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Thread: Stop fingering me, dammit.

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Scout's Avatar
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    Default Stop fingering me, dammit.

    What gives customers the right to do whatever they want with us? No matter what type of contact is standard in the club, a customer never should grope a dancer unless she expresses consent.

    Consent, people. Consent. You need permission.

    I am disgusted when a customer grabs my boobs or pinches my clit and fucking laughs like the rules I set forth were a joke and the punchline was a mouth on my nipple.

    Lucky lady he's married to.

    Great role model for the kids.

    Pillar of the community.

    Tell a bouncer? Sure, they care. That's why they socialize at bouncerweb.com where they shop talk and figure out ways to do a better job. Like refrain from going into hysterics when we report violations.

    My will, my boundries mean nothing. Why? Why am I treated like a kidnapped child locked in some freak's basement and used when needed? Why do customers have this mentality?

    Is it fun abusing women? Am I missing something?

    NOTE: Please don't tell me to be more on guard. Honestly, I am very good at that. Maybe once a month, someone grazes my boobs. I don't even grind because I don't want to do it.

    I really want your thoughts on why men (and worse, women) try to pull this shit.

    Is it rape instinct?
    Last edited by Scout; 11-09-2006 at 06:24 AM.

  2. #2
    God/dess Andygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    You need to learn defensive dancing. I cannot imagine having to deal with that sort of thing. Sure, every now and then I have to fight one off, but if this is happening on a regular basis there are things you can do to prevent it.
    Check out my new eBay auctions.......

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Scout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andygirl
    You need to learn defensive dancing. I cannot imagine having to deal with that sort of thing. Sure, every now and then I have to fight one off, but if this is happening on a regular basis there are things you can do to prevent it.
    I am one of the best defensive dancers I know. I am irritated that they try. I want to know why they try.

  4. #4
    God/dess PookaShell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Hahaha. Bouncerweb.

  5. #5
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    You don't need to care why. You need to show them why they shouldn't do that.

    You gotta learn how to dig your thumb into their eye socket, rugby-match style. That usually stops them. Or a knee/heel to the crotch.

    Someone on here said she floored a grabby man by punching him in the Adam's apple. I would have paid to see that.

    Edit to add- why they do it? They think they'll get away with it. Simple.

  6. #6
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Ugh, fucking disgusting. Rape instinct is right. I have thrown a beer bottle at more than one gropey asshole.

    If we were prostitutes, they'd be stealing!

  7. #7
    Veteran Member carmen124's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    OMG pinching your clit??? Custys have gotten stillettos in the crotch for WAY less in my case. My only suggestions besides the obvious defensive dancing is to change clubs ASAP! You should always be able to count on the bouncers at least. sheesh!

    As for why? shiiit why is the sky blue? because they're ass holes that think you somehow "like" it? i dunno.. :-(
    XoXo


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  8. #8
    God/dess Mare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Neanderthal.

  9. #9
    God/dess Embyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    THANK YOU!!!! and STOP tryINg To FiNGer MY ASs wiTH ThAt ScRapY LoNg FinGerNaIl you PUTZ!!!! IF I DOn'T LIKE MY BOY's cOcK nEaR ThEre then I most CERTAINLY don't want your grubby little finger jabbing at my butt!!!!!! git away!

  10. #10
    God/dess PookaShell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Yucccckkk. Well said Embyr. I'm sorry that happens to you. *avoids Orange County*

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    guys do it because most of them look at us like we're there soley for their pleasure and they should be able to do whatever they want. "if im paying.." blah blah. f off loser. i hate those guys. even better are the ones that are like "well if you do a good job back here wink wink nudge nudge, we can get a room"

  12. #12
    Featured Member greggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    guys do it cuz they're stupid. it's that animal instinct thing where they see something they like and the go for it... and we all know that men are animals. goddamn gorillas...

  13. #13
    Veteran Member pheno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    I think a lot of men have a sense of entitlement. Why else would there be a 'joke' if they pay for dinner and a movie on a date then they 'get' to have sex with you? I've put a lot of thought into this because I've had a lot of men try to molest me in general. One of my male 'friends' (also a molesting asshole I later found out) actually told me that men try to feel me up without my consent because I've 'so friendly and nice.' (Funny enough, I'm by no means a passive person and stay aware of what's going on around me, changes in behaviour, etc.)

