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Thread: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

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    Default from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Actually, the 'tin foil hat' crowd is speculating that GWB is acceeding to Democrat positions for strategic reasons re the 2008 election.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    So has Schwarzenegger, sadly. I did have such high hopes for him.

    I do eagerly await to see which party will die and become replaced! Hopefully the Republican Party will fizzle into oblivion and merge with the Constitution Party, and the Libertarian Party will give genuine conservatives a political voice once more. Could happen.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    ^^^ yup ... as evidenced by a significant number of Senate and House republicans deciding to vote with Democrats against GWB's earlier positions. That's what happens when the number of registered voters who receive checks from the gov't become the majority and the number of registered voters who actually pay lots of taxes become a minority.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    ^^^ Which was a major factor in the collapse of Rome. You'd think we'd have learned, but no!

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    A Democracy is in a decline when the People learn to vote themselves a portion of the Treasury.

    Welcome to the time of Bread and Circuses

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    A Democracy is in a decline when the People learn to vote themselves a portion of the Treasury.

    Welcome to the time of Bread and Circuses
    I can flip on the news and see the circus every day. Plenty of stories about Hollywood celebrities, the next movies that are coming, news about snow storms during winter (duh), months and months of missing blond girl stories, along with Kudlow and Co. telling me it is all fine and dandy.


    Meanwhile... I contemplate what we don't know....

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    The tinfoil hat brigade is advocating a years supply of food, multiple ways to purify drinking water, and converting liquid assets to precious metals.

    On the Self Reliance boards there have been more People than before Y2K asking how to prepare for emergencies. I don't mean ignorant people but doctors, lawyers, and others with PHDs and MAs.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Are precious metals really going to be worth anything when we're fighting each other for food?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    ^^^ yup, providing that I already own a 10mm pistol, a 30.06 rifle, etc. with plenty of ammunition and know how to use them (along with all of my neighbors) if you attempt to rip off my food or gold bars in a civil unrest scenario ! Those gold bars will allow me to trade with those very same neighbors for needed goods and services that I can't provide for myself.

    However, I certainly don't envy the typical suburban residents of blue states, who don't have guns and aren't allowed to buy them, who don't know / trust the majority of their neighbors, and who are totally dependent on local police to deter criminal transgressions into their refrigerator or wall safe ! To make matters worse, they will be unable to replace what was stolen as the grocery stores, the trucks bringing food to those grocery stores etc. will also be likely targets for criminal transgression.

    For the history buffs, I suggest you research the true origin of the word 'Vandal' !!!

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Are precious metals really going to be worth anything when we're fighting each other for food?
    When fiat currency (Federal Reserve Notes) are worthless you will need something in which to barter for good and services you cannot provide for yourself. That requires barter and something both parties value to complete the exchange.

    Modern America for 90% (guessing #'s) is totally reliant upon groceries for procurement of food. Most modern homes lack a pantry and most grocery stores at best have a three day supply of food. With an interruption of the food shipping business such as a lack of diesel by about day eight dogs, cats, squirrels, and pidgeons are going to be depleting rapidly in urban areas. Look what happens every time a hurricane is about to land or ice storm strike; panic buying, theft, and violence. The hordes of unprepared suddenly break away from entertainovision and must do something.

    How about our friends in States right now hit by the Ice Storm. Been to the Grocery? I bet it is a lot like Colorado with the triple round of blizzards. Empty shelves. Trucks are not delivering.

    Best Food pantry advice I could give anyone. Two things Variety of things you will eat, and Rotation of stocks so that the oldest is used first.

    America is heading for an Argentine Meltdown

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Yeah, I'm saying that precious metals are useless in an economy like that. Gold is essentially useless; you can't eat it, it won't protect you from violent people, you can't grow food with it, etc. Sure, you can trade it if the other party values it... but how long would people value useless metal in a societal collapse?

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Silver and Gold will return to being the basis of exchange. Precious metals wil set the "value" of goods exchanged when a society pulls itself to gether and civilization starts up again.

    Precious Metals don't have the immediate value like you listed (can't eat it, doesn't protect you, and it doesn't grow food) which is why the stress on a year (or more!) strored food and multiple means of purifying water.

    Oh there are thousands of other things you could or should have. Medications, extra eyeglasses, matches, camp stove and fuel, Fem hygiene products, Glock 17 and ammo to protect your stuff, non hybrid garden seeds, garden tools, fishing gear, etc etc.

    Owning precious metals now makes y6ou the nouveau riche when civilzation comes back with all its rewards.

    Don't think of it as societal collapse think of it as societal reset..

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Glock 17
    That'll get the job done ( 9mm I assume ?)

    Personally, I went for a Baby Eagle in .40 with aftermarket barrel, night sight, and 15 round clips of flash supressed Silvertip 155 grain JHP. I also forgot to mention that I keep a 20 gage pump shotgun handy as well. If I were any bigger physically I'd go for something even heavier, but at 5'3" I'm better off going with lighter loads that I can control and fire in rapid succession, as the most likely civil unrest scenario says that any potential perpetrators will probably not be acting alone.

