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Thread: The money-and-happiness correlation

  1. #1
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default The money-and-happiness correlation

    I found an interesting article on bankrate.com today:


    The article goes into depth about the correlation(or lack thereof) between money and happiness. The main point of the article is: if you make a comfortable/mediocre income, then excess wealth will most likely increase your happiness by a smaller amount than you'd expect. And if you are already well-to-do and then make more money(e.g., going from earning $100,000/yr to $500,000/yr), then you will most likely only experience a marginal(if any) increase in happiness.

    However, what I found most interesting about the article was one of the smaller, yet seemingly obvious, points: If you are earning below the poverty line, then you will most likely experience a DRASTIC increase in happiness. The article also stated that while going from middle class to wealthy will not guarantee happiness by any means, that going from middle class to destitute will most times create UNHAPPINESS. Also, I found it interesting(and very true!) that the increase in happiness/comfort between making say, $5,000/yr and $50,000/yr is TONS greater than the increase in happiness/comfort between making say, $100,000/yr and $500,000/yr. This is because $50,000/yr is an adequate amount to pay for everyday living expenses plus a little bit of socializing, whereas $5,000/yr would be very tough to live on, even with some rent subsidization.

    What is my point? In my opinion, I believe that lack of money can lead to more problems/stress than too much money. For example, a person "living in a cardboard box under a bridge." Not only would this type of person lack the money to spend on lavish vacations or material goods, but this person would also be faced with a crisis in terms of obtaining adequate necessities(food, clothing, and a roof over one's head). Even someone living better than a bum under a bridge, but still earning less than the poverty line cut-off, would have a very difficult time getting by. (We've all commented on this in the "Living on $12K/yr" thread.) Not only would this person struggle to pay the bills, but would have to pull tons of overtime just to keep up with rent(thus increasing risk of getting physically "run down" and ill), would be one paycheck away from homelessness or potential bankruptcy, and the list goes on.

    People used to wonder why I spent so much time stressing about my budgets and finances, and why I was "so obsessed with money and keeping good credit." Well perhaps I didn't want to risk falling into a situation where I would end up with nothing! I used to live on Ramen and ask my friends to lend me money for gas so that I could drive 3mins down the road to class(walking was not a safe option; it meant walking along freeway exit ramps and/or highways to walk from my college apartment to the college campus)...and it really sucked! I can admit, I became a LOT happier when I started dancing and literally went from earning $5,000/yr to $50,000/yr+. I was finally able to eat nutritious food, obtain health insurance, see a doctor when sick, afford reliable transportation, keep up with bills, finish my degree, etc. Does anyone else have any similar experiences with money and its effect on personal happiness?

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    There have been studies conducted in the UK about this. They were asking Lottery winners of £1million+. The general trend seemed to be that if they were happy before they won, they were happy after. If they were unhappy before, the money didn't change much.

    There were also findings, which I can't recall too well, that if the people had a net worth of roughly zero before the win, then they were bad at managing money and no matter what advice they got, they still spent at an unsustainable rate. It seems that quite a few of them needed to be back at work within 2 years to stop themselves going broke.

    I don't know, but I would imagine that it was mostly consumer goods they bought that decrease quickly in value.

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    I think it also depends on what you spend your money on, which may or may not make you happy. Spending money on things won't, as opposed to relationships and memories which become valuable for their ability to enrich your life...for example:

    A luxury car won't make you happy, but throwing a party or going on vacation or getting a dog does. Even a latte at Starbucks, which has a gotten a bad reputation for splurge that people should give up, is a nice little bit of happiness for $3.50.

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    There's this man my husband works with that won $4mil on a scratch ticket last year and seven months later his first year's installment was already gone Mind you he and his spouse are lottery hounds. We would see him at the packy buying books of tickets at a time. Why is this guy chasing a dream that has already come true??? He is still working, but something about health insurance/bennies. Hubby says he was on cloud nine for about a month but shortly after returned to his usual demeanor. I know it's not my business, but this shit pisses me off

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ^^^ There is no justice. I'd be overjoyed, though I don't do the lottery ... I personally want the satisfaction of earning my way.

