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Thread: honesty about taxes

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    Default honesty about taxes

    Im wondering, when u girls make your taxes do u guys really claim what u make?
    does any one ever say they made $40k instead of$100k a year? or are most dancers really honest about what they make when it comes to taxes?

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    good luck finding anyone to say they cheat on their taxes. Obviously it's done, but hopefully they have enough sense to keep their mouths shut.
    Last edited by Emily; 11-21-2006 at 02:22 AM. Reason: spelling

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    God/dess JustJayda's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    ^^^^^THANK YOU for issuing that gag order, before this fookin' kid has us talking to the federalies!

    Fongul!!!(sp?)

    We're not mafia, we're a sanitation/construction company, don't ask too many questions my friend!
    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    Oh, and nope, rubbing titties isn't air dancing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    The cut-off age for stripping is when customers stop paying you.

    The end.

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    God/dess Chrissy68's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJayda
    ^^^^^THANK YOU for issuing that gag order, before this fookin' kid has us talking to the federalies!

    Fongul!!!(sp?)

    We're not mafia, we're a sanitation/construction company, don't ask too many questions my friend!
    bahahahaha

    Love it!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    as I have posted about a million times so far ...

    In today's networked computer age, combined with greatly increased levels of gov't information sharing and automatic reporting requirements on banks and investment houses, the IRS is now watching both sides of everybody's financial equation .... how much money they SAY that they are earning ... versus how much money they are actually spending / saving / investing ! If given any sort of reason to go looking, or 'at random', the IRS can readily access the 'electronic paper trail' of how much money a person is spending on mortgage payments, car payments, credit card payments, large cash transactions etc., and if the amount being spent doesn't jive with the amount the person reported as income and paid taxes on, expect an IRS audit real soon !

    Basically, any income that is not reported to the IRS does not officially exist in the eyes of financial institutions. This means that if someone underreports their income at $25k a year when they're really earning $75k a year, if they attempt to finance a house or a car they'll be treated like they earn $25k. Any attempt to pay large amounts of cash to purchase say a house or a car or anything costing over $3000/$10000 will be reported to the IRS by the state property title agency or the state motor vehicle bureau or by the merchant. Even if you spend large amounts on college tuition, this will also be reported to the IRS by the bursar's office and/or gov't grant agencies.

    Thus, in reality, anybody trying to 'fly below the radar' may wind up with a bunch of cash in their mattress ... but cash they can't really spend on anything meaningful without official questions being raised as to where that cash came from. This is an outgrowth of terrorist anti-money laundering laws enacted after 9/11 - but it also is a very effective 'enforcement tool' for the IRS in general.

    Bottom line here is that if you want to build any sort of a financial future for yourself, you have to report your income and pay taxes on it. Not doing so, even if you are lucky enough not to be caught, ultimately means that the only places that you can actually spend that cash from your mattress without attracting unwanted IRS attention is Louis Vuitton purses, big screen TV's, illegal substances etc.

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    ^^^ Here here!!!

    I'm not going to advocate cheating your taxes. Why bother or take that risk?

    Take it from me, anyone who bothers to learn and understand about taxes (and you will be forced to pay them, so you might as well get a grounding in the subject) will soon learn that there are 1001 ways to legally reduce your tax bill. Why not get creative and start using some deductions? If you are spending the money anyway, why not spend it in a tax friendly manner?

    As I can tell, almost every dancer is self employed, so you all have the opportunity to do some of these things and find some legal deductions. If you were employed it would be different...

    To answer your specific question though, anyone who reports $40k but earns $100k is likely to get found out by their outrageous spending (as Melonie mentions above). Frankly, such a person deserves an audit for not even being creative. If they were earning $100k but reporting $90-95k they could probably get away with such an activity for years. And the savings would be at their top rate of tax. But it would still be illegal, so they shouldn't do it.

  7. #7
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    I am not going to discuss my financial business, but I will say that I am the type of worry-wart who likes to follow the rules to be safe-not-sorry(lol got that idea from my parents). But you asked for advice, so I will tell you about some annonymous people and what they do.

    There's this one guy who is a client at the insurance office I work at. He is self-employed and pays his car insurance in-person with cash at the office. He told me that it is less money that the IRS will see associated with him.