    Sure, you can trade it if the other party values it... but how long would people value useless metal in a societal collapse?
    As the Sarge is saying, the gold bars really aren't useful in a civil unrest scenario - but then again neither are dollar bills. If and when the 'system' starts breaking down, you're pretty much going to left living on what you started with - provided that you can keep other people from stealing it ! The real value of gold bars is, precisely as Sarge said, having something of value to help you to start over again. In a start over again scenario, the paper money lesson of Weimar Germany clearly indicates that dollar bills or bank accounts / investments denominated in dollars will probably be of extremely little value.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    That'll get the job done ( 9mm I assume ?)

    Personally, I went for a Baby Eagle in .40 with aftermarket barrel, night sight, and 15 round clips of flash supressed Silvertip 155 grain JHP. I also forgot to mention that I keep a 20 gage pump shotgun handy as well. If I were any bigger physically I'd go for something even heavier, but at 5'3" I'm better off going with lighter loads that I can control and fire in rapid succession, as the most likely civil unrest scenario says that any potential perpetrators will probably not be acting alone.
    A Glock 17 (9mm) was the first firearm I ever purchased and I still have it today. It is the semi auto Irecommend the most to first gun owners. Excellent reputation, widely used, and in service with several Armies. Many Police depts used them or still do so used for $350 with night sights (tritium) is not uncommon. 17 round magazines with 33 round magazines available factory made. You can shoot cheap Blazer or Fiocchi ball ammo for aound $7.50 a box of 50 for practice and load Federal Hydra shoks of Winchester Silvertip +p for personal protection. So many holsters, bags, and purses for concealed carry made specifically for this model. Medium sized frame so even with a 17 round double stack magazine it is comfortable for most with small hands.

    This is a G22 but all glocks look the same

    The 20 Guage gets a nod from me. Shotguns have to be aimed especially at close range, it can be twenty yards before the pellets seperate into a pattern. Shotguns are considered close comabat weapons with a max effective arnge of 75-100 yards. What rifle are you considering for beyond that?

    A Baby Eagle in .40... Good choice everything Israeli Military Industries makes has been great.

    I have a Sprinfield Armory M1911A1 w/ Novak low profile night sights and 3 eight round Wilson Combat magazines for concealed carry. I am thinking of going bact to the Glock 17 because it is lighter and more compact thought i would rather have .45ACP. My gunsafe has an AR-15 (M4orgery) with 8+ magazines in a chest harness for bad days. Once I have a stash of spare parts and have practiced more the SOCOM 16 will replace that in situations where I feel someone is really planning to hurt me or family.

    Those don't go everywhere but the pack that in the car trunk with 7 days of food, 3 water bottles, water purifier, trauma kit, space blanket, spare socks, tshirts.....etc etc That does go everywhere. That will get me home or atleast gey me by if there little chaos.

    Hmmmmm thread drift. Ok so I need to read up on this libertarian candidate from Texas..... Ummm Ron Paul I think? Supposed to be a Senator. Who knows this is supposed to be a record breaking election again with more than a Billion raised by candidates. Crazy. I guess I won't vote for any incumbents unless I can't stand the opposed. I really just want somebody Right Wing that will give Small business tax breaks, repeal the Patriot act (among others), Reduce and Consolidate the crippling plethora of Govt agencies, quit giving out carrots and use the big stick on our Enemies, and well alot of things. *sigh* I guy can dream right?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    What rifle are you considering for beyond that?
    I already have a Remington 742 in 30.06 with 10 round aftermarket clips and Hornaday A-Max light loads. Even with the light loads that sucker still kicks like a mule with a 5'3" girl shooting it, but at least with the light loads I can recover and take another accurate shot reasonably quickly. The Hornaday light loads are also virtually flashless, which I personally consider to be extremely important in a scenario of several chicken-shit assholes with guns of their own trying to intimidate and overwhelm a """ defenseless """ girl in the dark ! I also looked at the Springfields and liked them even better, but since I live very close to Remington's plant I was able to get a super deal on a factory 'second'.

    As to pistol calibre, I would prefer a 45 as well for the 'stopping power' , but to be very honest I can't control the kick. Magnaporting seems to solve the problem (based on some pistol range experience with a friend's magnaported S&W 625), but the resulting muzzle flash goes directly against my theory of not 'announcing' your position in the dark. So I'm stuck with the .40 as the biggest calibre that I can handle and still be able to take reasonably accurate shots in rapid succession. This was actually the reason I chose a Baby Eagle too, as the extra front mass helps reduce the kick as well - I couldn't handle a friends Glock 27 (also .40) anywhere near as well as the Baby Eagle.

