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Thread: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

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    Default Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Just read about the Score's raid, but I also heard that Maryland and D.C. are trying to shut down a majority of their clubs as well. I learned this from a woman who was looking for women to start a company doing private parties and she gave this as her reason for doing so, and that because of this, it would become more lucrative. Now, I'm calling all my veteren dancers, like 30 and up (I'm 24). When I was like 16, I was so enamored by becoming a dancer. But it seemed that once I became legal to dance, (01), the industry was not as productive as it appeared when I was younger. Now, is this just me, or generally does anyone else see what I'm talking about? For instance, when I was 20, I worked @ a topless club where there we certain "It" girls. I thought they had it made. There was a nude club down the street they used to call "Krustys" as a joke, claiming the girls were trashy and they were better than the Krusty girls. So 3 years later when I went to Krustys, long behold half the "It" girls were there! This told me that things must have gotten BAD if they bit the bullet to show it all at Krutys, the place they made so many jokes about. I guess things are not always what they seem, huh? And I saw them STRUGGELING, girls used to doing the "hit and run" actually trying to snuggle up with these douche bags. It seems like its hard to get guys to buy "dances" when there are so many girls peddeling sex out there. Now I know thats the oldest profession in the book and will alway be here to stay, but its like every ad I see is only for escorts. Are we losing to the Outernational Invasion? Do you ladies think that private party companies will pop up more now? Are the days of the "club" disappearing?

    Feedback please!!!

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    IMHO it is certainly true that the days when clubs were 'show business', and the days when dancers could earn decent money with a zero contact performance are over.

    IMHO it is arguably true that dancers must provide some degree of contact to customers in order to earn decent money in today's clubs. The degree of contact necessary to earn decent money in today's clubs varies from city to city based on the 'club culture', customer expectations, and local LE policy. Also in many cities the degree of contact necessary to earn decent money in today's clubs may be illegal, despite the fact that LE hasn't taken action in that regard.

    IMHO the degree of contact necessary to earn decent money in today's clubs is also growing steadily. Part of this is due to an increased presence of 'foreign' dancers who are comfortable providing high degrees of contact. Part of this is due to internet club review websites which inform new customers which girls are likely to provide high mileage vs which girls are not before the new customer ever comes into the club. Another part of this is due to stupid anti-dance club ordinances which effectively create the same legal penalties and consequences for a girl busted for dancing too close to a customer as for a different girl giving the customer a HJ or BJ.

    Ultimately, if and when LE begins to seriously enforce anti-dance club laws such that customers can no longer get the high contact they are seeking thus drying up the source of money walking in the front door of the club, when at the same time that clubowners and dancers wind up having to shell out stiff fines and legal fees as a result of LE busts, the ongoing economic viability of such a club becomes questionable.

    Private party companies are certainly on the rise. The primary reasons are probably A. no-smoking laws affecting clubs, B. more frequent club busts posing a risk for club customers being subjected to adverse publicity right along with the busted dancers, and C. certain customers (or groups of customers) wanting to know exactly what they'll be dealing with i.e. picking party girls from a catalog.

    However, any dancing activities that occur outside of the club are bound to have a higher probability of security problems, a higher incidence of 'high mileage' expectations and requests on the part of the customer(s), as well as a higher incidence of 'money' problems i.e. actually getting the customer to pay up. Also the same sort of high mileage developments which were occurring inside the clubs will likely be taking place to an even greater degree outside the club, translating into extremely little actual difference between private party businesses and escort businesses.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I'm in the DC/MD area and I can tell you that they are indeed trying to shut down a lot of clubs My home club for 4 years was shut down last year and even more clubs are following. There aren't a lot of options in this area as far as clubs go. I'm making moves towards private parties as well.
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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I plan on moving to Maryland soon! What clubs are being shut down????! This is scary!

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    well, look at it this way...I'd rather have clubs closing down then new clubs opening up (as long as the dancers don't flood the other clubs)

    Maybe it'll be good...exclusive for pretty, well-spoken girls and CLEAN.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Where did you hear about the clubs in DC trying to shut down???If you mean Nexus,then it was due to the new stadium being built.I haven't heard anything,and been here a very long time.Do you have any articles?If you do,please post,we would def like to know if there's anything coming our way.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Maybe it'll be good...exclusive for pretty, well-spoken girls and CLEAN.
    and then again maybe it won't !

