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Thread: This type of guy still puzzles me.

  1. #26
    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    I am going to reprint a portion of a sales newsletter I receive that is relevant to this discussion (and all the others re: "How do I sell to someone who doesn't seem to want what I am selling?")



    Why do most salespeople have to visit 6 prospects an average of 4.4 times in order make one sale? Simply because that is the way they learned how to sell. They can give you plenty of seemingly logical reasons why, in their market, with their products and services, it has to be that way. But, does it?
    Do you think that most prospects want to have multiple meetings in order to satisfy a need that is important to them? Of course not. They want to buy what they need and want ASAP. All they really need to determine is:
    • Whether your products and/or services will suit their requirements; and
    • Whether they can trust you and your company to reliably satisfy those requirements.
    The longer it takes for most prospects to reach that conclusion, the less likely they are to buy from you. So, it is imperative that you:
    • Adjust your selling process to focus on those two buying decision factors; and
    • Accomplish that in one or two visits.
    The steps required to become an accomplished One-Call Closer are:
    1. Only visit with prospects that want the benefits of your type of products and/or services. That means you must learn how to find them and make appointments with them.
    2. Make mutual commitments to do business if you can meet each other’s Conditions of Satisfaction. That is the first close.
    3. Establish a deep Relationship of Mutual Trust and Respect during the first twenty minutes of meeting with them. That is entirely different from “building rapport.”
    4. Be willing to disqualify (for now) any prospect that indicates that they will not buy immediately. Staying there and continuing the sales process virtually guarantees that you will not make the sale now- nor in the future.
    5. Determine the exact buying intentions of the prospect, and get another commitment to do business, if you can meet each other’s Conditions of Satisfaction.
    6. Determine exactly what the prospects Conditions of Satisfaction are and whether you can meet them.
    7. Discuss every feature, benefit and detriment of your product or service with regard to how it will affect the prospect’s needs. Exposing all detriments will eliminate almost all objections and ensure the prospect’s trust.
    8. Close on every point throughout the entire sales process.
    Speaking as a sales professional who was actually trained by Tom Hopkins' former National Sales Manager (and if you don't know who TH is, that's the guy who DW, uh, "borrows" most of his material from), I can tell you it is a lot easier selling to people who want to buy from you rather than convincing people who aren't sure to do so.

    None of this BS about building a "yes" momentum, no false promises of services you have no intention of providing, and no wasting your precious time with people who have no desire for what you have to offer. That is the how the road to success is paved.

    CP

  2. #27
    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post

    Well....my real name is Emily, and Emily will tell you to fuck yourself and Buffy will smile lovingly in your eyes for a mere $20. Are you sure you want the real me?
    Emily, you have captured it all in two sentences!

    the tired business traveller showing up on a Wednesday night votes for Buffy as well . . . but somehow I suspect the fact that Emily is underneath makes Buffy a lot more interesting . . .

  3. #28
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Only visit with prospects that want the benefits of your type of products and/or services. That means you must learn how to find them and make appointments with them.
    In the context of a strip club, not everyone who enters (and in some cases pay an entry fee to be there) wants to be there for lap dances. So how do you distinguish those who are just taking up space from those who genuinelly want to be there?

    For me it is body language. It's the reason I like to "stalk" the room (as I call it). I would rather spend my time alone walking the room.. standing in a corner here and there... watching the crowd and what's happening so I can have a better chance of selling a higher priced lap dance than approach each and every person in the room.

    Be willing to disqualify (for now) any prospect that indicates that they will not buy immediately. Staying there and continuing the sales process virtually guarantees that you will not make the sale now- nor in the future.
    I totally agree. In the context of a strip club, it is better to get up and walk away from someone with no prospect of a sale than to bother wasting your time with them trying to turn them into a sale.