    As far as gold bars go in a civil unrest scenario itself, the one thing that everybody who wants to come through such a situation relatively unscathed will absolutely need and will be unable to store in sufficient quantity is gasoline / diesel fuel ... to run generators, to fuel farm vehicles, even to keep your house from freezing. I've got a 500 gallon farm gas tank that I try to keep full, but even that's not likely to last all that long. In a civil unrest situation of disrupted deliveries, extremely short supplies etc., this is where the ability to pay in gold will be worth its weight in gold (assuming that things don't get as bad as Mad Max / Road Warrior, at which point everybody would be screwed) !

    You're also correct that this thread has gone way off the original point ... as well as the astute observation that the day of Bread and Circuses has already (re)arrived, soon to be followed (again) by an attack of 'Vandals' !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-20-2007 at 12:38 PM.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I already have a Remington 742 in 30.06 with 10 round aftermarket clips and Hornaday A-Max light loads. Even with the light loads that sucker still kicks like a mule with a 5'3" girl shooting it,
    Kudos to you. I have seen plenty of husky guys complain about the recoil of the ol "ought six". Why not an AR or AK clone or even less threatening like a M1 carbine?
    Great protection out most engagement ranges, will fit your stature more comfortably. The Laws of War don't apply so soft points and hollow points are prefered. Like I said I have an AR not as hard hitting and doesn't reach out as far; it is still enough medicine for unpleasant societal collapse scenarios.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    but at least with the light loads I can recover and take another accurate shot reasonably quickly. The Hornaday light loads are also virtually flashless, which I personally consider to be extremely important in a scenario of several chicken-shit assholes with guns of their own trying to intimidate and overwhelm a """ defenseless """ girl in the dark ! I also looked at the Springfields and liked them even better, but since I live very close to Remington's plant I was able to get a super deal on a factory 'second'.
    Yep muzzle flash does give away your position and good thinking ahead on the light recoil loads. Having your weapon and knowing how to use it sets you ahead. Staying back ijnside structures like a minimum of 12 inches inside windows will reduce the visible flash. (FM 90-10). Thinking ahead on how to protect against raiders is an necessity. .308 will plow through 30" of pine boards and keep going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    As to pistol calibre, I would prefer a 45 as well for the 'stopping power' , but to be very honest I can't control the kick. Magnaporting seems to solve the problem (based on some pistol range experience with a friend's magnaported S&W 625), but the resulting muzzle flash goes directly against my theory of not 'announcing' your position in the dark. So I'm stuck with the .40 as the biggest calibre that I can handle and still be able to take reasonably accurate shots in rapid succession. This was actually the reason I chose a Baby Eagle too, as the extra front mass helps reduce the kick as well - I couldn't handle a friends Glock 27 (also .40) anywhere near as well as the Baby Eagle.
    I don't recommend magna porting on anything used for self defense. It is like a flash camera on the end of the rifle or pistol that blinds your eye with each shot. There are various wrist exercises out there that will strengthen your forearms and tame recoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    As far as gold bars go in a civil unrest scenario itself, the one thing that everybody who wants to come through such a situation relatively unscathed will absolutely need and will be unable to store in sufficient quantity is gasoline / diesel fuel ... to run generators, to fuel farm vehicles, even to keep your house from freezing. I've got a 500 gallon farm gas tank that I try to keep full, but even that's not likely to last all that long. In a civil unrest situation of disrupted deliveries, extremely short supplies etc., this is where the ability to pay in gold will be worth its weight in gold (assuming that things don't get as bad as Mad Max / Road Warrior, at which point everybody would be screwed) !
    Keep an eye out for earth bermed or underground tanks.... Business sometimes sell them off when closing operations. Diesel fuel is even more important. It is the blood that sustains the economy. One thing that will cause a collapse is when diesel fuel becomes to expensive and/or to scarce to support the trucks and trains that bring us the food and other necessities. The cost of fuel I think is one of the primary contributors to rising costs every where else.

    I don't know how much land you have but you could consider a small scale bio diesel outfit and convert grain oils (canola, sunflower, etc) into fuel. This will a co generation unit would be bring you savings right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    You're also correct that this thread has gone way off the original point ... as well as the astute observation that the day of Bread and Circuses has already (re)arrived, soon to be followed (again) by an attack of 'Vandals' !

    ~
    When Pax Americana falters I hope that the next Representative Deomcracy that comes along read our works. Learns from our experiment and rights a Constitution that is fair and will sustain it.


    Ok and to genuflect at the Original post. While I would like to see Ron Paul be President just to spite the Democrats and the Republicans. I would rather see a Libertarian Congress and Senate. I would like to see what a Libertarian Congress and Senate would accomplish though i think the method would be painful even if the outcome would be beneficial.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Kudos to you. I have seen plenty of husky guys complain about the recoil of the ol "ought six". Why not an AR or AK clone or even less threatening like a M1 carbine?
    two reasons ... the first is Body Armor ! I figure that even though 'marauders' are likely to be chicken shits, they're not going to be totally stupid. These days there are 1000 places that individuals can come up with body armor, from surplus police vests to internet sales of top-line stuff, to simply ripping off a sporting goods store ! Even a lightly loaded 30.06 will overcome body armor, whereas the 7mm's will bounce off.

