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Thread: Cut throat or free market economy?

  1. #1
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Cut throat or free market economy?

    Last night in the locker room, I overheard some of my co-workers having a heated conversation.

    An older dancer was complaining because a younger dancer "cut throat" her. This is nothing against older dancers, because those who can make it in this business into their 30s and 40s are usually unreasonably hot, but this lady was TRUST ME unreasonably not hot and lacks conversation skills and has no hustle. She looks like a former second tier White Snake groupie and talks like a line cook. She was sitting with a guy for 30 minutes trying to get a dance from him. Who sits with a guy for that long for free?! The younger dancer simply walked by, the guy grabbed her, asked her for a dance, and they went off to VIP. Everyone was OUTRAGED that this girl would "cut" this lady's "throat". For being in the business for so long, she hasn't seem to have learned the ins and outs. I think that you should spend NO MORE than 3 songs with a guy if he's not buying dances or paying me for my time. My policy is when it's slow to moderately busy, I spend time up to three songs with a guy. When it's moderately busy to packed, I spend no more than 1 minute POLITELY trying to sell a dance, because if he says no, then there's at least a hundred other guys you can ask, so why gamble your time with someone who might not spend money? Friday and Saturday nights are not the time for deep conversation! People either want dances or they DON'T.

    I interjected to the outraged girls, "Well really, it's not the girl's fault. What is she supposed to say? No, I won't dance for you? Turn down money? It's just business. Just because we're topless and our job is vaguely sexual, it doesn't make it personal. This guy was obviously not interested in getting a dance from you, and you invested too much time without closing the sale. He was probably just being polite and you were GIVING AWAY your time for free. Look on the bright side, isn't it better that he walked away after 30 minutes and you were free to go make money off someone who WANTS to spend money on you instead of sitting with him for an HOUR?" The outraged girls replied "I never look on the bright side" and "there's a bright side?" AT THE SAME TIME Ok... you sound like a born-entertainer! You're a real people-person! The ringleader says "It's a good way to get your ass kicked!" I reply "Well, approaching someone's customer isn't exactly a chapter in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People', but even if she did, which she didn't, if the customer said yes HE DIDN'T WANT A DANCE FROM YOU. I've never done it, but how angry can you really be? Move on, don't let it ruin the rest of your night, there's still money to be made" Ringleader replies "Of course you've done it!" Like I'm a total cunt to think this way. My idea of cut-throating is doing something malicious to make the money that someone else would make, like lying about them to their regulars or forcing yourself on their customer as soon as they get onstage and squatting.

    Another funny part! The ringleader told me it's impossible to always make $250 a night without being a whore or playing headgames! I said "Well, 1 out of 10 nights you work you might not get there simply because you're out of it or it's a bad crowd, but if you REALLY work from 9-2, you're basically guaranteed at least that much" I think if you can't make that much on a regular basis, you're in the wrong business! She told me point blank it's because I have "fake titties" and she says that must be why I make so much money, even though guys tell her they don't like "fake titties". What the fuck? I see why you don't make money, you're totally unpleasant and a HATER!

    Also, the same night, a bachelor party full of young guys was in, and a brunette was working the loudest guy and the bachelor. I walk by, and the girl must have just asked the loud one for a dance. He says loudly enough for me to hear "it's a toss up between you and her". Loud one grabs me, decides he wants me, announces that to both of us, and pawns the other girl off on the bachelor. He bought one dance for the bachelor, and ended up buying five dances from me. This girl was PISSED, but what was I supposed to do? Refuse to lap dance on principle? She spent 10 minutes talking to him, but the dude stated to me he wanted to "buy dances from a blonde" because all the girls he's ever slept with have been brunettes. I didn't even say a word to the guy! I didn't approach him! It's just business! I just got lucky!

    Am I the only one who thinks that healthy competition is GOOD for business? If you can't handle being rejected THEN GET A DIFFERENT JOB WHERE YOUR EARNINGS ARE NOT BASED ON COMPETITION AND SALESMANSHIP AND STOP BEING A MISERABLE BITCH.
    Last edited by ViolaStrings; 01-13-2007 at 04:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Glamazon
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    So, now it's considered cutthroat to be good looking and on point? Shit, I better watch my back, because that's a good way to get my ass kicked!

  3. #3
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Man, I'm suprised I haven't been jumped in the parking lot by now!

  4. #4
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Um.
    Agreeing to dance for a customer who asks you to is not generally considered either discourteous or cut throat (although it is sometimes embarrassing for the girl sitting there - so we should all be sensitive and deferential in those circumstances). However approaching a customer another girl is sitting with is not just cut throat, it is rude and inappropriate. So you can be pretty mad.

