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Thread: "Apocolypto"

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    God/dess Vyanka's Avatar
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    Default "Apocolypto"

    Hope I spelled it right.

    Anyone see this movie?


    Saw last night, it was pretty good. But man, was it gory.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    I dont know if I can support Mel Gibson after his anti semitic remarks.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
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    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
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  3. #3
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    The Mayans were gory folk. I'm hoping to see reviews on this.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk View Post
    I dont know if I can support Mel Gibson after his anti semitic remarks.
    I don't agree with it either. But putting him aside, it was a good movie.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    The Mayans were gory folk. I'm hoping to see reviews on this.
    Yeah, that shit was bogus. It almost became too much for me to handle. lol. I was about to walk out of the theatre at one point.

  6. #6
    Tart
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    it is the most intense film I have ever fucking seen! Great film . everyone was having to turn their heads at some point during it

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    I heard it's a good film but I'm not in any hurry to go see it.

  8. #8
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Somehow I doubt I'll have a problem with the film gore...

    (Purepecha People Of The Sun!)
    Last edited by madmaxine; 05-23-2008 at 12:11 AM.

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    Veteran Member Tara Nicole's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    The constant bloodshed took away from what could have been a decent movie. It was overkill... pun intended.
    The essential humanity of men can be protected and preserved only where government must answer--not just to the wealthy, not just to those of a particular religion, or a particular race, but to all its people.

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  10. #10
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    I knew when I read about the movie's subject that it was gonna get messy, particularly given Gibson's affinity for gore and the rich opportunity that the Mayans would give him for that.

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    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    The Mayans played a game called Ulama (a ball game still played today). It was common practice to sacrifice the entire losing team....

    They also made regular sacrifices to thier water god Chaac. They found one sacrifice area with 42 people in it, half of whom were under the age of 20. They also found murals depicting things like a Maya ceremony in which a grotesquely costumed priest is shown pulling the entrails from a bound and apparently living sacrificial victim.


    Victims had their hearts cut out or were decapitated, shot full of arrows, clawed, sliced to death, stoned, crushed, skinned, buried alive or tossed from the tops of temples.

    Children were said to be frequent victims, in part because they were considered pure and unspoiled


    They also practiced bloodletting to apease thier gods....
    There's really no way to portray that in a nice neat way.

    I think the gore was integral to the story in a lot of ways. I'm looking forward to seeing it.



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    Veteran Member azdd's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirona View Post
    I think the gore was integral to the story in a lot of ways. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
    I saw it a week ago, and agree completely that the gore was integral to the story. I thought the family values and level of commitment demonstrated by Jaguar Paw and others in his tribe were much more compelling than the violence.

    I do however admit to getting a little queasy right near the beginning when the fellow who can't get his wife pregnant decides to take a big bite out of a pair of tapir testicles to cure his apparent infertility. Now that's a dude who really wants it!

    Overall, I thought the movie was tremendous. The set construction of the Mayan city is just unbelievable and the chase scenes keep you on the edge of your seat almost from start to finish.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Acually, the Mayans did do sacrifices but the sacrifices and the culture were very different from the Aztecs. This movie (in a lot of details) were more Aztecan- so it really pissed me the fuck off. Shit. Another Memoirs of a Geisha- except it's Central America. Let's throw all the entral/south american culture into the same fucking pot. Asshole.

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Kittenkat!

    You are 100% right. The Mayans may have done sacrifices, i forget, but those sacrifices were like the Aztecs. I mean SOOOO Aztec. The whole heart thing, heads tossed down the steps. The Mayans didn't do that, i don't think. At least not like that. I think they did do human sacrifice, i'm too lazy to look at the moment.

    Decent fiction, though.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine View Post
    Somehow I doubt I'll have a problem with the film gore...

    (Purepecha People Of The Sun!)

    Yeah. Yeahyeah, cutting a man's heart out is something Maxie is very familliar with. All they needed to show was the snipping of the testicles and her world would be complete.





    I heart Maxie

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    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap View Post
    Kittenkat!