    Overall, I think it's a power trip combined with a sense of entitlement. I've heard that some men actually like it when you fight back because they enjoy being able to overpower the women or some sick shit like that.

    Just my $.02.
    "By 'them' do you mean people like me?"

  14. #14
    Featured Member Lyssa Lynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    They do what they can get away with. Sad thing is, if you won't put up with it "Susie Q" will. Then why keep spending on a prude stripper. Ughhh don't get me started!

  15. #15
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine
    You gotta learn how to dig your thumb into their eye socket, rugby-match style.
    Note to self: Wear goggles on meeting maxine for the first time.

  16. #16
    Featured Member greggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyssa Lynn
    They do what they can get away with. Sad thing is, if you won't put up with it "Susie Q" will. Then why keep spending on a prude stripper. Ughhh don't get me started!
    I didn't want to say it first, but it's the truth. The problem is that there's some other stripper b*tch who lets the guy get away with it, so he figures that since he can do it to her, he can do it to you. I bet if every dancer refused to let guys do it, then they would stop trying.

  17. #17
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Because since the turn of our business from show business catering to gentlemen, to sex business catering to johns, this is what we get. Our business has run off the gentlemen who used to come looking for entertainment and a show - and brought in johns who used to (some still do) frequent street hookers. It has also brought alot of the street hookers into our clubs to work out of our clubs. So the johns expect to treat us the same way they would a street hooker.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  18. #18
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Because since the turn of our business from show business catering to gentlemen, to sex business catering to johns, this is what we get. Our business has run off the gentlemen who used to come looking for entertainment and a show - and brought in johns who used to (some still do) frequent street hookers. It has also brought alot of the street hookers into our clubs to work out of our clubs. So the johns expect to treat us the same way they would a street hooker.
    You're EXACTLY right.

  19. #19
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    I don't think that you should touch street hookers without permission either.

    However, that said, there are certain kinds of contact to which consent is implied when you buy a dance. I don't mean that you can't take it back or something, but here, for example, guy can normally fondle your breasts when you dance for them. That is local standard, not just Susie Q. Ergo, when you ask them to buy a dance, permission is given to the normal modes of contact in dancing. Now you can certainly say "Would you like to buy a dance that does not involve touching my breasts?" (as some girls do) or you can ask them in the course fo the dance to stop it (as some girls do) at which point they need to stop. However I think abiding by a default position IS permission.

    Note - here the level of contact is such that groping our breasts is, actually standard. Other places it may not be, but the kinds of contact that are allowed - touched her ass, her legs, her arms, her hair whatever - are still permitted and would apply in the same way.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    I've even had guys try to do similar things OTC, for example, I went to a very nice, huge Halloween party a couple weeks ago and when I was outside about to go back inside the house, this guy reached forward and tried to grab my breast!!!! Since I've been dancing and have "gotten used to it" I reached immediately and grabbed his arm, looked him dead in the eye and said "Don't even think about it, you sick f$ck". Oh, did he walk away quickly!!!! I think for the most part, a lot of men are just a$$hole$!!!! Sometimes you can tell right away what kind of customer he'll be and then sometimes you can't, sometimes you'll be taken completley off guard. For anytime you can tell in advance, I'd dance far away from him so he can't even get near me. I've told customers on several occasions, the more you behave, the closer I'll get, the less you behave, the farther away I'll be. The usually has worked for me. If you get a guy that does it without you expecting it, and if your bouncers don't do anything about it, kick him in the balls, or flatten your hand out (like a karate chop) and karate chop him in the neck at the adams apple, you don't even have to do that hard to have him knocked over.

    Back in college, (way before I ever danced) this guy at a frat party was harrassing me and wouldn't stop. I warned him and warned him and he kept on, I was even trying to walk away from him but he wouldn't quit, so finally I said "Ok, I warned you" and then I hauled off and punched him on his cheek bone as hard as I fu$king could and it made a loud smack noise and he fell over flat on his a$$!!!! It was beautiful, I then took off running because I knew he'd come after me. The great thing was, every guy in the fraternity saw him he knocked out by a girl!!! hahahahahaha

    Anyway, I'm sorry this has happened to you, if your stupid bouncers won't do anything about it, then hurt the guy yourself.