    The second reason is that by living in NY I have problems buying anything classified as as an 'assault' weapon vs a 'hunting' weapon. Thanks to well meaning downstate New Yorkers, they have assured that the 'marauders' will have the advantage of using 'illegal assault weapons' i.e. AK, M1 etc. while law abiding New Yorkers like me are stuck with hunting rifles to defend ourselves !

    I am giving some serious thought to a new Benelli R1 in .270 WSM though, despite the fact that the 140 grain steel reinforced ammo needed to make this weapon useful against body armor in a self defense scenario is somewhat of an 'orphan stepchild'. But it is the lightest, smallest weapon available to me legally in NY that has all of the features and capabilities needed to 'get the job done'. I'm still wrestling with the premise of spending close to $1500 on a fully outfitted R1 with night scope, so I'll risk a dislocated shoulder with the 30.06 for a while longer I guess !

    There are various wrist exercises out there that will strengthen your forearms and tame recoil.
    been there done that just to be able to handle the .40 which was a major step up from the .38s and 9mm's I grew up with (but which are about useless today in terms of 'stopping power'). Ultimately, no matter how strong your muscles are, when you're 5'3" and your body weight is 135 lbs, the physics of recoil are what they are. Actually, all dancers that regularly do pole work don't have any serious shortcomings in the wrist/arm strength department !


    I don't know how much land you have but you could consider a small scale bio diesel outfit and convert grain oils (canola, sunflower, etc) into fuel. This will a co generation unit would be bring you savings right now.
    Actually my neighbors are heavy into corn ethanol already (thanks to generous handouts of YOUR federal tax money as well as mine LOL). There will be enough ethanol fuel to go around, but I will need something of real value to buy it (thus the virtue of gold bars). I don't have anywhere enough property or farm equipment to justify setting up my own biofuel operation - I'm a 'large scale gardener' not a farmer.

    While I would like to see Ron Paul be President just to spite the Democrats and the Republicans. I would rather see a Libertarian Congress and Senate. I would like to see what a Libertarian Congress and Senate would accomplish though i think the method would be painful even if the outcome would be beneficial.
    IMHO since the 1930's there are no longer many Americans who could function in a Libertarian 'world'. They've become totally dependent on police, courts, gov't services - plus dependence on practicing a narrow specialty to earn their living and hiring someone else to perform tasks that they can't perform themselves, rather than developing the ability to perform a wide variety of such 'basic' tasks themselves.

    For example, ask yourself just how many people today know how to successfully grow and can / preserve their own food, let alone how many actually have the equipment and supplies to do it ! Perhaps a more important question to ask is how many people have the knowledge to successfully defend themselves against a band of 'marauders', let alone the 'equipment and supplies' to do it. This is why I truly do worry about people who have committed themselves to the suburban lifestyle. In the absence of stocked supermarket shelves, in the absence of police patrols, in the absence of a continuing need for their own specialty services, and in the absence of nearby friends / family / neighbors who are willing and able to watch out for and help each other, middle class suburbanites will truly be left with nothing in a civil unrest scenario.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-21-2007 at 02:33 AM.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    two reasons ... the first is Body Armor ! I figure that even though 'marauders' are likely to be chicken shits, they're not going to be totally stupid. These days there are 1000 places that individuals can come up with body armor, from surplus police vests to internet sales of top-line stuff, to simply ripping off a sporting goods store ! Even a lightly loaded 30.06 will overcome body armor, whereas the 7mm's will bounce off.
    With Class I through Class IIIA any projectile fired from a rifle with penetrate. With most hard armor plates Such as the Class IV most bullets including rifle bullets will bounce off. If the rifle bullet is fired from less than 100 meters than it will penetrate a Class IV or if the bullet was designed to be armor piercing of course. the Interceptor body armor that Soldiers are wearing today will stop even these by shattering and absorbing the kinetic impact. Unfortunately Interceptors will be available to the marauders now from unscrupulous sellers at flea markets surrounding Ft Drum. So this is not an unlikely scenario given your location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    The second reason is that by living in NY I have problems buying anything classified as as an 'assault' weapon vs a 'hunting' weapon. Thanks to well meaning downstate New Yorkers, they have assured that the 'marauders' will have the advantage of using 'illegal assault weapons' i.e. AK, M1 etc. while law abiding New Yorkers like me are stuck with hunting rifles to defend ourselves !
    I wasn't paying attention to where you lived but, if someone had asked I would have guessed AZ. Don't know why. Anyhoo thats a bummer. Can the rest of the State secede from NYC? So we have the problem of how do you counter legally what your threat can do illegally? The unequal fire power is difficult without legally acquired NFA arms. Depending on the materials your house is made of (straw bales are proof against many calibers) a small number of defenders can make a place do difficult as to be not worth it. Can even be camouflaged in suburban socially acceptable architecture.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I am giving some serious thought to a new Benelli R1 in .270 WSM though, despite the fact that the 140 grain steel reinforced ammo needed to make this weapon useful against body armor in a self defense scenario is somewhat of an 'orphan stepchild'. But it is the lightest, smallest weapon available to me legally in NY that has all of the features and capabilities needed to 'get the job done'. I'm still wrestling with the premise of spending close to $1500 on a fully outfitted R1 with night scope, so I'll risk a dislocated shoulder with the 30.06 for a while longer I guess !
    Actually there is a cheaper alternative. During WW2 30.06 Armor Piercing ammunition was commonly available so what does this mean? Check a few gun shows as the bullets (black tipped) were pulled from this ammunition so the cases could be reused to load hunting ammo more cheaply. You should find the bullets available at shows or over the internet and be able to have them seated in cases with a powder load you would find comfortable.