    And then there is my former dancer friend and her boyfriend that lived with her. Neither of these "fine outstanding members of society" had a bank account or any kind of credit history(other than medical collections, which are nothing but BAD). So they would pay everything with cash: their utilities(at check cashing places), their rent(in person), their cab fare, their groceries. But they didn't have a car, loans, or anything sophisticated that required paying with check or creating a paper trail. As you probably guessed, they did NOT ever report taxes.

    Point is, if you pay for things with cash, they are not traceable and the IRS will not know that you've made that money. However, things that are traceable include: bank account deposits, credit card payments, loan payments, state-regulated things like driver's license fees or car registration. Even if you pay your credit card or loan with cash(for example, I pay my car loan with cash in-person at the branch office of the bank it's financed with), it still leaves a paper trail for the IRS(that's why I have to report my car loan's cash payments on my tax return!). There are not many things that you can both pay for with cash, and avoid a paper trail. Sure, you can live as my friend and boyfriend lived and avoid paying taxes with little probability of getting caught, but do you really want to do that? Wouldn't it be better to have the freedom of getting car loans for that expensive car you like, or student loans for college, and then pay taxes on the income used for paying these off? Wouldn't it be better to report a more accurate amount on your tax return, so that you qualify for better mortgages and loan rates?(what Melonie said is right...if you report $25K, you will get treated as if you make $25K and less people will want to give you a mortgage)

  8. #8
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    One last thing...I know of TWO people who are in trouble with the IRS right now! The one is someone who filed a tax extension a few years ago but then forgot to make the payment(she was very busy at the time with school and work and stuff). She would normally pay bills with money orders to avoid the chance of a check bouncing, but then she got busy so it was easier for her to pay bills with checks...as soon as she started depositing money into her checking account again, the IRS freezed her acccount and stole all her money out of it. Not to mention that a lien looks really bad on credit reports. She was not notified of this, and as a result, all of the checks that she'd written bounced.

    Then there is someone else, who actually PAID his taxes but the IRS is claiming that he owes all this money PLUS tons of money in penalties. He's never paid taxes late, and has had all-around great credit for some 30yrs or so. He did nothing wrong and is in a big time-consuming enbittered fight with the IRS, because he wants the bill and penalty fees dropped. It could also be possible that maybe his accountant screwed up and didn't send out his tax payment on time? Either way, this person is going through hell for something wrong he didn't do...so imagine how much hell someone who purposely DIDN'T pay their taxes must be going through?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    ^^^ which reminds me of a couple of instances I know of where dancers have previously gotten in trouble with the IRS. The issue involved is the fact that while the IRS can't positively prove how much money you did or didn't earn as an independent contractor, the dancer has exactly the same problem being unable to positively prove that she didn't actually earn as much money as the IRS 'estimates' she did. One concerned a particular club where the clubowners wound up being the subject of an IRS / criminal investigation. In the process, the IRS got hold of the club's file of dancer's job applications (with real names, real addresses and real Social Security numbers) as well as the club's file of dancer work schedules. (I'm assuming) this led to an IRS check of their own database of tax returns, which turned up a list of dancers working for that club who did report their incomes, another list of dancers working at that club that were 'anemic' in reporting their incomes, as well as a few girls for which no tax returns could be found. Based on the average earnings reported by dancers who did report their incomes, in conjunction with the work schedules, the IRS was able to 'estimate' the probable earnings of those girls that reported an 'anemic' level of earnings, as well as to 'estimate' the probable earnings for girls that had not filed tax returns. In the process, it turned out that most of the girls who had correctly reported their incomes were also high earners. This established an 'average earnings per shift' dollar value that reflected the actual earnings of the higher earning girls. The IRS than applied the same 'average earnings per shift' to all of the other dancers ....

    Bottom line was that some girls who were actually earning say $300 a night, but who didn't correctly report their earnings to the IRS, wound up being handed tax bills based on 'estimated' earnings of $500 per night instead ! Had these girls correctly and consistently reported their income at a $300 per night earnings level, the IRS would probably not have disputed it. However, by failing to report their incomes correctly, and lacking the documentation to prove how much money they did (or in this case didn't) actually earn, they were 'stuck' paying taxes on money they didn't actually earn based on the IRS 'estimates' that they had no way to disprove !