    As for the rest - it's not that I think you are wrong, but at the same time. If you are 40, still in the business and not making money etc., don't you think maybe she is having a hard enough time? Maybe you don't need to tell her that she is in the wrong business and rub your comparative success in her face? Maybe you can just let her feel better by blaming your tits? Again - if she's having a hard time, maybe a little sensitivity and deference are in order rather than "It's not my fault you're such an ugly loser!"
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  5. #5
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    See? You guys see what I'm saying! I work hard to look good and I sell hard. So many girls have the attitude that guys are OBLIGATED to spend their money on them, and if they don't, they're cheap bastards! WTF?! Customers can be boneheads, for sure, just like in any other business, but mean strippers are pretty awful! If you have this Us Vs. Them mentality and aren't having fun, guys sense that and you will have to bust your ass for every dollar you make and just be MORE misearble.

    SNOWBALL EFFECT. Early in the evening guys don't spend tons of money. This puts a lot of girls in sour moods, who take it out on the customers. The customers are drunk by the middle of the night, the dancers are even PISSIER, and everyone is goddamned miserable. If you retain any semblence of common courtesy and pride in your appearance, you'll bank.

  6. #6
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Um.
    Agreeing to dance for a customer who asks you to is not generally considered either discourteous or cut throat (although it is sometimes embarrassing for the girl sitting there - so we should all be sensitive and deferential in those circumstances). However approaching a customer another girl is sitting with is not just cut throat, it is rude and inappropriate. So you can be pretty mad.

    As for the rest - it's not that I think you are wrong, but at the same time. If you are 40, still in the business and not making money etc., don't you think maybe she is having a hard enough time? Maybe you don't need to tell her that she is in the wrong business and rub your comparative success in her face? Maybe you can just let her feel better by blaming your tits? Again - if she's having a hard time, maybe a little sensitivity and deference are in order rather than "It's not my fault you're such an ugly loser!"
    Embarassing? Of course! Just business? Absolutely.

    I am a big advocate of common courtesy and playing fair, but at the same time I understand that strip club patrons are consumers and can spend their money however they please. I would never approach a guy who was already seated with another dancer, but I also wouldn't condemn the girl who could get the guy to spend money with "wanna dance" when the other one can't after a long conversation. Polite? Hell no. A cardinal sin? Nah.

    The ringleader hating on my boobies is a YOUNG dancer commiserating with the older dancer. The older dancer HAS a breast augmentation.

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    Senior Member destiny2980's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Anytime I have ever been picked rudly(sp?) over another girl like that I will always ask if he has taken care of my friend before we go dance. And try to smooth it over with the dancer before we even leave the table. Like say " Well Ill do my best to get you warmed up for so and so. Shes a great dancer maybe later we can do a double dance for you?"

    It dosent always come back to you if you help another girl out like that but karma always comes back around.

  8. #8
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    Embarassing? Of course! Just business? Absolutely.
    Well, that is why you can absolutely go and dance, but be polite and deferential at the same time. I'm sure you were - I was just adding it explicitly as an important element.

    I am a big advocate of common courtesy and playing fair, but at the same time I understand that strip club patrons are consumers and can spend their money however they please. I would never approach a guy who was already seated with another dancer, but I also wouldn't condemn the girl who could get the guy to spend money with "wanna dance" when the other one can't after a long conversation. Polite? Hell no. A cardinal sin? Nah.
    I disagree. Although long conversation are not always polite or appropriate either, I would say that approaching a guy with a "wanna dance" while another girl is sitting there IS a cardinal sin, and is among the rudest, most disrespectful, least collegiate and least professional behaviours in a strip club. You can't be an advocate of courtesy and fair play and still be okay with that. Yes, customers can spend money how they want, but just like any other work environment and sales environment there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to approach customers; interpreting another professional solely to steal her or his customer is inappropriate everywhere.

    The ringleader hating on my boobies is a YOUNG dancer commiserating with the older dancer. The older dancer HAS a breast augmentation.
    Okay. Great. I'm not sure how much that changes my point - which is that sometimes, unless people really want your advice (which they clearly did not) it is better to let them interpret their own failure in whatever way is softest to them. This business is rough; there is no need to rub failure in other girls faces.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  9. #9
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Okay. Great. I'm not sure how much that changes my point - which is that sometimes, unless people really want your advice (which they clearly did not) it is better to let them interpret their own failure in whatever way is softest to them. This business is rough; there is no need to rub failure in other girls faces.
    They were ready to LITERALLY JUMP this girl and kick her ass for walking by, and accepting his offer for a lap dance. Isn't it pretty obvious he wanted to ditch the squatter and the other dancer did nothing wrong?

  10. #10
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by destiny2980 View Post
    Anytime I have ever been picked rudly(sp?) over another girl like that I will always ask if he has taken care of my friend before we go dance. And try to smooth it over with the dancer before we even leave the table. Like say " Well Ill do my best to get you warmed up for so and so. Shes a great dancer maybe later we can do a double dance for you?"