    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    been there done that just to be able to handle the .40 which was a major step up from the .38s and 9mm's I grew up with (but which are about useless today in terms of 'stopping power'). Ultimately, no matter how strong your muscles are, when you're 5'3" and your body weight is 135 lbs, the physics of recoil are what they are. Actually, all dancers that regularly do pole work don't have any serious shortcomings in the wrist/arm strength department !
    I hadn't even considered the Pole work. Totally wouldn't have thought of that. That is a benefit. Weak wrists is a problem in some autos as it can cause a failure to feed. I haven't been to a civilian shootng school but here are many that a justly famous. One is on my to do list.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually my neighbors are heavy into corn ethanol already (thanks to generous handouts of YOUR federal tax money as well as mine LOL). There will be enough ethanol fuel to go around, but I will need something of real value to buy it (thus the virtue of gold bars). I don't have anywhere enough property or farm equipment to justify setting up my own biofuel operation - I'm a 'large scale gardener' not a farmer.
    If I had a choice in how my tax money was spent. I am thinking it is not so bad spent to start up renewable fuels and start a small business. I have read alot on biodiesel alot. I haven't made the switch myself but there is enough incentive to do so. I have read where ethanols are very hard on gaskets and seals within gasoline engines. Those are the right kind of neighbors to have. One less worry since you and your neighbor can join together and share burdens versus the poor folks in the inner city and the burbs that will be fighting each other for anything edible. I consider you quite lucky. Are you a non hybrid heirloom gardener?



    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    IMHO since the 1930's there are no longer many Americans who could function in a Libertarian 'world'. They've become totally dependent on police, courts, gov't services - plus dependence on practicing a narrow specialty to earn their living and hiring someone else to perform tasks that they can't perform themselves, rather than developing the ability to perform a wide variety of such 'basic' tasks themselves.
    This isn't getting better soon. Add to this the new cultural bias against Trades and any job that has a physical component. Funny how "gifted" one is if they can knit, build furniture, sew their own clothing, or grow a garden. That was just what people did only 50 years ago. I missed the chance to sit with my Grandparents and learn these practical things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    For example, ask yourself just how many people today know how to successfully grow and can / preserve their own food, let alone how many actually have the equipment and supplies to do it ! Perhaps a more important question to ask is how many people have the knowledge to successfully defend themselves against a band of 'marauders', let alone the 'equipment and supplies' to do it. This is why I truly do worry about people who have committed themselves to the suburban lifestyle. In the absence of stocked supermarket shelves, in the absence of police patrols, in the absence of a continuing need for their own specialty services, and in the absence of nearby friends / family / neighbors who are willing and able to watch out for and help each other, middle class suburbanites will truly be left with nothing in a civil unrest scenario.

    ~
    To few; far, far to few. Enough have the skills to be the Marauders or Raiders to the tinfoil hats. Famine caused by a break down will be worse than the thirties with todays people. It will be horrific.
    Last edited by ArmySGT.; 01-28-2007 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Arrgh my typing is crap

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Are you a non hybrid heirloom gardener?
    As much as I can be ! Absolute zero on GE seeds too. I actually use imported ladybugs instead of insecticide too, which my grandmorther obtained 30 years ago and which have been breeding happily in her (now my) back yard ever since.

    During WW2 30.06 Armor Piercing ammunition was commonly available so what does this mean? Check a few gun shows as the bullets were pulled from this ammunition so the cases could be reused to load hunting ammo more cheaply
    You missed the point a bit. My objective was to reduce calibre from 30.06 to .270 in order to improve control and reduce kick, while still maintaining the ability to punch a hole in class IIIA body armor if worst comes to worst. Steel jacketed .270 ammo isn't very easy to come by. I guess all that really means is that if I decide to spring for the Beretta .270 rifle that I'll also have to purchase a couple of thousand rounds of steel jacketed .270 ammo at the same time. So far I have avoided getting into reloading myself, but my neighbors certainly have the presses and scales to do it for me if those 2000 rounds run out before 'civilization' returns !