    You are 100% right. The Mayans may have done sacrifices, i forget, but those sacrifices were like the Aztecs. I mean SOOOO Aztec. The whole heart thing, heads tossed down the steps. The Mayans didn't do that, i don't think. At least not like that. I think they did do human sacrifice, i'm too lazy to look at the moment.

    Decent fiction, though.
    Actually that isn't true.

    Modern day Mayans have been trying to downplay or flat out deny the use of sacrifices and bloodletting in primitive Mayan clutures much how the Mohawk indians of today will deny up and down the fact that they were known for cannibalism in the past.

    The stuff I mentioned above were Mayan archeological finds, not Aztec.
    Last edited by Sirona; 12-18-2006 at 11:17 AM.



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    Senior Member manchester's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    the gore was great, and it was pretty ironic the most fake thing in the movie was the jaguar? wtf?

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    Featured Member Miss_Luscious's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    I thought the movie was great. It was intense for sure but the hardest parts for me to watch was the breaking up of the families and the deaths of loved ones. That kind of stuff really gets to me.
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

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    Featured Member Lola Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    As an Anthro/Archaeology Major in college, I developed my undergraduate thesis proposal on the social and political transformation of post-classical Mesoamerica.

    Historically, "Apocolypto" is quite accurate as it portrays the decline of the sedentary, more peaceful tribes of the Mayan culture. From about 950 - 1150 A.D. Mayan centers were invaded by the Toltecs who were more nomadic, militaristic, religiously fanatical people. The imperialistic civilization portrayed in the movie shows how Aztec influence began to spread and take power in this region predecending Europrean arrival.




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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirona View Post
    Actually that isn't true.

    Modern day Mayans have been trying to downplay or flat out deny the use of sacrifices and bloodletting in primitive Mayan clutures much how the Mohawk indians of today will deny up and down the fact that they were known for cannibalism in the past.

    The stuff I mentioned above were Mayan archeological finds, not Aztec.
    Yeah, but i don't think they did the heart cutting thing. I could be wrong, but that seems to be a Tecla thing. Atzec -> Olmec, those folk.

    ...Ans what's wrong with cannibalism? I hear there's a Rockefeller that's well aquainted with it...
    Last edited by Madcap; 12-18-2006 at 12:34 PM.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Again... I'm not saying that the Mayans didn't sacrifice- because they did. I'm not downplaying that the Mayans here. I'm saying that the methods of sacrifice was not accurately portrayed. considering that the sacrifices were very important to the culture- I find it rather grevious to portray it inaccurately. It's details- how and why people were sacrificed are VERY important, and that gets GLOSSED OVER and used as A VEHICLE of gore-fest shock value bullshit. That's disrespectful, dammit. Also, I don't believe the Toltecs were even mentioned in this film, and considering the timeline- it's still wrong. Either way, the film has gross inaccuracies. Attributing an accurate detail to a different culture- in the wrong timeline- even if the detail may be right- makes it inaccurate. Get my drift? I mean, people would have a shitfit if someone made a portrayal of Geroge Washington speaking very accurate French and wearing very authentic German clothes and made Mt. Vernon look like an accurate Swiss building. The details may be accurate, but in the context, it's all wrong.

    I'm just bitter about the inaccuracies and generalization. Being a minority, I've seen this every time Hollywood does a movie on a non-Western culture. They basically screw shit up, and it just gets really old. Why is it that Hollywood has a tendency and an obsession with making false portrayals of other cultures?

    Many different cultures played the ballgame- Aztecs, Mayan, Toltecs. I believe with the Mayans, the captain of the losing team was decapitated, rather than the whole team.

    The most famous Mayan sacrifices are for the rain god, and involved throwing people inot natural sink holes. Decapitation was far more common than the heart-removing.

    Either way, I'm not against the depiction of human sacrifices- but do it accurately.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...pocalypto.html
    ^^ has some info. The major Mayan experts have been fairly unanimous about the gross inaccuracies of this film.

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    God/dess Sirona's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    There's as much info, if not more, that supports the level and type of gore in the film than not.