    Obviously, in order for clubowners to try and maintain their own income levels in an environment which is increasingly expensive for them from a legal standpoint, as well as less profitable for them in terms of few customers paying cover charges and buying drinks, a major 'device' at their disposal is extracting more money from dancers. They can do this by hiring more girls and thus collecting more stage fees (with dancer earnings potential being spread ever thinner given the same number of customers plus more dancers). They can also do this by retaining a bigger 'cut' of customers' private dance and VIP room expenditures (with dancer earnings potential being directly reduced)

    Invariably, when dancer earnings potential suffers, and the first of the month rent and utility bills roll around, some dancers will 'do what they have to do' in order to earn the money that they need. This is particularly the case when dancers figure out that if they are going to risk a bust for dancing too close to a customer in order to earn extra money, and that the legal and financial penalties resulting from being busted over a local anti-strip club ordinance's distance rule are exactly the same as the legal and financial penalties resulting from a prostitution bust for giving HJ's and BJ's, meaning that some girls will decide to go for the 'big money' at no extra risk ! Ironically, the higher earnings potential of the girls earning 'big money' from offering HJ's and BJ's actually LOWERS their odds of a conviction, as they can afford to retain their own high powered legal representation whereas lower earning dancers will typically rely on the club's attorney offering a plea bargain deal.

    All in all, this will most likely leave 'clean dancers' who must work side by side with 'dirty dancers' with an earnings potential rivalling that of a WalMart clerk ! Again this is particularly the case when the club is listed on a strip club review website, with customers posting which dancers will provide high contact levels versus which dancers won't - so that new club customers coming into the club for the first time don't have to 'waste' their money finding out for themselves !

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    why are you assuming fewer customers?

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    i work in md.. what clubs are closing? nothing new, i dont think...

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Well here in PG county they are just waiting for clubs to fuck up so they can shut them down. Our managment is so paraniod about being shut down that they told us we can't wear certain types of thongs because they might move and accidentally show a hint of vagina lip. And Club 55 and Nexus have both been trying to find new locations in DC with no luck. Nobody wants them in their neighboorhood. The clubs in PG are for the most part nasty ass extra's clubs. The stipping situation is bleak in this area...
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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I've seen this coming for a long time. This is simply history repeating itself. Americans are not keen on prostitution, and the closer exotic dancing gets to prosution (and two way contact, combined with heavy grinding, it ain't far from it) the more likely the clubs will be shut down.

    This happened to the burlesque shows of the 1920's and 1930's. There were theaters dedicated to burlesque shows on "the circuit". Slowly, cities started to crack down on those kind of places and making laws requireing that performers cover up and what was considered lewd behavior was brought into law at that time. Read about it here.

    It is funny, but the begining of the end of burlseque was in NYC. I think we've reached the limit of what the general public thinks is decent behavior and we are going to see a crack down of the kind of proportions that was the end of burlseque in the 1930's. Go-go picked up where burlesque left off (but not until the 1960's), and now we have what is modern gentlemen's clubs today.

    It is funny, but burlesque is picking up where stripping abandonded the "show biz" aspect of stripping. The burlesque ladies are still topless, but they are untouchable by the audience. No lap dances for those ladies.

    There is way too much porn and prostitution associated with stripping today. Both of those businesses are why there is so much money to be had in stripping. The incomes of modern exotic dnacers is greatly inflated because of the level of contact available (and this is in lieu of stage shows and flashy costumes, real feature performances).

    I feel like such a granny in this business. I was "trained" how to stage dance by another dancer. I was given costume guidelines, music guidelines, I was required to change my costume with every stage set, and I was required to wear nice outfits when on the floor. No naked bits showing except on stage, preferablly a gown or a fancy silk robe was to be worn while socializing with the customers.