    Add to this the new cultural bias against Trades and any job that has a physical component. Funny how "gifted" one is if they can knit, build furniture, sew their own clothing, or grow a garden. That was just what people did only 50 years ago. I missed the chance to sit with my Grandparents and learn these practical things.
    well, fortunately, my grandmother all but raised me as a girl - so I was able to watch and learn as she planted her garden, canned and preserved, made her own soaps and lotions, the whole gamut of 'depression era' skills. I even still have her depression era cookbook with recipes based on rather bizarre (from a gourmet standpoint) but easy to obtain ingredients !

    I was also lucky in a way that my dad was a building contractor who often thought of me as the 'son' he never had. He taught me how to read blueprints, lay concrete block (I need two hands though he could heft a block in one hand and trowel with the other at the same time LOL), do basic plumbing and wiring, do basic engine repairs etc.

    To few; far, far to few. Enough have the skills to be the Marauders or Raiders to the tinfoil hats. Famine caused by a break down will be worse than the thirties with todays people. It will be horrific.
    well, if the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is any example, it will be worse than horrific. All you have to do to compare the situation for country folks like us with the aftermath of the hurricane in Mississippi, and compare the situation for suburban and city folks to the aftermath of the hurricane in Louisiana ! Like the Mississippians, we'll be out there with our chain saws and sharing what we have with neighbors and family, and they'll either be out there looting and shooting or holed up in some public facility waiting for the gov't / police to take care of their problems and send air conditioned busses ! Unfortunately, if and when things do go to hell in a handbasket, the national guard will be pretty damn busy at other tasks !

    You're right about enough 'city dwellers' being well prepared to become marauders too ! Some of them have certainly had opportunities to gain experience with firearms, violence, robbery, rape etc. Some have also had the opportunity to earn their 'bachelor of burglary' degree while being incarcerated with expert teachers for a few 'semesters' !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-27-2007 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    As much as I can be ! Absolute zero on GE seeds too. I actually use imported ladybugs instead of insecticide too, which my grandmorther obtained 30 years ago and which have been breeding happily in her (now my) back yard ever since.
    Great! Most of those heirlooms just taste better. Much better than the homogenous repetition of the few species than are supplied day to day at markets because they travel well or have better color.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    You missed the point a bit. My objective was to reduce calibre from 30.06 to .270 in order to improve control and reduce kick, while still maintaining the ability to punch a hole in class IIIA body armor if worst comes to worst. Steel jacketed .270 ammo isn't very easy to come by. I guess all that really means is that if I decide to spring for the Beretta .270 rifle that I'll also have to purchase a couple of thousand rounds of steel jacketed .270 ammo at the same time. So far I have avoided getting into reloading myself, but my neighbors certainly have the presses and scales to do it for me if those 2000 rounds run out before 'civilization' returns !
    The 30.06 AP ammo has a steel or tungsten core with a copper jacket so you could buy the pulled bullets and have a neighbor load them to a level you find comfortable. Still punches holes in IIIA and you save money you can put toward that Gen III night vision you want. Don't let me dissuade you from buying another rifle though! What about a custom stoock built around the action you have now? One sized to fit you with a quality recoil pad and maybe with mercury recoil reducers inletted into the barrel channel.



    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, fortunately, my grandmother all but raised me as a girl - so I was able to watch and learn as she planted her garden, canned and preserved, made her own soaps and lotions, the whole gamut of 'depression era' skills. I even still have her depression era cookbook with recipes based on rather bizarre (from a gourmet standpoint) but easy to obtain ingredients !
    Squirrels, ground chucks, water cress, wild onion, dandelions, chicory root, etc.
    MMMMMMMMM good stuff. Copy that stuff and write a cook book! Just update and add color with some gathering tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I was also lucky in a way that my dad was a building contractor who often thought of me as the 'son' he never had. He taught me how to read blueprints, lay concrete block (I need two hands though he could heft a block in one hand and trowel with the other at the same time LOL), do basic plumbing and wiring, do basic engine repairs etc.
    I love you. To bad more people don't have this experience as kids. Though we could see a change as DIY tv is huge. To much is about decorating but atleast it is about building stuff. I am a tool junkie. I hate malls but love Home Depot or Lowes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, if the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is any example, it will be worse than horrific. All you have to do to compare the situation for country folks like us with the aftermath of the hurricane in Mississippi, and compare the situation for suburban and city folks to the aftermath of the hurricane in Louisiana ! Like the Mississippians, we'll be out there with our chain saws and sharing what we have with neighbors and family, and they'll either be out there looting and shooting or holed up in some public facility waiting for the gov't / police to take care of their problems and send air conditioned busses ! Unfortunately, if and when things do go to hell in a handbasket, the national guard will be pretty damn busy at other tasks !
    You know I was looking for stories about the aftermath of Katrina or Rita that are not about Government. These are hard to find stories with lesson learned by People there during and after the storms. Stories from former Yugoslavia have more about how people coped. The Katrina stories focus on the negative and what the gov did or didn't do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    You're right about enough 'city dwellers' being well prepared to become marauders too ! Some of them have certainly had opportunities to gain experience with firearms, violence, robbery, rape etc. Some have also had the opportunity to earn their 'bachelor of burglary' degree while being incarcerated with expert teachers for a few 'semesters' !