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    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    I was listening to the radio a few years ago and they discussed a study on this subject. According to the study, people generally don't feel that they need a lot more money than they already have - only about 20% more. And if they get it, they actually are happier... for about six months..... then, they want 20% more.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    'Happiness' is a very imprecise term. Arguably, besides the availability of large amounts of money for discretionary spending (which seems to be all that the BankRate article addresses), several other issues come into play. Among them are leisure time available, average stress levels, risk of loss in the case of a low probability event occurring etc. By those standards, the 'happiest' people in America are probably permanently unemployed persons who are eligible for every social welfare program in existance !

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ahhh, being on public assistance does sound the good life. I just hope I can aspire to nothingness so I can have all that and be happy.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by StuartL View Post
    ^^^ There is no justice. I'd be overjoyed, though I don't do the lottery ... I personally want the satisfaction of earning my way.
    There is a saying among BMW drivers... "there are owners and then there are leasers."

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot View Post
    I was listening to the radio a few years ago and they discussed a study on this subject. According to the study, people generally don't feel that they need a lot more money than they already have - only about 20% more. And if they get it, they actually are happier... for about six months..... then, they want 20% more.
    It's cuz those bills keep getting bigger!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    this was just published ...

    (snip)"According to a CareerBuilder.com survey, 84 percent of the more than 6,000 people polled are not in their dream job.

    "What defines a dream job is surprisingly reminiscent of childhood wishes for many workers," said Richard Castellini, vice president of consumer marketing at CareerBuilder.com. "Workers said they want to enjoy their work experience, apply their talents and feel like they're making an impact. Having fun at work was the most important attribute of a dream job for 39 percent of workers, which heavily outweighed the 12 percent who said salary was most important."

    Salary was one of the least important factors in determining a dream job. Money ranked third (12 percent) compared to having fun at work (39 percent) which topped the list, followed by making a difference in society (17 percent). Rounding out the bottom three attributes were traveling and seeing the world (5 percent) and being creative within a position (5 percent)."(snip) from


    ahhh, being on public assistance does sound the good life. I just hope I can aspire to nothingness so I can have all that and be happy
    hey, just think, if you also work under the table you'll have the discretionary income to spend as well as the leisure time, lack of stress and low risk of loss.

  12. #12
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by StuartL View Post
    There were also findings, which I can't recall too well, that if the people had a net worth of roughly zero before the win, then they were bad at managing money and no matter what advice they got, they still spent at an unsustainable rate. It seems that quite a few of them needed to be back at work within 2 years to stop themselves going broke.
    Yes that is a very good and valid point. I can see that happening for some people!

    There are many good points raised in this thread. However, when I referred to the happiness(or lack thereof) of lower income individuals, I was mainly referring to people who were broke because they simply didn't make enough money. For example, a person who only makes $12,000/yr working as a Wal-Mart cashier. Even if this person spent conservatively and abstained from a lavish lifestyle, it would still be very tight to get by. The person would be living paycheck to paycheck, in constant fear of any catastrophy(medical expenses, car accident, car repair, pregnancy, burglary, etc) that would financially devastate them with one quick swing. These kinds of people don't make enough money to have much of anything left over after they pay for living expenses(most of these people can't pay for living expenses! that's why they still live at home with the parents, or use social programs such as Welare).