    We did sell "private dances" but we were on a satelite stage, and it was all air. If the customer even tried to shake hands with us, we were told to back away until we were dressed. And this was only 9 years ago. Things are moving quickly into the realm of full service sex available in clubs. The guys delude themselves that strippers are not "required" to allow touching or grinding, so therefore they aren't purchasing sexual services from strippers. Hell, we're just good at our jobs, is all.

    Is this going to be the end of stripping? No way. Things are changing, though. We'll have to come up with a new cool name for our strip shows. Exotic Revue, Burlesque dancing, Go-go girls, Neo-Burlesque, Pole dancers, or ???

    Sure the dancers will be hurt by this change, but the club owners are going to be hurt worse. That's what happens when you get greedy and keep pushing the envelope.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I live in MD. I have not seen any concerted effort to shut down clubs in the news media.

    There's always someone who is intent on getting clubs shut down, but there hasn't been anything overt that I've seen lately. Just the usual BS from the NIMBY's and the holier-than-thou and asskissing politicians. They're always trying to pressure clubs by regulation and rulemaking. There have not been any raids reported in the media recently - unlike Houston and Nashville.

    Baltimore's block has been under redevelopment pressure for years and has shrunk to a fraction of its former size, but the opening of Hustler there is encouraging. The block was always a pretty sleazy place but it's managed to hang in there - even when Baltimore City built police headquarters right on the block!!

    This is why it is so important to vote and be politically active. Support organizations who support freedom of speech and sexual freedom. Oppose laws criminalilzing sexual behavior between consenting adults and regulating strip clubs, nudity, etc etc. The separation of church and state is an extremely important fundamental of our democracy, as is our system of checks and balances that protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

    These ongoing battles are one reason that I'm a member of the ACLU.
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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    why are you assuming fewer customers?
    As has typically been the case when club busts have been publicized in local media, one of the first reactions is that former club customers whose local business / social reputations could potentially be harmed should they be included in future local media coverage of a subsequent bust choose to stay away from the club until the situation 'dies down'. Ironically, these sort of local businessmen / would-be philandering husbands are also the type of guys most likely to spend a fair amount of money without major 'contact' expectations !

    However, local media coverage of a club bust does tend to draw in a few additional customers to offset the loss of businessman customers. But these additional customers are of a different type ... i.e. those guys who are looking for exactly what the club bust charges alleged was available in the club, illegally high levels of 'contact'.

    Thus, between fewer businessman customers and more perv customers, 'clean' dancers are typically hit with a double whammy in terms of earnings potential after a publicized club bust.


    I've seen this coming for a long time. This is simply history repeating itself. Americans are not keen on prostitution, and the closer exotic dancing gets to prosution (and two way contact, combined with heavy grinding, it ain't far from it) the more likely the clubs will be shut down.
    To be more specific, Americans are not keen on the fact that the existance of prostitution in their neighborhood / city is being publicized !!! Americans in general and New Yorkers in particular will put up with a lot of things as long as their existance remains low profile. However, when the existance of something 'undesireable' winds up getting major publicity on a regular basis, those Americans / New Yorkers are forced into a dilemma. Allowing that 'undesireable' activity to continue as before despite the publicity amounts to those Americans / New Yorkers being vulnerable to accusations of 'tacit approval'. Calling for busts to shut down that 'undesireable' activity proves those Americans / New Yorkers don't officially approve. This is what happened to Minsky's way back when, and it appears to be what's happening to Scores right now !

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Yes it's true the business is just not as good as it used to be, not by far. But there is still money to be made if you can hack it and hustle.


    I have often found that many times girls talk shit about a certain club just because they like to make themselves feel better, kinda like civilian women like to talk shit about sluts, strippers, etc. It's just a status play. Very often the shit that is spread through the rumor mill is way off base. Krusty's may not be as bad as you think.

    But it's also true that when business gets tough, many girls will lower their standards in order to keep making money. Maybe Krusty's doesn't look as bad as they once thought (money talks), OR maybe it's REALLY not as bad as they once thought. Could be either or both.

