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Thread: is dancing ... useless

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    Member oceana's Avatar
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    Default is dancing ... useless

    ... to me? I mean the point of going to club is to MAKE money! right?
    what if you stop making $$$?
    did this ever happened to someone?
    I guess in the States is different, but here in Toronto dancing become something different.
    it is no longer dancing - the entertainment - how you look and how you dance, and how you can entertain.
    Now it is what you do for how much! The art is gone!
    I am in transition of making it into another career, but i still need extra income and flexible schedule ... which dancing is perfect for ... to add my finances.
    ystrday I made 40$ !!! LOL!
    I know I know... another day I can make 400$ So that makes me 200$ on average...but overall I think this is very bad for dancing. I used made more money!
    I don't want to become an EXTRA'S girl....and clubs that are cleaner are full with dancers right now. so the only club i can work is this "shit hole" place. where anything goes regarding millege.
    I guess this is another rant about business. sorry.
    I do think to waiter the tables. I never done that before.... it's propably not as easy...
    I love dancing.. the way of an entertainment. I don't have problem of being naked, dance and giggle.. but when i am going to be molested for 40 bugs it really makes me thing that it is not worht it!
    thanks... for reading..
    oceana

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    Senior Member destiny2980's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Wow Ive always heard Canada is great for dancing. Its changing everywhere now. There are so many girls that are willing to be extra girls that its kindof reuined it for the rest of the girls that really enjoy the art of dancing. Most clubs are about to loose all the good girls. I know my club is about to loose about 6 or 7 of the best girls very soon because of this. Well good luck I hope your soon to be new career works out for you.

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    Veteran Member sensuality's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I think it is awesome that you won't compromise your integrity just to make more money! So kudos for that! !

    If there really isn't anywhere else you can work now, I'd say try bartending or waiting tables for a little bit. You might make more than you think. While your doing that, you can work on finding another (cleaner) club to get into so you can use your entertainment skills

    I dunno, but I hope things get better for ya!
    With all the stupid things guys will say, stay cool.

    "Her apartment is littered with soggy G-strings and cheap 8-inch heeled shoes, along with empty tubes of body glitter, mascara, prescription drugs, zit cream, Aqua Net and Polaroid pictures of her and her "friends" engaged in some drinking and dancing on St. Patrick's Day last year. " My God....

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    Veteran Member sensuality's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Oh, and there are other girls on here that work in Toronto. Maybe you could talk with them and they can help you with getting into another club? Worth a shot, anyway
    With all the stupid things guys will say, stay cool.

    "Her apartment is littered with soggy G-strings and cheap 8-inch heeled shoes, along with empty tubes of body glitter, mascara, prescription drugs, zit cream, Aqua Net and Polaroid pictures of her and her "friends" engaged in some drinking and dancing on St. Patrick's Day last year. " My God....

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I truly know what you mean. I was doing great in July,August and Septemeber and then October came and my money dropped tremedously. I'm making about $1500-$2000 less a month than I do normally. I used to be able to get VIP no problem and now it's like all the guys say: well what exactly happens back there? And I'll say something like well it all depends on how much money you spend, but all I can tell you is you'll be leaving with a smile on your face and a big wet spot in your pants. This used to work great for me and I didn't have to go into detail, they just took the idea and ran with it. Now they guys are like well how much for a blow job? Or how much for sex? It's very difficult to sell guys who are only there for sexual favors. Maybe I need to tweek my sales pitch a bit more, but there a girls who will literally go up and grab a guys dick and say, so ready for VIP? I can't do that. I feel like they should spend money on me before I give them a good time. So in many ways it seems like it isn't worth it, but overall I still make more money than I would working a normal job. So I guess I really can't complain that much. It's just so hard to go from making alot of money in three days to making mediocre money in five days. We're all so fucking spoiled aren't we. My man gets mad when I complain about it, because he says that most guys have to work 10 hours a day five days a week to make half of what I make in half the hours. I guess it could be worse.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    The problem is that the customers equate dancing with sex. They feel that any girls who will take off their clothes for money will fuck for money too.

    The clubowners are going with the trend instead of trying to preserve the entertainment facet of the business. Plus clubowners for the most part are in this business because they want the inside hookup on pussy. Many guys want to have sex with as many girls who turn them on as possible. Girls who give them that sex are sluts and undesireable for marriage though.

    Given this fact, clubowners have little incentive to return clubs to the burlesque and table dance era.

