, 50. No fucking way they should go get blown up at this point in their lives for a war no one understands. Doctor Officer Lady was saying "afganistan is our Vietnam", on and on. Talking about these young kids getting limbs blown off, getting infections so bad from bugs their bodies aren't used to...rashes to the point their skin peels off. Then shot at, bombed, for what what what? All these kids who go to RMC so they can have a free education...are now getting shipped off the second they graduate.

    Some of her stories were funny, like a guy who offered two camels to her commanding officer because he thought a white doctor as a wife would be the shit.

    I dunno. My pacifistic ramblings are not well informed, but this 'peacekeeping' mission seems horribly mislead. I know how many young people are dying in Iraq...but even 'the american war' seemed far off. I'm just so sad that kid died. So sad. Wow. It's hard to imagine...I knew him as this friendly, freckled kid.

    uch. Wow. Just had to get it off my chest. I'm a military brat who grew up with all these folks who loved our country, and wanted to fight for it. Now so many are bitter and don't get it. I don't get it.

  2. #2
    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    I don't get it either, but from the opposite perspective.

    I don't know anyone in the Canadian military...the first military people I ever met (knowingly) were some Marines I met when I was 21...since, I've met military guys at clubs, but that's it. Oh, and a girl at my high school was in Air Cadets, if that counts.

    But from a position of total ignorance about war and military stuff...yeah, it's sad. I can't even comprehend enough to have an opinion because I don't understand what they're doing tactically, or what exactly they hope to accomplish.

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  3. #3
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    This has been on my mind, especially since I had a horrible nightmare about what's happening in Iraq. My cousin has PTSD from his first tour there....he wouldn't talk about it too much though....It pains me to think of the permanently damaged people who will be coming home.....

    I regret that our Administration used false pretenses to start a war in the Middle East. Given recent history, Iraq must have seemed a good target, given Saddam's lack of charm & tendency to antagonize anyone, anywhere. Sometimes I think the Iraq war is a favor done for the Saudis, to rid them of a troublesome neighbor & for us to be stuck with monitoring Iran. As for Afghanistan, we (the U.S. + Allies) are fufilling Bush's promise to act against extremists who threaten Westerm civilization.

    As for the people fighting the war, well......it used to be a noble thing to "go off to war". There's a beautiful monument to World War 1 fallen soldiers in my town...it was from when people were more innocent...
    War is an ugly neccessity, not meant to be done often. Human nature is animalistic, both in the good and bad extremes.

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    Featured Member Prester_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    T

    As for the people fighting the war, well......it used to be a noble thing to "go off to war". There's a beautiful monument to World War 1 fallen soldiers in my town...it was from when people were more innocent...
    The ironic thing about that statement was that World War I was massively bloody on a scale that completely outstripped anything that happened previously in world history. Howver, the USA got off light compared to the British, French, German, Italian and Russians (126,000 killed and died of wounds for the USA, compared to, say the 1,357,800 France lost), and it took place far from everyones back yards. People here could tend to remain romantic and innocent about it still.

    It wasnt until after World War II that a lot of World War I monuments in European battlefields were erected.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    I think the war in Afghanistan was and is valid. We brought the Northern Alliance to victory over the Taliban which was aiding international terrorism. What else could be done?

    I think the war in Iraq was valid. Other than everyone fixated on Bush's mentioning WMD there - there was plenty of reason to finish the work of Gulf I. Unfortunately, the reconstruction has been a disaster with few beacons of hope.

    The truth is - those are rough countries filled with rough people unpracticed in civilization, freedom, and personal rights as we know it. (Just ask the lady accosted by a new middle eastern immigrant for daring to take pictures on the street in NY - he had no idea it was her right to do so.) Unfortunately they want their presence and power to be felt here.

    War ... Sucks.

  6. #6
    God/dess LuckiCharm's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    u know...i hate war too. my cousin leaves for iraq tomorrow and i wish to God he didnt have to go. but at the same time, nothing else can be done, like Deogol said. what are we supposed to do? sit here and "ohh poor people in iraq....we're over there causing war" BLAH BLAH BULL SHIT while they come over here and blow up every city in america till we all are dead???? sorry...i just get mad when i think about all the people here throwing all these temper tantrums and protests just thinking that bush can bring the soldiers home and that will be that....guess what? if that happens the terrorists will bring their asses right back over here and blow something else up. it aint that easy.
    trust me, i am upset about this war as much as anyone else...my closest family member is leaving to fight in it. just be glad that we have people to defend us, and if anything, you should be proud that 2 of those people are your parents.

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    God/dess scarlett_vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    I think the war in Afghanistan was and is valid. We brought the Northern Alliance to victory over the Taliban which was aiding international terrorism. What else could be done?
    Well. I went for dinner tonight at an Afghani place. The owner knew my friend, so he came over to chat, and wihin two seconds they got into a political debate. The way this guy saw it, people in Afghanistan expected the US to stick around and help rebuild the country.