    Another recently publicized subject was a couple of dancers who put down sizeable down payments in cash to purchase relatively expensive new cars, which of course were then registered with the state motor vehicle agency and automatically reported to the IRS. Again (I'm assuming) the IRS checked their own database re previous tax returns filed by these dancers, and discovered that with their reported incomes, minus the IRS database's average cost of living for people living in their zip code, that there was no way these dancers would have had enough money left over to afford saving up the down payments or to afford making the monthly car payments they had just taken on. This led to further investigation i.e. credit card transaction records, bank transaction records etc. which also showed that the amount of cash being spent and/or deposited couldn't possibly have happened if the girls' reported incomes had been accurate. The IRS then 'estimated' an actual income level that would have been necessary to jive with the car purchase/loan + bank deposits + credit card statements + average cost of living in their zip code area, and sent the dancers a whopping back tax bill based on that 'estimated' income level (with interest and penalties).

    You're also absolutely correct that if the IRS gets pissed off, they can 'freeze' money in all bank / investment / retirement accounts, and if necessary can seize every asset that a person owns i.e. houses, cars, jewelry, appliances which can then be sold at auction to recoup the amounts the IRS 'estimates' that are owed in back taxes. You cannot go bankrupt on the IRS. If they have a reason to ever get on your 'ass' (and this could be as basic as your name being picked at random for auditing ... the IRS typically does random audits on 1-2% of taxpayers every year), they will not get off your 'ass' until you pay them the money they 'estimate' that you owe, or you manage to go to tax court and win (not likely), or you reach a settlement agreement with the IRS. And along those lines, be aware that the US congress just appropriated money for the express purpose of allowing the IRS to hire more agents in order to begin a focused tax investigation / enforcement program aimed at 'adult businesses' (and strip clubs are considered to be adult businesses) !
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-21-2006 at 11:29 AM.

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Good point. I can't speak for the US, but I'm sure many of these agencies speak to each other around the world ... I recall a report in the UK that a very large % of tax dodgers who were caught were actually caught by their method of transport.

    You know the idea. Someone is pulled over for speeding in a Mercedes and the police check at the side of the road shows they are unemployed and have zero income. That starts an investigation in the background which leads to undercover social security surveillance which establishes that he has a company, is defrauding the taxman, the DSS and has lied on all sorts of loan/social security/government forms. After much investigation this all ends up as a large fine, a short spell at 'Her Majesty's Pleasure' and being banned from being a company director.

    Is that worth the money saved?

  11. #11
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Melonie, it does seem likely that the higher earners of the club were the few girls that had accurately reported their income on their taxes...it's because they made enough money(you said $500/shift, but these numbers coulda been hypothetical) to survive on, splurge, AND pay taxes! For the girls who maybe only made say $200/shift, of course they would be more likely to avoid paying taxes. They're probably already bitter that they have less money to spend on luxuries than the people making over twice as much as them, but then to have to pay taxes on top of that? Also, the girls who were the top earners were probably also girls who were responsible/serious dancers, and had been in the business long enough to know how much of a risk it is to fuck with the IRS.

    But what if the IRS pointed out a so-called "anemic"(tax-wise) dancer who was actually paying the full amount on her taxes? For example, a girl who was a terrible hustler and made little to no money(those rare few dancers do exist), reported all that she had, but her reported earned income looked "shady" because it was so meager compared to the other girls? That would suck for her...big time. (Another example of how people who don't make much money seem to get ripped off a lot in society, but that's a different issue altogether) I know that the IRS would be reasonable in their judgment, and that a girl like the one I described is often more the exception than the norm...I'm just saying that it would be tough luck and it'd really suck.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    ^ Well, it probably wouldn't happen if she's making deposits and living within her means. I mean, if she's making $30,000 a year and reporting to make $30,000 a year and living like she's making $30,000 a year...they're not going to question it.

    If she's making $100,000 a year, living like she's making $100,000 a year, but only reporting $30,000 a year...THEN they'll get in trouble.

    But, I don't think a dancer who is making "less" money in a club is necessarily going to get in trouble for reporting her full "meager" earnings as long as she's not living as someone who is making more but not reporting the full income.

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Yeah, I'm not following, PD1982. Rich people are equally (maybe more) bitter about paying taxes than poor people because their tax rate is disportionately higher. it's not like someone is saying, "wow, I made $100k...what am I going to do with all this? Yeah, pay taxes!"