    It dosent always come back to you if you help another girl out like that but karma always comes back around.
    That is the best way to handle it, I agree. But sometimes even then the offended girl isn't going to be satisfied.

  11. #11
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I disagree. Although long conversation are not always polite or appropriate either, I would say that approaching a guy with a "wanna dance" while another girl is sitting there IS a cardinal sin, and is among the rudest, most disrespectful, least collegiate and least professional behaviours in a strip club. You can't be an advocate of courtesy and fair play and still be okay with that. Yes, customers can spend money how they want, but just like any other work environment and sales environment there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to approach customers; interpreting another professional solely to steal her or his customer is inappropriate everywhere.
    Agree, it is bad etiquette. I'd never do it, but I don't think it's exactly the kind of behavior that justifies threatening seriously to physically assault someone else.

  12. #12
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    They were ready to LITERALLY JUMP this girl and kick her ass for walking by, and accepting his offer for a lap dance. Isn't it pretty obvious he wanted to ditch the squatter and the other dancer did nothing wrong?
    Yes. The other dancer did nothing wrong. I was really more taking issue with other points in your post - stating that it is acceptable to sit and hustle a customer while another girl is sitting there if she hasn't already made a sale, and that somehow sitting in the changeroom explaining to low earners that they are ugly losers (You make an aboslute maximum of $250 a night? Wow. That sucks. I hardly EVER make less than that. It must suck being old and ugly like you) is diffusing the conflict. You aren't helping anyone by making them feel worse - just something to think about. Next time maybe a little more sensitivity might be in order.

    Agree, it is bad etiquette. I'd never do it, but I don't think it's exactly the kind of behavior that justifies threatening seriously to physically assault someone else.
    I don't either. I think if you had that situation you would have a bunch of very unprofessional dancers. Fortunately, in this case all you had was a girl innocently and appropriately accepting an offer, and people bitching in the changeroom.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  13. #13
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Yes. The other dancer did nothing wrong. I was really more taking issue with other points in your post - stating that it is acceptable to sit and hustle a customer while another girl is sitting there if she hasn't already made a sale, and that somehow sitting in the changeroom explaining to low earners that they are ugly losers (You make an aboslute maximum of $250 a night? Wow. That sucks. I hardly EVER make less than that. It must suck being old and ugly like you) is diffusing the conflict. You aren't helping anyone by making them feel worse - just something to think about. Next time maybe a little more sensitivity might be in order.
    I don't interject my opinion often, but DAMN. If she's struggling to live at a poverty level as a dancer, WHY would she keep dancing? You could go be a telemarketer in this town and make $15 an hour or be a paralegal (the firms around here train and start at $40k a year!), instead of physically threatening others and blaming them for your lack of income. These girls were PIPED up.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    I don't interject my opinion often, but DAMN. If she's struggling to live at a poverty level as a dancer, WHY would she keep dancing? You could go be a telemarketer in this town and make $15 an hour or be a paralegal (the firms around here train and start at $40k a year!), instead of physically threatening others and blaming them for your lack of income. These girls were PIPED up.
    I think that all the time. However, it is hurtful and pointless to say that to people, hon.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I think that all the time. However, it is hurtful and pointless to say that to people, hon.
    Agree. I didn't say THAT to her, and normally I wouldn't interject my opinion into dressing room drama, but this was one of those incidents that were so silly and irritating that I couldn't keep my mouth shut. Could you imagine girls talking about kicking your ass simply because a customer wanted a dance from you as you walk by and not the girl who's been trying to work him for half an hour?

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    Agree. I didn't say THAT to her, and normally I wouldn't interject my opinion into dressing room drama, but this was one of those incidents that were so silly and irritating that I couldn't keep my mouth shut.
    It's not that I fault you for taking the girl's side. It's just that reminding them that they are exotic dance failures is unlikely to diffuse any conflict. It makes them feel worse, and then they go and further project those bad feelings on their scapegoat. I fully agree that they were wrong in this instance. I should have stressed that more. It's always nice to have a point of agreement to start from.

    Could you imagine girls talking about kicking your ass simply because a customer wanted a dance from you as you walk by and not the girl who's been trying to work him for half an hour?
    Unfortunately, I can. Girls aren't always particularly understanding about understanding that someone else is just more desirable to guys, so many are very prepared to blame the girl, and to insist that she has DONE something.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  17. #17
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Viola String, you did nothing wrong! Everything you said to those "haters" made absolute sense! Maybe they just don't know how to take constructive criticism.