    Selling dances is a way for us to be paid, but obviously if more and more guys become disinterested in dances, our primary source of revenue is gone.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    And in Toronto, being 'molested' is kinda par for the course. (Same in this area). Boobs and butt get grabbed for 99% of dancers here. That's just the norm.

    And I agree, there is alot more offered by some girls. Not much you can do if you can't travel to work.

    Oh edited: I see you're saying that the kind of dancing is not the problem so much as doing that for $40 for the night. I hear you! If I leave with well below average $, I think "geez, I'm offering up my boobs here...that's like second base for a $20! How can that be such a hard sell?"

    And yet when guys ask "what will get? Are your dances HOT?", they think they deserve more than that for the amount. It's so offensive, but you can't choose the customers that come in, can you? I live for the gems. The ones who actually don't lift a finger, who say "incroyable", and agree that my dances are "sexy", "the best" or whatever I described them as, instead of looking at me like I cheated them.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Quote Originally Posted by sensuality
    Oh, and there are other girls on here that work in Toronto. Maybe you could talk with them and they can help you with getting into another club? Worth a shot, anyway
    Nope. Sorry, but high contact is standard in Toronto. This is the downside; we get $20 for a whole lot of action. This is what we exchange for the privilege of being in live sex trade without penetrative sex. The high contact is everywhere; there are no "clean clubs" in which it is not allowed or not standard; there are just clubs in which you might make more money. If it is something that you find really unpalatable, I would consider changing your plans and getting out before you get used to it.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Nope. Sorry, but high contact is standard in Toronto. This is the downside; we get $20 for a whole lot of action. This is what we exchange for the privilege of being in live sex trade without penetrative sex. The high contact is everywhere; there are no "clean clubs" in which it is not allowed or not standard; there are just clubs in which you might make more money. If it is something that you find really unpalatable, I would consider changing your plans and getting out before you get used to it.
    This is the same as Houston too, as it's been said on here. We aren't so much entertainers now as we are dolls. Toys for them to play with. Some can deal with it and some can't, but don't compromise your feelings if you can't. It won't be worth it.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    There is nowhere in toronto that they have 10 dollar dances,they are twenty. Most places its with boob and butt contact, some clubs are higher milage..thank god there is not alot of them yet.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Last night a couple of guys were in the club from Canada, I started dancing for theo ne guy and when he went to play with my boobs and I stopped him he looked totally shocked.
    I said "you can't touch there sweety." And he said that was the stranget thing he had heard....and passed on the dance!

    Hmmmmm




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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Welcome to Canada.. Well its only the east side thats bad, alberta and B.C just started doing private dancing recently. Quebec and Ontario have the most contact.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Quote Originally Posted by oceana
    ...did this ever happened to someone?

    I guess in the States is different, but here in Toronto dancing become something different.
    it is no longer dancing - the entertainment - how you look and how you dance, and how you can entertain.
    Now it is what you do for how much! The art is gone!

    I love dancing.. the way of an entertainment. I don't have problem of being naked, dance and giggle.. but when i am going to be molested for 40 bugs it really makes me thing that it is not worht it!
    Yes, it is very sad--I worked in a hellhole club in Daytona for a long time, trying to help create erotic art in a whorehouse, lol!!

    Actually, it really worked on rare occasions, believe it or not, but it was rare, and very tough to pull off, and very, VERY hard on the dancers otherwise--my heart went out to them...

    I am happy to be working in a place now where the biggest obstacle to the erotic artistry of the several women we have, who can really put on a stunning show--is that they are stopping constantly to get all the tip money!

    Edited to add--and they still get molested in the private dance room--the guys can touch everywhere, full nude, but not the kitty, no fingering and no BJs allowed. They are very strict about this and it's what makes the club, but as for the rest--well, it's Florida, lol...

    The comment above about dancers being sexual dolls for the customers to play with was right on the money, it's sad but true.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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    Featured Member cameronfl's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser
    I am happy to be working in a place now where the biggest obstacle to the erotic artistry of the several women we have, who can really put on a stunning show--is that they are stopping constantly to get all the tip money!

    God i wish Key West was closer!!!! I'd like work so much more if I didnt have to drive 4 freakin hours to find a good club!
    People always ask me, did I ever learn anything when I was a stripper? Yeah, I did. One man plus two beers equals 20 dollars.
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I wish it was too--sorry I missed meeting you when you were here last!
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Bottom line is that the economies of the US and Canada are both starting to hurt ... with Canada actually being a bit worse off than the USA due to the CDN$ exchange rate rising + higher taxes, which (except for energy / mining out west) has hurt many Canadian businesses and their employees. Except for the upscale 'show clubs' that cater to rich customers (and there aren't very many of these in Canada or the USA anymore), guys who are now going to average clubs have less money to spend, or will spend the same amount of money but expect a whole lot more 'mileage' in exchange. The degree of 'mileage' expected is directly proportional to the legal limits on what contact levels constitute a bustable offense, as well as the degree to which such laws are actually enforced.