    You make $200/shift seem like peanuts. That's over $50k per year if you work 5 nights per week. People are living quite comfortably on that while paying taxes. The girls that are not paying taxes aren't doing so because they make shit money. They aren't doing so because they think they can get away with it....or they've been doing it so long they have fucked themselves because they have to stay under the radar or pay huge consequences.

    Besides, who is actually putting that they are strippers on their taxes? I say I'm a free lance entertainer. For all they know, I'm a clown at birthday parties.

  14. #14
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    VenusGoddess, what I meant was in reference to the specific situation of the club that Melonie had described. She said that the IRS checked records for each girl with an application & schedule at the strip club, and that the girls who had the most complete(and assumingly most accurate) tax return were the top earners making $500/night. She also said that the IRS started charging all of the "anemic" dancers who had actually made $300/night, taxes on the assumption that they'd made $500/night(even though they really didn't). So these girls actually got overtaxed, because there was no way to prove that they DIDN'T make $500/night.

    What I'm saying is, what if there was someone who only made say $100/night and paid taxes accurately, but the IRS didn't "believe" this girl's $100/night earnings to be true, because they were so much lower than the average for the club? Yeah, if the girl lived within her means and avoided "luxury" items, that might show the lifestyle of someone making $100/night(aka ~$20,000-$26,000/yr), but how many people SERIOUSLY live within their means? As responsible as I am with bills, I sure as hell didn't in the past. When I first started dancing, I spent like 90% of my wages on paying down bills & credit cards(more than the minimum) and barely anything on my own living expenses or things that I really needed(like medical coverage, 3 square meals, etc). If you looked at the money reported vs. expenditures for the first few months of dancing, it'd look pretty suspicious that I was spending say, a few grand per month on paying down debt and other obligations(tickets, past due car repair bills, money owed to people, etc.), had no money put towards rent, and barely any money spent on important things like sufficient food, medical care, or reliable transportation; you might even begin to think that I spent unreported cash on things like food or rent. But in reality, I was purposely staying with a friend and also depriving myself, because I was hellbent on paying back debt and pleasing other people more than taking care of myself. THAT'S the kind of example that I'm referring to. (I made more than $100/night, but I'm just making an example about how my spending habits were misleading as to how much money I might have really made.)

    Another example would be, if the girl who made $100/night but constantly lived beyond her means with luxury items. As in, setting aside money for taxes(or maybe just waiting until the early part of the next year to save up the money for taxes, since taxes aren't due until April if you pay yearly), and then spending most of her money on things that she cannot essentially afford(Louis Vutton purses, plasma TV, etc) because she has things like credit cards or the choice to default on bills/payments(not a good choice!). It wouldn't look plausible for someone making $20-25,000 to spend say, $3000 on a TV! But it happens.

    I guess what my original point is, is that Melonie was right to say that it sucks when the IRS gets involved and "estimates" what your income is. When the IRS estimates your income, and that estimate is actually much higher than what you actually earned, it would be extremely difficult to prove that you didn't actually make the amount that the IRS estimated. So in most cases, you would end up either owing more tax money than you're supposed to, or paying extra taxes when you already paid your taxes. What I'm saying is, the IRS isn't perfect or all-knowing, so it's possible for them to make a mistake(such as overestimating what they assumed your earned income was) and it screwing you over.

  15. #15
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    Yeah, I'm not following, PD1982. Rich people are equally (maybe more) bitter about paying taxes than poor people because their tax rate is disportionately higher. it's not like someone is saying, "wow, I made $100k...what am I going to do with all this? Yeah, pay taxes!"
    OK true enough, good point. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who was making much less than $200/night, to the point that they were making an income that was barely big enough to survive on. I was looking at it from the viewpoint of someone who was in a field making a lot less than $200/night, to the point that they could barely afford to keep an apartment but then had to pay taxes on top of that(for example, a restaurant hostess making shitty money who might be getting paid in the form of pure cash at her restaurant...I know of a few restaurants that pay their workers that way; she would have to report taxes on that). Most people would probably rather pay for food and a roof over their head but default on their taxes, than pay their taxes up-to-date but risk facing eviction. But you're right, $200/night is enough to live on(even if it's less than the people making more money than that).