    "The ancient Maya had a complex pantheon of deities whom they worshipped and offered human sacrifices. Rulers were believed to be descendants of the gods and their blood was the ideal sacrifice, either through personal bloodletting or the sacrifice of captives of royal blood."
    http://www.jaguar-sun.com/maya.html

    "Although human sacrifice was not as important to the Mayans as to the Aztec, blood sacrifice played a major role in their religion. Individuals offered up their blood, but not necessarily their lives, to the gods through painful methods using sharp instruments such as sting-ray spines or performed ritualistic self mutilation. It is probable that people of all classes shed their blood during religious rites. The king's blood sacrifice was the most valuable and took place more frequently. The Mayans were warlike and raided their neighbors for land, citizens, and captives. Some captives were subjected to the double sacrifice where the victims heart was torn out for the sun and head cut off to pour blood out for the earth."
    http://www.crystalinks.com/mayanhistory.html

    "The majority of this human sacrifice was blood-letting, in which a victim, usually a priest, voluntarily pierces a part (or parts) of their body;usually their tongue, ears, lips, or penis—and "gives" blood to the gods. The higher one's position in the hierarchy, the more blood was expected. Some ceremonies demanded the living heart of a victim, in which case the victim was held down by the four chacs at the top of a pyramid or raised platform while the nacon made an incision below the rib cage and ripped out the heart with his hands. The heart was then burned in order to nourish the gods."
    http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAMRCA/MAYAS.HTM

    "Our understanding of the fascinating MAYAN CULTURE was completely wrong and misinterpreted until as recent as the 1960, when major achievements were made in the deciphering of their glyph language. Elaborately designed ceremonial cities lacking any obvious defenses initially led us to believe that the Mayans were a peaceful theocracy living in ideal harmony with their environment and each other. We could not have been further from the truth. Lowland city-states lived in constant warfare with one another and the thirst of their gods for human blood and sacrifice seemed impossible to satiate."
    http://www.paleodirect.com/may013.htm

    The murals at Bonampak depict human sacrifice and rituals that reach deep into understanding the ancient Maya. For the contemporary Maya, sacrifice is a two-way process of exchange between people and gods, involving the consumption or absorption of soul and flesh by both humans and supernatural entities. The soul is something called ch'ulel. There is a connection made between blood and the ch'ulel. Ch'ulel appears as droplets of blood falling from the hands of sacrificial victims in the Bonampak murials. Since blood is seen in contemporary people as a primary conduit of the ch'ulel, it is reasonable to see the sacrifices depicted the Bonampak murials as scenes of priests and warriors capturing the souls of their victims. In a sense, this is a communion with the supernaturals and the nurturing of the gods with ch'ulel. Whereas, modern Mayan sacrifice chickens, the ancient Maya sacrificed humans in the ultimate giving to the gods and it was a sacrifice for the people as a whole. It was ritual performed by the kings and warriors intended for the benefit of the community.
    *Pictures of murals here also
    http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/...onampak1a.html
    Last edited by Sirona; 12-18-2006 at 02:09 PM.



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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    well braveheart was western but still got plenty of details wrong. For example, William Wallace never had the queen's baby, she came to Britain after he died.
    Payback was one the most violent movies I've seen. still good, though.

    Mayans are probably as good a civilization to portray as a bloody mess as any on this planet. I heard one theory the civilization declined because of constant fighting.

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by space_Cadet_28 View Post
    well braveheart was western but still got plenty of details wrong. For example, William Wallace never had the queen's baby, she came to Britain after he died.
    Yeah, i kinda doubt William Wallace had the queen's baby. I mean, she wore a rubber!

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    Default Re: "Apocolypto"

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    I thought the movie was great. It was intense for sure but the hardest parts for me to watch was the breaking up of the families and the deaths of loved ones. That kind of stuff really gets to me.
    I agree with that statement. That scene where the Older kid says she will take care of the others... kinda brought a tear to the eye. (~_^)

    I was suprised by how much I enjoyed the movie.

    I didn't really think the gore was anywhere near bad. I will say the movie was realistic in its depictions of violence. I mean a removed heart isn't all that disturbing, its a natural biological organ.

    The actual gore shouldn't be so shocking, more so the violent act itself.

    Oh and I really enjoyed the Costume Design. The tattoos, markings, hair, jewelery, armor. Wow.

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