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Thread: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

  1. #1
    AlexxaHex
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    Default My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I am an impulsive gemini with very bad credit and my spending habits used to be horrible (getting better though) and as much as I hate to admit it, and wonder if it's a bad place to post this, I need some hardcore advice.
    It seems as though a lot of girls on here are good with paying their taxes and saving their money, stocking it away and investing it. Boy, that is the farthest thing from how I am. And I really wish that weren't true.

    I have avoided jobs that aren't 'under the table' because I don't want student loan creditors garnishing my wages. I have no idea how to file taxes for myself. I know I should have a DBA and an accountant, but I have procrastinated for far too long. Now I just feel trapped.

    My credit is also pretty much in the garbage. Last I checked (about 2 years ago), my fico score was about 500. I have student loan debts, credit card debt, 2 unpaid cell phone bills, medical bills, etc etc...if it weren't for my aunt, I would have defaulted on a car lease as well.

    Because of this, and my inability to produce tax forms or pay stubs, I recently had to purchase a vehicle for WAY above BB value because the company does their own financing (you know, one of those places that take you no matter what your credit is). I am stuck paying $400 a month until 2010. They gave me a really good sales pitch and I absolutely needed a new car because mine was about to fall apart. I made an impulsive decision and I don't know how to get out of it.

    My aunt thinks I should just turn the car back in, because I can't strip for several more months and I'm currently unemployed, and so I can save that money every month for my baby and have my boyfriend buy a car instead, but I don't want to rely on him in case anything happens between us and I don't want to ruin my credit even further. I just don't think I can afford the car right now, or even if I should keep it until the payments are supposed to be finished. It's already having some odd mechanical noises but I am JUST past the warranty! If I had known I was pregnant at the time, I never would have signed the contract.


    The only thing I think I can hope for is that the student loan/credit card/cell phone debts on my credit history will be wiped out in a few years (due to statute of limitations laws since I accrued the debt in NYS). I might be misinformed about that.

    I want to do the right thing from now on. I want to fix everything that I did to myself financially, and start building some solid foundation for my baby. I hate hearing my phone ring, because it's usually a creditor. Maybe I should just file for bankruptcy? Does anyone have any idea how I should go about getting back on my feet and stop screwing myself over?
    Also, is it hard to find an 'adult friendly' accountant? How much do their services cost usually?

  2. #2
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Sorry about the multiple posts - it kept freezing and then re-posting I suppose. If there is any way to fix it, I would.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    just an fyi, since i noticed it on my own credit report. some creditors will repost charge offs or even resolved/paid off stuff at the 7 year mark when it's supposed to come off just to keep you further messed up. i had several items that i know were paid off added in the last month of the 7 year timeframe. now i get to figure out how to clear this type of thing off my report so i'm left with only open accounts.

  4. #4
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    That's good to know. Thanks.
    I wonder if this applies to student loans or if they are exempt from the 7 year thing?

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I don't know about the US, but in Canada even bankruptcy doesn't clear your student loans. We can thank the stupid medical students for graduating 80 grand in the hole and then filing bankruptcy so they didn't have to pay their student loans. Bastards.
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    america is the same way. unless your student loans are 'sallie mae' based (i.e., from a private lender), perkins and direct loans have to be paid off even in bankruptcy.

    the good news is that if you have no money, a simple phone call even with sallie mae loans will put you in forbearance/deferment as long as you need. you don't even have to provide proof, just say 'i need a forbearance' and they'll keep giving them to you for 6-12 month stretches and backdate it to cover any missed payments.

    also, a lot of debts that are small amounts (under $300 and especially under 150$) often don't end up on credit reports. that said, it's better to clear such things up if you have the spare 100 bucks or whatever because they COULD put it on there.