    ~
    True. Question is what kind of funeral do they deserve.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Wow, this is a lovely right-wing circle jerk, eh?

    I think there were multiple threads on this because the comment I made at the beginning of the thread about Dubya wiping his ass with the Constitution over the last 5+ years is no longer here.

    But I guess at least the GOP can't hurl the "tax & spend Democrat" crap at Democrats anymore, since Dubya seems to have a serious problem keeping his spending in check.

    So I guess in that respect he might be veering towards the stereotypical Democrat. Too bad he can't get the other parts right. You know, the ones that don't involve blowing up brown people or lining the pockets of his oil-company friends?
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by NinaDaisy View Post
    Wow, this is a lovely right-wing circle jerk, eh?

    I think there were multiple threads on this because the comment I made at the beginning of the thread about Dubya wiping his ass with the Constitution over the last 5+ years is no longer here.

    But I guess at least the GOP can't hurl the "tax & spend Democrat" crap at Democrats anymore, since Dubya seems to have a serious problem keeping his spending in check.

    So I guess in that respect he might be veering towards the stereotypical Democrat. Too bad he can't get the other parts right. You know, the ones that don't involve blowing up brown people or lining the pockets of his oil-company friends?
    *snicker*

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Dubya wiping his ass with the Constitution over the last 5+ years
    Can't disagree on this issue. However, both 'sides of the aisle' have done their share of constitutional feces collection over the past 5 years ... with eminent domain for the benefit of private investors and social welfare benefit eligibility for illegal aliens and my inability to legally buy a semi-automatic AK47 rifle if I want one (which I do !) immediately coming to mind. This isn't a red vs blue issue anymore, but an intrinsic Washington DC issue. The only difference appears to be that red vs blue choose different pages of the constitution to wipe their ass with.

    But I guess at least the GOP can't hurl the "tax & spend Democrat" crap at Democrats anymore, since Dubya seems to have a serious problem keeping his spending in check.
    Can't disagree on this issue either. Another case where the ever increasing gov't spending has become an intrinsic Washington DC issue. Again the only difference appears to be that increased gov't spending goes to different benefit recipient groups.

    Too bad he can't get the other parts right. You know, the ones that don't involve blowing up brown people or lining the pockets of his oil-company friends?
    as opposed to blowing up brown AND white people in Kosovo or lining the pockets of ethanol industry and tech industry and financial industry friends ? Arguably the same point applies that this issue is no longer red vs blue but endemic to today's Washington DC government paradigm. The only difference over the past decade IMHO appears to be that red vs blue choose different destinations for their bombs and gov't subsidies and stock option tax breaks !

    Please don't misinterpret my position - which is that every single elected official in Washington DC should be given the boot, along with their patronage cronies in the judicial system, gov't agency administrations etc. With that being a practical impossibility, it then boils down to a forced choice between bad or worse ... and increasing difficulty in trying to evaluate such a choice. Sarge and I are basically conceding that things have now gotten so bad (through both red and blue efforts, or lack thereof) that there is beginning to be a real risk of the system breaking down.


    PS Sarge ...
    Squirrels, ground chucks
    ... it all tastes like Chicken ! But it's a real bitch to clean. Personally, I settle for one deer per year which gets dressed out, put in my freezer, and eventually 100% eaten. Thanks to NY's public land use restrictions and anti-gun laws, there are now so goddam many deer around that I don't even need to leave my back yard anymore to snare my annual requirement and keep the little bastards from nibbling my garden perennials too (deer blood is an excellent repellant for other deer !).



    as you can guess, the deer population situation has gotten even worse in the intervening years since this article was written since none of the articles' proposed measures were actually taken. Arguably, NY's 'animal rights' policies, public land use restrictions, liability laws re hunters injured on private land with or without the owner's permission, and gun control policies have now created a major nuisance. The huge deer population now causes hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage every year to automobiles (not to mention injuries to their passengers), agriculture, etc.
    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-28-2007 at 10:29 AM.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Can't disagree on this issue. However, both 'sides of the aisle' have done their share of constitutional feces collection over the past 5 years ... with eminent domain for the benefit of private investors and social welfare benefit eligibility for illegal aliens and my inability to legally buy a semi-automatic AK47 rifle if I want one (which I do !) immediately coming to mind. This isn't a red vs blue issue anymore, but an intrinsic Washington DC issue. The only difference appears to be that red vs blue choose different pages of the constitution to wipe their ass with.