    As I wrote this thread, the thoughts running through my head were NOT about people who make say, $30K/yr but spend all their money on alcohol or designer clothes. I was thinking of the people who make below say, $15K/yr to the point that they struggle just to pay daily bills, and to the point that they have trouble finding a place to live because no landlord wants to rent to someone that doesn't make a "stable" good-sized income.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    ahhh, being on public assistance does sound the good life. I just hope I can aspire to nothingness so I can have all that and be happy.
    Emily, I know you were just joking around when you said that, but I just want to reassert that I would NOT be happy living off public assistance! If I had to rely on Housing Assistance and Food Stamps, then I would feel like a small child, in the sense that I wouldn't be able to support myself. I would feel personally insulted if I wasn't able to support myself. I mean, I am young, healthy, no handicap, no mental diasbilities, no children/dependents, plus I have an education; I would feel so foolish and lame if I received Public Assistance! That's the very reason that I never applied for Welfare, even when I really needed it(and I probably should have bit the bullet and applied...but instead of taking on Welfare, I took on dancing so that I could pay for things myself! LOL) That's also why I can't understand how there are so many perfectly funtionable people who would rather sit back, not work, and live off social program aide! Don't they have any self-respect or a desire to prove to themselves that they are capable of earning things on their own?

    I know you were just joking Emily...but you brought up a great point that, although doesn't apply to you in the real sense, does apply to many people out there.

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    God/dess FrustratedBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    A luxury car won't make you happy, but throwing a party or going on vacation or getting a dog does. Even a latte at Starbucks, which has a gotten a bad reputation for splurge that people should give up, is a nice little bit of happiness for $3.50.
    I think this really just depends on the person and what makes the particular individual happy. I'd be much happier with a Porsche than a vacation or a party, but that's just me. I have a "thing" for sexy imported cars. In fact, I used to have a Porsche and I still have fond memories of owning it and want another one. I'd rather have a Porsche than a boyfriend.

    I can honestly say that now that I make a comfortable living I am much happier than when I was always broke. It's not so much that the money makes me happy but that the lack of money made me unhappy.

    All in all though, there are a lot of miserable wealthy people and a lot of happy poor people and vice versa. I think some people are just naturally happier than others.

  14. #14
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by FrustratedBunny View Post
    I think this really just depends on the person and what makes the particular individual happy. I'd be much happier with a Porsche than a vacation or a party, but that's just me. I have a "thing" for sexy imported cars. In fact, I used to have a Porsche and I still have fond memories of owning it and want another one. I'd rather have a Porsche than a boyfriend.

    I can honestly say that now that I make a comfortable living I am much happier than when I was always broke. It's not so much that the money makes me happy but that the lack of money made me unhappy.

    All in all though, there are a lot of miserable wealthy people and a lot of happy poor people and vice versa. I think some people are just naturally happier than others.
    I agree very much with that! I also agree with the idea that "it wasn't the money that made me happy, but the lack of money that made me unhappy." I was poor before to the point that I had to live off Ramen and couldn't even keep my car insured for a period of time. Yes, I was definitely unhappy, because this type of situation meant that I had to walk 4miles up and down hill in the cold weather to approach civilization(I lived out in a rural suburb, and getting food/applying for jobs/etc meant walking into the borough, 4 miles away); having an easier time getting sick, because I wasn't eating much more than Ramen or egg noodles; having my parents yell and scream at me for not having the money to move out into my own place; having a difficult time finding a job, because I didn't have a car to drive very far away from my borough at the time.

    Sure, a $3.50 Starbucks latte can bring some people comfort, but in my eyes that is only a very temporary fix. For example, a homeless person who, by the grace of a very nice person, gives him $3.50 so that he can buy a latte at Starbucks. That might make his day. He can fill his stomach, savor a warm latte, and finally have an excuse to be sitting inside the Starbucks. But as soon as his latte is finished, he is left to go back outside in the cold and worry about whether or not he will freeze to death later that night. If I were a dude like that, I would *not* be happy.

    Right now, I have stopped dancing and have been trying to stabilize myself on "regular" jobs(personal reasons + too much burn-out). Luckily, I found a decent day job(plus I'm planning to get a second job soon; a few of the bartending jobs that I got hired for, didn't work out due to lack of compatible shifts), so I am making less money than when I was dancing, but more money than my pre-dancing days when I made shit money in retail. I think my "middle class" standing is best. I can still afford to keep my cars and nice apartment(barely, but still...I can do it), plus I will be getting health insurance through work and other nice "necessities." The downer is that I have less money for going out or buying extra cars, but at the same time, I have my nights free and I don't have to work a job that I started to dislike(aka dancing). So yeah, I am decently happy(although still a little stressed, since I am adjusting to this new lifestyle and hopefully I won't fuck anything up! I think this will fade with time).