  16. #16
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyDancer1982
    What I'm saying is, what if there was someone who only made say $100/night and paid taxes accurately, but the IRS didn't "believe" this girl's $100/night earnings to be true, because they were so much lower than the average for the club? Yeah, if the girl lived within her means and avoided "luxury" items, that might show the lifestyle of someone making $100/night(aka ~$20,000-$26,000/yr), but how many people SERIOUSLY live within their means? As responsible as I am with bills, I sure as hell didn't in the past. When I first started dancing, I spent like 90% of my wages on paying down bills & credit cards(more than the minimum) and barely anything on my own living expenses or things that I really needed(like medical coverage, 3 square meals, etc). If you looked at the money reported vs. expenditures for the first few months of dancing, it'd look pretty suspicious that I was spending say, a few grand per month on paying down debt and other obligations(tickets, past due car repair bills, money owed to people, etc.), had no money put towards rent, and barely any money spent on important things like sufficient food, medical care, or reliable transportation; you might even begin to think that I spent unreported cash on things like food or rent. But in reality, I was purposely staying with a friend and also depriving myself, because I was hellbent on paying back debt and pleasing other people more than taking care of myself. THAT'S the kind of example that I'm referring to. (I made more than $100/night, but I'm just making an example about how my spending habits were misleading as to how much money I might have really made.)
    You misunderstood what I was saying. Living within their means means not living the life of a person who brings home $100,000 and claiming $30,000. Credit card debt? Yes. Car payments? Yes. On and on...BUT, they should not be living in a $300,000 condo and driving a brand new Mercedes if they are truly making only $30,000 a year. That is what I meant by living within means. If the IRS pulls a dancers spending habits and sees that while she has a car payment, a rent payment, etc...and that they are within the "means" of living on $30,000 a year...then she won't have many problems. If she's got tons of money in savings, spending like a fiend and has an expensive condo/car...then they'll be less likely to believe that its just "over-spending". You can overspend...but only so much. You cannot make $30,000 a year and live like a Rock Star. And, that is all I meant.

  17. #17
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    OK true enough, good point. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who was making much less than $200/night, to the point that they were making an income that was barely big enough to survive on. I was looking at it from the viewpoint of someone who was in a field making a lot less than $200/night, to the point that they could barely afford to keep an apartment but then had to pay taxes on top of that(for example, a restaurant hostess making shitty money who might be getting paid in the form of pure cash at her restaurant...I know of a few restaurants that pay their workers that way; she would have to report taxes on that). Most people would probably rather pay for food and a roof over their head but default on their taxes, than pay their taxes up-to-date but risk facing eviction. But you're right, $200/night is enough to live on(even if it's less than the people making more money than that)

    Two points - #1 if the $200 a night dancer had consistently reported and paid taxes on her $200 a night = say $40,000 annual income, and if the $200 a night dancer's 'paper trail' i.e. bank deposits, credit card statements, car/rent payments were consistent with a $40,000 actual income minus the typical cost of living in her zip code area, then odds are the IRS would readily accept the premise that she really does earn $200 a night. On the other hand, if the $200 a night dancer had failed to report her income altogether, then the IRS is essentially free to 'estimate' whatever value they choose to ... with the problem / responsibility of disproving the IRS 'estimate' then falling to that dancer. The dancer might very well be able to do this eventually if she really was only earning $200 a night and if her credit card statements, bank statements, rent/car payments etc. all jive with that level of income - but she'll probably have to deal with the tax court to do so (meaning extra legal and accounting fees). However, if the IRS adds up her bank deposits/withdrawls plus retirement / investment account contributions plus credit card expenditures plus rent/car payments + typical cost of living in the dancer's zip code area, and if that total comes up to something resembling $60k-$80k-$100k instead of $40k, it's time to break out the Preparation H (for non-US readers, this is a popular hemorroid cream) !!! This is exactly what happened to some of the dancers in my example who were reporting 'anemic' levels of dancing earnings to the IRS, but who were spending / saving at levels matching their true earnings.