    The brunette who was working the bachelor party shouldn't have gotten pissed if the loud-mouthed guy still bought a dance for her. Sure, maybe it wasn't 5 dances and maybe it wasn't with the loud-mouthed guy himself, but he still invested $20(or whatever the cost of a dance is) in her! And if I were her, I woulda gotten pissed at the loud-mouthed guy insteada you...after all, it wasn't *your* fault that the loud-mouthed guy chose to take 10mins of free convo and then run over to you! Then again, it IS a free country so I don't even think the loud-mouthed guy did much wrong.

    If I were the brunette, the only time that I woulda been pissed, is if I spent time talking to the loud-mouthed guy and he made all these promises to get dances, and then ditched me without buying me a dance with his friend. Or, if he ditched me and then pawned me off to a disinterested friend of his without buying a dance, leaving me looking like an "ass" by approaching a guy who the loud-mouthed guy knew to be disinterested. I would mostly only be pissed because then I would feel as if I was the cheap butt of some catty joke between the bachelor party...kinda like the infamous bad fruit cake that gets tossed around between family members every Christmas. I've had that happen before, and it really annoyed me. But I think the loud-mouthed guy handled it good...he told her straight-up that it was a "toss-up" between her and you, plus he paid for a dance so that she still made some money.
    Last edited by PhillyDancer1982; 01-13-2007 at 06:32 PM. Reason: spelling error

  18. #18
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    It's not that I fault you for taking the girl's side. It's just that reminding them that they are exotic dance failures is unlikely to diffuse any conflict. It makes them feel worse, and then they go and further project those bad feelings on their scapegoat. I fully agree that they were wrong in this instance. I should have stressed that more. It's always nice to have a point of agreement to start from.


    Unfortunately, I can. Girls aren't always particularly understanding about understanding that someone else is just more desirable to guys, so many are very prepared to blame the girl, and to insist that she has DONE something.
    Exotic dance failures - lmao!

  19. #19
    God/dess ViolaStrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyDancer1982 View Post
    Viola String, you did nothing wrong! Everything you said to those "haters" made absolute sense! Maybe they just don't know how to take constructive criticism.

    The brunette who was working the bachelor party shouldn't have gotten pissed if the loud-mouthed guy still bought a dance for her. Sure, maybe it wasn't 5 dances and maybe it wasn't with the loud-mouthed guy himself, but he still invested $20(or whatever the cost of a dance is) in her! And if I were her, I woulda gotten pissed at the loud-mouthed guy insteada you...after all, it wasn't *your* fault that the loud-mouthed guy chose to take 10mins of free convo and then run over to you! Then again, it IS a free country so I don't even think the loud-mouthed guy did much wrong.

    If I were the brunette, the only time that I woulda been pissed, is if I spent time talking to the loud-mouthed guy and he made all these promises to get dances, and then ditched me without buying me a dance with his friend. Or, if he ditched me and then pawned me off to a disinterested friend of his without buying a dance, leaving me looking like an "ass" by approaching a guy who the loud-mouthed guy knew to be disinterested. I would mostly only be pissed because then I would feel as if I was the cheap butt of some catty joke between the bachelor party...kinda like the infamous bad fruit cake that gets tossed around between family members every Christmas. I've had that happen before, and it really annoyed me. But I think the loud-mouthed guy handled it good...he told her straight-up that it was a "toss-up" between her and you, plus he paid for a dance so that she still made some money.
    You know what situations like this remind me of? When a guy is cheating on his girlfriend, tells the other girl he's single, and the cheated-upon girl has a problem with the girl her BF is cheating with. It's not her fault! Why do you want to wreck her?

  20. #20
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    You know what situations like this remind me of? When a guy is cheating on his girlfriend, tells the other girl he's single, and the cheated-upon girl has a problem with the girl her BF is cheating with. It's not her fault! Why do you want to wreck her?
    Yes I agree!! I always think the same thing when I am watching an episode of Jerry Springer and see two girls assaulting each other because their man-whore of a boyfriend is two-timing. Stupid girls!

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    God/dess VegasPrincess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut throat or free market economy?

    It is business. I think we've all asked a guy for a dance, walked away and noticed moments later that he was getting a dance for another girl. I'm a little blonde girl, not everyone likes that. Point blank, you need to possess the peopel smarts to tell wether a guy is into you, or not. This is a taxing job, as you are laying yourself on the line and if someone rejects you in a rude way, it does hurt. Now if I was the girl who got grabbed by the guy sitting with the lady who talks like a line cook, lol, I probably would have tried to work in a double dance with her or some shit, but if he didn't want to, I wouldn't turn down the money. I've been in VIP doing a double before with my good friend and a guy (politely) told her he wanted to do another hour, but just with me. Yes I felt shitty about it but what could I do? I didn't try to strong arm her out of the vip room!! I basically leave it up to the customer. It is NASTY and CUT THROAT to do certain things, but what you're talking about is not them. You better grow a thick skin if you plan on making it in this business.

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