  7. #7
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    My loans are from Citibank. I don't really know what that means.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    bah, screw editing my above post. also, you really need to grab recent copies (free) of your report from all three agencies. or buy the reports/fico combo from www.myfico.com for around 50$. but a lot can change in even 2 years. some stuff may honestly not even be on there, or someone may have added new erroneous things.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    if any of your paperwork has 'sallie mae' on it, then citibank was the lender for some sallie mae loans. if, however, you got private student loans that were NOT sallie mae-backed, then you are credit-wise about in the same boat as if the debt was credit card debt.

    student loans from the gov't and to a lesser extent sallie mae are more, uh, generously dealt with (they have a very lazy attitude towards reporting any type of deliquency to the bureaus. they REALLY want you to be in good standing for a number of reasons, hence the ease of deferments).

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Agreed that you should try and get out from under your 'extortion' car loan. However it may not be as simple as just turning in the car, as the your loan amortization may in fact have you 'underwater' in terms of the principal balance you currently owe versus the current resale value of the car. Where mainstream lenders usually involve a third party to provide 'gap insurance' to cover the 'underwater' situation, I doubt that the terms of your 'extortion' loan addresses this. Your 'extortion' loan may also include a prepayment penalty clause. First order of business is to find out these details re your current car loan to see if turning in your car and 'walking away' is really an option, versus having to come up with several thousand dollars in cash to cover the outstanding balance versus current resale value 'gap' and/or prepayment penalties.

    Second order of business is, as others have already posted, to determine whether your student loan is a direct gov't agency loan or a privately financed SallieMae loan with gov't subsidized interest rate only, as sounds like the case since CitiBank appears on the paperwork. If that's the case then you need to immediately request a 'forebearance'. However, this will not be as simple to deal with as a direct gov't agency loan, since CitiBank is going to try and charge you additional interest on the money you will be late paying back.

  11. #11
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I think you realize you have been a bit foolish with your money. That is step one and you are now aware. (When I was younger I was a dumb ass too and had to buy my leases six months at a time as well as worked my ass off harder than anyone else around me.)

    If you can't trust your boyfriend then it may be time to dump your boyfriend. This *IS* a two income earner society these days - whether it is room mates sharing expenses or what have you. A person has to be living mighty tight or have better than average income to live alone these days.

    Work on paying off the lesser bills. Yes, there will be some screaming on the phone but that is what voice mail is for eh? Pay off who you owe them to, not to the collection agency. When you pay something off - you will have a hit of emotional joy like you wouldn't believe. I mean, the other stuff is already fucked up right? So do what's right by the people who lent ya money and gave you service in the fastest way possible.

    When ya get into the bigger bills, figure out who is throwing the largest interest/penalties at you and pay off that one. Pay off the small ones first though! It will give you a sense of getting something done with and build up inner strength for those bills that might be a long time in paying off.

    Like Mel has said, get a deferment on the student loans.

    If you are not making the money - you can't spend the money. You are gonna have to go bum for a while. If people notice, just tell them you are saving money for better future financial security. In essence, you are.

    You will need professional help with the tax stuff.

    Filing a DBA is easy - just go to the county clerk or what have you, fill out a couple of forms, and you are good to go. Be aware some counties have the newspapers print the DBA's - for other types of business, this is a nice bit of promotion - for a stripper it might not be so nice.

    And personally, I would say to get out of California. You need a lot more money to do the same thing in other states for a lot less money. That state's housing, tax, and cost of living is a huge financial burden for the working poor.

  12. #12
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Thank you for responding everyone -

    To be honest, I don't have any of the student loan paperwork. They have sent it all to my aunt's house in NY and I just tell her to throw it out. I do remember something about Citibank though. I can ask her to save one of the bills for me just to see what it says. My main tactic with the loans is avoidance. I know it's not the smartest thing to do but I didn't know what other options I have. The creditors have called and harassed my family and even friends that I used to live with, and really seemed like they needed to track me down in a scary kind of way, so I kind of felt like I had no other option than to run away from it. My aunt said someone showed up at her house once.