    #2 - all independent contractor dancers are required to file and pay estimated taxes every three months. Thus any dancer who fails to do so, even though she personally feels that she may have 'good reason' to stiff the IRS in favor of paying down overdue bills etc., is providing 'proof' to the IRS that she's already chosen to wilfully break the tax law. When a situation arises where the IRS must choose whether or not to give a $200 a night reported income the 'benefit of the doubt' i.e. accept that value as realistic vs. initiating further investigation based on suspicion that the $200 a night is 'anemic', a history of non-payment of estimated taxes would definitely factor into that choice.

    I'll even throw in a third point based on your question about dancers who truly only earn only $100 a night or whatever. In the USA, other than the 15.3% self-employment / medicare tax, independent contractors don't actually have to pay any additional income taxes until their earnings level exceeds about $30,000 a year. In fact, in some states and under some personal situations, they may be eligible for tax credits i.e. higher earning taxpayers' money being 'given' to them as a subsidy ! It's just plain nuts for a low earning dancer not to report her income because the negative risks she's taking are in exchange for only a few thousand dollars worth of 'evaded' taxes ! Of course there IS an overriding reason that some low earning dancers choose to do this - so that they can claim that they are officially unemployed and thus successfully apply for and receive social welfare benefits, which a $30,000 annual income would disqualify them from receiving. But with the recent welfare fraud crackdowns, doing this now involves an incredibly high level of risk - if caught she'll not only owe back taxes but also must pay back all 'fraudulently obtained' social welfare benefits plus the risk that local courts/gov't will decide to make her a public example to others i.e. a few weeks/months in the county lockup for 'fraud'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-23-2006 at 02:38 AM.

  18. #18
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Thanks for the helpful info, Melonie. I guess what I meant to say, was that at one time when I first started dancing, I was spending $1000s on debt at a time that I didn't even have my own place nor could afford living expenses(was living with a friend). If you took my reported earnings and subtracted my debt payments from that, you'd be at barely above zero; if you took my reported earnings and subtracted my debt payments AND the "average living expenses for my zip code"(which was obviously more than I was spending on living expenses at the time), you'd be at a negative number. (During this time, I was searching for apartments. I put nearly all my money into paying off debt, in an effort to improve my credit rating because I realized that without good credit, no apartment would rent to me anyway.) My situation though isn't that much of a problem...cause I made enough money during the rest of that year to overcompensate. Plus, two months into dancing, I DID finally move out on my own and set up utility(electric, internet, etc) accounts in my name. So for the time period that I spent beyond my means and didn't show any living expenses(because there barely were any!!), was short-lasted and compensated for later on.


    Even if a dancer *is* only making $100/night(i.e., $20-25,000/yr income), WHY would she want to claim welfare? Wouldn't she have more self-respect than that? I mean, $25K/yr isn't a good income(less than the national average), but it's enough to survive on! Even when I was making $200/week shit income at a stupid retail job, I never took on food stamps...and that's when I needed it most! I think the only charity I ever took was a one-time charity write-off on a medical bill, but that's because the hospital unfairly overinflated the bill for something very small, and I really WAS in a destitute state at that time and didn't want a $3500 medical collections ruining my credit when I was unemployed at the time and claiming $5000 gross income on that year's tax return. Even then, I felt silly and feeble by applying for that charity write-off. Sorry, I just don't understand how some people try to be freeloaders!

  19. #19
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    EDIT to my above post: Hopefully my story about the medical charity write-off didn't make me look like a hypocrite. What I meant to say is, I woulda had no problem paying the medical bill if it'd been more inline with their real expenses(I am fully aware that hospitals overinflate bills for uninsured cash-paying patients to very unfair levels). Also, it is one thing to dish out $50/week on groceries from a $200 paycheck...but it is another to dish out $3500 for a medical bill. Also, I had been feeling spiteful because I didn't feel like I had reason to go to the hospital, but the ignorant/rude nurses refused to give me any helpful info and just blew me off by saying, "Go to the ER, go to the ER." When I went to the ER(against my best judgment), all the doctor could do was tell me that I was fine...yet that was enough to rack up a $3500 bill. Hopefully that explains some things about the situation. I just didn't want you guys thinking that I was a hypocrite who finds reason to freeload. And if someone really IS destitute and can't afford food+shelter, then welfare IS for them...I guess what I was talking about, were the people who make $25K/yr and CAN afford food+shelter, but simply don't want to pay for it if they can get the gov't to pay for it instead.