    Can't disagree on this issue either. Another case where the ever increasing gov't spending has become an intrinsic Washington DC issue. Again the only difference appears to be that increased gov't spending goes to different benefit recipient groups.



    as opposed to blowing up brown AND white people in Kosovo or lining the pockets of ethanol industry and tech industry and financial industry friends ? Arguably the same point applies that this issue is no longer red vs blue but endemic to today's Washington DC government paradigm. The only difference over the past decade IMHO appears to be that red vs blue choose different destinations for their bombs and gov't subsidies and stock option tax breaks !

    Please don't misinterpret my position - which is that every single elected official in Washington DC should be given the boot, along with their patronage cronies in the judicial system, gov't agency administrations etc. With that being a practical impossibility, it then boils down to a forced choice between bad or worse ... and increasing difficulty in trying to evaluate such a choice. Sarge and I are basically conceding that things have now gotten so bad (through both red and blue efforts, or lack thereof) that there is beginning to be a real risk of the system breaking down.
    YEP! Seconded!


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    PS Sarge ... ... it all tastes like Chicken ! But it's a real bitch to clean. Personally, I settle for one deer per year which gets dressed out, put in my freezer, and eventually 100% eaten. Thanks to NY's public land use restrictions and anti-gun laws, there are now so goddam many deer around that I don't even need to leave my back yard anymore to snare my annual requirement and keep the little bastards from nibbling my garden perennials too (deer blood is an excellent repellant for other deer !).



    as you can guess, the deer population situation has gotten even worse in the intervening years since this article was written since none of the articles' proposed measures were actually taken. Arguably, NY's 'animal rights' policies, public land use restrictions, liability laws re hunters injured on private land with or without the owner's permission, and gun control policies have now created a major nuisance. The huge deer population now causes hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage every year to automobiles (not to mention injuries to their passengers), agriculture, etc.
    ~
    Tastes like chicken....Hee hee I always think of the scene from the movie the matrix where the guy is trying to explain why everything tastes like chicken.

    I hear ya! Pain to clean and musk glands..Yuck. Plentiful, often free, and some are not so bad after soaked in brine. My Dad had good little stories of when he was a kid bringing back fish, bird eggs, or rabbits from farm land around Bakersfield, CA when he was growing up. when I was growing up in the eighties guys still got together after school to go fishing. I don't know what happened to that. Besides wild game what does that depression era cook book have in it? I would be curious to see it.

    Have you seen the garden with the chicken house in the center? Essentially there is a run on either side that is fenced in. One side is used as the chicken run and the other as a small garden or herb plot. Each year the sides are alternated. this the chicken get to happily pick at last years greens and eat up the bugs. All the while the girls do their part in fertilizing the garden.

    The deer menace. Yep the critters loved my Mothers garden, the deer buffet. Human hair, barking dog, motion sensitive sprinkler, all that didnt work. Have to be very careful driving around sunrise and sunset in most suburban settings these days. Deer love those green lawns and shrubbery. You will have a better chance of getting that 8 point buck on a golf course than in any pine barren.

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    Default Re: from outward appearances, GWB has become a Democrat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Can't disagree on this issue. However, both 'sides of the aisle' have done their share of constitutional feces collection over the past 5 years ... with eminent domain for the benefit of private investors and social welfare benefit eligibility for illegal aliens and my inability to legally buy a semi-automatic AK47 rifle if I want one (which I do !) immediately coming to mind. This isn't a red vs blue issue anymore, but an intrinsic Washington DC issue. The only difference appears to be that red vs blue choose different pages of the constitution to wipe their ass with.
    Very true that both sides of the aisle were complicit in having our freedoms eroded. To be fair, I think that also on both sides of the aisle it was typical political bullshit coming into effect. After 9/11 the general public was so freaked out that basically any dissent from the Patriot Act or any other crap that was spawned from 9/11 was viewed as "unpatriotic". And the members of Congress (again on both sides of the aisle) didn't want to risk losing re-election by dissenting. At this point though, even the GOP is joining the anti-Bush brigade, although I fear that a lot of what was taken away might never be restored, even with a Democrat or a "pure" Republican (as in more in the mold of a Libertarian) in the White House.

    I do agree to a certain extent about Kosovo and I didn't mean to mis-represent your POV. However, the "War on Terror" (it seems people forget that we still have troops in Afghanistan, so it's not just Iraq) is more against this nebulous entity and it's most definitely turning into a quagmire now, whereas when we finally exited from the Balkans the region did become a lot more stable, which will likely not happen with Iraq.

    I'm aware that is in large part to the very violent and vocal extremists there though, and the people we were battling in Kosovo were different than those in the current "War on Terror".
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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