View Poll Results: Has SW "debate" changed your mind, ever?

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18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - it's so informative! I learn something new all the time!

    9 50.00%
  • No - I know I'm right; don't confuse me with the facts.

    2 11.11%
  • Yes - I now believe that arguing politics on a titty bar board should be a capital offense.

    7 38.89%
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Thread: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

  1. #1
    smartcookie
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    Default Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Has reading the political arguments here and in the Political Poo forum (now closed) have ever caused you to change your opinions or views on a particular matter?

  2. #2
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Political and religious beliefs are solidified for most people at a young age. Unless a person has an open mind and a chance to travel and meet people of all different backgrounds, beliefs, and education, there is nary a chance ANYTHING will change them.

    It reminds me of all the stupid people I know who love to bitch about how much they hate stupid people.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

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    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  3. #3
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    So cast yer vote!

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Tara Nicole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    It's funny to me that a person who regularly participates in political discussions on this site votes that said discussion should be a "capital offense" on this website. But whatever
    The essential humanity of men can be protected and preserved only where government must answer--not just to the wealthy, not just to those of a particular religion, or a particular race, but to all its people.

    Robert F. Kennedy
    June 6, 1966

  5. #5
    Featured Member tampadancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Although my opinions are rarely changed, I usually do gain a different perspective and insight through the political discussions on here. We have some very intelligent members on here, and I enjoy the discourse (as long as people don't get over emotional and unnecessarily heated)

  6. #6
    madmaxine
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I learn interesting things all over the Internets...but I have always found it comical that people wanna talk politics on a titty bar board.

    My actual personal views on many topics here are offensive to some so I mind my Ps and Qs.

  7. #7
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Your poll question conflates 'learning' with 'changing your mind'. Obviously you can learn things without necessarily 'changing your mind'.... but anyway, whoever said that the purpose of discussion was to change someone's mind?

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Tara Nicole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxine View Post

    My actual personal views on many topics here are offensive to some so I mind my Ps and Qs.
    Speaking just for myself I like reading your pov

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot View Post
    whoever said that the purpose of discussion was to change someone's mind?

    Good point! I always thought the purpose of discussion was .... discussion.
    The essential humanity of men can be protected and preserved only where government must answer--not just to the wealthy, not just to those of a particular religion, or a particular race, but to all its people.

    Robert F. Kennedy
    June 6, 1966

  9. #9
    Featured Member Hello_Kitty27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I voted by saying I learn something new. Sometimes I've gotten pissed reading things, sometimes I've been the one to be proved wrong, sometimes I really didn't/don't know the issue very well, and it has inspired me to learn more about it, etc.






    (just click to donate FREE food to those in need...REALLY!)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Actually yes. I won't say what issue, but I thought I was pretty well read on something and, after reading what others had to say, and some of the links they posted, I had a different opinion.

    Ok, so maybe it wasn't a true change of heart as much as I was able to make a more educated decision.


    ETA: I didn't vote because I don't feel I learn something new ALL the time, but my vote would have been yes, if that clause was not attached to it.

  11. #11
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tara Nicole View Post
    It's funny to me that a person who regularly participates in political discussions on this site votes that said discussion should be a "capital offense" on this website. But whatever
    It's funny to me that you think I didn't know that when I posted this poll.

    I picture you as the kind of person who gets pissed off watching The Colbert Report because she doesn't realize it's satire. Am I close?

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Tara Nicole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartcookie View Post

    I picture you as the kind of person who gets pissed off watching The Colbert Report because she doesn't realize it's satire. Am I close?

    Nope- actually I like Colbert because of who he makes fun of ... it's a trip But Bill Maher is my main man! I'm the kind who gets pissed at the likes of Rush Limbaugh and his kind-you know the type.
    The essential humanity of men can be protected and preserved only where government must answer--not just to the wealthy, not just to those of a particular religion, or a particular race, but to all its people.

    Robert F. Kennedy
    June 6, 1966

  13. #13
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I tend to be more opinionated than I am informed, and the discussions here have inspired me to become more informed, sometimes. But generally the information reinforces my opinions.

    I have learned that there are people out there with the same opinions as me and entirely different thought processes.



  14. #14
    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I participate in a couple of political forums, and the members here are a lot more civil to one another than in most political "discussion" type forums.

    I find it interesting that as a group strippers and their customers are considered "fringe" and abnormal by societal standards, but we demonstrate civility and kindness to one another much more often than those who are part of the "civilized" world. In other words, we don't seem to have a huge problem with agreeing to disagree.

    *As a side note, the Christian Right political forums seem to be the nastiest of them all when it comes to being down right combative and threatening.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


  15. #15
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Well, then I stand corrected. I think the problem with political debate on SW, and any internet forum, really, is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch, and it's damned impossible for moderators to keep emotions in check.

    Colbert is the man!