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    Featured Member 21stcenturyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    GCG, what do you look for when stalking the room? what body language makes you approach them?

    i have been one of those girls who hav sat too long with the gentleman so i am so glad i have learned what a detrimental thing this is to do from reading HH! the problem is, my club is slow and only gets busy four hours after i have arrived so sometimes i just sit with the guys because there is nothing else to do. i always thought it was rude how girls would talk to the only guys in the club and then walk away and sit in full view of them on their own. now i understand. staying with the custy perpetuates their inclination to get something for nothing.

    ps: we also dont have stage tipping in my club, nor do gentlemen simply tip you for talking to them (oh how i wish i lived in america!!!) so its even harder to make money as you have to hustle all night for it.

    anyway, id love to know more about the body language bit cos i love this job despite knowing its probably easier to make money in the USA hehe!
    "Sex is currency. What's the use of being beautiful if you can't profit from it?" - Lily St Cyr (40's burlesque dancer)

  5. #30
    Senior Member manchester's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty_Penny View Post
    uhhg i know what you mean. i (after having dealt with them over and over and over) finally snapped yesterday to one being particularly bitter/whiny/playing games and just said "WHY......ARE......YOU.....HERE..." and when he started to give some vauge answer i said "NONONO....WHY....ARE...YOU....HERE..." and stared at him like "????????"

    he got up and left.

    good.
    ahahhahah yes

  6. #31
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Read any book about body language to learn about it. Plus I look for guys who are looking around the room often. Who are drinking often enough instead of 'nursing a beer'. Who have tipped the waitresses (and try to see how much). Do they look like they are having fun or it is bother being there ? Do they have open body langauge ? Are they sneaking a peek into the lap dance area (for the ones who are in a location to do so) ? Watch his body language when other girls approach him/her/them. Do they seem open to the dancers or closed off especially if this body language happens with two or more dancers?


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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    I'm going to try this stalking the room technique. Sometimes I find it hard to know where to go next when I get a no.

    Prob a dumb question but would it ever be wise to get up from a "no" and approach the guy on the next chair who has just seen u get a no?

    I also see if they tip the waitress!!

  8. #33
    Veteran Member dollyrocker's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    At my club those are the johns on a budget, that think strip clubs are brothels are the same thing. *rolls eyes*

    We have quite a few regulars like that - regulars who hang around the bar only that is. They never tip, never buy dances, expect conversation (or to get away with grabbing the girls), but make plenty of "I'd like to take you out of here" comments. Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

  9. #34
    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Palmer View Post
    Only visit with prospects that want the benefits of your type of products and/or services. That means you must learn how to find them and make appointments with them.
    This point is interesting in light of the fact that many of us bitch about customers who come to the club but don't want our type of services. WTF are they even there for if not to buy what's being sold? Like, you'd think that they would understand the nature of a strip club and screen themselves out if they're looking for something other than the norm offered within those walls. For example, guys looking for Chinese food don't waste their time going to Pizza Hut and griping that there's nothing they want there. But obviously this same level of discernment does not apply to all SC customers. Partly because there is no universal norm across, or even within, strip clubs.

    (In fact, I thought this point is partly why I paid the club a house fee to work there. To compensate for their efforts in establishing a workable business model and marketing it to draw receptive customers. Hahahahaha. I crack myself up.)

    -Ev

  10. #35
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post

    (In fact, I thought this point is partly why I paid the club a house fee to work there. To compensate for their efforts in establishing a workable business model and marketing it to draw receptive customers. Hahahahaha. I crack myself up.)

    -Ev
    Good point...I wonder if also this negative dynamic might lead more and more dancers to do private shows independently. So far we just seem to be comfortable taking it up the ass from the club (generally). It would really be something if more of us could create a safe and profitable work environment for ourselves. Maybe this type of customer we are profiling will help cause this change to occur.

  11. #36
    God/dess Chrissy68's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    oh my gosh *swoon* you rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie Rebel View Post
    For you Chrissy:



    and


    Love it!