    (P.S. If you want me to show you some techniques, let me know!!! )

  21. #21
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    The point was, Jenny, that these guys EXPECT to be able to touch street hookers, since their business IS, after all, selling literal sex. So, these guys now expect to be able to do the same to us. It's not that they are necessarily trying to molest us, it's just that they basically think of us as whores.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Gypsy14's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Yeah, it's all about our stereotype and even the classic men-dominating-women stereotype. Strippers are there to cater to men, and the men believe they should get what they can out of it. TONS of guys come into strip clubs thinking that we're prostitutes and thinking it's kind of just a formality they have to go through before getting a room with us.
    The shit like this that they pull is the reason I started taking a self-defense class... now they'd be wise not to mess with me!
    And Leogirl- I agree- ever since I started dancing, I've been MEGA bitch to any guy OTC who tries to pull that shit on me!!! In the club, I'm reasonable enough until they push me over the edge- but I have NO qualms about showing my true colors if they're trying to violate me like that when I'm just out with friends, whatever.

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Oh, Bridgette - I was kidding. I knew what you meant. Like I said - I'm not ALWAYS contentious. Sometimes I just imagine that I'm funny.

    The rest of the post was really more responding to the comment in the OP that no matter what the contact level in the bar, the guy shouldn't grope you without permission. I was just saying that, for certain kinds of groping (although certainly not all), offering the dance IS the permission. I mean I've never worked in a club in which hand-genital contact is the standard - I'd be willing to bet that constitutes "extra" pretty much everywhere. So I would think that the local norms DO matter because they inform what "permission" is granted simply by the act of buying/selling dances.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  24. #24
    Featured Member Crow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    Too much TV, not enough Mothers slaping the crap out of their little boys when they are disrespectfull.

    I do this : Trip, stumble - nearly fall.
    Me: Oh Gosh! I am sooooo sorry, did my elbow, like get you in the nose?
    My goodness. here let me help you.
    Trip, stumble -
    Me: Oh darn, clumsy me - my knee really got you good in the balls huh?

    If he continues repeat said actions till you feel better.
    In heels - everybody is a little wobbly. * sweet smile *

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Stop fingering me, dammit.

    The view from the other side of the fence FWIW.

    Firstly, most guys (80%?, 90%?) just won't regularly attend a strip venue, so you're effectively filtering the male population just by the act of them walking in. Probably a larger percentage of decent guys stay outside than come in - your clientelle automatically contains a larger percentage of assh*les than the average.

    Those that walk in will in 99% of the cases never get to meet a dancer socially OTC, so they never learn their preconceptions/stereotypes about a dancer are wrong. They walk in with them intact and they walk out with them intact.

    Part of the stereotype means they "know" the way you behave ITC is the way you behave outside of the venue as well. Ergo, the fact you take you clothes off makes you sexually promiscuous, cos most girls are far too "inhibited" to be seen naked by strangers. They fact you might be shy as hell and very slow to sleep with anyone in your real life probably never crosses their minds.

    Having come in with that mindset, they tend to have it reinforced by Lyssa Lynn's "Susie Q's" - there will always be dancers who'll push the boundaries of a clubs rules. To put in bluntly, they'll earn more money, cos the more needy customers walking in will gravitate towards them. And having found "Susie Q does it, they expect every other dancer does it.

    There's also the familiarity factor at work. I'll guess that most guys, the first time they try and go outside a dancers' boundaries, are fearful of the consequences. When they find there are no real consequences (apart from an upset dancer) they'll get bolder and bolder. For the more retarded among them, it'll become a sport - how much can I get away with with this dancer?

    The club does not have a great interest in stopping this sort of behaviour. Any business is profit motivated, and higher contact tends to put bums on seats. All the time they've got a supply of "Suzie Q's" who will allow it, they'll let it go on - it's more $$$'s on the bottom line.

    Unfortunately, as Brigette says, the striptease business is now catering to Johns not Gentlemen, and until it reverts to catering to a better class of clientelle, grabby/idiot customers are always going to be a problem.

    The only practical advice I can give from the male side of the fence is try and nip any attempts to be grabby in the bud. From what I've heard from dancers, most of them are too polite to say anything the first time a guy gets out of line - they just hope the problem will go away. Unfortuntely, in some cases the way the male mind works is "I've gotten away with that - what can I get away with next?"

    It's an ugly problem for any dancer to face - you're there to just entertain and to be seen nude, and your customer thinks you're a sexual plaything instead. How to earn money, yet keep customers inside your limits has got to be a nightmare.

    Phil.

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