  20. #20
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Even if a dancer *is* only making $100/night(i.e., $20-25,000/yr income), WHY would she want to claim welfare? Wouldn't she have more self-respect than that? I mean, $25K/yr isn't a good income(less than the national average), but it's enough to survive on! Even when I was making $200/week shit income at a stupid retail job, I never took on food stamps
    Basically, because of all of the other social welfare benefit programs that stem from being below that same 'official income' eligibility threshold. For example, in my state of NY, signing up for welfare/food stamps will get you food/vouchers worth about $50 a week. Once you are eligible for that program, the welfare dep't will sign you up for medicaid i.e. 100% free health insurance coverage. They will also sign you up for HEAP (which pays about 50% of your winter heating bills), subsidized rent (which pre-pays a portion of your rent payment - i.e. someone with a $20k 'official income' might be able to rent a $600 a month apartment for $200 out of pocket with the state agency picking up the remaining $400 via direct payment to the landlord). When you stop and add up the 'equivalent cash value' versus having to pay 'regular prices' for all of these things out of your own earnings, and especially having to pay with AFTER-TAX dollars, there's a whole lot of financial incentive for 'marginal' dancers to 'forget' about reporting their true incomes thus being eligible for these benefits.

    Of course if that 'marginal' dancer also has a kid or two, then you're talking about receiving a monthly welfare check worth several hundred dollars + lots more free food + free medicaid insurance for her children as well as for herself, on top of all the other social program benefits. In that sort of scenario, the difference between declaring and paying taxes on a $40k dancing income, versus claiming that they are officially 'unemployed' and reporting zero income, probably translates into an annual cash in the pocket difference of $10k in avoided Fed/state/SSI income taxes, plus another $5k in the form of gov't welfare checks, plus another $5k in the form of subsidized rent & utility bills, plus the equivalent cash value of the 100% medical coverage + subsidized / free food.

    Of course, with recent efforts to seriously step up investigations / enforcement on 'welfare cheats' as a part of NY state election year politics, there have been some recent instances of dancers being 'caught'. This has resulted not only in back income taxes on previously undeclared dancing income, but has also resulted in having to pay back the cash value of social welfare benefits they 'fraudulently' collected, as well as a felony bust for 'defrauding the gov't' with associated stiff fines and legal fees - as well as child custody challenges from the state i.e 'unfit mother'.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-26-2006 at 03:55 PM.

  21. #21
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Thanks for explaining about social program benefits, Melonie.

    I don't know though...if I were a dancer(or someone in ANY kind of job field), I would try so hard to avoid taking social program benefits. Maybe I just have too much pride/dignity. I remember when I was in college and was struggling to get food in my stomach, and this asshole short-lived boyfriend made fun of me for not having a good job/internship, working dead-end jobs(I didn't have a choice; at the time, I looked but couldn't get hired anywhere better), and basically being poor. He made snide comments such as "go along and cash your food stamps!" Those kinda comments angered me so much, that I was determined NOT to go on food stamps or welfare. Even when I WAS impoverished, making only $200/week and being independent on most of my bills, I felt that it'd be shameful to apply for Welfare. Hells, one of the reasons that I started dancing, was to become independent so I could avoid depending on Welfare, and also so I could avoid becomming delinquent on bills/credit. I worked crazy hours when I first started dancing...I basically did anything(legal, legit) that it took to make enough money so that I didn't need Welfare. Sure, I coulda paid everything in cash and tried to avoid reporting income on taxes in order to claim an extra $800/month in social benefits, but why? So I could be exactly what I did not want to be, essentially proving that kid's mean comments to be correct?

    I wrote on the Stripping(General) board about my friend who had a mooching ex-boyfriend. That same ex-boyfriend of hers got into an argument with me before, because I was telling them about how expensive healthcare is. He retorted that I should try to go on Medicaid, and claimed that even rich people cheat the system to get Welfare and Medicaid! I was like "fuck that!" and thought badly of him ever since(actually, I'd been thinking badly of him for a while by that point).