  12. #37
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    How you know where to go after leaving one customer: You secretly watch the room as you're dealing with one guy. If he says no, you should have already scoped out someone else to try next. Or if you're doing floor dances for a guy you can scope the room while you're dancing. Just be discrete about it - only look when you've turned your back to the one you're dancing for (but still keep your eyes on HIM most of the time - he IS the one paying at that moment after all). Use the mirrors - if there are mirrors behind your custy, sneak a peak now and then to see who's looking behind or to your side.

    If you're just sitting with a guy, by all means, look around the room now and then. Throw in a (nice!) comment about another girl or something to cover for your looking around. You don't have to look around constantly - be sneaky and exercise discretion, again.

    You can also scope out some guys while you're going to / from the lap area or VIP.

    The key is to keep your mind on your money and your money on your mind! It sounds so simple, but I see girls allllllll the time with their noses in the air, their eyes glazed over, staring off into space, etc, while doing dances or walking around, when they SHOULD be using those precious moments to pick their next targets. Wake up and smell the money ladies!



    "Stalking" --

    When I first start my shift, I like to get a soda or water from the bar and stroll around the room with it and/or have a seat at the bar and scope out the room. I find alot of targets this way. Just stroll around looking sexy and available, and see who breaks his neck to check you out as you pass, or motions, or widens his eyes, etc etc etc. But don't walk right up to him.

    Keep strolling and doing your thing all the way around the room, making mental notes about the ones you caught checking you out. Prioritize them according to which look like the easiest or most money, and once you've headed back to the bar to put your drink down or whatever, now it's time to start approaching those on your list. Start at the one you think will be best / easiest and work your way down. Once you get the hang of this, you can have customers literally lined up for most of your night. Because you got them interested during your initial walk-through, and then once they see you doing dances for others they get more interested, and others will see you're busy and get interested too, and it snowballs.


    If you've just come from the lap area or VIP after being there a while, and some guy comments about "where have you been all night" - he's almost always gonna be an easy sell. You answer boldly and confidently, with NO apologies: "VIP", with a sly grin. You will have just planted the seed in his mind to want to see what's up with that, and why YOU are so special that you were back there so long.



    CP's post makes a great guide - just apply the concepts to our business and you're golden.

    One of the best things you can do for yourself is to not waste time with guys who aren't interested. If they aren't buying within 5-15 minutes, LEAVE. Your time will be much better spent working on guys who ARE interested, and/or saving your energy for later when there are more prospects.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Great advice Bridgette!!!!

  14. #39
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    I forgot to add that I always sneak a wink, stick my tongue out or smile at anyone I catch checking me out, while I'm busy with someone else. Just a QUICK wink or tongue is all it takes to get them set up for when you're done with the current guy Do it when you can hide it from your current guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  15. #40
    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    CP's post makes a great guide - just apply the concepts to our business and you're golden.

    One of the best things you can do for yourself is to not waste time with guys who aren't interested. If they aren't buying within 5-15 minutes, LEAVE. Your time will be much better spent working on guys who ARE interested, and/or saving your energy for later when there are more prospects.
    This is the most critical aspect.

    This sales process empirically has proven that persuasion-based sales systems like those espoused by Tom Hopkins et al are passe and aggravating, to both the customer and the salesperson (or, in this case, dancer). The frustration you feel day after day is a result of trying to convince someone to do something he doesn't really want to do (i.e., buy a champagne/VIP room) and something you don't really believe in.

    Stop wasting your time trying to sell to people and start finding the prospects who want to buy from you. Your sales will increase dramatically, and your job satisfaction will, too.

    I spent years training with some of the best salespeople in my industry, and had a closing percentage double what the industry standard was. But it was feast or famine: if I couldn't build enough value in my company's product/service, I didn't eat (100% commission). Persuasion tactics work to an extent, but once I re-learned how to sell by finding the right people who wanted to buy, my numbers went through the roof. Selling lapdances is no different than selling any other service; trying to convince yourself that this is industry is "unique" or that your city is "different" is just a rationalization.