    Same with my friend M--k...he went from full-time working at Acme, driving a 1990 Pontiac "dirtmobile"(Rest In Pieces lol), and living at home after college...to working a day job at a bank(aka a "job he can actually admit to"), driving a brand new car, and finally moving out into his own place. Yes, he seems happier too. One of the reasons he is happier is because he is finally seeing the positive effects of graduating high school and college. Whereas before, he'd grinned and beared his way through school, just to be working a grocery job that didn't even require a high school diploma.

    I'm sorry, but I just cannot see how a perfectly destitute person could be perfectly happy. Yeah the person could try, but eventually will be stressed with more problems than the average person...problems such as eviction/finding a place to live, credit problems, social stigmas, etc. Perhaps this is a reason that so many bums are so batty?

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    I used the luxury car example because most people don't like the car as much a couple of years down the road and then want to trade it in for something else. In this case, the money didn't make you happy for that long. And it was a lot of money!

    If you are one of those people that babies a car until its death, then that's something different.

    I guess I was using the latte example of little pleasures that you can have and completely justify if you have just a little extra money. It doesn't have to be a porsche for everyone.

  16. #16
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    I used the luxury car example because most people don't like the car as much a couple of years down the road and then want to trade it in for something else. In this case, the money didn't make you happy for that long. And it was a lot of money!

    If you are one of those people that babies a car until its death, then that's something different.
    LOL I'm one of those people that babies a car until its death(and then spends money getting the car restored and essentially resurrected again! lol). And I admit, I felt very happy when I was able to buy my Mustang and my classic VW can. Partly because I like the cars a lot. But most of my happiness from buying the cars, came from the idea that being able to buy these cars validated that I was finally financially capable. The Mustang was the first car loan I got, and I never had very much credit before, so getting the Mustang loan at a decent rate made me feel that I'd accomplished my goal of establishing credit and clout. As for the VW van, I'd always wanted one and I worked my butt off(along with limiting my spending) in college so that I could get one when I graduated. Of course none of that happened(graduation got delayed due to involuntarily taking time off from school due to money issues), so when I was finally able to buy one, I finally felt that I'd overcome all of the money problems I had before. To me, the cars were symbols that I was financially capable, accomplished, and able to "make it" independently; they were symbols representing my success at climbing over some obstacles I'd had in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    I guess I was using the latte example of little pleasures that you can have and completely justify if you have just a little extra money. It doesn't have to be a porsche for everyone.
    Yeah, the latte was a good example actually. There have been times that I've been really stressed out, and it helps to stop at Starbucks or to get spinach dip at Friday's. The example that I brought up, was an example of someone in an extremely destitute state. For them, no a latte wouldn't solve their problems...eventually they will still have to head home to an apartment without adequate heat, or even head out with no place to go to at all. But for people like you and me, yes grabbing a latte(or for me, spinach dip) can help us to unwind, focus on one of the small pleasures of life, and relax before we head home to our warm apartment or house.

    In my opinion, I think that "not having money" would suck the most if it is because of things beyond one's control. For example, someone who wins the lottery but ends up in debt 4 months later because of overspending, only has himself/herself to blame. But for someone who works their butt off at min wage, doesn't spend any of it on "want" items, and STILL has a hard time making ends meet(e.g., paying for rent, heat, electric, transportation, healthcare, etc)...well, I can kinda see why they would be unhappy.