    If you want to know for sure, just go check it out for yourself.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    I've seen this coming for a long time. This is simply history repeating itself. Americans are not keen on prostitution, and the closer exotic dancing gets to prosution (and two way contact, combined with heavy grinding, it ain't far from it) the more likely the clubs will be shut down.

    This happened to the burlesque shows of the 1920's and 1930's. There were theaters dedicated to burlesque shows on "the circuit". Slowly, cities started to crack down on those kind of places and making laws requireing that performers cover up and what was considered lewd behavior was brought into law at that time. Read about it here.

    It is funny, but the begining of the end of burlseque was in NYC. I think we've reached the limit of what the general public thinks is decent behavior and we are going to see a crack down of the kind of proportions that was the end of burlseque in the 1930's. Go-go picked up where burlesque left off (but not until the 1960's), and now we have what is modern gentlemen's clubs today.

    It is funny, but burlesque is picking up where stripping abandonded the "show biz" aspect of stripping. The burlesque ladies are still topless, but they are untouchable by the audience. No lap dances for those ladies.

    There is way too much porn and prostitution associated with stripping today. Both of those businesses are why there is so much money to be had in stripping. The incomes of modern exotic dnacers is greatly inflated because of the level of contact available (and this is in lieu of stage shows and flashy costumes, real feature performances).

    I feel like such a granny in this business. I was "trained" how to stage dance by another dancer. I was given costume guidelines, music guidelines, I was required to change my costume with every stage set, and I was required to wear nice outfits when on the floor. No naked bits showing except on stage, preferablly a gown or a fancy silk robe was to be worn while socializing with the customers.

    We did sell "private dances" but we were on a satelite stage, and it was all air. If the customer even tried to shake hands with us, we were told to back away until we were dressed. And this was only 9 years ago. Things are moving quickly into the realm of full service sex available in clubs. The guys delude themselves that strippers are not "required" to allow touching or grinding, so therefore they aren't purchasing sexual services from strippers. Hell, we're just good at our jobs, is all.

    Is this going to be the end of stripping? No way. Things are changing, though. We'll have to come up with a new cool name for our strip shows. Exotic Revue, Burlesque dancing, Go-go girls, Neo-Burlesque, Pole dancers, or ???

    Sure the dancers will be hurt by this change, but the club owners are going to be hurt worse. That's what happens when you get greedy and keep pushing the envelope.
    You're so very right,Paris!When I started in '95 the rules were strictly enforced,and now everything is very very different.I feel lucky here in DC though,since maybe it's a little easier for us here,where we still do stage only shows,no floorwork or any kind of private dancing or rooms.But we are still suffering and struggling,especially on the weekends,where we have more than half women customers,most of whom point fingers at us and laugh,and the rest young drunk kids with no money.Sometimes we feel like we work in a circus...
    I still do hope that things will get better.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I don't know, but it seems to me that fewer clubs might just be a GOOD thing, once the dust settles. Fewer places in which to spread customer dollars means more average dollars spent per club...

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    ^^^ yes that is good news for top-notch dancers who would still be hired in say the three remaining 'upscale' clubs. However, it is not so good for the average dancers who are currently working at those three clubs plus the other five clubs that would be permanently closed down. I have seen this happen in a couple of cities that went crazy with zoning. The end result was that all of the top-notch dancers from the closed-down clubs wound up being hired at the remaining clubs, as soon as the remaining clubs could make excuses to get rid of average dancers already working there to create vacancies.