    CP

  16. #41
    Featured Member georgiapeach's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    if i were a better hustler i might work on these guys. but really they just exhaust me and put me in a bad mood, which tends to get in the way of making sales with more willing customers, so i almost always just walk away.

    every once in a while i'll get irritated enough to actually lecture them on the way a strip club works and why i don't feel particulalry inclined to pay to show up to work and then talk to cheap punks for free. but so far i've always done it in a sweet voice and with a smile on my face. heh, it's probably a bit creepy...

  17. #42
    Senior Member gelsey's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie Rebel View Post
    I know most of you say these guys are just a waste of time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they are looking for SOMETHING, and if I provide that I can sell them. .
    They are looking for the same the thing the rest are 'to be seen a certain way' for example:
    *the dirty boy who we yell at to behave.
    *regulars, a supportive care taker (no strings attached)
    *would be lover, flirt a little flirt alot
    *playboys, the guy who can buy what ever and who ever he wants. Hey big spender!
    *the hero, the guy who rescues the the girl from her troubled life.
    *or the he could be the put downer, he gets off on making you feel bad

    So act away, we are a type of actress of course. Give him the girl of his 'self-image'.

    This guy could be the 'would be hero', he wants to be the one who takes you away from it all, shows you a better life, the guy you give the money up for because you have your head on right, etc. Its all a big fat lie and we know and so does he, but he is in the club isn't he. So let him live the lie for an hour or two.

    The sell is hard, since these are rare for me (I dance is mostly biker bars, they love their dancers) I only have a few techniques:

    1. On a good night when you are making bank and you want a bit of a challenge, make a move on him like you were in a normal bar, buy him a drink/ buy a lady a drink (if you have a quota) and talk to him like you were not just naked and are now wearing a bikini in Jan, see where that leads you, sometimes you can get one dance out of him (its like a normal bar progress, drink bought, small talk now lets dance) Or he will feel bad for taking up all your time and buy one because that is why he came in the first place (he just feels like a perv if he doesn't say that you are better than 'all of this')

    2. Play the fresh off the farm girl looking for someone to help her role, give the the oscar winning story, complete with plain vanilla virgin name, my teenage sister just had a baby and I just have to help her, family comes first you know, I have big dreams of being a teacher and then a stay at home mom, but right now I have to buy baby clothes and gas for the minivan. (its a cheap trick yes, unless its true, but you get the play at the role) any man that thinks he is going to get the truth at a club is an idot and deserves what he gets to a point. He will be glad to help you out, if that is what he is after.

    3. Point out that no one is above going hungry and it sure beats flipping burgers. NO you don't need him to buy you a meal (he more than likeing not just lookinf or the dinner date) And move onto the next guy. Some of these guys are just looking for a lot of extra, but are trying to not be that guy who buys sex.

  18. #43
    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Bridgette thank-you for your post that stuff is gold. I'd love to watch u work a room!! I agree once u get busy it just snowballs and attracts more customers.

  19. #44
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Well CP, I disagree that it's not any different from selling anything else. Because we have to apply the principles a bit differently than others, and because it's much more personal (feeling) when we get "rejected". Also because, if a guy doesn't like something about you, no amount of technique is going to change his mind. You might badger a dance out of him sometimes, but it will be much less productive than simply moving on to a better target, and NOT coming back. In other businesses it may be possible to come back later and MAKE MONEY - not so much in stripping. I think stripping is alot more black and white - yes or no. At least I manage to keep rather busy and profitable approaching it that way


    I totally disagree with the notion of challenging or trying to convince these guys at all, ESPECIALLY if you're having a good night. Why on earth would you want to waste your time with some cheapass for MAYBE ONE dance when you could be spending that same time making alot more??? Seems like a total waste of time to me.