    As for the car, all I know is that if I miss any of the first 6 payments by one day, the car will be in reposession. They will come and take it and that's it. I'm sure if I called and asked what my options are, they would probably tell me something that fits their agenda and not mine. I know that they don't want the car, and they would be losing money if I returned it.
    It's not that I don't trust my boyfriend, but I find it personally difficult to rely on anyone else for anything of that magnitude. I really like having things in my own name. In this industry, you learn to not count on men for money. Sometimes they stop paying you because they choose to, sometimes they have another reason which is more out of their control. Get what I mean? I suppose I should just let him do it, and if worse comes to worse I can get a cheap car. We are about to raise a kid together. We should be able to work together on this. He is definitely not the type of guy to run out on me or leave me stranded, especially now.

    And yes, I definitely want to get out of California at some point. I have no idea where else I'd go, but I know how ridiculously expensive it is. I was just reading an old thread where someone said they pay 33% in taxes! All this stuff has me terrified!
    I guess I'm gonna have to start saving my receipts and get an accountant too. I don't mind about the DBA being in the paper. I'm "out" to everyone.

    Thanks again.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    If you havn't filed or pay taxes in years, be prepared to pay back taxes too. And the IRS can do pretty much anything they want.

    Are you working in a regular job right now where you can make a reasonable living and still be able to work pregnant? Perhaps I missed reading that earlier.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I really don't have very much different advice than what was already said above, but I'd like to add that maybe you could pick up a book by Suze Orman and REALLY READ it. I really like her, and her books are really easy to read and understand, especially for people who are not so good with money (myself included!)

    A good book to start with is "The Road To Wealth: A Comprehensive Guide to Your Money" http://www.amazon.com/Road-Wealth-Co...452523-6589461

    She is really smart and this book in particular has some good information about student loans and avoidance of certain bills - WITH each states statute of limitations (i.e. how long until your bills die, and what bills are included). Anyway, that book would be great for you, I think. It has TONS of info.

    Good luck.






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  15. #15
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I have a really great tax guy in Beverly Hills. The man is a fucking genius and he'll help you write off as much as you legally can. You definitely need a good accountant - don't try and take on the IRS by yourself or they'll bite off your head. PM me if you want his number. His rates are extremely reasonable (y'all know how broke and stingy I am, so if I'm happy with him, he's good and frugal).

  16. #16
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Are you working in a regular job right now where you can make a reasonable living and still be able to work pregnant? Perhaps I missed reading that earlier.
    I started doing phone sex again through Niteflirt. It's not much...I only use it to pay for my car and insurance...but my bf is paying for everything else.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Wow, you are up against a lot. I know it must be so scary but don't allow the fear to force you to continue keeping your head in the sand. It sounds like your baby is serving as a catalyst to get you out into the light of day. It's a crash course in growing up but you CAN do it.

    So many dancers are just one unfortunate incident from total disaster. I was responsible with my money in terms of paying taxes and paying bills on time, but I was dancing just to pay off student loans and credit cards, I had no savings or renters insurance. When I lost everything I owned and nearly died in an apartment fire I had exactly $100 in cash to my name. I was a well educated, popular dancer that was suddenly homeless and surviving on Pay Day loans. The years that followed were horrible, I had PTSD, monthly bills were snowballing, a new club opened with $5 dances so all the clubs dropped their prices and when I could get to work without crying I was making half the money. I had to buy my life back bit by bit, clothes from the thrift store, towels, sheets, a mattress. I had to rebuild everything one step at a time, but you know what? I did it. That was ten years ago and I'm in a better financial position now than ever because it woke me up. My point is that you can work your way out of a very dark place. The best thing is that you're young and you have time on your side.

    See the accountant that Yekhefah recommended. Get second and third and fourth opinions. The tax situation may be better or worse than what you're picturing, but right now you're just stuck with your imagination and you can't make real progress from there. You need to know exactly what your debts are. Get your aunt to send your bills to you. Order your credit reports and see exactly what's there. Let your boyfriend help you with the car. I know your reasoning on not trusting men with money, and I do believe that's important, but right now you're in a dire situation. You could save that $400 a month and if he did bail later you could still buy a $2000 car.