    Here is another example of someone who is in a poor money state due to problems (at least somewhat) beyond their control. This morning on Good Morning America, they had a story about people going through foreclosures on their properties. One woman was losing the house that she'd raised her 3 children in over the last 20+yrs and had many fond memories in. She'd paid off the mortgage in full a few years back, but had to take out a home equity loan to pay for all the expenses incurred by a divorce. When she fell behind on the home equity loan, the lender took her house. Sure we don't know the full details of the divorce, but what if the divorce was beyond her control?(e.g., husband leaving her for a younger woman, etc) That would really suck. And yeah, in her case, having the extra money to quickly get current on her home equity loan would happy her a LOT happier. But without the money to pay on the home equity loan, she now has to worry about where she will live(she could get an apartment, but I doubt that many places would want to rent on her with the bad credit she now has, as a result of the foreclosure!). That, and the realization that she is losing a 6-digit investment that she'd spent years paying off in full. In her case, I think money would make a difference.

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    God/dess FrustratedBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    I've met some hippies that live in what I would consider absolute squalor and they seem pretty happy to me. I can say I wouldn't be happy living like that though.

  18. #18
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Yeah, but a lot of hippies also rely on intoxication to provide fun. A little bit of pot or LSD is a great way to escape troubles or stigmas from society. When I was poor, I used to do all kinds of drugs and drinking to feel better. However, I can't rely on drugs/drinking to feel better now, since I'm on probation and drug use puts me at risk for entering the slammer. =-O

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    famous quote from Animal House's Dean Vernon Wormer ...

    "Fat, dumb and happy is no way to go through life, son !"

  20. #20
    PhillyDancer1982
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ^ Yes I think there was a point related to that in the article. They were saying that different emotions(including sadness, anger, etc) evolved to aide in our survival. For example, a man is going to feel happy feelings when he sees a naked girl. But he is NOT going to feel those same happy feeling when he sees a big ferocious bear!(or at least I hope he wouldn't be happy!) His emotion of fear allows him to realize that he has to get away from the bear, therefore run for his life!

    I guess the same thing could apply to money? For example, If I didn't have any money for food, I would feel hunger pains and therefore I wouldn't be too happy. Perhaps that unhappiness would be a motivating trigger to motivate me to go out there and do things to lead to better money so I can buy food(for example: work 3 jobs, polish my resume up and apply for a higher-paying job, etc) On an evolutionary standpoint, it just wouldn't make good sense for me to be starving and perfectly happy.

  21. #21
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ^^^^ Sorry, actual quote: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ^^^ I defer to your superior cinemological cerebralness !!! (try saying that three times in rapid succession)

  23. #23
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    ^^^If I did, there'd be no oral sex from me until the bruising went away.

    Yes, see, you finally gave me an opening in this section where I could say something with a decent level of authority. Gotta grab those fleeting moments.

    Although... I'm a fan of the movie, but it still required a quick Googling to nail it down.

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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    I'm making more money now than I ever have in my life, and truth be told, it's mostly great. The problem happened when my ex's money stayed the same and our income gap widened dramatically.

    When I danced I traveled a lot and I don't regret that at all, so I have used my money for interesting and enriching experiences and at times have been able to share them with my friends too, which is fulfilling as well.

    Most importantly, I'm investing so that I can maintain a comfortable life when I'm older and not HAVE to work, just work if I want to and in what I want to.

    I think a lot of the negative feelings that come from lack of money is the sense of impending catastrophe that can come from living paycheck-to-paycheck. Of course, there are a lot of people with money that blow all of it too, but their situation tends to be a lot less precarious. If someone making $150,000 a year has a kid who breaks their arm or they total their car, they'll still get by even if they're spending too much. For someone at or just barely above the poverty line it can mean foreclosure/eviction, ruined credit and all kinds of other nasty stuff. Which in turn would likely make them more depressed.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Default Re: The money-and-happiness correlation

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    ahhh, being on public assistance does sound the good life. I just hope I can aspire to nothingness so I can have all that and be happy.
    Housing in dangerous neighborhoods, sub-par schools, powdered milk and government cheese. You make it sound so tempting!
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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