    One of the major techniques used by the clubs that were able to stay in business was the institution of much higher stage fees than the dancers working at these clubs were used to. Forgive the Scores scale reference, but for girls who were 7's and 8's that were already working at these clubs, every 'new dancer' from the closed-down clubs that was hired by these clubs because they were a 9 or a 10 cut into the earnings of the 7's and 8's (like from a previous average of $300 to under $200, while the new girls were able to earn $400+). The club instituting a $75 stage fee then caused the net earnings for the remaining dancers who were 7's and 8's to drop from the previous $300 to $125 ... at which point many simply quit.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Well, this deffinitly is not the first thread about the declining business. There are good places to work where money is steady and has been steady for several years. There are other clubs where competitive factors amongst many other changes the market drastically, New York, for example. Some of our clubs are here to stay, I do not see them going anywhere. Other clubs the sity could care less about and are going to get rid of them. It just depends on your location.
    The club I have worked at for 5 years, Cheyenne club in Oklahoma, has stayed put for over 15 years. As far as I know, we have NEVER been busted. The owner treats the girls good, including no stage fees, and tip what you want to the bouncers and bar tenders. On Christmas, we have a party, the owner buys us ALL presents. There are 50+ girls at the club. He actually cares about the club and does not get greedy with it. The only thing bad about our club really is political bs, liek the crappy manager, who I really dont think will last long.
    Us girls are not getting rich, but we make pretty good money, exspecially for the area, very low cost of living, and get treated right by the owner. Anyone that is having problems with there club is welcome here. Just please do not bring your hj/bj's with you. We dont want them. lol.
    Look the business is going down hill, but I think a good portion of that is due to political factors such as the war in Iraq, declining economy and other things. Think about how many companies have moved operations over sees. People are hurting for money. We are in an entertainment industry and we are the first expenditure to go out the door when the wallet gets tight. I personally keep track of every dollar I make on a clander, my money has declined very littel over the past few years, although I do feel like I make less. But when I add up the numbers, they only vary a grand or two from the previous 4 years.
    For example, in 2004 I made good money, but worked a lot out of town. In 2005 I made several, almost 9 grand less, but was no longer working at that out of town club. This year, I gripped all year about not making as much money. But in January when I added it up, I only made about a 2 grand less than in 2005. So my money really has not been going down. I think we all just feel like it is. But I sitll make the same amount I always did.
    I am getting out of the business because I do seen a decline in the industry even though I do not think it is affecting my earnings .. YET. I will leave my club in 2 weeks, hopefully never to return.
    For all of the girls, I reccomend you do something , save, go to school, something ... so that you have it to fall back on. You can not do this forever, even if the market gets really good really quick.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    An older friend of mine (who's 42) has been going to Houston stripclubs for years. He said that back in the 80's girls actually had dance routines, and they were alot stricter when they hired girls back then because there weren't so many clubs. I just see it all going down hill, since more & more illegal spas are opening up everywhere. I mean there were probably some seedy stripclubs back in the day too, but there wasn't even a fourth of seedy clubs as nice ones. What's next sex slaves houses getting busted again?? I don't know if anyone else heard about that in Houston, you should look it up.

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    I am not as familiar with the US scene as you but I think that the " house fee" thing in the US and UK has made a strip club seem like a "can't lose" proposition to nightclub owners who really don't know how to operate a decent strip club. They tend to pack the place with girls, as a result standards are not as consistently high as before, and stage shows with feature dancers etc tend to get dropped as non money making. With dozens of girls chasing reduced numbers of customers caused by ever more clubs opening it's inevitable that the pressure for extras increases.

    In the UK contact is still officially illegal and in most clubs pretty limited but as a customer I find sitting in a dark room, with overpriced beer, no stage show, and being constantly hassled by squads of often not that attractive girls desperate to get their house fee back a pretty resistable experience. I expect that a lot of the clubs opened in the UK over the past 3 or 4 years will close and in many ways that would be a good thing.

    My favourite place in London the White Horse, Shoreditch has no private dancing, everybody has to contribute £1 for each stage show which the girls take seriously, there is no entry charge, beer is well kept and at normal pub prices, and as the girls are only on stage every 40 mins or so they have time to chat without hustling for dances. I can see a decent market for places like this but instead we have ever more hustle pits.

    Tyke

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    Default Re: Strip Club Shut Downs - Whats going on here?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes that is good news for top-notch dancers who would still be hired in say the three remaining 'upscale' clubs. However, it is not so good for the average dancers who are currently working at those three clubs plus the other five clubs that would be permanently closed down.
    Frankly, I think that's a good thing too. It's just too damned easy for any twat to be a stripper these days. A bit of exclusivity would do this industry good. And if that meant I too would no longer be able to work in remaining clubs, then so be it. But I betcha I'll be able to find a place to work for at least a few more years

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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