    Go to the library and get the Suze Orman books. Her writing is very easy to read and will give you a basic understanding of what you need to do to get out of debt and other things you need to be doing financially. I also recommend Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. These books will help you prioritize instead of feeling wildly out of control. Commit a minimum of one hour a day, more if you're not working, to reading and learning about all this stuff. Throw all your spare change into a bucket every day, it doesn't sound like anything but it's an energetic commitment and a seed for you to focus on watching your money build and grow. It's going to take a lot of hard work and commitment, it will often feel like one step forward, two steps back. It's like someone trying to lose 200 pounds, they don't know how they let themselves get there and getting back isn't going to happen over night, but with knowlege, hard work, and commitment it can change. It can't change by just hoping and wishing.

    When you return to dancing take a third of your money out each night for taxes and stuff it in an envelope. It stings but you have to do it. You can't save without putting money in the bank. I also recommend for dancers who can't strip for more that 3 nights a week to get a part time job on the books. It will force you into a schedule (i.e. dance 3 days/other job 2 days). I cringe when I hear dancers say they strip because they can't handle a regular job because for dancing to be at a worthwhlie in the long run you have to have MORE discipline than with a regular job because you have to pay your own taxes, benefits, and stick to a schedule even when you're moody and want to stay home and take a bath.

    You have no choice but to start where you are and take it day by day but you CAN get out of this mess. Good luck!

  18. #18
    God/dess Gynger's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    I have other advice other than financial... it ties with it, but.....

    You said that you don't want to rely on your boyfriend with something of such a great magnitude, but yet you also turn around and say you are both going to raise a child together?
    If your boyfriend isn't the type to run out on you, plans on helping you raise your child, then you shouldn't feel ashamed to ask him for help. I do understand what you are saying- I've been where you are... however.....

    Learn your lesson now. (and it sounds like you already know what you have put yourself into) You are about to be a parent. You are going to have to fix all of this in order to make a better life for your child.

    As for your student loans, I have mine through Wachoiva and they are federal because the government gauranteed them. Just because it says "citibank"pr another lender does not mean that they are not federally funded. YOU DO NOT WANT to ignore your student loans... you may wish to go back to school (which I also highly suggest you do, since you are going to be a mom, have no job currently etc) And, yes, you can forebare your loans, and get the situation fixed to go back and get more loans and funding- but you do not want to quit otherwise you will go right back to where you are now.

    I'm not lecturing Please do not take it that way.. but, do not make your child pay for your mistakes.. credit is a necessary anymore, you need an education to provide for your child, and you need to also be able to stand on your own two feet in the event your boyfriend changes his mind (and I sincerely hope that he stays and is with you a long time.)
    Just food for thought.
    Many hugs.


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  19. #19
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Thank you both very much for taking the time to reply - I totally asked for everyone's opinion and as hard as some of it is to take, I don't feel as though anyone is lecturing.

    I'm taking everything I read into account for sure. Thanks again.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    As for your student loans, I have mine through Wachoiva and they are federal because the government gauranteed them. Just because it says "citibank"pr another lender does not mean that they are not federally funded. YOU DO NOT WANT to ignore your student loans...
    To clarify, Stafford student loans are indeed gov't guaranteed and gov't subsidized. However, in reality you ARE borrowing the money from the commercial bank, and paying the interest to the commercial bank, and not to the gov't. From the commercial bank's viewpoint these are secured loans made at standard interest rates, but you as the borrower don't see the standard interest rate because the gov't pays an interest rate 'subsidy' payment directly to the commercial bank so that your interest payment can be 'below market'. If you go belly-up on a Stafford student loan you will get double-whammied because both the commercial bank and the gov't agency will list you as delinquent.