    I think a lot of people are either lazy or don't care enough to be independent/self-sufficient. It's really annoying.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    I think a lot of people are either lazy or don't care enough to be independent/self-sufficient. It's really annoying.
    Actually, I think that it has more to do with today's 'something for nothing' + 'if you weren't caught then you weren't committing a crime' attitude. And yes it is annoying on several levels. How many girls can you think of in typical club dressing rooms who are knocking down at least $1000 a week in dancing earnings, declaring no income and paying no taxes, plus knocking down $1000+ per month in gov't benefits !!! They do this knowing that, given the typical incompetence of local gov't agencies in double-checking anything, the 'bureaucratic inertia' of the IRS translating into a de-facto situation where a person who has never filed and paid income tax is far less likely to be audited than a person who HAS previously filed and paid income tax etc. resulting in long odds that they will ever be caught as long as they don't send up any red flags through their own actions (i.e. making large cash transactions, buying a house / car / anything costing over $3000, sizeable bank accounts / credit card accounts / investment accounts etc.). Being signed up for gov't benefits actually serves to reduce the odds of an IRS / state tax audit, since discovering a problem would bring down S#!t on the heads of federal / state / local gov't employees who approved those fraudulent benefit applications !!!!

    However, whether this is viewed as fortunate or unfortunate, with each passing year the 'expenditures' side of everyone's personal finances is becoming subject to tighter and tighter automatic reporting requirements. Eventually, if you spend unreported income, you will be caught. And eventually, because of increased IRS cross-checking between (some examples which are 'close to home') a strip club owner who has beefs with a credit card company and dancers working for that same club, 'brain damaged' dancers working at a club who have generated IRS 'red flags' due to high spending levels of unreported cash versus other dancers working for that same club, 'fraudulent' dancers working at a club who have been caught cheating the state social welfare system versus other dancers working for that same club etc., IRS attention drawn to others who are 'close' to you can wind up causing IRS attention to be directed towards yourself as well, even if you have successfully avoided generating any IRS 'red flags' through your own actions.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-27-2006 at 07:43 AM.

  23. #23
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Yes, and what also sucks is that during the time that I was making $200/week prior to dancing, I had a significant portion of taxes taken out of these already-meager paychecks...and to think that part of the reason my taxes were high, was to make up for all of the $1000/week strippers leeching social benefits!

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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    ^^^ I hear you loud and clear on that one, PhillyDancer ! That's why I always got doubly pissed off whenever I heard dancers discussing food stamps / welfare checks / subsidized housing etc. in the dressing room. Not only are these girls causing my own and every other law abiding taxpayer's tax rates to be higher than they would otherwise need to be if these girls were actually paying any taxes on their dancing earnings, but they're administering a 'double whammy' by further increasing my tax rates in order to finance their food stamps / welfare checks / housing subsidies !!!

    Thus while I personally don't wish anyone ill, I can say in all honesty that when I heard about two dancers being indibted for welfare fraud and then being hit with monster IRS bills for back taxes due on several years' worth of unreported income on top of getting billed by the state agencies for repayment of several years worth of 'fraudulently' obtained social welfare benefits, I did not shed one tear for them. All I can hope is that the publicity generated over their indibtments and IRS problems made some other girls think twice before deciding to follow a similar course.

    As I have posted many times, with every passing year the automatic financial information reporting system being established and expanded by the IRS makes it easier and easier for the IRS computers to track the total amount of money that people are spending. From the IRS' standpoint, this is much more useful (i.e. more difficult to cheat on) than automatic financial information reporting re the total amount of money that people are earning (where it is in the benefit of both the 'worker' as well as the 'business' they work for to minimize reported amounts). The terrorist anti-money-laundering laws have only accelerated the automatic tracking of money on the expenditure side. As a result, before long (and perhaps right now, thanks to the IRS's new 'adult business' tax enforcement unit) it will become virtually impossible for an individual to spend / invest / save significant amounts of 'undeclared' money without the IRS and state tax agencies knocking on their door in short order asking where this 'undeclared' money came from, as well as dropping off a whopping big 'estimated' back tax bill on that 'undeclared' income.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-27-2006 at 06:08 PM.

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    Default Re: honesty about taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyDancer1982 View Post
    and to think that part of the reason my taxes were high, was to make up for all of the $1000/week strippers leeching social benefits!
    any dancer who is not being 100% honest in reporting her income is leeching social benefits. Keeping money for yourself and not telling the IRS about it isn't really that much different than getting a check you don't deserve....and that pretty much applies to every dancer. Probably even you. So don't get too high up on that horse.

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