    And if you're having a bad night, again, why bother with these dipshits? It will just frustrate you more and perpetuate your bad night. Fuck 'em! Let 'em sit there alone, maybe they'll leave and quit bothering us!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    They're mostly guys who've read "How to Date Strippers" websites LOL. So there's not much point into trying to sell to these guys.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    I have to say, #1 I rarely let these types piss me off, because THEY ARE THERE AFTER ALL--and there way more horrible types to deal with, to save anger for...

    #2 Totally defense mechanism, they are feeling like the guys around them are "losers that go to strip clubs" and that they are different. But what is a lonely guy to do when he's alone in his apartment eating takeout and it's been awhile since he's been in the company of a woman? What would you do? GO TO A STRIP CLUB! You can do a really good hustle, more the 'non-hustle type', in 3-5 minutes.

    Whenever they are complaining that they're here with buddies that dragged them there, I think of being little (6) and asking my father why he came home from that wedding so early--"because there were strippers there" Point blank--they are not held at gunpoint, and while maybe less enthusiastic than their friends, are probably good for a dance or two, but you have to toughen up.

    No one should get SUPREMELY pissed, save it for the grabby and bad breath kind. Gelsey really said it too. Just try.

  22. #47
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    One of the best things you can do for yourself is to not waste time with guys who aren't interested. If they aren't buying within 5-15 minutes, LEAVE. Your time will be much better spent working on guys who ARE interested, and/or saving your energy for later when there are more prospects.
    mini rant - i need to get this off my chest

    Can someone PLEASE drill this into the head of my current club?

    I had this exact argument with the head hostess at my club last night near the end of the night when she wanted me to "go talk to someone". Who was I meant to talk to? None of the patrons that were left in the room were going to spend! I had already talked to/with them earlier and ruled them out. Now I'm meant to waste my time and give it away for free because you told me too? You know what her arguments were: They are customers of the club and even if they aren't spending tonight they may come back another night to spend and/or tell their friends about the club who may come in and spend.

    Ah.. okay. I'm there to make money not to indulge people and give away my time for free. I told her this and she just WOULD NOT GET IT !?!?!

    No bloody fucking wonder there are a shitload of time-wasters at this club at the moment. It's bad enough they get free entry !!!!

    Granted, I can't totally bitch as I did well last night because I did NOT waste me time with people. I made sure they knew my time was valuable.

    --end mini rant -- back to the thread now..........


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  23. #48
    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    ^^^
    That is really shit GCG. I mean as you have said in many of your posts until they spend on a dancer they are a patron NOT a customer.
    You pay a house fee to the club and do your tables and that IMO is your contribution.

    The management at my club never tells us to speak to anyone, they are quite sympathetic to our situation in re: to time wasters.
    Our management is also content if customers are spending at the bar and obviously they got the cover charge from them when they entered.
    They do encourage spending on dances - our MC announces it and the club will pay us $20 to give a free lap dance to a customer on stage when its really shit and no one is spending to encourage spending. But a side from that as long as you pay your house fee and do your tables you are left to your own.

  24. #49
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    I don't pay house. I work on commission with this particular club. For every dance I do, I get paid a cut from every dance. I really wish the club would make the same distinction I do (and every other dancer does as well). If they want to come to a club to drink, even on a Monday night in Surfers Paradise, there are a few bars and nightclubs open for them to do so! :roll eyes:

    The hostesses (mainly) and waitresses (only sometimes) are generally employed to help to 'encourage' the guys to spend money on lap dances (as there are no stage tips encouraged in this club) yet they can only do so much. Plus they do have the front door girl 'hustle' them to pay $20 at the door for an "intro" dance (it's split 50/50) which is one song nude no touching.

    Yet because of the free entry there are guys who come in with the express purpose to just have a beer/drink and not spend a cent on the dancers. Just "enjoy the show" (on stage) and take up our time because they know they can in a way.


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  25. #50
    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: This type of guy still puzzles me.

    ^^^
    Is it hard to make good money at a club that operates in that way?
    I guess Im used to the house fee and then being able to keep all the money that I earn. I imagine it would make it harder.

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