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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    just an fyi, since i noticed it on my own credit report. some creditors will repost charge offs or even resolved/paid off stuff at the 7 year mark when it's supposed to come off just to keep you further messed up. i had several items that i know were paid off added in the last month of the 7 year timeframe. now i get to figure out how to clear this type of thing off my report so i'm left with only open accounts.
    You contact that particular reporting agency and contest the account
    in question on that the 7 year mark is up. Experian's reports say when the account will expire. You can do it online too. You may have to contact the creditor as well and get it in writing that they will supprt your claim. You may have to contest items more than once, unfortunatley. If your report is pulled up by a loan officer or whatever and that old bad mark is there, once that correction has been made, you tell experian (or whoever) that they need to send you a copy of the correction AS WELL as one to the one to the loan officer. Hope that makes sense.
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    If you're having a party and need strippers, email me with the details and any questions you have. Thanks!

  22. #22
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    How pastdue are your student loans? If they are more than 6months late(around 180 days), then they go into "default." This means that they will cease the monthly payment plan and then you will have to pay the full balance upfront. I do not think that forbearance/deferrment is available if you are in default. Also, student loans are exempt from bankruptcy.

    Perhaps declaring bankruptcy is an option, although I heard that they tightened the reins on declaring bankruptcy at the end of last year, because so many people were doing it.

    If you have pastdue cell phone and other collections that are more than 2-3yrs old, then do not bother to pay them! Paying an old collections brings the account up to current and it will NOT restart the 7yr clock(contrary to popular belief), but the current activity on the account WILL temporarily lower your credit score even more for the next 6 months. You don't need that kinda aggravation. I say that you should ignore the collectors and simply wait for them to drop off at this point. You need money for living expenses and taking care of your baby...save the money, do not give it to a collections agency. However, if you DO get a letter from a collections agency offering to let you pay 50% of the balance but have it reported as "paid in full," that MIGHT be one situation where it might actually be beneficial to pay it off...a friend of mine got an offer like that from Wachovia a few years back.

    The best thing to do at this point, is to ignore old bills until they fall off, and to start rebuilding credit. The EASIEST way to rebuild credit is to find a very caring person with good credit to add you as an "authorized user" to their credit card. This way, you will get their account's good credit and longevity on YOUR account as well as theirs. They can always hold your copy of the credit card so that you will have the benefit of good credit, without having the card to actually rack up balances on. I did that for a friend a while back(but later cancelled him as an authorized user, because he did something that really annoyed me and I wanted to spite him LOL).

    Or, you can go to a credit union and get a secured credit card. Basically, you give them a deposit and they hold your money in an interest-bearing CD(Certificate of Deposit). They issue you a credit card for an amount up to the amount of your deposit. The annual fee is minimal, around $10-30/yr. If you keep the card in good standing(i.e., consistently pay at least the minimum payment on time) for around a year or so, they will let you keep the card but also give you back your deposit + whatever interest accrued. Most banks or credit unions do not conduct credit checks for this kind of card. All you need is to have a current savings account with that bank. And if you don't, you'll be able to open one up as long as you don't have any current bad marks in ChexSystems(e.g., drastically overwithdrawan bank accounts in the past that haven't been paid up).

    Do not, I repeat, do NOT fall for the stupid "predatory lender" credit cards. These companies include First Premier Bank, Aspire, Household Bank, etc. They give cards to almost ANYONE. They charge so many outrageous fees, that by the time you get your credit card, it is damn near maxed out from all the fees! You are much better off using the money for fees, to put down a deposit for a secured card...at least you get that money back after a period of time!

    Also do NOT use debt consolidation services! They screw things up constantly to the point that you have to watch after them and end up doing all the "dirty work" for them. They make you pay stupid fees for their service(usually $15-50/month on top of your payments!), but they barely do any good service for you. Also, they try to cut interest rates or negotiate with creditors, but all the things that they do are things that you could easily do yourself if you educate yourself on credit and how to negotiate. They also generally do not carry out everything they agreed to. I was stupid enough to sign up for debt consolidation a few years ago because I couldn't afford to pay back a tuition bill in full. I added on a few small credit card balances just to consolidate and hopefully make things simpler. They would usually send in payments late, lose the checks that I sent to them, and they claimed to cut my credit cards' interest rates but instead, most of them got RAISED. And when I complained about this a few months later, they rudely and defensively told me that it was "my" responsibility to check that, when it was THEIR job and I was paying THEM! And when I told them that I wanted to end services with them, they told me that if I didn't pay off my creditors in full through their program, that I would not get my initial $220 deposit back. So a big NO to debt consolidation.