    Where eastern Canada is concerned, unfortunately you have the worst of both worlds right now ... businesses in eastern Canada did a lot of exporting to the USA and have been hurt pretty badly by the exchange rate shift - clubs near the US/Canada border from Michigan / NY / Vermont / Maine draw fewer American customers due also to the exchange rate shift plus border crossing hassles - Ontario and Quebec laws covering contact levels are comparatively liberal (no political statement intended) - and Ontario and Quebec law enforcement very seldom takes an interest in 'strip clubs'.

    As I have posted about on many previous occasions, the changes in the 'strip club' industry seem to be leading to ...
    A. high earnings potential in upscale 'show clubs' that cater to rich customers, but these clubs have a million girls to choose from and typically only hire the 'hottest' dancers
    B. many girls working in average clubs who are seeing their earnings potential drop right along with the 'disposable income' of their customers are deciding to offer more 'mileage' to pursuade those customers to spend more money thus restoring their earnings potential, with little risk of being busted for it
    C. girls working in average clubs where other girls are delivering more 'mileage' are doomed to see their earnings potential evaporate to the point where a straight job with benefits would pay as much
    D. average clubs that do not permit 'high mileage' and the dancers working in such clubs are headed for bankruptcy as fewer and fewer customers bother to walk in the club's front door knowing that they're not going to get their 'money's worth' compared to a club down the street.

    Unfortunately it seems that unless guys are rich these days, they have more important things to spend their money on than watching a girl dance while sitting on their hands. If buying a bunch of private dances means that the guy has to give up a night out for dinner and a show with his wife, if buying a bunch of private dances means that the guy is going to be late making his rent / car loan / utility bill payments, etc. then that guy is going to expect a 'memorable experience' in exchange for what else he must now give up / deal with in order to afford a bunch of private dances.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    $10 sounds like a typical Montreal club. There are a few, very few, no-contact clubs, but otherwise, the standard is pretty much everywhere-but-down-there. In Toronto, make it $20, but pretty much the same deal otherwise.

    I know that this will sound weird to you, but the guy was probably pretty shocked, too, not being at all what he's used to. On the flip side, there are WAY fewer police-type problems than in most places in the U.S., so I'm not sure I'd switch, regardless.



    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive21
    I work in Idaho and a couple of weeks ago I danced for a guy that was from Canada that told me that the girls there let the guys touch them pretty much everywhere for $10 a dance or so. I was pretty shocked. I dont blame the girls oc course, but the crappy clubs and managers.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I don't think it's just in Canada. The business has changed so much since I've started dancing. Even in the last year, I feel like it's a constant struggle against customers who want as much as they can get sexually for almost nothing and when there is an abundance of really hot girls willing to do it, it is next to impossible to compete usiing just charm and a sweet set of pole tricks...Whoever said "dolls" was completely accurate and it's actually sort of creepy.....in fact lately, when I tell a guy he can't touch my boobs of crotch, he looks at me like I'm nuts or says something like " so and so lets me. " They usually don't buy anymore dances once that happpens.

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    God/dess virgoamm's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Sweety, I know it's tough, but unfortunately it is the direction our industry is shifting. It sounds like though, one of your main problems is the club you're working in right now and all of the extras that are going on. Tough it out for as long as you can, and be persistant about getting yourself into one of the topless Toronto clubs where you feel more comfortable. Plus, look at your weekly earnings instead of your daily earnings. We all have shitty nights, and it's what you pull in for the week that really matters. You said you made $400 one night, so that leads me to believe that money can be made there. If extras are as rampant as you say they are, you will have to, at the very least, allow a higher level of contact such as boob and butt grabbing to keep your head above water. Combine that with being sexy/hot, having a great personality and being a good conversationalist and you should do just fine! Well, I would hope so, anyways! Good Luck!

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    Member oceana's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Thank you all for this support.. really i didn't expect so many replies!