  16. #16
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Have I learned anything? No more or less so than talking to people on other MB's or in RL. But whether its face to face or through the ol' friendly neighborhood internet, discussion is always good, provided that its civil if in which case it isn't, its no longer discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Political and religious beliefs are solidified for most people at a young age. Unless a person has an open mind and a chance to travel and meet people of all different backgrounds, beliefs, and education, there is nary a chance ANYTHING will change them.
    Which to some degree shows one advantage an internet MB might have over the real world. I can "travel" chat with people who live in different backgrounds and cultures without leaving my house.

    Of course, a disadvantage might be that a MB community focused on a particular subject, namely a semi-marginalized industry like strip clubs, probably isn't going to be entirely representative of the political spectrum as a whole. Even if liberals and conservatives argue on SW about "left-right" issues, there isn't much argument between libertarians and statists on here on "up-down" issues, because we have a clear libertarian bias amongst our membership. This really isn't a place that statist types would want to hang out at.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  17. #17
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Which to some degree shows one advantage an internet MB might have over the real world. I can "travel" chat with people who live in different backgrounds and cultures without leaving my house.
    True, the internet has opened up the doors to education. Unfortunately most people use it for porn.

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    Of course, a disadvantage might be that a MB community focused on a particular subject, namely a semi-marginalized industry like strip clubs, probably isn't going to be entirely representative of the political spectrum as a whole. Even if liberals and conservatives argue on SW about "left-right" issues, there isn't much argument between libertarians and statists on here on "up-down" issues, because we have a clear libertarian bias amongst our membership. This really isn't a place that statist types would want to hang out at.
    I don't know doc. Statists are a pretty small minority out there as is. So are the super right-wing nuts, and they can happily stay out of here. I think we have a pretty diverse spectrum here. First, not every member on this site is a stripper or deeply involved in the stripclub culture. Second, being a stripper in different parts of the world is a different job alltogether.

    If anything, we aren't good represtantatives of the average person working in the stripclub business, but rather a different cross-section of peoples who all happen to have some connection to the sex/entertainment industry.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  18. #18
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I was very surprised by the number of politically conservative members partcipating in Political Poo, both dancers and customers alike (not that this is necessarily a bad thing, just surprising). And also by the heated nature of the debate in PP. There was more needless hostility generated there than in any other section of SW, by far.

    And both political spectrums seemed to have their irrational, extremely argumentative proponents, who often did their 'cause' more harm than good by the violence of their posting habits.

    I actually like talking with people I disagree with, as long as the emotional level of the conversation remains calm.

    Jay Zeno comes to mind instantly as the ideal person to disagree with, but nonetheless enjoy the experience, and walk away feeling like a better person for it. Not that I necessarily disagree with him frequently, lol--but when we have disagreed, it has always been with mutual respect and consideration.

    I don't think people are likely to change their basic belief structures after a certain age, as Katrine notes--and it's certainly not likely to happen in a forum for strippers, lol--but you can learn to appreciate and understand why people disagree with you, and that is a very good thing...

    Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I think that the few unpleasant disagreements I have had in the old Political Poo wouldn't have happened if I was face to face with the people I was disagreeing with.

    We can certainly all agree that there is a greater need for social and political tolerance within the general, non-stripping population, for those of us who are employed in the clubs.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  19. #19
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by smartcookie View Post
    I think the problem with political debate on SW, and any internet forum, really, is that a few bad apples spoil the bunch, and it's damned impossible for moderators to keep emotions in check.
    and yet, after poo was closed, and all political discussion was moved to this unmoderated area, the discussions have for the most part remained civil...

  20. #20
    smartcookie
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Have they? I don't think they're that civil all the time. I don't really remember how PP was. I think tensions were running very high because of the election and people were extremely emotional.

  21. #21
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I suppose civility, like beauty and truth, must remain in the eye of the beholder.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I'm with Djoser. I gave up after one debate in which I tried to be civil and got diatribes back. I can't stand the shouting TV political shows either.

    Oddly enough, I find the people who do politics and policy for a living frequently (not always!) are far more civil in debate than those who don't -- it's like if you want to actually get something done, rather than rant about it, you realize that you have to listen to what the other side is saying.

  23. #23
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    My actual personal views on many topics here are offensive to some so I mind my Ps and Qs.
    Just because something is potentially offensive doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed; rather, the more controversial and offensive, the more those issues need to be addressed in public forums.

    Closing PP didn't really accomplish anything, and the problem was always relegated to perhaps two members who didn't post anywhere else on the site and didn't understand the meaning of ad hominem attacks.

    Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I think that the few unpleasant disagreements I have had in the old Political Poo wouldn't have happened if I was face to face with the people I was disagreeing with.
    Well said. More talking is generally better than less, but only if people are actually listening and receptive. This is frequently not the case online, however, since civility takes a back seat to keyboard courage and crassness.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member kdogg247's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    I think is fun to debate political issues back and forth. Whether something has changed my mind is not really the point.

  25. #25
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Argument on SW - what have you learned?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot View Post
    Your poll question conflates 'learning' with 'changing your mind'. Obviously you can learn things without necessarily 'changing your mind'.... but anyway, whoever said that the purpose of discussion was to change someone's mind?
    On slashdot.org, I would mod this "Insightful."

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