    I hope you the best of luck with everything. I had my fair share of debt problems in the past(heh that's why I initially got into dancing!). There is always a way to work yourself out of it, it's just a matter of staying informed about the credit system, time, and sometimes a little bit of money(such as paying a $20 annual fee for a secured card).

  23. #23
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    A lot of those debt consolidation and credit "assistance" companies are actually collectors in sheep's clothing. There is one out there that is non-profit - and I suspect they would actually be the real deal.

    Otherwise, they are making money off debt - just like banks and other collectors do. When dealing with them - just remember what their market is - debt - not paying off debt.

    A lot of good advice on here.

    But as I have said before, I don't put things on credit unless I can pay them off in a month. If I can't pay it off in a month, I save the money except for two exceptions: "Bricks and wheels."

    I have a credit score of 811.

    So many people ask - in effect - "How can I spend money to get a good credit score?"

    The answer is easy - live under your means - pay your bills off (or at least on time.) I get three friggin credit card offers in the mail A DAY. All go right through the grinder.

  24. #24
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexxaHex View Post
    I am an impulsive gemini with very bad credit and my spending habits used to be horrible ........

    My credit is also pretty much in the garbage. Last I checked (about 2 years ago), my fico score was about 500. I have student loan debts, credit card debt, 2 unpaid cell phone bills, medical bills, etc etc.........

    Because of this, and my inability to produce tax forms or pay stubs, I recently had to purchase a vehicle for WAY above BB value because the company does their own financing (you know, one of those places that take you no matter what your credit is). I am stuck paying $400 a month until 2010. They gave me a really good sales pitch and I absolutely needed a new car because mine was about to fall apart. I made an impulsive decision and I don't know how to get out of it.
    .......

    I want to do the right thing from now on. I want to fix everything that I did to myself financially, and start building some solid foundation for my baby.
    ok, I think if you really stop making excuses, you'll see lots of improvement. your spending habits have so much more to do with your self control then star sign. IMO, it's an easy excuse.
    you can check your creit score for free, so you should know it! no excuses. Knowledge is power.
    I understand about being impulsive, I do it too. But it's fixable. You could sell that car hopefully, and pay it off. Buy a used car private party maybe? Then you won't have to deal w/ payments at least.
    Congrats on realizing you need to do better for your baby Ya, you're in over your head, but it's no impossible.

  25. #25
    AlexxaHex
    Guest

    Default Re: My whoppingly huge debt/financial problem

    My student loans have been in default since 2002. I haven't taken any action on them whatsoever. I still have to see if they will be wiped off my credit based on the lender, I suppose.
    Most of my debt is several years old. So I guess I'd be better off just letting some of it go. But I only know exactly how old it is when I get a new credit report.
    Is it true that each time your credit score/report is accessed that it effects your credit rating? I've had people run credit checks at least 4 times in the past two years.
    I like the credit union CD thing - maybe I'll do that when I go back to work. I had 3 credit cards and maxed them all out taking trips around the country several years ago, so I would like to avoid having them again.
    I CAN live like I'm poor if I have to, but I have to remember that having a good month at work does not mean I am able to buy $600 worth of lingerie. When I'm broke, I know how to survive really well.

    And for now I will just try and make the car payments until I make a good decision about what to do. If my bf buys a car and then I turn mine into the dealership, my credit will suffer even more. If I keep it, I am paying too much for a car that is kind of iffy. My aunt thinks that a reposession is better than paying too much per month. How long does that kind of thing stay on your report? And how much does it really effect your score?

    Thanks for the suggestion, Lola Rose but I am paying way above market value for it and there is no way that I could sell it and not be in the negative. Ever hear of Drive Time? They sell you a car no matter what your credit is and then they charge you an insane interest rate. I think mine is like 17% or something. If I keep the car, I will have paid something like $22K by 2010 for a 2005 Cavalier.

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