    So I did work today.. and strange thing happened.. The bouncer is going to check the VIP. they do that here but it is just formality.
    I was dancing for a custy with my boobs in his lap... now this is very normal for Toronto.
    I didn't notice him -- you have to stand up when he comes in..- and then when he leaves you can continue whatever you were doing.
    This time i didn't notice him, and he was: "ahem... come and see me after this..."
    shit! I was in schock, because he knows that I am not having penis out in there, you know?(he knows me well) Is he going to fire me or what? deep inside i was hopping he will so this agony is over!
    He wanted to tell that if IF some girls who saw it will ask me .I should tell them that I was in big trouble...
    Now this is the strangest thing, because in my club nobody gives a damm! so asked him why? LIKe Why? and to what he replied: that they trying to cleaned up the club( the mileage) because the police is after them like crazy!!!!
    I smell big bust comming up...
    after this the song "send me an angel" (Erasure) and "Run" from Pink flyod was played and ...
    I know this sounds crazy but but I think it's a sign....
    to run in different club.
    Now as someone mention before it is not easy to find new club... more upscale.
    *sighs*
    the "looks" deal.... I mean I never had a problem to get hired but times changed.... I have been regected before and that ... is whole new different story for me.
    I am going to reply to your posts now...
    hold on...
    oc
    "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein



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    Member oceana's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Sweety, I know it's tough, but unfortunately it is the direction our industry is shifting

    I think something has to be done about this... not just let it pass by.. we work as dancers and not prostitutes( not that anyhitng wrong with that)

    Plus, look at your weekly earnings instead of your daily earnings
    I know virgoamm it's been like this for while... and yes dancing is still more money than lots of jobs. specially if you starting something.. new business or whatever.. This is the main reason why it is so hard to quit this job..

    Unfortunately it seems that unless guys are rich these days, they have more important things to spend their money on than watching a girl dance while sitting on their hands. If buying a bunch of private dances means that the guy has to give up a night out for ....
    You are right Melonie, and I agree with your views. I also would like to add that some guys are not keen on lap dancing at all. they want to see the entertainment part. I know men who stoped going to strip club after the major lap dancing burst in... they just don't want it.. some even feel guilty after going home with cum in thier pants...(excs me)

    I do blame the club owners managents (at least here in Toronto) who are there sollely for thier interests to make$$$$ and more$$$$ and more$$$$ andf hold on! I forgot more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    they stuff whoever girls kinda almost from the streets or massage parlours who
    as long as they have many many many gilrs to make $ from them...Then when is 60-80 or even more gilrs on the floor That's how the milleage starts. if there is more gilrs than customers..
    some of these gilrs have pimps (i feel sorry for them) and they have to make the first 500$ that goes to him... so to make money in this mess they have to make at least 1000$

    Anyway... thank you all for supporting me in staying true to myself.
    oc
    "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein



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    Senior Member IsabellaRouma's Avatar
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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I was at a Hustler Club in NYC with my sugar daddy once and we got a dancer and a private room for like and hour or so.... and I was stunned by how much touching she let him do... I mean nipple sucking and pinching, kissing, etc. It was all pretty gross... Granted he was tipping very well, but I kinda said to her "Hey sweetie, I'm a dancer too so don't definitely let me/him/us know if you're not okay with something." Also granted we spent like 2 grand on the chick, but I can guarantee he would have spent the same amount WITHOUT the overly high contact. I even said to her before we went in, "hey I'm a dancer too so I'd like for you to go home with as much money as possible tonight so just have fun!" I didn't get it... Don't know if it was just an NYC thing or what, but it kinda grossed me out.

    Yeah dancers are becoming dolls to be played with, but whose fault is that? I know I'm not F***ing having it. Managers ought to do a better job of putting their feet down, but so do dancers. I mean seriously, if I wanted to rent my body, I'd be an escort. That's that part I don't get... why don't the ones who don't mind the uber high contact just work as escorts or private viewing girls?

    Anywho, I'll guess I'll never work in Canada!
    "Emancipate Yourselves From Mental Slavery; None but Ourselves Can Free Our Minds." ~Bob Marley

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    D. average clubs that do not permit 'high mileage' and the dancers working in such clubs are headed for bankruptcy as fewer and fewer customers bother to walk in the club's front door knowing that they're not going to get their 'money's worth' compared to a club down the street.
    I think this one is especially true in the northeast cities.
    "I came in like a lamb, but I intend to leave like a lion."

    -Sade
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    Finger pointing is awesome!! No really, it gets things done.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    I know this thread is a little bit old but i was just wondering why no one from across the pond or aussie has mentioned anything as far as how touchie dancing is over there.

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    Default Re: is dancing ... useless

    Stay tuned... I have a plan to turn around the exotic dance industry. My idea is as industry changing as the lap dance was.

    I'm not saying anything more here on a public forum.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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