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  8. #8
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Um, well, the Afghanis have a point. America bailed on Afghanistan after using them to combat the Soviets (see: "CIA provides aid to Osama Bin Laden".) Their country is a mess. That's why the Taliban was able to set up shop in the first place.
    scarlett- I bet your dinner arguement was no where as crazy as having a Kuwaiti girl throw a glass at my table because I was sitting with Iraqis ; P She was drunk & pissed off. Fundamentally, Americans cannot understand the bitterness of having one's homeland smashed & loved ones killed like animals. It didn't happen on a large scale here in the continental 48 states until September 11th.

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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Well, I've heard my mom make a point that Afghanistan does need to be rebuilt, and that's why we're there...cuz so many American troops had to leave and go to Iraq. I know there is still an American presence in Afghanistan too...it just...I dunno. I can't necessarily argue the reasons we're there in principle, but the reality of the situation is getting confusing. Right now we're like 17000 in our military. That's our ENTIRE CANADIAN MILITARY. This American soldier was asking my mom "oh, like your army has 17000?" ...no, our navy + army+ air force = 17000 (and we don't have marines, despite what many american soldiers still believes). The number of students at my university is something like 12000 I think.

    Yeah, it's an intramilitary argument I guess. But it just seems to me, that proportionally...all these young kids are dying off, and there's so few of them in uniform to begin with. I dunno...what next? Canadian draft? War just bums me out in general, valid in principle, or not.

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    Senior Member Fan_Dancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Molly,

    I am so sorry to hear of your young friends death. Being a military brat myself, I understand the feelings you expressed in your post all too well. I am saying a prayer for your friend and his family tonight along with my usual prayers for peace in the world.

    Take care

  11. #11
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Well, I've heard my mom make a point that Afghanistan does need to be rebuilt, and that's why we're there
    Canada is there because Afghanistan is a NATO commitment. Truth be told, American boots on the ground would rather have Canadian units present than some from certain European countries, simply because for all the problems in Canada's military (primarily due to a disturbing lack of funding and procurement), Canadian troops actually know how to fight quite well and they can use what little equipment they have to very good effect. One just needs to look at the storied history of the Canadian armed forces in the last 60 years to see this (Dieppe, anyone?), but current Canadian leadership seems to think it unimportant compared to say, funding ridiculous and ineffectual initiatives like the national gun registry, which has become a boondoggle economically.

    Right now we're like 17000 in our military. That's our ENTIRE CANADIAN MILITARY.
    For size comparisons, that's just slightly more than the size of one US division. There's just under 20K US troops in Afghanistan currently.

    War just bums me out in general, valid in principle, or not.
    It's not that war is not the answer. War is the question, and sometimes the answer is yes.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    I think any American / or anyone, on either side lost in a war is a loss for us all its very sad . Nobody has the book or manual on how to fix a clusterfuck like we are in . But I feel with time it will all work itself out - you just dont go in and tame an entire country who has been fighting for generations . Once we can feel somewhat confident as to their own people enforcing the laws and establishing a gov only then should we leave .

    I just hope China will take the lead with North Korea this could be a huge problem .

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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Here's what I believe needs to be said on this:

    My heart bleeds for the poor people in our military cuz politicians get them involved in too many conflicts, do not equip them, cut their budgets, and hang them out to dry. The people who do not support our troops aren't the peaceniks, it's the people in power. If we truly intend to support our troops, and get them back (and, damn it, we should) then we need to use our military wisely and give them what they need to complete their missions safely and well. Throwing kids into danger zones with outdated humvees and saying good luck will not get the job done.

    The US, Canada the UK and Australia boast some of the most well trained, bravest troops in the world, but that doesn't always win wars, or protect against bullets. Those brave fighters need more. We need to give it to them, or bring them home.

    War does suck, but it need not suck this much.

    Siber
    "Maybe you'll ask me to come back again and
    Maybe I'll say.... Maybe"

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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    ^^Amen.

    And CO, my god, you know more about Canadian politics than I do.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    ^ IR is something of a hobby for me.

    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    God/dess Mastridonicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    ^- When you're fat and balding, what else do you do?
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    ^ Look for the parts of my meals that I drop into my fat rolls; they start to itch and fester after a few days.

    Remind me to tell you all sometime the story of the stripper and the limburger-and-sauerkraut sandwich...
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: War is so...sad

    Quote Originally Posted by Siber
    Here's what I believe needs to be said on this:

    My heart bleeds for the poor people in our military cuz politicians get them involved in too many conflicts, do not equip them, cut their budgets, and hang them out to dry. The people who do not support our troops aren't the peaceniks, it's the people in power. If we truly intend to support our troops, and get them back (and, damn it, we should) then we need to use our military wisely and give them what they need to complete their missions safely and well. Throwing kids into danger zones with outdated humvees and saying good luck will not get the job done.

    The US, Canada the UK and Australia boast some of the most well trained, bravest troops in the world, but that doesn't always win wars, or protect against bullets. Those brave fighters need more. We need to give it to them, or bring them home.

    War does suck, but it need not suck this much.

    Siber

    Well said, Siber.

    I would also like to add that "we the people" are not completely helpless in this matter either. We have a voice and we have a vote. No matter if a person is for or against this war we owe it to our military men and women to cast that vote and be heard whenever we have the chance to do it.

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